Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.

Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either.

On 6/15/2021 4:05 PM, WolfBear wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
>> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
>
> Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either.
>

OK, at *that* point those restrictions are basically there to prove this
is ALREADY the "maximum Muslims under Russian rule" timeline.

Was that your intent?

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 4:27:21 PM UTC-7, Chrysi Cat wrote:
> On 6/15/2021 4:05 PM, WolfBear wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
> >> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
> >
> > Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either.
> >
> OK, at *that* point those restrictions are basically there to prove this
> is ALREADY the "maximum Muslims under Russian rule" timeline.
>
> Was that your intent?
>
> --
> Chrysi Cat
> 1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
> Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
> Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

I cannot imagine that our TL was the maximum possible number of Muslims under Russian rule. To elaborate:

-In the event of a WWI victory, Russia could have conquered eastern Anatolia or even eastern Anatolia plus central Anatolia.
-In the event of an Afghan WWI entry, Russia could have conquered northern Afghanistan up to the Hindu Kush
-Had the Persian Communists gained power after World War I, maybe they would have been willing to unite with the Soviet Union: https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/soviet-socialist-republic-iran-gilan-history-imperialism
-The Soviet Union could have taken Xinjiang and its Muslim Uyghurs from China in either the 1930s or 1940s. Or Russia could have supported Yakub Beg's rebellion against China in the 1870s.
-Russia could have pursued a generous immigration policy in regards to Muslims, including turning a blind eye to Muslim illegal immigrants.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:01:45 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.

Russia conquers Xinjiang (home of the Urghurs) would be a good start.
So would a more successful war against the Ottomans though to be fair
to get to the Ottomans you have to go thru all sorts of non-Muslim
nationalities.

Of course a "baby bonus" under the Tsar would increase the already
large Muslim families pre-1917.....

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:05:23 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
>> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
>
>Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either.

Wait a minute - if the Red Army conquers Xinjiang (nominally Allied
Chinese) that wouldn't count?

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:05:23 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
> >> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
> >
> >Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either.
> Wait a minute - if the Red Army conquers Xinjiang (nominally Allied
> Chinese) that wouldn't count?

Not if it would be a localized war as opposed to a part of a global war. The European aspect of WWII was already over by late 1945, after all.

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:10:52 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:01:45 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
> Russia conquers Xinjiang (home of the Urghurs) would be a good start.
> So would a more successful war against the Ottomans though to be fair
> to get to the Ottomans you have to go thru all sorts of non-Muslim
> nationalities.
>
> Of course a "baby bonus" under the Tsar would increase the already
> large Muslim families pre-1917.....

Can Russia realistically conquer ALL OF Anatolia?

And Muslims also had high mortality rates in Tsarist times, being pre-demographic transition, no?

> WolfBear
>
> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule
> with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited
> for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule
> at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.

Russia already has the most Muslim in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia

Islam in Russia is a minority religion. Russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe; and according to US Department of State in 2017,[2] Muslims in Russia numbered 10,220,000 or 7% of the total population. According to a comprehensive survey conducted in 2012, Muslims were 6.5% of Russia's population.[3][4] However, the populations of two federal subjects with Islamic majorities were not surveyed due to social unrest, which together had a population of nearly 2 million, namely Chechnya and Ingushetia,[5] thus the total number of Muslims may be slightly larger. The Grand Mufti of Russia, Sheikh Rawil Gaynetdin, places the Muslim population of Russia at 25,000,000 as of 2018.[4]

