Hasbro Pulse has kind of been jerking me around and playing musical release dates with this guy, but I was out of town for five days so it's probably just as well that he didn't show up until I got back home.

So, a little background. Motormaster was originally released in 1986, part of the Stunticons assortment, but he was part of the aborted Scramble City portion of Diaclone that would have shifted to a smaller scale. So, vehicles like Streetwise, Swindle, First Aid, etc. were significantly smaller than previous Diaclone releases like Prowl and Hound and Ratchet. Motormaster was a tractor trailer in the same vein as Optimus Prime, but he was a comparatively tiny toy. The entire cab-and-trailer assembly (which was one piece during G1) transformed into an average-sized robot. Despite this, Motormaster was depicted as being just as big as Prime in vehicle mode in the cartoon, and there's no way to get around this without some crazy mass-shifting.

The Combiner Wars version of Motormaster we got in 2015 was a truck cab only. During G1, the truck cab turned into Motormaster's feet. So, not especially satisfying as an update for the character. This is the first new version of Motormaster to come with a trailer since G1, not that we've gotten a particularly large assortment of Motormaster toys. He's a third-tier character at best, and it's honestly surprising that such a relatively unsung character has gotten such a big and expensive toy (the Commander class used to be closer to $80 USD but has jumped up to about $100 now).

So, he comes packaged in tractor trailer mode, and there seems to be a disproportionate amount of empty space in the box. Like, he takes up less than a third of the available space, with huge gaps above and below him as well as cardboard stuffed in front of him. He doesn't even take up the full length of the box. The front cab is about 5.5" inches in length, and the total vehicle with trailer is barely 10.75" long. It's a really weirdly proportioned trailer. It's much too small. They did this with Earthrise Optimus Prime, and for some reason they keep doing it. The third party guys don't seem to have this problem. FansProject Diesel and FansToys Road King managed to develop a full-sized trailer, and DX9's Capone arguably has a trailer that's TOO long. But, Hasbro gives us Mostofmaster. Smol truck is smol..

His colors are close to the look of the G1 toy—swirly silvery plastic for the trailer, black cab with dark purple windows. There are a couple of incongruous white spots on the bottom of the cab, which are elements used for robot mode. The 1986 version had vacuum metalized chrome for the front grill and bumper, but it's metallic silver paint here. The stickers on the sides of the trailer have been swapped out for purple paint operations, and there are prominent Decepticon badges both on the sides of the trailer and the cab. A lot of the toyetic details present on the G1 animation model (the Scramble City connector peg holes on the back of the trailer roof, the asymmetrical pegs on the front of the trailer roof) are not present on this toy, but it has its own toyetic elements (the black things visible on the front of the trailer).

For this version of Motormaster, the cab separates and transforms into a robot, while the trailer is not integrated as it was during G1. It's really the only way they could make Motormaster the same size as Prime in both modes. They were unofficial rivals during season two, so this was an important consideration. The size discrepancy between the G1 toys for Prime and Motormaster was pathetic.

So, to transform the cab, the sides explode, the roof explodes, everything explodes. To retain the integrity of his cartoon look, he has fake miniature truck cab parts with tiny little wheels to serve as his robot feet. The back of the cab ends up becoming the robot arms, with the trailer hitch and wheel base just sort of swinging up over his head and behind his back, and would you please pretend it's not there. It's the only visible kibble for robot mode, though.

Robot mode is about 6.75" in height. For the most part, they did a good job of retaining his cartoon proportions and color scheme. For the G1 toy, the entire robot body was made out of the silvery grey trailer, but for some reason his cartoon model gave him a black body with light grey arms. (This required Motormaster to actually change color in the show when he transformed!) The arms on this toy are a very light grey, almost white, but it's correct for the character. His head is black, but it should actually be a medium grey color. He has a light purple face with dark purple eyes, which is also cartoon-accurate (the "Autobots have blue eyes and Decepticons have red" rule was frequently ignored for the characters in season two).

Cartoon Motormaster also deviated from the shape of the toy, which was a rectangle from head to toe. In the show, he had an impossibly T-shaped upper torso and a trapezoidal head assembly. But, somehow they achieved that with the Legacy toy. The only vestigal odd elements are the oversized kneepads (made from the roof of the truck cab) and the duplicate truck grill halves on his shins (there was no real way to hide them). The kneepads aren't quite as much of a train wreck as I had initially thought based on early pictures back in April.

