The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?

Bob Clark

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 11:01:09 AM UTC-5, rgrego...@gmail.com wrote:
> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>

I'm trying to think of something earlier that Haldeman's
The Forever War (1974) - seems like there should be.

I'll think some more.
- Tony

In article <c5cb4171-c7de-4f75-ad9f-2a9c7e158545n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmail.com> wrote:
> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of
>wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in
>science fiction?
>
> Bob Clark

"Worms Of The Earth" by Robert E. Howard :-)
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <c5cb4171-c7de-4f75-ad9f-2a9c7e158545n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmail.com> wrote:
> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of
>wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in
>science fiction?

Space Cat and the Kittens (1958) had Einstein Rosen Bridges, as I recall,
and I am pretty sure hyperspacial tunnels turn up in the Lensman series.
--
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 08:01:05 -0800 (PST), Robert Clark
<rgregoryclark@gmail.com> wrote:

> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>
> Bob Clark

Gray Lensman has a bunch of "Hyper-Spatial Tubes" from Astounding,
1939.

On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>
> Bob Clark

"On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
Baen on April 1, 1993
https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/

Lynn

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> > The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
> >
> > Bob Clark
> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
> Baen on April 1, 1993
> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>
> Lynn

Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955

pt

On 12/15/2021 2:31 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>>>
>>> Bob Clark
>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
>> Baen on April 1, 1993
>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>>
>> Lynn
>
> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
>
> pt

+1.

Lynn

On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:53:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/15/2021 2:31 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
>>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>>>>
>>>> Bob Clark
>>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
>>> Baen on April 1, 1993
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>
>> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
>>
>> pt
>
>+1.

Doc Smith had them in 1938. He called them "hyper-spatial tubes" but
it was the same principle.

Wikipedia mentions "The Meteor Girl" in 1931 by Jack Williams.

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
>> > The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>> >
>> > Bob Clark
>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
>> Baen on April 1, 1993
>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>>
>> Lynn
>
>Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955

Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.

On 12/15/2021 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
>>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>>>>
>>>> Bob Clark
>>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
>>> Baen on April 1, 1993
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>
>> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
>
> Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.

What is the difference ?

Lynn

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 12/15/2021 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> >>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob Clark
> >>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
> >>> Baen on April 1, 1993
> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
> >>>
> >>> Lynn
> >>
> >> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
> >
> > Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.
> What is the difference ?

In _Tunnel in the Sky_ the interstellar transport device is called a "Ramsbotham jump", named after
its inventor; it is also called a "gate". It folds space so that one can step through the gate to a distant
place without having to go through all the miles or light years of space that normally lie between the
origin and destination.

The difference between a wormhole or a dimensional gateway and a matter transmitter is that a
matter transmitter scans an object or being in such detail that when the information derived from
the object is sent to a "matter receiver", the object or being can be reconstructed in sufficient detail
for all practical purposes, similar in concept to sending a set of blueprints to a machine shop.
Whether the scanning process destroys the original object or whether more than one copy can
be made is at the whim of the author. Often the same device is used for transmitting and
receiving, so they should more properly called matter transceivers.

With a wormhole or dimensional gateway the original object or being itself travels to the destination
so there are no questions as to whether someone using the device is actually committing suicide or
whether the technology can be used as a replication system.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 8:10:33 PM UTC-6, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 12/15/2021 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> > >>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bob Clark
> > >>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
> > >>> Baen on April 1, 1993
> > >>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
> > >>>
> > >>> Lynn
> > >>
> > >> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
> > >
> > > Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.
> > What is the difference ?
> In _Tunnel in the Sky_ the interstellar transport device is called a "Ramsbotham jump", named after
> its inventor; it is also called a "gate". It folds space so that one can step through the gate to a distant
> place without having to go through all the miles or light years of space that normally lie between the
> origin and destination.
>
> The difference between a wormhole or a dimensional gateway and a matter transmitter is that a
> matter transmitter scans an object or being in such detail that when the information derived from
> the object is sent to a "matter receiver", the object or being can be reconstructed in sufficient detail
> for all practical purposes, similar in concept to sending a set of blueprints to a machine shop.
> Whether the scanning process destroys the original object or whether more than one copy can
> be made is at the whim of the author. Often the same device is used for transmitting and
> receiving, so they should more properly called matter transceivers.
>
> With a wormhole or dimensional gateway the original object or being itself travels to the destination
> so there are no questions as to whether someone using the device is actually committing suicide or
> whether the technology can be used as a replication system.
>
In looking up the spelling of Ramsbotham I came across this excellent and intriguing cover for a 1968 British
edition of the book. The picture is uncredited; does anyone recognize the artist's work?:

http://ski-ffy.blogspot.com/2011/05/tunnel-in-sky.html

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:01:09 AM UTC-6, rgrego...@gmail.com wrote:
> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?

Robert Heinlein's 1953 juvenile _Starman Jones_, where they are known a congruencies.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

