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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

SubjectAuthor
* Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
`* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesRichard Kaplan
 `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
  +- Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
  `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
   `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
    `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
     `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
      `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
       `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
        +- Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
        `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
         +* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
         |`- Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
         `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren
          +- Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesMELMOTH
          `* Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesOwen Hartnett
           `- Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suitesDan Koren

1
Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 26 Dec 2023 01:10 UTC

TIA!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: richard....@gmail.com (Richard Kaplan)
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 by: Richard Kaplan - Tue, 26 Dec 2023 06:39 UTC

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> TIA!
Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist, and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
References: <2343f2d6-3f29-4d3e-8c2e-d2b5d602a186n@googlegroups.com> <90eddbc9-aa7f-4126-8615-9fa34ae97179n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Wed, 27 Dec 2023 17:49 UTC

On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
<richard.a.kaplan.78@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
>> TIA!
> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist, and Ashkenazy
> recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.

Seconded. The playing sparkles!

-Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 07:41 UTC

On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >> TIA!
> > Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> > and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>
> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>
> -Owen

How about La Nartha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s

Cheers!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 07:56 UTC

On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >> TIA!
> > Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> > and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>
> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>
> -Owen

How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s

Cheers!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

<gv-cnRvAafkDMBD4nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@supernews.com>

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 by: Owen Hartnett - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 17:17 UTC

On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> TIA!
>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>>
>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>>
>> -Owen
>
> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
>
> Cheers!

Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer A&P's less
rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!

-Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:55 UTC

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> >> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>> TIA!
> >>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> >>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> >>
> >> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> >
> > How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
>
> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!

Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
recording of the suites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc

What sez you?

Cheers

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 22:49 UTC

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > >> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> > >> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >>>> TIA!
> > >>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> > >>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> > >>
> > >> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> > >
> > > How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
> >
> > Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> > A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
>
> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
> recording of the suites:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc

Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo

Cheers!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 05:44 UTC

On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
>>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>> TIA!
>>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
>>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>>>>
>>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
>>>
>>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
>>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
>>
>> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
>> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
>> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
>> recording of the suites:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
>
> Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
>
>
None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.

The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much as A&F. It's
certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are so rich that they don't
need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes you just need to play it straight and in
time and let the music sing for itself.

And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends on what you
want to hear from a performance, but in my case, sparkling is better than
overpowering.

-Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 06:06 UTC

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail..com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> >>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>>>> TIA!
> >>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> >>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> >>>>
> >>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
> >>>
> >>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> >>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
> >>
> >> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
> >> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
> >> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
> >> recording of the suites:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
> >
> > Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
>
> None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
>
> The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
> as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
> so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
> you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
> sing for itself.
>
> And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
> on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
> sparkling is better than overpowering.
>

IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.

Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I

Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
This is a medieval concept! ;-)

Happy New Year!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 06:18 UTC

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 10:06:38 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > >>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > >>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> > >>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >>>>>>> TIA!
> > >>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> > >>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
> > >>>
> > >>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> > >>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
> > >>
> > >> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
> > >> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
> > >> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
> > >> recording of the suites:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
> > >
> > > Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
> >
> > None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
> >
> > The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
> > as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
> > so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
> > you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
> > sing for itself.
> >
> > And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
> > on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
> > sparkling is better than overpowering.
> >
> IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.
>
> Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-dah_f4Py0

Etc ...

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 17:33 UTC

On Jan 2, 2024 at 1:06:34 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
>>>>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>>>> TIA!
>>>>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
>>>>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
>>>>>
>>>>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
>>>>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
>>>>
>>>> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
>>>> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
>>>> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
>>>> recording of the suites:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
>>>
>>> Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
>>
>> None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
>>
>> The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
>> as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
>> so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
>> you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
>> sing for itself.
>>
>> And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
>> on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
>> sparkling is better than overpowering.
>>
>
> IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.
>
> Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I
>
> Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
> This is a medieval concept! ;-)
>

Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how stylized the music is
played by a performer. Every piece is stylized by some degree, we expect that.
It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the record album which had
"Karajan" in much larger type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
Horowitz, as an example. Not that we don't also enjoy those things, when it
suits our preference!

> Happy New Year!