His articulation is good, with a swivel head, elbows that bend 90 degrees only, bicep and wrist swivels, a swivel waist, mid-thigh swivels, double-knee joints as required for the transformation, and the all-important ankle tilt (but no other possible ankle movement). He comes with a dual-barreled gun (not quite G1 accurate) and a sword, but you can't get to them until you open up his trailer.

During G1, Motormaster's toy could also partially unfold into a ramp mode, designed to hold one small Scramble City mini-vehicle. The original idea behind Scramble City was that all four large toys (Silverbolt, Hot Spot, Motormaster, Onslaught) could connect to Metroplex to form a large city, but when Hasbro repurposed two of the team leaders as Decepticons, their connectivity with Metroplex was never advertised. So, unfolding his trailer into a playset isn't unprecedented, though he certainly didn't do this in the G1 cartoon.

The front of the trailer separates from the back of the trailer, and the back piece then splits into an upper piece and a lower piece. (The sword is in a recessed cavity inside the trailer. It was vac-metal chrome for G1, but it's black here. Its color varied in the cartoon—sometimes it was black or silver or gold.) The shell wrapped around the front trailer chunk comes off and becomes yet another separate piece. The shell folds in half to form a tower, and the remaining chunk is pretty obviously the Menasor chest.

The rear top trailer chunk splits into two halves, with a third center piece that becomes the aforementioned gun. The bottom rear trailer chunk, which contains the Menasor fists, also splits in half. Yikes. This is like transforming Omega Supreme for the first time when I was ten years old. So many parts. We're up to seven trailer pieces to keep track of now.

The Menasor arms plug into the Menasor body, and then the Menasor toes plug into the arms to form tower extensions. The gun plugs into the top of the tower, which in turn you stick on top of the laid-down Menasor body. The result is this splayed-out collection of trailer parts in the rough shape of a battle station, with an option to stand Motormaster on top of Menasor's chest plate (maybe don't do this, because it will scratch the paint on the Decepticon symbol) and operate the main gun. It was something to do with the trailer parts besides have them turn into Menasor body parts, I suppose.. The variable nature of a toy like this means I'm sure there are plenty of other potential configurations. Maybe some parts would make good towers for Trypticon, since he desperately needs some.

To achieve the Menasor transformation, the wheel base backpack turns into a shelf and Motormaster's arms plug into it. The Menasor head is stowed away inside Motormaster's back, and Motormaster's head takes its place. Motormaster's legs fold up to either side like he was cosplaying as Soundwave, with his tiny cab feet poking out from either side. The Menasor chest-and-pelvis assembly attaches to Motormaster. From here, the battle station side towers become the empty Menasor leg frames, connecting using Combiner Wars pegs, and the panels on the remaining trailer parts turn inside-out to become the Menasor arm structures, sliding over the tiny cab feet.

The assembled Menasor configuration is about 12" at the head, with his antennas bringing him to closer to 12.5" in height. He's big, certainly, with most Deluxe-class toys (like Drag Strip) coming up to his knees. At the same time, though, he doesn't scale well with Combiner Wars Devastator, who is half a foot taller. (But, I suspect they may be redoing the G1 Constructicons as part of Studio Series in the future, so we might get a rescaled Devastator eventually.)

Motormaster's instructions only show connectivity directions for Drag Strip[ and Wildrider, the only other two Stunticons available currently. The center tower for the battle station remains unused as a Menasor component. Menasor has some good articulation, including some strong ratcheting joints for his legs, which makes me reasonably confident he can hold his weight in most poses.

There are potentially a couple of different configurations for Menasor's arms, and it's based partly on how his arms were interpreted differently in the cartoon by different artists. Sometimes, Menasor had these big, blocky arms and the Stunticon cars just attached to them like decorations. At other times, Drag Strip and Dead End formed the physical arms and the cars would bend in half when Menasor bent his elbows. This toy can achieve both looks. It's why Drag Strip (and presumably Dead End) can split in half at the waist. When you connect the upper half of Drag Strip to the Menasor shoulder and the lower half to the Menasor forearm, he can still achieve a full range of movement. It's a clever solution that we've never seen before.