On Wednesday, 16 June 2021 at 00:51:57 UTC+1, WolfBear wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 4:27:21 PM UTC-7, Chrysi Cat wrote:
> > On 6/15/2021 4:05 PM, WolfBear wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:01:46 PM UTC-7, WolfBear wrote:
> > >> Here's a fun AHC: Maximize the number of Muslims under Russian rule with a PoD of 1890 or later. Also, mass conversions to Islam are prohibited for the sake of this AHC. And these Muslims have to be under Russian rule at least for several decades, rather than only briefly.
> > >
> > > Also, no Axis victory scenarios for this AHC. And no Soviet victory scenarios over the Allies in an alt-World War II and/or World War III either..
> > >
> > OK, at *that* point those restrictions are basically there to prove this
> > is ALREADY the "maximum Muslims under Russian rule" timeline.
> >
> > Was that your intent?
> >
> > --
> > Chrysi Cat
> > 1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
> > Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
> > Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
> I cannot imagine that our TL was the maximum possible number of Muslims under Russian rule. To elaborate:
>
> -In the event of a WWI victory, Russia could have conquered eastern Anatolia or even eastern Anatolia plus central Anatolia.
> -In the event of an Afghan WWI entry, Russia could have conquered northern Afghanistan up to the Hindu Kush
> -Had the Persian Communists gained power after World War I, maybe they would have been willing to unite with the Soviet Union: https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/soviet-socialist-republic-iran-gilan-history-imperialism
> -The Soviet Union could have taken Xinjiang and its Muslim Uyghurs from China in either the 1930s or 1940s. Or Russia could have supported Yakub Beg's rebellion against China in the 1870s.
> -Russia could have pursued a generous immigration policy in regards to Muslims, including turning a blind eye to Muslim illegal immigrants.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game - "Historians consider the end of the Great Game to be the 10 September 1895 signing of the Pamir Boundary Commission protocols,[7] when the border between Afghanistan and the Russian empire was defined." That date is five years after your limit. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game#Exchange_of_Notes_Between_Great_Britain_and_Russia_1895 "he agreements also resulted in the Russian Empire losing control of most Afghan territory it conquered, with the exception of Panjdeh." It might be possible to imagine a TL where Russia retains the Afghan territory which it had conquered, but has less influence in Persia than in OTL.

After a Dynastic Marriage, the Emperor of Russia becomes the
Sultan of the Ottomans. There is some conflict over whether he can
become the Caliph as well, and the Saudis lead a rebellion to liberate
The Holy Cities.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 10:31:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

> After a Dynastic Marriage, the Emperor of Russia becomes the
>Sultan of the Ottomans. There is some conflict over whether he can
>become the Caliph as well, and the Saudis lead a rebellion to liberate
>The Holy Cities.

I would think I would have as much chance of becoming POTUS as THAT
would have a chance of happening.

(And most of the regulars here know I am NOT an American!)

On Thursday, 17 June 2021 at 03:50:57 UTC+1, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 10:31:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > After a Dynastic Marriage, the Emperor of Russia becomes the
> >Sultan of the Ottomans. There is some conflict over whether he can
> >become the Caliph as well, and the Saudis lead a rebellion to liberate
> >The Holy Cities.
> I would think I would have as much chance of becoming POTUS as THAT
> would have a chance of happening.
>
> (And most of the regulars here know I am NOT an American!)
>
The nearest thing to this that I can think of is that some of the Muslim Mughal emperors married Hindu ladies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_mothers_of_the_Mughal_Emperors

There was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_VI_of_Le%C3%B3n_and_Castile#Zaida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaida_of_Seville - a Muslim who became the wife or concubine of the King of Castile.

I cannot however imagine any dynastic claim through any of these ladies.

Graham Truesdale <graham.truesdale@gmail.com> on Thu, 17 Jun 2021
11:06:46 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>On Thursday, 17 June 2021 at 03:50:57 UTC+1, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 10:31:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> > After a Dynastic Marriage, the Emperor of Russia becomes the
>> >Sultan of the Ottomans. There is some conflict over whether he can
>> >become the Caliph as well, and the Saudis lead a rebellion to liberate
>> >The Holy Cities.
>> I would think I would have as much chance of becoming POTUS as THAT
>> would have a chance of happening.
>>
>> (And most of the regulars here know I am NOT an American!)
>>
>The nearest thing to this that I can think of is that some of the Muslim Mughal emperors married Hindu ladies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_mothers_of_the_Mughal_Emperors
>
>There was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_VI_of_Le%C3%B3n_and_Castile#Zaida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaida_of_Seville - a Muslim who became the wife or concubine of the King of Castile.
>
>I cannot however imagine any dynastic claim through any of these ladies.

He was wondering how to maximize the number of Muslims in the
Russian Empire.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"