Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived? And if this would have happened, what would the effects have been on the spread of radical Islam, especially Wahhabism, worldwide over the last century? Just how much more progressive would the global Muslim community have been right now in such a scenario?

WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived?

Why would they have bothered?

Aside from the oil.

> And if this would have happened, what would the effects have been on the spread of radical Islam, especially Wahhabism, worldwide over the last century?

Considering how badly the Ottoman's had beaten the Saudi tribe
when it had conducted major raids in the 19th C ....

> Just how much more progressive would the global Muslim community have been right now in such a scenario?

Define "progressive"?
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

On Saturday, May 29, 2021 at 2:49:36 PM UTC-4, WolfBear wrote:
> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived? And if this would have happened, what would the effects have been on the spread of radical Islam, especially Wahhabism, worldwide over the last century? Just how much more progressive would the global Muslim community have been right now in such a scenario?

The interior of the Arabian Peninsula was and is largely empty. There's nothing there worth conquering. The southern third of the area is nicknamed "The Empty Quarter".

Dean

On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 15:37:47 UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
> >Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived?
> Why would they have bothered?
>
> Aside from the oil.
>
A desire of the part of the Caliph to have direct control over Mecca and Medina?

"dama...@gmail.com" <damarkley@gmail.com> on Mon, 7 Jun 2021 10:16:50
-0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On Saturday, May 29, 2021 at 2:49:36 PM UTC-4, WolfBear wrote:
>> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived? And if this would have happened, what would the effects have been on the spread of radical Islam, especially Wahhabism, worldwide over the last century? Just how much more progressive would the global Muslim community have been right now in such a scenario?
>
>The interior of the Arabian Peninsula was and is largely empty. There's nothing there worth conquering. The southern third of the area is nicknamed "The Empty Quarter".

The Ottomans held that part of Arabia which was worth holding: the
coast, any major oasis, and the Holy Cities. The rest wasn't worth
the expense.

I'm not sure but I think the House of Saud "rules" the Arabian
interior in a similar manner. How far one gets from the cities will
have a big impact on the "long arm of the King."
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

Graham Truesdale <graham.truesdale@gmail.com> on Mon, 7 Jun 2021
11:03:56 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 15:37:47 UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
>> typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>> >Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived?
>> Why would they have bothered?
>>
>> Aside from the oil.
>>
>A desire of the part of the Caliph to have direct control over Mecca and Medina?

If memory serves, they already did. Ayup. Per Wiki - they'd
been in control since the early 1500s.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

On Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 02:21:48 UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Graham Truesdale <graham.t...ATgmail.com> on Mon, 7 Jun 2021
> 11:03:56 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
> >On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 15:37:47 UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >> WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> >> typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
> >> >Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman Empire survived?
> >> Why would they have bothered?
> >>
> >> Aside from the oil.
> >>
> >A desire of the part of the Caliph to have direct control over Mecca and Medina?
> If memory serves, they already did. Ayup. Per Wiki - they'd
> been in control since the early 1500s.
>
NB that I said 'direct control'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharifate_of_Mecca and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Arabia#Dissolution_of_the_Ottoman_Empire "At the beginning of the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire continued to control or have a suzerainty (albeit nominal) over most of the peninsula. Subject to this suzerainty, Arabia was ruled by a patchwork of tribal rulers,[12][13] with the Sharif of Mecca having pre-eminence and ruling the Hejaz." I can imagine the Sultan/Caliph wanting to get rid of this overmighty vassal. NB that I realise that Mecca and Medina were not within https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Nejd or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Jabal_Shammar

On 6/7/21 9:37 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> WolfBear<m4josh@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the
>> Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman
>> Empire survived?

> Why would they have bothered?

To fill in a blank patch on the map.

There had been a number of areas which were more or less
terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
of them have now been filled in: Tibet, for instance.
Inner Arabia would have been a source of continuing
annoyance to the Empire.

Occupying it would have been fairly trivial.

--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:21:12 PM UTC-7, Rich Rostrom wrote:
> On 6/7/21 9:37 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> > WolfBear<m4j...@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> > typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
> >> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the
> >> Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman
> >> Empire survived?
>
> > Why would they have bothered?
> To fill in a blank patch on the map.
>
> There had been a number of areas which were more or less
> terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
> of them have now been filled in: Tibet, for instance.
> Inner Arabia would have been a source of continuing
> annoyance to the Empire.
>
> Occupying it would have been fairly trivial.
>
> --
> Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
> --- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

Would the House of Saud have to be fully crushed beforehand?

On Saturday, 12 June 2021 at 02:21:12 UTC+1, Rich Rostrom wrote:
> On 6/7/21 9:37 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> > WolfBear<m4j...@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> > typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
> >> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the
> >> Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman
> >> Empire survived?
>
> > Why would they have bothered?
> To fill in a blank patch on the map.
>
> There had been a number of areas which were more or less
> terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
> of them have now been filled in
>
With the possible exception of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land

Rich Rostrom <rrostrom@comcast.net> on Fri, 11 Jun 2021 20:21:08 -0500
typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On 6/7/21 9:37 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> WolfBear<m4josh@gmail.com> on Sat, 29 May 2021 11:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
>> typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>> Just how likely were the Ottomans to conquer the interior of the
>>> Arabian Peninsula had World War I never occurred and the Ottoman
>>> Empire survived?
>
>> Why would they have bothered?
>
>To fill in a blank patch on the map.
>
>There had been a number of areas which were more or less
>terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
>of them have now been filled in: Tibet, for instance.
>Inner Arabia would have been a source of continuing
>annoyance to the Empire.
>
>Occupying it would have been fairly trivial.

Declaration issued by the Ottoman Foreign ministry that the entire
Arabia Peninsula was now under Ottoman control would do the trick.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

On 6/12/21 11:34 AM, Graham Truesdale wrote:
> On Saturday, 12 June 2021 at 02:21:12 UTC+1, Rich Rostrom wrote:
>>
>> There had been a number of areas which were more or less
>> terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
>> of them have now been filled in
>>
> With the possible exception of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land
>

Antarctica remains terra deserta by international agreement.

--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

On Monday, 14 June 2021 at 21:49:55 UTC+1, Rich Rostrom wrote:
> On 6/12/21 11:34 AM, Graham Truesdale wrote:
> > On Saturday, 12 June 2021 at 02:21:12 UTC+1, Rich Rostrom wrote:
> >>
> >> There had been a number of areas which were more or less
> >> terra deserta, not controlled by any sovereign state. All
> >> of them have now been filled in
> >>
> > With the possible exception of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land
> >
> Antarctica remains terra deserta by international agreement.
>
To be more precise - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_Antarctica#Antarctic_Treaty
"The Antarctic Treaty states that contracting to the treaty:

is not a renunciation of any previous territorial claim
does not affect the basis of claims made as a result of activities of the signatory nation within Antarctica
does not affect the rights of a State under customary international law to recognise (or refuse to recognise) any other territorial claim
What the treaty does affect is new claims:

No activities occurring after 1961 can be the basis of a territorial claim.
No new claim can be made.
No claim can be enlarged."