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:54:27 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> The Combiner Wars version of Motormaster we got in 2015 was a truck cab only. During G1, the truck cab turned into Motormaster's feet. So, not especially satisfying as an update for the character.

Speak for yourself. I think he was a great update for the character, and retaining the swappable limbs made him a lot more fun. He was clearly Motormaster as much as G2 Hero Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime.

As an update for the G1 Motormaster toy and animation model, though... a bit lacking.

> This is the first new version of Motormaster to come with a trailer since G1, not that we've gotten a particularly large assortment of Motormaster toys. He's a third-tier character at best, and it's honestly surprising that such a relatively unsung character has gotten such a big and expensive toy (the Commander class used to be closer to $80 USD but has jumped up to about $100 now).

Is he really unsung? He had a lot of cartoon appearances.

> So, he comes packaged in tractor trailer mode, and there seems to be a disproportionate amount of empty space in the box. Like, he takes up less than a third of the available space, with huge gaps above and below him as well as cardboard stuffed in front of him. He doesn't even take up the full length of the box. The front cab is about 5.5" inches in length, and the total vehicle with trailer is barely 10.75" long. It's a really weirdly proportioned trailer. It's much too small. They did this with Earthrise Optimus Prime, and for some reason they keep doing it. The third party guys don't seem to have this problem. FansProject Diesel and FansToys Road King managed to develop a full-sized trailer, and DX9's Capone arguably has a trailer that's TOO long. But, Hasbro gives us Mostofmaster. Smol truck is smol.

I like the trailer scale here better than with Earthrise Prime, where it just looks like it is scaled wrong.

Motormaster and Laser Optimus have gone from interstate trucks to local delivery trucks -- less impressive, granted, but at least something plausible and real.

> So, to transform the cab, the sides explode, the roof explodes, everything explodes. To retain the integrity of his cartoon look, he has fake miniature truck cab parts with tiny little wheels to serve as his robot feet.

The tiny fake cab parts are so funny. We've had fake kibble before, but this is somehow ridiculous.

> The back of the cab ends up becoming the robot arms, with the trailer hitch and wheel base just sort of swinging up over his head and behind his back, and would you please pretend it's not there. It's the only visible kibble for robot mode, though.

I'm not sure I remember what Motormaster's back was supposed to look like anyway.

> Cartoon Motormaster also deviated from the shape of the toy, which was a rectangle from head to toe. In the show, he had an impossibly T-shaped upper torso and a trapezoidal head assembly. But, somehow they achieved that with the Legacy toy. The only vestigal odd elements are the oversized kneepads (made from the roof of the truck cab) and the duplicate truck grill halves on his shins (there was no real way to hide them). The kneepads aren't quite as much of a train wreck as I had initially thought based on early pictures back in April.

He looks really good. I care a bit less about cartoon fidelity than you do -- even in a toy that is clearly striving for it -- but he looks good. Not perfect, not even great, but really good.

I want to say that the arms look a little thin, and I'm not loving the white on the arms (a color that reads as light gray rather than white would be nice). I would also like the thighs to be dark gray rather than black. Just make the arms seem more like they belong, and add a bit of visual interest to the thighs.

> During G1, Motormaster's toy could also partially unfold into a ramp mode, designed to hold one small Scramble City mini-vehicle. The original idea behind Scramble City was that all four large toys (Silverbolt, Hot Spot, Motormaster, Onslaught) could connect to Metroplex to form a large city, but when Hasbro repurposed two of the team leaders as Decepticons, their connectivity with Metroplex was never advertised. So, unfolding his trailer into a playset isn't unprecedented, though he certainly didn't do this in the G1 cartoon.

It's a more impressive battle station than the recent Laser Optimus battle station. Part of that is the bigger scale, of course, but also it actually has a big honkin' gun.

> The rear top trailer chunk splits into two halves, with a third center piece that becomes the aforementioned gun. The bottom rear trailer chunk, which contains the Menasor fists, also splits in half. Yikes. This is like transforming Omega Supreme for the first time when I was ten years old. So many parts. We're up to seven trailer pieces to keep track of now.

