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arts / alt.history.what-if / Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

SubjectAuthor
* Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackZZyXX
+- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackSolomonW
+* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attackdama...@gmail.com
|`* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackZZyXX
| `* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackSolomonW
|  `* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackZZyXX
|   `* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackSolomonW
|    `- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attackpyotr filipivich
+* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackThe Horny Goat
|+- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackZZyXX
|`- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attackpyotr filipivich
`* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackRich Rostrom
 `* Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackZZyXX
  +- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackChrysi Cat
  `- Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor AttackThe Horny Goat

1
Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<s9k2s8$16bk$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: zzy...@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv (ZZyXX)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2021 20:13:11 -0700
Organization: Camp Soda Restoration Project
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 by: ZZyXX - Mon, 7 Jun 2021 03:13 UTC

what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
no captured pilots...nothing

I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
America

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<2gatzsq38inn.lz8gvv14g202.dlg@40tude.net>

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 17:31:22 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
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 by: SolomonW - Mon, 7 Jun 2021 07:31 UTC

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 20:13:11 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:

> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
> attacked Pearl Harbor:

Japanese codes were broken, so the US government knew who did it.

> no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
> no captured pilots...nothing

Japan was also attacking in many other places.
>
> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
> America

That was actually not intended.

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<2a4d64a4-d929-4505-80eb-d32dcaddb074n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
From: damark...@gmail.com (dama...@gmail.com)
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 by: dama...@gmail.com - Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:36 UTC

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
> no captured pilots...nothing
>
> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
> America
Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof.. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.

Dean

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<s9lsmt$1hhm$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: zzy...@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv (ZZyXX)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:40:14 -0700
Organization: Camp Soda Restoration Project
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 by: ZZyXX - Mon, 7 Jun 2021 19:40 UTC

On 6/7/21 4:36 AM, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>
>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>> America
> Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.
>
> Dean
>
suppose for some reason the Japanese deliberately chose to make a
declaration of war and they pull a trump and deny it was them

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<scltbgl798hqut9ckcd05hovquini28s26@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 8 Jun 2021 02:29 UTC

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 20:13:11 -0700, ZZyXX
<zzyxx@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv> wrote:

>what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>no captured pilots...nothing
>
>I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>America

"To the best of my knowledge"?!?

Uh what exactly do you think FDR was trying to persuade Congress to do
with his "day that will live in infamy" speech? (And with the
exception of Jeanette Rankin they did do - and near unanimously)

Which is why Hitler was the last leader ever to declare war on America
(or was it Mussolini?)

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<w8l0w9q3tztz.14teif7nmr6iw.dlg@40tude.net>

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:03:52 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
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 by: SolomonW - Tue, 8 Jun 2021 07:03 UTC

On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:40:14 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:

> On 6/7/21 4:36 AM, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
>>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>>
>>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>>> America
>> Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.
>>
>> Dean
>>
> suppose for some reason the Japanese deliberately chose to make a
> declaration of war and they pull a trump and deny it was them

How do the Japanese deny these dead pilots corpses here? It is not exactly
like these look like dead Germans or Italians.

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<s9p1nh$1a8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: zzy...@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv (ZZyXX)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:24:17 -0700
Organization: Camp Soda Restoration Project
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 by: ZZyXX - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 00:24 UTC

On 6/8/21 12:03 AM, SolomonW wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:40:14 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:
>
>> On 6/7/21 4:36 AM, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
>>>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>>>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>>>
>>>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>>>> America
>>> Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.
>>>
>>> Dean
>>>
>> suppose for some reason the Japanese deliberately chose to make a
>> declaration of war and they pull a trump and deny it was them
>
> How do the Japanese deny these dead pilots corpses here? It is not exactly
> like these look like dead Germans or Italians.
>
pull a trump and deny, deny, deny

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<s9p1qf$1a8$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: zzy...@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv (ZZyXX)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:25:51 -0700
Organization: Camp Soda Restoration Project
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 by: ZZyXX - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 00:25 UTC

On 6/7/21 7:29 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 20:13:11 -0700, ZZyXX
> <zzyxx@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv> wrote:
>
>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>
>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>> America
>
> "To the best of my knowledge"?!?
>
> Uh what exactly do you think FDR was trying to persuade Congress to do
> with his "day that will live in infamy" speech? (And with the
> exception of Jeanette Rankin they did do - and near unanimously)

I was just trying to set a scenario

>
> Which is why Hitler was the last leader ever to declare war on America
> (or was it Mussolini?)
>

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<x9min5ttk84t$.1szipkhv4d74$.dlg@40tude.net>

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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 18:07:05 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:07 UTC

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:24:17 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:

> On 6/8/21 12:03 AM, SolomonW wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:40:14 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/7/21 4:36 AM, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
>>>>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>>>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>>>>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>>>>> America
>>>> Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>> suppose for some reason the Japanese deliberately chose to make a
>>> declaration of war and they pull a trump and deny it was them
>>
>> How do the Japanese deny these dead pilots corpses here? It is not exactly
>> like these look like dead Germans or Italians.
>>
> pull a trump

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=pants-fire&speaker=joe-biden

> and deny, deny, deny

Even if it is unlikely to get away with it, what is the point of doing
Pearl Harbor? Japan, if it keeps doing it, will not get away with it?

