mswd...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 14. November 2023 um 02:40:55 UTC+1:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 5:25:39 PM UTC-6, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 22:29:47 UTC, Herman wrote:
> >
> > > It's extremely hateful to gratuitously call people antisemite. It has become standard practice here, thanks to this idiot Koren. Use of the slur also attracts bad people who multiply the use of this kind of language, etc ad inf.
> > Exactly. You said it.
> No, there's more to consider. What are you going to do when someone calls you an antisemite? Marc S called me one (at some point when I was actually talking directly to him), and I had two reactions:
> - Laughter, because I like the fact that I have Jewish ancestor, have worked a large part of my career in mostly-Jewish businesses, and have a Jewish best friend

First of Mister, I never called you an antisemite. There seems to be a curse among the people of this ng that makes them disconnect from and then alter the reality. We had a discussion about Trump, in which I called you out on your fascist tendencies. Calling you a fascist does not imply that you are an antisemite. Furthermore how about you reflect on your behaviour in said discussion?

So because you have a Jewish ancestor you can't be a self-hating Jew? For me it's quite obvious that you, cheregi and even Dan to some degree show signs of a self-hating Jew.

Look at Norman Finkelstein. Is he not a self-hating Jew? He even had relatives who died in Auschwitz; yet Mr Finkelstein is a sick antisemite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

You sound like those leftist-antisemites who demonize Israel and then say "I have a Jewish friend and he says the same and therefore I am right".

Similar to how muslims use Neturei Karta to further their Agenda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

Just because you have a Jewish ancestor or because your best friend is Jewish does not mean that you can't have a antisemitic mentality btw. Frank already explained this in the past.

> - Curiosity, because patterns of thought are open to many influences, and I take it as possible that I might have opinions or ideas that had a connection to anti-semitism. Nobody is innocent! It's worth considering.

Thank you.

> Did I get angry, devote myself to correcting the person who wronged me and start seeking some sort of justice that could only be achieved by Marc leaving the group? No. That's a waste of my life. All I can do is try to be as good a person as I can, consider the possibility of my own error, and trust that assholes will be found out quite without my assistance.

Well you did get a little agitated and becamse unreasonable and irrational. You gave no arguments in the discussion we had about Abortion, but simply told used arguments ad hominem.

>
> So my message to Herman remains the same: stop wasting your precious energies. Focus on what you love and ignore what you hate.

My message to you: Stop wasting your time telling Herman the same every few months. He obviously won't change. Just make fun of him.

"Ignore" what one hates... what a life lesson... I don't think it's a good lesson, and I do not even think that you practice it, as you obviously couldn't ignore Trump - lol.

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 14. November 2023 um 09:11:50 UTC+1:
> mswd...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 14. November 2023 um 02:40:55 UTC+1:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 5:25:39 PM UTC-6, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 22:29:47 UTC, Herman wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's extremely hateful to gratuitously call people antisemite. It has become standard practice here, thanks to this idiot Koren. Use of the slur also attracts bad people who multiply the use of this kind of language, etc ad inf.
> > > Exactly. You said it.
> > No, there's more to consider. What are you going to do when someone calls you an antisemite? Marc S called me one (at some point when I was actually talking directly to him), and I had two reactions:
> > - Laughter, because I like the fact that I have Jewish ancestor, have worked a large part of my career in mostly-Jewish businesses, and have a Jewish best friend
> First of Mister, I never called you an antisemite. There seems to be a curse among the people of this ng that makes them disconnect from and then alter the reality. We had a discussion about Trump, in which I called you out on your fascist tendencies. Calling you a fascist does not imply that you are an antisemite. Furthermore how about you reflect on your behaviour in said discussion?
>
> So because you have a Jewish ancestor you can't be a self-hating Jew? For me it's quite obvious that you, cheregi and even Dan to some degree show signs of a self-hating Jew.
>
> Look at Norman Finkelstein. Is he not a self-hating Jew? He even had relatives who died in Auschwitz; yet Mr Finkelstein is a sick antisemite.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
>
> You sound like those leftist-antisemites who demonize Israel and then say "I have a Jewish friend and he says the same and therefore I am right".
>
> Similar to how muslims use Neturei Karta to further their Agenda.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta
>
> Just because you have a Jewish ancestor or because your best friend is Jewish does not mean that you can't have a antisemitic mentality btw. Frank already explained this in the past.
> > - Curiosity, because patterns of thought are open to many influences, and I take it as possible that I might have opinions or ideas that had a connection to anti-semitism. Nobody is innocent! It's worth considering.
> Thank you.
> > Did I get angry, devote myself to correcting the person who wronged me and start seeking some sort of justice that could only be achieved by Marc leaving the group? No. That's a waste of my life. All I can do is try to be as good a person as I can, consider the possibility of my own error, and trust that assholes will be found out quite without my assistance.
> Well you did get a little agitated and becamse unreasonable and irrational. You gave no arguments in the discussion we had about Abortion, but simply told used arguments ad hominem.
> >
> > So my message to Herman remains the same: stop wasting your precious energies. Focus on what you love and ignore what you hate.
> My message to you: Stop wasting your time telling Herman the same every few months. He obviously won't change. Just make fun of him.
>
> "Ignore" what one hates... what a life lesson... I don't think it's a good lesson, and I do not even think that you practice it, as you obviously couldn't ignore Trump - lol.