And part of what I like about Combiner Wars is the simplicity of the whole thing. They toys don't disassemble and reassemble.

I don't hate this, but I don't want it to become the standard. Also, Silverbolt would look terrible hauling around a trailer.

> It was something to do with the trailer parts besides have them turn into Menasor body parts, I suppose. The variable nature of a toy like this means I'm sure there are plenty of other potential configurations. Maybe some parts would make good towers for Trypticon, since he desperately needs some.

He has a big gun in the battle station, so it's all good. It doesn't feel quite as half-assed as most battle stations.
> To achieve the Menasor transformation

I felt no urge, not having the other toys it needs.

> Many fans who have acquired Motormaster have reported various parts that have already turned yellow right out of the box, presumably due to a bad batch of plastic. On my toy, the "tongue" on one of the Combiner Wars connectors on Menasor's upper legs is already a dark bronze color. I'm not super happy about it, but you also can't see it in most modes, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. Maybe buy another toy and just keep whichever one looks better.

I've noticed my Earthmode Soundwave and Kingdom Nemesis Prime have yellowing gray parts. If they aren't building toys that last, is it really worth collecting them? The toys seem more transient now, which is a shame given that this is the era where they are actually making toys that are the definitive versions.

I've also noticed my 2007 movie Leader Nightwatch Optimus Prime has his grays in random states of yellowing, but he is 15 years old, and the color scheme is such a dirty mess of muted blues, grays, silvers and flat black that it actually looks good. And he's a definitive version of nothing, just a depressingly colored redeco of another toy. (I assure you that he is great -- imagine if the moral grayness of Movie Optimus was reflected in his color scheme!)
> On the down side, the trailer is almost laughably short. I really strongly dislike this. The handheld gun is not acceptable (this will be solved by third party add-ons in short order, I'm sure), a big chunk is left over when the toy is in Menasor mode, and of course the multiple reports of the toy coming yellowed straight from the factory is a huge concern. That's an unacceptable quality control problem for such an expensive toy. So, in some ways he's great, but he's also got some major flaws that prevent him from being truly excellent.

There's a chunk left over in Menasor mode?

> Even if they venture into doing additional combiner teams a second time, it seems extraordinarily unlikely that the team leaders (Hot Spot, Silverbolt, Onslaught) would be Commander-class. The characters just aren't bulky enough. I think Leader-class is far more likely, with the individual, smaller Protectobots and Aerialbots and Combaticons forming the arms and legs in their entirety, rather than attaching to a framework like they've done here.. But, that's assuming we see additional combiner teams in any form at all.

If they any more teams, I hope they go with CW style connectors, and just focus on making more varied toys that better match the characters. And Leaders for the torso bots, as the Voyagers in CW were often a bit spindley. Honestly, I would be happy if they just did Monstructor, and maybe redid the Seacons or Technobots as those remolds weren't great.

> Zob (off to order a second Motormaster now, I guess)

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 2:37:00 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> As an update for the G1 Motormaster toy and animation model, though... a bit lacking.

That's really what I meant, of course. But even back in 2015, the lack of a trailer really bothered me.

> Is he really unsung? He had a lot of cartoon appearances.

I think the top-tier characters are ones that people have heard of even if they're not fans and have never watched an episode of the G1 cartoon. People know who Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are in the same way everybody knows who Spider-Man or Spongebob Squarepants is. Then you have the second-tier characters who you become familiar with as a casual fan. Lots of people can identify Ironhide or Jazz or Laserbeak or Galvatron on sight even without being well-versed Transformers scholars.

But, Motormaster is not a well-known character. If you can only name ten or twenty Transformers, Motormaster is probably not going to be one of them. He's significant in that he's part of Menasor, and the super robot combiners as a whole tend to get elevated to a certain level of importance simply by merit of being a combiner, but Menasor isn't even as instantly recognizable to people as Devastator or Predaking.

Remember when Combiner Wars first came out, and it was kind of a shock that Hasbro was actually addressing characters like the Aerialbots and Stunticons, because up to that point most of the G1 updates had been focusing on core characters like Optimus and Megatron and Starscream and Bumblebee? I'm feeling like this again, because it's exceptionally odd for a character like Motormaster to get a do-over. It almot potentially means that anybody could get a do-over. And, I'll be the first to admit that, if we're using the current focus on scale and screen accuracy as a metic, then the early Combiner Wars toys are no longer acceptable. Even some of the Titans Return characters could stand to be redone.