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<82j1cgl2ffflos2q2eh1o1rm2pch2a7dnl@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
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 by: pyotr filipivich - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 14:20 UTC

SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> on Wed, 9 Jun 2021 18:07:05 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:24:17 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:
>
>> On 6/8/21 12:03 AM, SolomonW wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:40:14 -0700, ZZyXX wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/7/21 4:36 AM, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:13:14 PM UTC-4, ZZyXX wrote:
>>>>>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>>>>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>>>>>> no captured pilots...nothing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>>>>>> America
>>>>> Difficult to imagine. No other country in the world had the ability nor the inclination to attack Pearl Harbor. Twenty-nine Japanese aircraft were shot down over Pearl Harbor. Even without national markings, I am reasonably sure that aircraft data plates stating "Mitsubishi" would have been proof. As for Japan not declaring war, the declaration was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack. Instead, it was accidentally delayed and delivered about an hour later. The declaration of war was in writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dean
>>>>>
>>>> suppose for some reason the Japanese deliberately chose to make a
>>>> declaration of war and they pull a trump and deny it was them
>>>
>>> How do the Japanese deny these dead pilots corpses here? It is not exactly
>>> like these look like dead Germans or Italians.
>>>
>> pull a trump
>
>
>https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=pants-fire&speaker=joe-biden
>
>> and deny, deny, deny
>
>Even if it is unlikely to get away with it, what is the point of doing
>Pearl Harbor? Japan, if it keeps doing it, will not get away with it?

mutter, mutter, people who think that historic events happen in a
vacuum.

What's in it for Japan to conceal their involvement in two air
raids on the US Army and Navy installations in the Hawaiian Territory,
when they are going to war with the United States anyway? Attacks
were made on US forces in the Philippines too.

Did the Japanese Navy reverse engineer alien technology recovered
from the Tsugunaka "incident" that enabled them to render their
aircraft to be completely invisible to the residents of Oahu? (I'm
not saying the aircraft were "stealthed", but that some other means
caused the Americans to not be able to "see" them at all.)
"Yesterday, December Seventh, saboteurs caused multiple explosions
on US installations in Hawaii...."
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<7gj1cgthoib4cc4i6afms8d34iriv1rmso@4ax.com>

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From: pha...@mindspring.com (pyotr filipivich)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 07:20:58 -0700
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 by: pyotr filipivich - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 14:20 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> on Mon, 07 Jun 2021 19:29:45 -0700
typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 20:13:11 -0700, ZZyXX
><zzyxx@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv> wrote:
>
>>what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
>>no captured pilots...nothing
>>
>>I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
>>America
>
>"To the best of my knowledge"?!?

And there is the root of the problem. Lack of even basic
knowledge.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<sa2pq9$9at$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rrost...@comcast.net (Rich Rostrom)
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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:10:32 -0500
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 by: Rich Rostrom - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:10 UTC

On 6/6/21 10:13 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance photos
> no captured pilots...nothing
>
> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war on
> America

This is silly. No nation other than Japan had the
capacity to make the attack. Everyone knew this.
And there were many aircraft shot down over Oahu.
At least a dozen crashed on the island. Even if
the external markings were painted, the planes
were known Japanese types, with Japanese labels
all over the interiors.

And a Japanese mini-sub ran aground and was
captured. (The operator was taken prisoner.
IOW, he was taken prisoner in the first 15
minutes of the war.)

--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<sa32ag$1mkf$4@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: zzy...@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv (ZZyXX)
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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:35:45 -0700
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 by: ZZyXX - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:35 UTC

On 6/12/21 10:10 AM, Rich Rostrom wrote:
> On 6/6/21 10:13 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance
>> photos no captured pilots...nothing
>>
>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war
>> on America
>
> This is silly. No nation other than Japan had the
> capacity to make the attack. Everyone knew this.
> And there were many aircraft shot down over Oahu.
> At least a dozen crashed on the island. Even if
> the external markings were painted, the planes
> were known Japanese types, with Japanese labels
> all over the interiors.
>
> And a Japanese mini-sub ran aground and was
> captured. (The operator was taken prisoner.
> IOW, he was taken prisoner in the first 15
> minutes of the war.)
>
well they could have been exports

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

<cpcxI.619539$ST2.298562@fx47.iad>

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 by: Chrysi Cat - Sun, 13 Jun 2021 00:35 UTC

On 6/12/2021 1:35 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
> On 6/12/21 10:10 AM, Rich Rostrom wrote:
>> On 6/6/21 10:13 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
>>> what if it wasn't immediately possible to determine what country had
>>> attacked Pearl Harbor: no rising sun insignias no reconnaissance
>>> photos no captured pilots...nothing
>>>
>>> I mean to the best of my knowledge, Japan didn't actually declare war
>>> on America
>>
>> This is silly. No nation other than Japan had the
>> capacity to make the attack. Everyone knew this.
>> And there were many aircraft shot down over Oahu.
>> At least a dozen crashed on the island. Even if
>> the external markings were painted, the planes
>> were known Japanese types, with Japanese labels
>> all over the interiors.
>>
>> And a Japanese mini-sub ran aground and was
>> captured. (The operator was taken prisoner.
>> IOW, he was taken prisoner in the first 15
>> minutes of the war.)
>>
> well they could have been exports
>
>

Dude, at this point you're like the guy with the hair of a Babylon 5
Centauri saying "I'm not saying it's aliens, but".

Drop this one. It would take ASB mind control for either the Japanese to
try this (at a time when there was no export of military hardware to
civilians) or for the Yanks to believe it.

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack

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Subject: Re: Anonymous Pearl Harbor Attack
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 13 Jun 2021 16:36 UTC

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:35:45 -0700, ZZyXX
<zzyxx@CampSoda-Restoration-Project.tv> wrote:

>> And a Japanese mini-sub ran aground and was
>> captured. (The operator was taken prisoner.
>> IOW, he was taken prisoner in the first 15
>> minutes of the war.)
>>
>well they could have been exports

Or knock-offs - like the Tupolev-4 (copy of the B-29)

Still I think the entire WI is Pythonesque in its silliness.

1
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