With a PoD of 1913 or later, what would it have taken for Russia to become a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise similar to the US nowadays? Yes, the US has a lot of xenophobia and whatnot nowadays, but the US is also one of the most pro-immigrant countries on the planet:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/320669/canada-migrants-sixth-place.aspx

Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are more pro-immigrant, but to my knowledge, those countries are more selective of their immigrant mix than the US is. In other words, they place a larger emphasis on acquiring smart and talented immigrants (and their families) than the US does, so it would make sense for them to be even more pro-immigration than the US is. But overall, the US still does appear to be pretty pro-immigration, especially right now relative to 20, 30, or 50 years ago:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/313106/americans-not-less-immigration-first-time.aspx

The US is also a relative multicultural paradise, with a lot of different groups successfully getting along in places such as New York, Chicago, Texas, California, Florida, et cetera. The US's main issue, of course, has been with very high levels of black crime, but other than that, the US's multicultural experiment really hasn't turned out all that badly. One could even view it as a significant success story, which is (again) a bit more admirable than for Canada, Australia, and New Zealand since the US's immigrant mix is likely more varied than those countries' immigrant mix is. The US also has huge communities of different groups, such as Jews, Hmong, Persians, Germans, Italians, Poles, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Vietnamese, Koreans, Japanese, French, Brits, Filipinos, Arabs, Hispanics, blacks, et cetera.

Anyway, what exactly would it have realistically taken for Russia to become such a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise by now with a PoD of 1913 or later? Any thoughts on this?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are more pro-immigrant, but to my knowle=
>dge, those countries are more selective of their immigrant mix than the US =
>is. In other words, they place a larger emphasis on acquiring smart and tal=
>ented immigrants (and their families) than the US does, so it would make se=
>nse for them to be even more pro-immigration than the US is. But overall, t=
>he US still does appear to be pretty pro-immigration, especially right now =
>relative to 20, 30, or 50 years ago:

I would argue Canada in the past decade has largely gone off that - at
the present time 53% of Canadian immigrants are from either the
Peoples' Republic of China or India. Given that 70+% of immigrants to
Canada end up in either Toronto or Vancouver you can see that there
are strong social stresses PARTICULARLY with newcomers from the PRC
who tend to be much more aggressive than other nationalities.

I do think Canada as a nation would be much better off if what you are
saying were actually true - Canadian immigration USED to have a strong
mandate for diversified immigration - this is no longer the case.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Anyway, what exactly would it have realistically taken for Russia to become=
> such a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise by now with a PoD of =
>1913 or later? Any thoughts on this?

I don't see ANY Red leader nor any of the White factions being a
"multicultural pro-immigrant paradise" nor do I envision the only
other remotely likely alternative (e.g. a German conquest of western
Russia - something like the Brest-Litovsk boundary) being remotely
pro-immigrant.

I certainly don't see Germany recreating "The Pale"

On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 7:56:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are more pro-immigrant, but to my knowle=
> >dge, those countries are more selective of their immigrant mix than the US =
> >is. In other words, they place a larger emphasis on acquiring smart and tal=
> >ented immigrants (and their families) than the US does, so it would make se=
> >nse for them to be even more pro-immigration than the US is. But overall, t=
> >he US still does appear to be pretty pro-immigration, especially right now =
> >relative to 20, 30, or 50 years ago:
> I would argue Canada in the past decade has largely gone off that - at
> the present time 53% of Canadian immigrants are from either the
> Peoples' Republic of China or India. Given that 70+% of immigrants to
> Canada end up in either Toronto or Vancouver you can see that there
> are strong social stresses PARTICULARLY with newcomers from the PRC
> who tend to be much more aggressive than other nationalities.
>

Aggressive in exactly what sense?

> I do think Canada as a nation would be much better off if what you are
> saying were actually true - Canadian immigration USED to have a strong
> mandate for diversified immigration - this is no longer the case.

Well, Canada can always implement something similar to the Diversity Visa Lottery like the US already has. Or Canada can implement diversity preferences in immigration, but also make those based on merit.