I'm excited about the idea of getting a cartoon-accurate Swindle or First Aid out of all this some day.

> Motormaster and Laser Optimus have gone from interstate trucks to local delivery trucks -- less impressive, granted, but at least something plausible and real.

So he's gone from being King of the Road to being Duke of the Road, perhaps, or Earl of the Road.

> I'm not sure I remember what Motormaster's back was supposed to look like anyway.

On the G1 toy, it was just the underside of the truck, so it had wheels and stuff. In the cartoon, they just made up rear-view designs for all the Scramble City guys, so you ended up with impossible things like the Aerialbots carrying their entire jet modes on their backs. Motormaster's rear view design in the show was just a copy of his front side, with that T-shaped border and then random greeblies on his back. Not very remarkable.

> He looks really good. I care a bit less about cartoon fidelity than you do -- even in a toy that is clearly striving for it -- but he looks good. Not perfect, not even great, but really good.

Now, the big question... would you buy this toy again in G2 colors? Because you just know they're going to have to amortize the development costs somehow.

> It's a more impressive battle station than the recent Laser Optimus battle station. Part of that is the bigger scale, of course, but also it actually has a big honkin' gun.

I can imagine Motormaster and Laser Optimus having a duel, hiding behind their respective battle stations and pitching snowballs at each other...
> I don't hate this, but I don't want it to become the standard. Also, Silverbolt would look terrible hauling around a trailer.

They could reimagine Silverbolt being something in the same vein as Sky Lynx, with the aerial component just hauling around a big undercarriage box. Then they separate, and the box unfolds into a battle station while the jet piece turns into a robot.

....I'm not saying I actually want this. Hasbro, please don't do this.
> I felt no urge, not having the other toys it needs.

It's completely sensible to wait for the other Stunticons. The funny thing, of course, is that you don't actually *need* the other Stunticons at all. Motormaster himself can transform into a fully functional and poseable Menasor. (I just realized they even show Naked Menasor on the side panel of Motormaster's box.)

> I've noticed my Earthmode Soundwave and Kingdom Nemesis Prime have yellowing gray parts. If they aren't building toys that last, is it really worth collecting them? The toys seem more transient now, which is a shame given that this is the era where they are actually making toys that are the definitive versions.

And that's the real tragedy about all this. They're doing some of the best versions of the characters that they've ever done. I feel like they finally got Galvatron and Cyclonus and Scourge right, after what felt like years and years of weird tank-spider things and V-shaped flying wing things. I'll buy Masterpiece versions of them if Takara ever does them, but it's difficult for me to envision a scenario in which they sell a Scourge at domestic retail that can replace the Studio Series version or a Galvatron that's better than the Kingdom/Legacy version.

But, they've got to get this yellowing plastic thing under control. It's just awful.
> I've also noticed my 2007 movie Leader Nightwatch Optimus Prime has his grays in random states of yellowing, but he is 15 years old

That's still unacceptable. I've got a bunch of G1 toys on a shelf from 1984 and none of them are yellowing, and they're over twice that old. Unless you're leaving a toy to bake out in the sun every day, toys shouldn't turn yellow on their own.

> There's a chunk left over in Menasor mode?

Yes, the center tower for the battle station remains unused. Dave Van Domelen came up with a Buzz Lightyear style wing pack for Menasor that uses it, but it's realistically the only way you can mount that piece on the toy. But, it doesn't make a bad free-standing weapon for somebody else who is shorter than Menasor to use. It reminds me a little of the transfixatron from "The Autobot Run."

> If they any more teams, I hope they go with CW style connectors, and just focus on making more varied toys that better match the characters. And Leaders for the torso bots, as the Voyagers in CW were often a bit spindley. Honestly, I would be happy if they just did Monstructor, and maybe redid the Seacons or Technobots as those remolds weren't great.

Yes, Leader-class torsos for the win. Motormaster was kind of a special case because a cab-and-trailer needs to be quite big. But, I don't think Onslaught or Hot Spot or Silverbolt need to be that large.