Same to you, Mr. Koran!

-Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 17:39 UTC

On Jan 2, 2024 at 12:33:52 PM EST, "Owen Hartnett" <ads@clipboardinc.com>
wrote:

> On Jan 2, 2024 at 1:06:34 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
>>>>>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> TIA!
>>>>>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
>>>>>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
>>>>>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
>>>>>
>>>>> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
>>>>> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
>>>>> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
>>>>> recording of the suites:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
>>>>
>>>> Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
>>>
>>> None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
>>>
>>> The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
>>> as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
>>> so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
>>> you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
>>> sing for itself.
>>>
>>> And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
>>> on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
>>> sparkling is better than overpowering.
>>>
>>
>> IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.
>>
>> Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I
>>
>> Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
>> This is a medieval concept! ;-)
>>
>
> Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how stylized the music is
> played by a performer. Every piece is stylized by some degree, we expect that.
> It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the record album which had
> "Karajan" in much larger type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
> Horowitz, as an example. Not that we don't also enjoy those things, when it
> suits our preference!
>
>> Happy New Year!
>
> Same to you, Mr. Koran!
>
> -Owen

Apologies! Meant to type Mr. Koren, of course!

-Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 17:43 UTC

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 9:34:01 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2024 at 1:06:34 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >> On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> >>>>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> TIA!
> >>>>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> >>>>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> >>>>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
> >>>>
> >>>> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
> >>>> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
> >>>> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
> >>>> recording of the suites:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
> >>>
> >>> Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
> >>
> >> None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
> >>
> >> The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
> >> as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
> >> so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
> >> you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
> >> sing for itself.
> >>
> >> And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
> >> on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
> >> sparkling is better than overpowering.
> >>
> >
> > IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.
> >
> > Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I
> >
> > Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
> > This is a medieval concept! ;-)
>
> Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how
> stylized the music is played by a performer. Every piece
> is stylized by some degree, we expect that.

Total non-sense. Music DOES NOT EXIST without the
performer -- just as theatre DOES NOT EXIST without
the actors, and ballet DOES NOT EXIST without the
dancers. The written play or the written score are
nothing more than incomplete templates to be
brought to life by actors/singers/dancers/
choreographers/instrumentalists/conductors
and even viola players.

> It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the
> record album which had "Karajan" in much larger
> type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
> Horowitz, as an example.

Non-sense. Beethoven DOES NOT MATTER. The
composer is the servant of the audience and of
the performers. Not the other way around.

> Not that we don't also enjoy those things, when it
> suits our preference!
>
> > Happy New Year!
>
> Same to you, Mr. Koran!

KOREN

Cheers!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 19:42 UTC

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 9:39:20 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2024 at 12:33:52 PM EST, "Owen Hartnett" <a...@clipboardinc.com>
> wrote:
> > On Jan 2, 2024 at 1:06:34 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 9:44:24 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:49:05 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail..com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 28, 2023 at 2:56:39 AM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:49:59 AM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 2023 at 1:39:32 AM EST, "Richard Kaplan"
> >>>>>>>> <richard.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 7:11:02 PM UTC-6, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> TIA!
> >>>>>>>>> Ashkenazy and Previn. AP was an astonishingly good pianist,
> >>>>>>>>> and Ashkenazy recorded more Rachmaninoff than anyone.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Seconded. The playing sparkles!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How about La Martha and Le Nelson? Do they sparkle?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg&t=220s
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not bad. They are more schmaltzy in the slow parts. I prefer
> >>>>>> A&P's less rubato, the music in itself is schmaltzy enough!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Comparing live performances with studio recordings doesn't
> >>>>> make sense. A&P sound rather buttoned up and colorless to
> >>>>> my current pair of ears. Here is another La Martha & Company
> >>>>> recording of the suites:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiknhtq9mRc
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is the "official" Martha @ Co. studio recording:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKCebbO-eo
> >>>
> >>> None of these is a "bad" recording in any sense of the word.
> >>>
> >>> The A&R recording breathes more than A&P, but not as much
> >>> as A&F. It's certainly a matter of taste, but Rach's melodies are
> >>> so rich that they don't need to be schmaltzed up. Sometimes
> >>> you just need to play it straight and in time and let the music
> >>> sing for itself.
> >>>
> >>> And when the music isn't slow, it's more than fast. It depends
> >>> on what you want to hear from a performance, but in my case,
> >>> sparkling is better than overpowering.
> >>>
> >>
> >> IMHO the most sparkling version is La Martha with Le Nelson.
> >>
> >> Lugansky and Rudenko are also very good:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2j9TgIN_I
> >>
> >> Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
> >> This is a medieval concept! ;-)
> >>
> >
> > Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how stylized the music is
> > played by a performer. Every piece is stylized by some degree, we expect that.
> > It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the record album which had
> > "Karajan" in much larger type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
> > Horowitz, as an example. Not that we don't also enjoy those things, when it
> > suits our preference!
> >
> >> Happy New Year!
> >
> > Same to you, Mr. Koran!
>
> Apologies! Meant to type Mr. Koren, of course!