I think it's also impossible to ignore what one hates. Look at the fakestinians... and look at Herman. Now does Herman have a good reason to hate Dan? No... How about the fakestinians wrt Jews? No...

On 13 Nov 2023 Frank Berger wrote:

> Zebra stripes remind me of the uniforms that the Nazis forced
> concentration camps inmates to wear. I think the only explanation for
> zebra's choosing stripes (instead of checks?) is that they must be
> antisemitic.

Were the striped uniforms perhaps inspired by the Southern USA's
(segregational) punitive systems?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_gang#United_States

https://www.ranker.com/list/chain-gang-facts/justin-andress

Poor zebras, perhaps they will now be cancelled.

Zebras (music):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Dcq-uC8oI

Chris

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 2:11:50 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:

> First of Mister, I never called you an antisemite.

You did, sillypants.

>There seems to be a curse among the people of this ng that makes them disconnect from and then alter the reality. We had a discussion about Trump, in which I called you out on your fascist tendencies. Calling you a fascist does not imply that you are an antisemite.

Oh, I didn't remember that. That's funny. A fascist! You are a stone cold crackhead, and I don't care what you think Marc, so swing away. I'm sure you will have three replies to anything interesting I type, but I don't give a flip. I'm only replying here so I can tell you that you I'm well aware that my time is better spent cleaning my toilet, doing the laundry, clipping grocery coupons, virtually anything but conversing with you. You disgust me. Whatever you may be partially correct about you annihilate with an obnoxiousness that deserves to be smothered.

> Furthermore how about you reflect on your behaviour in said discussion?

For you? Nah.

> So because you have a Jewish ancestor you can't be a self-hating Jew? For me it's quite obvious that you, cheregi and even Dan to some degree show signs of a self-hating Jew.

What is obvious to you is a bunch of garbage. Good luck. My God, you just can't stop running at the mouth, can you?

> "Ignore" what one hates... what a life lesson... I don't think it's a good lesson, and I do not even think that you practice it, as you obviously couldn't ignore Trump - lol.

There's a point there. Even idiots are sometimes partially right. I suppose I can clarify that if you can ignore something you hate without consequence then you should. Trump is not without consequence, and since I actually live here, I'd be a fool to ignore him.

On 11/13/2023 5:29 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:09:39 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 11/13/2023 8:23 AM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 5:57:19 AM UTC-6, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>> On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 08:09:56 UTC, Marc S wrote:
>>>>> True. It is also pretty obvious that the majority of RMCR people don't care about what Herman has to say... as evidenced by the lack of responses in this topic.
>>>> Not at all. Herman is a good guy and writes a lot of interesting things about music.
>>>>
>>>> He's been mercilessly hounded by DK for no reason,
>>>
>>> Whatever Dan did to Herman, you have to be willfully blind to not recognize that Herman has been posting a non-stop campaign of attack posts aimed at Dan for months now. This thread being another example ("Clearly labelled off-topic posts are unforgivable, but my posts attacking the off-topic poster are valuable."). And you have to be intellectually deficient to miss the fact that attacking Dan is a waste of energy. Dan doesn't care what anyone thinks of him, and is delighted to judge an attacker when given this opportunity.
>>>
>>> Am I forgiving Dan? No. But on the question of who is wasting their energy the most and adding pollution to the group at this moment, the answer is clear.
>>>
>>> Everyone who thinks the group needs more music discussions should take their own medicine.
>>>
>> The whole thing between Dan and Herman began when Dan suggested Herman was, or might be, an anti-semite, because he never recommended Jewish violinists. First, is it true that Herman has never recommended Jewish violinists? If not Dan's accusation is based on a false premise and can be dismissed. If true, however, one can wonder why that is the case. I suppose one can come up with explanations other that antisemitism, but it is difficult. Do all Jewish violinists play a certain style that Herman dislikes? I have no idea what would motivate Herman to avoid touting Jewish violinists. Personally, I would lean towards thinking it was based on antisemitism, but not with any certainty.
>>
>> Again, if the facts are true, Dan's accusation or suggestion (I don't remember which is was) is not baseless. Herman appears to be deeply, deeply offended by the suggestion of antisemitism.
>>
>> However, in his frequent tirades against Dan, he has misrepresented, over and over, what Dan said. He claims the accusation of antisemitism was based on his disliking a particular violinist (I don't remember who). I've pointed this out to Herman several times, but he doesn't reply or change his story justifying his hatred of Dan.
>
> Frank you are a complete and total idiot and also an incredible bore. As you mention yourself, you don't remember ANYTHING of this situation, and yet you suggest, full of your usual veiled malice, my alleged refusal to recommend Jewish violinists or instrumentalists has to be because I am an antisemite. You say you don't remember what happened, and yet you feel at liberty to accuse me of misrepresentating the matter. You're a pompous bore and a doddering idiot.
> I have explained over and over that as a rule I DON"T RECOMMEND PERFORMERS irrespective of the ethnicity - which I am not obsessed by the way you and your hero Koren are. it's just that I don't recommend performers generally, because I don't believe in it. I may like a particular performance in 2016 and may not like the same performance in 2020, so why should I? I also don't believe in this whole show of acting like a connoisseur, the way some people do. People who do this usually have no idea what they're talking about.
> The reason why I was called an antisemite was when this deaf and dumb idiot Koren said that Isabelle Faust could not play the violin, her intonation was "wobbly" and her bowing was scratchy. Because both assertions were not true (I happen to play the violin), and I replied that Faust could play the violin very well, she was one of the top violinists of her generation. I did not say one has to like her. Why would I? I don't do recommendations. That's when Koren said I was an antisemite, because I seemed to like a German, non-Jewish violinist. I had not said I liked her; I had said her technique was impeccable and she was very well-regarded. It should perhaps also be noted that Koren has not a single clue about violin / viola / cello playing. His recommendations are risible. He doesn't know what he's talking about. There is also a very clear pattern Koren hates non-Jewish German performers even if they were born many decades after 1945, just because he's a racist. So Isabelle Faust is dubbed Pantzerfaust, you know, like the weapon used by the Nazis. That's supposed to be funny. Koren is a racist, which is why he routinely accuses other people of antisemitism. And inevitiably a doddering old fool like Berger agrees, insofar he remembers anything.
> In conclusion, I remember saying that I was in awe of the ca 1960 Juilliard and expecially of Raphael Hillyer, the alto player. And of course that again was evidence of my antisemitism, that I would like an alto player that much.
> It's extremely hateful to gratuitously call people antisemite. It has become standard practice here, thanks to this idiot Koren. Use of the slur also attracts bad people who multiply the use of this kind of language, etc ad inf.
>
>
You've just misrepresented what Dan said again. By the way, I don't happen to think you are an antisemite. I don't believe I ever said you were.