The Takara versions of the Technobots were marginally better than the Hasbro editions. (Wheeljack as Lightspeed was okay. Streetwise as Lightspeed is just ridiculous.) I wonder if the Technobots are important enough characters to warrant another go.

Seacons would be great. I spent way too much on Overbite to complete the team, but I would still support better, more accurate versions that weren't just Terrorcons with sea creature parts tacked on. Snaptrap is probably the shittiest toy Takara has ever tried to sell us. He's so woefully, devastatingly, cripplingly bad.

And, yes, we desperately need Monstructor. They must have been planning to redo the PotP Dinobots as the Monster Pretenders (Snarl was shown one year at Toy Fair with a Bristleback gun, and we know Cutthroat was wearing a Wildfly head at one point) but obviously that never materialized. I imagine they've been debating how to handle the fact that the characters are Pretenders. That seems to be a real stumbling block for them, for some reason.

Zob (Preteeeeeeenders hide the Transfoooooooormers inside!)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 2:37:00 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> But, Motormaster is not a well-known character. If you can only name ten
> or twenty Transformers, Motormaster is probably not going to be one of
> them. He's significant in that he's part of Menasor, and the super robot
> combiners as a whole tend to get elevated to a certain level of
> importance simply by merit of being a combiner, but Menasor isn't even as
> instantly recognizable to people as Devastator or Predaking.

“The Decepticon Cars” is way more notable than “The Decepticon Animals”.
They are an also ran the “The Autobot Planes” but only in so much as you
remember the planes and then think “oh, right, the Decepticons had some
cars”

> Remember when Combiner Wars first came out, and it was kind of a shock
> that Hasbro was actually addressing characters like the Aerialbots and
> Stunticons, because up to that point most of the G1 updates had been
> focusing on core characters like Optimus and Megatron and Starscream and Bumblebee?

I thought they were avoiding them because they didn’t know what to do about
the combining. We were getting toys like Straxus before them.

>> He looks really good. I care a bit less about cartoon fidelity than you
>> do -- even in a toy that is clearly striving for it -- but he looks
>> good. Not perfect, not even great, but really good.
>
> Now, the big question... would you buy this toy again in G2 colors?
> Because you just know they're going to have to amortize the development costs somehow.

I think so. Not 100% sure, ask me when the Stunticons are done.
>> I've also noticed my 2007 movie Leader Nightwatch Optimus Prime has his
>> grays in random states of yellowing, but he is 15 years old
>
> That's still unacceptable. I've got a bunch of G1 toys on a shelf from
> 1984 and none of them are yellowing, and they're over twice that old.
> Unless you're leaving a toy to bake out in the sun every day, toys
> shouldn't turn yellow on their own.

He was open display for years, and it shows in patterns of where the more
susceptible plastics have yellowed. Ideally, he wouldn’t have yellowed, but
it’s not terrible.

> The Takara versions of the Technobots were marginally better than the
> Hasbro editions. (Wheeljack as Lightspeed was okay. Streetwise as
> Lightspeed is just ridiculous.) I wonder if the Technobots are important
> enough characters to warrant another go.

I’m 50-50 on the Technobots. The Takara versions are often more accurate in
vehicle mode, but do so with ridiculous amounts of new kibble. Hasbro
Strafe is a better toy, even if Takara Strafe is a better Strafe.

> Seacons would be great. I spent way too much on Overbite to complete the
> team, but I would still support better, more accurate versions that
> weren't just Terrorcons with sea creature parts tacked on. Snaptrap is
> probably the shittiest toy Takara has ever tried to sell us. He's so
> woefully, devastatingly, cripplingly bad.
>
> And, yes, we desperately need Monstructor. They must have been planning
> to redo the PotP Dinobots as the Monster Pretenders (Snarl was shown one
> year at Toy Fair with a Bristleback gun, and we know Cutthroat was
> wearing a Wildfly head at one point) but obviously that never
> materialized. I imagine they've been debating how to handle the fact
> that the characters are Pretenders. That seems to be a real stumbling
> block for them, for some reason.

Dinoking would be fine. Dinoking colored like Monstructor would be fine.

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:18:42 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> “The Decepticon Cars” is way more notable than “The Decepticon Animals”.

