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arts / alt.history.what-if / Re: The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?

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* The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?WolfBear
`- Re: The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?The Horny Goat

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The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?

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Subject: The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?
From: m4j...@gmail.com (WolfBear)
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 by: WolfBear - Mon, 21 Jun 2021 23:10 UTC

What if the fate of Zionism in a TL where France doesn't fall in 1940? If the Schwarze Kapelle are actually able to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis fast enough afterwards, then this would mean no Holocaust at all. So, on the one hand, this would mean that the Nazi era might simply be viewed as simply another page in a centuries-long history of European anti-Semitism. So, there might not be the same level of urgency in regards to European Jewish emigration. But on the other hand even if "only" 10-30% of, say, Polish Jews actually want to emigrate, that's still between 300,000 and 1 million Polish Jews--which is A LOT! The Zionist movement would gladly welcome having so many additional supporters and potential immigrants to Palestine--no doubt about that! But would the political will in the West actually exist in order to create a Jewish state in this TL? And if so, would the League of Nations actually approve of this? And if not, are the Zionists in Palestine nevertheless going to be capable of staging an insurgency and create their own state anyway? If so, will such a state actually be capable of attracting international recognition or will it remain an unrecognized state for decades, similar to, say, Transnistria in real life?

Re: The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
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Subject: Re: The fate of Zionism in a no-Fall of France TL?
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 22 Jun 2021 04:02 UTC

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:10:27 -0700 (PDT), WolfBear <m4josh@gmail.com>
wrote:

>What if the fate of Zionism in a TL where France doesn't fall in 1940? If the Schwarze Kapelle are actually able to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis fast enough afterwards, then this would mean no Holocaust at all. So, on the one hand, this would mean that the Nazi era might simply be viewed as simply another page in a centuries-long history of European anti-Semitism. So, there might not be the same level of urgency in regards to European Jewish emigration. But on the other hand even if "only" 10-30% of, say, Polish Jews actually want to emigrate, that's still between 300,000 and 1 million Polish Jews--which is A LOT! The Zionist movement would gladly welcome having so many additional supporters and potential immigrants to Palestine--no doubt about that! But would the political will in the West actually exist in order to create a Jewish state in this TL? And if so, would the League of Nations actually approve of this? And if not, are the Zionists in Palestine nevertheless going to be
>capable of staging an insurgency and create their own state anyway? If so, will such a state actually be capable of attracting international recognition or will it remain an unrecognized state for decades, similar to, say, Transnistria in real life?

In the event that the Nazis take Poland and nothing else and somehow
remain in power that still puts the majority of the Jews that were
eventually murdered in German hands.

The Jewish population in Poland was 3-4x as large as the French Jewish
population and the Jewish population in Belgium, Holland and Norway
was very small by comparison.

Don't forget that in OTL the majority of Jews killed by the Nazis had
been murdered before the end of 1942 - e.g. before the tide of the war
had turned.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau7292

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