One of the reasons why I advised against relentlessly posting about Israel, anti-semitism, and all these related issues (like apocalyptic woke) is now coming into fruition.

Via search engines these topics will attract one issue posters who aren't even aware what RMCR is about. They just want to post about these political issues and advocate their views.

This is no-win situation. For every person who'd like to talk about classical music, there are a thousand who want to shout about political stuff. In fact RMCR's resident trolls are evidence of this, since their political posts vastly outnumber what (if anything) they want to say about classical music.

On 11/16/2023 3:49 AM, Herman wrote:
> One of the reasons why I advised against relentlessly posting about Israel, anti-semitism, and all these related issues (like apocalyptic woke) is now coming into fruition.
>
> Via search engines these topics will attract one issue posters who aren't even aware what RMCR is about. They just want to post about these political issues and advocate their views.
>
> This is no-win situation. For every person who'd like to talk about classical music, there are a thousand who want to shout about political stuff. In fact RMCR's resident trolls are evidence of this, since their political posts vastly outnumber what (if anything) they want to say about classical music.

Instead of this useless drivel, you could have posted something about music.

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 2:42:09 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/16/2023 3:49 AM, Herman wrote:
> > One of the reasons why I advised against relentlessly
> > posting about Israel, anti-semitism, and all these related
> > issues (like apocalyptic woke) is now coming into fruition.
> >
> > Via search engines these topics will attract one issue posters
> > who aren't even aware what RMCR is about. They just want to
> > post about these political issues and advocate their views.
> >
> > This is no-win situation. For every person who'd like to talk about
> > classical music, there are a thousand who want to shout about
> > political stuff. In fact RMCR's resident trolls are evidence of this,
> > since their political posts vastly outnumber what (if anything) they
> > want to say about classical music.
>
> Instead of this useless drivel, you could have posted something
> about music.

Herman knows nothing about music. He is just another fake fiddler.

Cheers

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 1:54:59 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> Never mind the majority of RMCR people hate it and would prefer to discuss music and recordings.
> Just be your solipsistic antisocial self.

As I understand it, there is a problem with antisemitism in the UK. Apparently, there's not enough of it. There's a simple answer to this one: organise a lecture tour by David Hurwitz. After the first lecture, London will make the Nuremburg Rally look like a liberal synagogue in Brooklyn.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Saturday, 18 November 2023 at 04:57:03 UTC, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 1:54:59 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> > Never mind the majority of RMCR people hate it and would prefer to discuss music and recordings.
> > Just be your solipsistic antisocial self.

Yes, but there actually is very little discussion of music and recordings. Much, much less than there used to be.

This group has put off so many contributors with constant off topic and aggressive posts. Slim pickins these days. Nobody wants to make an effort anymore.