"peterwezeman@hotmail.com" <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:da617237-dc8a-47a1-864d-9848d9ffe151n@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-6, Lynn
> McGuire wrote:
>> On 12/15/2021 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn
>> >> McGuire wrote:
>> >>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
>> >>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to
>> >>>> thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples
>> >>>> of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bob Clark
>> >>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber,
>> >>> published by Baen on April 1, 1993
>> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/
>> >>> 0671721631/
>> >>>
>> >>> Lynn
>> >>
>> >> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
>> >
>> > Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.
>> What is the difference ?
>
> In _Tunnel in the Sky_ the interstellar transport device is
> called a "Ramsbotham jump", named after its inventor; it is also
> called a "gate". It folds space so that one can step through the
> gate to a distant place without having to go through all the
> miles or light years of space that normally lie between the
> origin and destination.
>
> The difference between a wormhole or a dimensional gateway and a
> matter transmitter is that a matter transmitter scans an object
> or being in such detail that when the information derived from
> the object is sent to a "matter receiver", the object or being
> can be reconstructed in sufficient detail for all practical
> purposes, similar in concept to sending a set of blueprints to a
> machine shop. Whether the scanning process destroys the original
> object or whether more than one copy can be made is at the whim
> of the author. Often the same device is used for transmitting
> and receiving, so they should more properly called matter
> transceivers.
>
> With a wormhole or dimensional gateway the original object or
> being itself travels to the destination so there are no
> questions as to whether someone using the device is actually
> committing suicide or whether the technology can be used as a
> replication system.
>
A matter transmitter is defined by what the device does. A wormhole
is a transmission medium by which it might, or might now, do so.
Many examples are limited to light speed.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "pete...@gmail.com" writes:
>> >> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >>> Robert Clark wrote:
>> >>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking
>> >>>> of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes
>> >>>> appearing in science fiction?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bob Clark
>> >>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
>> >>> Baen on April 1, 1993
>> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
>> >>>
>> >>> Lynn
>> >>
>> >> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
>> >
>> > Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.
>> What is the difference ?
>
> In _Tunnel in the Sky_ the interstellar transport device is called a
> "Ramsbotham jump", named after its inventor; it is also called a "gate".
> It folds space so that one can step through the gate to a distant
> place without having to go through all the miles or light years of
> space that normally lie between the origin and destination.
>
> The difference between a wormhole or a dimensional gateway and a matter
> transmitter is that a matter transmitter scans an object or being in such
> detail that when the information derived from the object is sent to a
> "matter receiver", the object or being can be reconstructed in sufficient
> detail for all practical purposes, similar in concept to sending a set of
> blueprints to a machine shop. Whether the scanning process destroys the
> original object or whether more than one copy can be made is at the whim
> of the author. Often the same device is used for transmitting and receiving,
> so they should more properly called matter transceivers.
>
> With a wormhole or dimensional gateway the original object or being itself
> travels to the destination so there are no questions as to whether someone
> using the device is actually committing suicide or whether the technology
> can be used as a replication system.

Perry Rhodan mostly calls them "transmitters." Materietransmittern [1]
("material transmitters" and Ackerman adapted as "matter transmitters")
debut in Perry Rhodan Nr. 10 "Raumschlacht im Wega-Sektor." The
transmitters Empfänger und gleichzeitige Sender (both receive and
transmit).
The Ferrons who live in the Vega Sector merely use the transmitters
while they remain ignorant of the science behind the transmitters.
Creatures who live longer than the sun gave the transmitters to the
Ferrons as a gift.
The transmitters thoroughly outclass anything available on Earth at
the time. Ferron technology in other areas is also far superior to
Earth's. Nonetheless, wily Rhodan manages to keep the Ferrons in the
dark as to Earth's relative backwardness.

Note.

[1] https://translate.yandex.com/translate?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perrypedia.de%2Fwiki%2FTransmitter&lang=de-en

Danke,

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On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 02:10:33 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 12/15/2021 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >>> On 12/15/2021 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> > >>>> The recent discussion of possible warp drives led me to thinking of wormholes. Anyone know of some early examples of wormholes appearing in science fiction?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bob Clark
> > >>> "On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington 1)" by David Weber, published by
> > >>> Baen on April 1, 1993
> > >>> https://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0671721631/
> > >>>
> > >>> Lynn
> > >>
> > >> Heinlein "Tunnel in the Sky", 1955
> > >
> > > Was that a wormhole? They called it a matter transmitter.
> > What is the difference ?
> In _Tunnel in the Sky_ the interstellar transport device is called a "Ramsbotham jump", named after
> its inventor; it is also called a "gate". It folds space so that one can step through the gate to a distant
> place without having to go through all the miles or light years of space that normally lie between the
> origin and destination.
>
> The difference between a wormhole or a dimensional gateway and a matter transmitter is that a
> matter transmitter scans an object or being in such detail that when the information derived from
> the object is sent to a "matter receiver", the object or being can be reconstructed in sufficient detail
> for all practical purposes, similar in concept to sending a set of blueprints to a machine shop.
> Whether the scanning process destroys the original object or whether more than one copy can
> be made is at the whim of the author. Often the same device is used for transmitting and
> receiving, so they should more properly called matter transceivers.
>
> With a wormhole or dimensional gateway the original object or being itself travels to the destination
> so there are no questions as to whether someone using the device is actually committing suicide or
> whether the technology can be used as a replication system.

_Stargate_ taught us to visualise wormholes
as a <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes> -
also Star Trek - but I suppose there's no need for
a physical passageway between start and finish,
as is implied also by the word "tunnel". A bookworm
isn't a worm, strictly, but its wormholes are through
one book page at a time, and have length approximately
zero.

1960s Trek
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alternative_Factor>
involves a "dimensional corridor" to an antimatter
universe, although in this case the catastrophe happens
not when matter touches antimatter but when you meet
your own anti-self. As with Dr Edward Teller in
<https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/11910/what-does-a-e-c-denote-in-the-poem-about-edward-anti-teller/17296>
(which doesn't explicitly involve any wormholes).

On the other hand, one _Stargate SG-1_ episode has
a team member not materialised on Earth but stuck
in data storage in Earth's gate, which suggests you
are converted to energy or data as you enter the interface.
At least one other has a gate held open by a team member
sticking their hand into it while other people run through.
An early _Stargate Atlantis_ episode has a gate shuttlecraft
stick halfway in. It doesn't come halfway out, but presumably
it addresses what happened to people in the front seats.