On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Anyway, what exactly would it have realistically taken for Russia to become=
> > such a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise by now with a PoD of =
> >1913 or later? Any thoughts on this?
> I don't see ANY Red leader nor any of the White factions being a
> "multicultural pro-immigrant paradise" nor do I envision the only
> other remotely likely alternative (e.g. a German conquest of western
> Russia - something like the Brest-Litovsk boundary) being remotely
> pro-immigrant.
>
> I certainly don't see Germany recreating "The Pale"

What about if liberal democracy survives in Russia or at least is restored in Russia at some later point in time? Think of Russia's early 1917 government, but more competent.

On 6/16/2021 9:25 PM, WolfBear wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Anyway, what exactly would it have realistically taken for Russia to become=
>>> such a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise by now with a PoD of =
>>> 1913 or later? Any thoughts on this?
>> I don't see ANY Red leader nor any of the White factions being a
>> "multicultural pro-immigrant paradise" nor do I envision the only
>> other remotely likely alternative (e.g. a German conquest of western
>> Russia - something like the Brest-Litovsk boundary) being remotely
>> pro-immigrant.
>>
>> I certainly don't see Germany recreating "The Pale"
>
> What about if liberal democracy survives in Russia or at least is restored in Russia at some later point in time? Think of Russia's early 1917 government, but more competent.
>

Ahahaha you're serious. Let me laugh harder.

Russia is _genetically_ authoritarian. It's why Yeltsin's short time of
apparent liberal democracy devolved into two-plus decades of Putinism.

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 4:09:14 AM UTC-7, Chrysi Cat wrote:
> On 6/16/2021 9:25 PM, WolfBear wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Anyway, what exactly would it have realistically taken for Russia to become=
> >>> such a relative multicultural pro-immigrant paradise by now with a PoD of =
> >>> 1913 or later? Any thoughts on this?
> >> I don't see ANY Red leader nor any of the White factions being a
> >> "multicultural pro-immigrant paradise" nor do I envision the only
> >> other remotely likely alternative (e.g. a German conquest of western
> >> Russia - something like the Brest-Litovsk boundary) being remotely
> >> pro-immigrant.
> >>
> >> I certainly don't see Germany recreating "The Pale"
> >
> > What about if liberal democracy survives in Russia or at least is restored in Russia at some later point in time? Think of Russia's early 1917 government, but more competent.
> >
> Ahahaha you're serious. Let me laugh harder.
>
> Russia is _genetically_ authoritarian. It's why Yeltsin's short time of
> apparent liberal democracy devolved into two-plus decades of Putinism.
>
> --
> Chrysi Cat
> 1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
> Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
> Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

Yeltsin wasn't a real democrat. If he was, then he wouldn't have had tanks fire at the Russian parliament building. Just imagine any Western leader ever actually doing that!

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:25:01 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Well, Canada can always implement something similar to the Diversity Visa Lottery like the US already has. Or Canada can implement diversity preferences in immigration, but also make those based on merit.

What Canada does instead is give preference to those with relatives
already there which means we get a lot of the aged who of course in a
socialized medical system take far more than their children will ever
contribute.

Plus the fact that Canada has tolerated "astronaut families" which
means husbands stay behind working in their home countries (and NOT
paying taxes in Canada) while Mom and kids live in Canada and get the
social programs and education. Obviously if the situation goes south
(for instance in Hong Kong) Dad simply gets on the first jet out.

There are census districts in Richmond BC which have some of the
lowest per capita incomes in the country - which is mostly notable
since the average housing prices in these districts is $ 2 million +.

One of the biggest blunders the former Harper government ever made was
laying off half the Canada Revenue Agency auditor teams (think IRS) in
the Hong Kong consulate (which was also responsible for tax matters
concerning Canadian residents with family members in Mainland China -
which is today 1/3 of all immigrants to Canada) since Canadian
residents are required by law to declare and be taxed on their
worldwide incomes - and MANY of these astronaut families have gotten
away with declaring ONLY their Canadian income (which is tiny since
most of them live on foreign remittances which are supposed to be
taxed but often aren't due to tax evasion which isn't charged as it
should be)

Naturally as a Canadian taxpayer who has to declare ALL my income this
is outrageous (as it means MY taxes are higher than they should be!)
and is nowhere more so than in the real estate markets where people
like my early 30-something children are being outbid on their first
homes by untaxed foreign capital that is supposed to be taxed but in
practice mostly isn't.

If it were a level playing field I'd be fine but with widespread
cheating not being called to account the playing field is anything but
level.