No worries, happens all the time! ;-)

Cheers!

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

<6595a0bf$0$7770$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
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 by: MELMOTH - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:00 UTC

Dan Koren a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :
> Total non-sense. Music DOES NOT EXIST without the
> performer -- just as theatre DOES NOT EXIST without
> the actors, and ballet DOES NOT EXIST without the
> dancers

And RMCR DOES NOT EXIST without MELMOTH...

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 21:03 UTC

On Jan 2, 2024 at 12:43:47 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>
>>> Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
>>> This is a medieval concept! ;-)
>>
>> Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how
>> stylized the music is played by a performer. Every piece
>> is stylized by some degree, we expect that.
>
> Total non-sense. Music DOES NOT EXIST without the
> performer -- just as theatre DOES NOT EXIST without
> the actors, and ballet DOES NOT EXIST without the
> dancers. The written play or the written score are
> nothing more than incomplete templates to be
> brought to life by actors/singers/dancers/
> choreographers/instrumentalists/conductors
> and even viola players.

Who suggested firing the performers? Not me.

Can we at least agree that some performances have more sparkle, in a purely
subjective way?

>
>> It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the
>> record album which had "Karajan" in much larger
>> type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
>> Horowitz, as an example.
>
> Non-sense. Beethoven DOES NOT MATTER. The
> composer is the servant of the audience and of
> the performers. Not the other way around.

Beethoven the servant of Karajan! OK!

> -Owen

Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites

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Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for Rachmaninov's piano suites
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 21:23 UTC

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 1:03:59 PM UTC-8, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2024 at 12:43:47 PM EST, "Dan Koren" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>> Let's forget about the music speaking/singing for itself.
> >>> This is a medieval concept! ;-)
> >>
> >> Then I redefine the medieval concept to mean just how
> >> stylized the music is played by a performer. Every piece
> >> is stylized by some degree, we expect that.
> >
> > Total non-sense. Music DOES NOT EXIST without the
> > performer -- just as theatre DOES NOT EXIST without
> > the actors, and ballet DOES NOT EXIST without the
> > dancers. The written play or the written score are
> > nothing more than incomplete templates to be
> > brought to life by actors/singers/dancers/
> > choreographers/instrumentalists/conductors
> > and even viola players.
>
> Who suggested firing the performers? Not me.

Neither did I. I merely implied firing the critics,
musicologists, and music historians. Are there
some abandoned mines in Yukon where they
could be sent for the remainder of their lives?

> Can we at least agree that some performances
> have more sparkle, in a purely subjective way?

Sparkle is always subjective.

> >> It's a matter of ratio, not a binary one. Think of the
> >> record album which had "Karajan" in much larger
> >> type than "Beethoven," or anything played by
> >> Horowitz, as an example.
> >
> > Non-sense. Beethoven DOES NOT MATTER. The
> > composer is the servant of the audience and of
> > the performers. Not the other way around.
>
> Beethoven the servant of Karajan! OK!

Did you forget Beethoven was writing music for
his paying patrons? Von Karajan was no worse
than von Waldstein, von Swieten, Count Andreas
Razumovsky, Prince Karl Lichnowsky, or the
Archduke Rudolph of Austria.

Beethoven's only redeeming grace was that he
didn't write for the critics.

Ciao!

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