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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?

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* Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?Kerrison
`* Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?Kerrison
 `- Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?vhorowitz

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Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?

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Subject: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?
From: kerrison...@yahoo.co.uk (Kerrison)
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 by: Kerrison - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:02 UTC

Extracted from the "Enigma Variations," usually for solemn and state occasions, or for funerals and even concert encores, "Nimrod" is one of the most performed of Elgar's shorter pieces of music.

YouTube has loads of examples from all over the world but although I've not checked them all, I'll hazard a guess that the slowest and fastest performances come from two conductors not born in England.

Firstly, Leonard Bernstein's 1982 "Nimrod" with the BBC Symphony has gained notoriety over the years for lasting about 6 minutes, with comments under the video ranging from "ridiculous" to "wonderful" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8NOVGHJmRs

Constantin Silvestri on the other hand, in a 1967 broadcast with the Bournemouth Symphony, gets through it in half that time with a reading which is decidedly speedy for a variation marked "Adagio" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwbcCg80u0

Any other "Nimrods" either faster or slower than these two?

Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:02:34 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?
From: kerrison...@yahoo.co.uk (Kerrison)
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 by: Kerrison - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:02 UTC

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 5:32:10 PM UTC, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 4:27:40 AM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 3:02:22 AM UTC+11, Kerrison wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Any other "Nimrods" either faster or slower than these two?
> > Sir Edward got through Nimrod in about 2' 82" with the Royal Albert Hall Orchestra in 1926:
> >
> > < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaPtKoL-FsM >
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Senior moment: that should of course read 2' 42"

As Jerrold Northrop Moore points out in his "Elgar on Record," the 'Enigma Variations' were to be recorded in the new electrical system and were in fact the composer's first records to be made that way. In an interview, Sir Adrian Boult once remarked that it was always in the back of the conductor's mind when making early 78s that they had to make sure the music didn't over-run the required maximum of 4-and-a-half minutes. As it happened, that particular Elgar side contained Variations VIII ("W.N.") and IX ("Nimrod") and he just managed to get to the end of "Nimrod" as the 78rpm disc hit the 4-and-a-half minute mark. In fact, you can hear him speeding the music up towards the end so as to make sure he didn't run out of groove room. Boult on the other hand, in his 1970 LSO recording, didn't have to worry about short side lengths in the days of LPs and his timing of 3'50" for "Nimrod" will probably strike many listeners as just about ideal.

Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?

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Subject: Re: Elgar's "Nimrod" - the fastest and the slowest?
From: vladhoro...@hotmail.com (vhorowitz)
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 by: vhorowitz - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:12 UTC

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 11:25:59 PM UTC-5, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 6:02:37 AM UTC+11, Kerrison wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 5:32:10 PM UTC, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 4:27:40 AM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 3:02:22 AM UTC+11, Kerrison wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any other "Nimrods" either faster or slower than these two?
> > > > Sir Edward got through Nimrod in about 2' 82" with the Royal Albert Hall Orchestra in 1926:
> > > >
> > > > < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaPtKoL-FsM >
> > > >
> > > > Andrew Clarke
> > > > Canberra
> > > Senior moment: that should of course read 2' 42"
> > As Jerrold Northrop Moore points out in his "Elgar on Record," the 'Enigma Variations' were to be recorded in the new electrical system and were in fact the composer's first records to be made that way. In an interview, Sir Adrian Boult once remarked that it was always in the back of the conductor's mind when making early 78s that they had to make sure the music didn't over-run the required maximum of 4-and-a-half minutes. As it happened, that particular Elgar side contained Variations VIII ("W.N.") and IX ("Nimrod") and he just managed to get to the end of "Nimrod" as the 78rpm disc hit the 4-and-a-half minute mark. In fact, you can hear him speeding the music up towards the end so as to make sure he didn't run out of groove room. Boult on the other hand, in his 1970 LSO recording, didn't have to worry about short side lengths in the days of LPs and his timing of 3'50" for "Nimrod" will probably strike many listeners as just about ideal.
> Yes, I heard this argument before, and it is possibly correct. But why would Sir Edward agree to speeding up the heart of his Variations if he had always intended it to be played much slower. What I do disagree with is the later drawing out of Nimrod to lengths explicable more by nostalgia or sentimentality than anything else. That being said, I find the BBCSO's personal animous towards Leonard Bernstein contemptible.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Look at the score……it’s indicated at Quarter equals 52 beats per minute. That’s pretty swift. Of course, it’s not carved in stone, but when people say Elgar, Silvestri or Boult are “too fast for Adagio”, and don’t know what’s in the score, they are indulging in lazy speculation. Bernstein is nearly HALF that tempo (and many others are nearly as slow), so that IS too slow!

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