I mean, I'm deeply familiar with G1 so obviously this isn't my perspective. But I imagine your average fan, on the outside looking in, has not been clamoring for a super expensive version of Motormaster. I could be wrong. But my perception of the average fan is that they're far more aware of characters from 1984-85, and then whatever show/toys they personally grew up on.. (There are people on the message boards who are super excited about Velocitron Override, because their first Transformers toy was Cybertron Override. It's unfathomable to me that there are fans who were introduced to Transformers starting with Cybertron, but here we are.)

My perception is that Predaking is more memorable because his toy was objectively cooler and he was given an on-screen focus for a greater period of time (basically all of season three, instead of just the tail end of season two for Menasor). But, I could be wrong.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. I had previously thought that Hasbro was only willing to commit to the lesser-known characters if they could reuse tons of parts and occasionally slip us a completely inappropriate redeco. You know, like Titans Return Brainstorm being a recycled Blurr or Getaway being a bad Chromedome redeco. The fact that Motormaster exists gives me a lot of hope for the future. He's not just a recycled Optimus Prime—he's his own toy, and remarkably authentic. Aside from selling it in G2 colors, there aren't too many obvious ways they can sell the toy to consumers a second time.

Suddenly, a very large Commander-class Broadside doesn't seem completely outside the realm of possibility. Nothing feels like it's off-limits or is a complete pipe dream. Honestly, I need to reevaluate how I look at Transformers now. They're delving into lesser-known characters in the same way that NECA is doing action figures of Ninja Turtles characters that lots of people don't even remember. They release a Wingnut and Screwloose set and half the people on Reddit are going, "Wait, when were Wingnut and Screwloose even in the cartoon?"

If there is a market for NECA Ninja Turtles toys based on characters who pop up in a single cartoon episode, then by that same logic, there is definitely a market for new Transformers toys based on characters who actually got a substantial market push and appeared in (checks notes) fourteen entire episodes.

> I think so. Not 100% sure, ask me when the Stunticons are done.

A set of G2 Stunticons will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $200. (Also, a set of G2 Dinobots, assuming they do redeco versions of all five Leader-class toys, will cost something like $275. Just let that sink in.)

> I’m 50-50 on the Technobots. The Takara versions are often more accurate in
> vehicle mode, but do so with ridiculous amounts of new kibble. Hasbro
> Strafe is a better toy, even if Takara Strafe is a better Strafe.

Way too much orange. I can't accept that as Strafe. Bring on the new Technobots!

Zob (and this is how Hasbro manages to milk us all dry)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:18:42 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> “The Decepticon Cars” is way more notable than “The Decepticon Animals”.
>
> I mean, I'm deeply familiar with G1 so obviously this isn't my
> perspective. But I imagine your average fan, on the outside looking in,
> has not been clamoring for a super expensive version of Motormaster. I
> could be wrong. But my perception of the average fan is that they're far
> more aware of characters from 1984-85, and then whatever show/toys they
> personally grew up on. (There are people on the message boards who are
> super excited about Velocitron Override, because their first Transformers
> toy was Cybertron Override. It's unfathomable to me that there are fans
> who were introduced to Transformers starting with Cybertron, but here we are.)

I think we can rule out there being any Transformers fans that started with
Energon though!

(Ok, there were some fun toys in the line, and the cartoon had a strong
start before fading quickly into a blur)

> My perception is that Predaking is more memorable because his toy was
> objectively cooler and he was given an on-screen focus for a greater
> period of time (basically all of season three, instead of just the tail
> end of season two for Menasor). But, I could be wrong.

I think s1-2 got a lot more repeat showings over the years.

And the Predacons didn’t have much in the way of characterization, while
the Stunticons were basically evil versions of Autobots. There’s no 1-1
mapping, but they are presented in quick broad strokes as inversions of
typical Autobot personalities.

But fuller personalities than most of the Decepticons. (Does Thundercracker
or Astrotrain have a personality?)

It makes them leap out and stay memorable even if you can’t remember them
well.

> Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is a bad thing by any
> stretch of the imagination. I had previously thought that Hasbro was
> only willing to commit to the lesser-known characters if they could reuse
> tons of parts and occasionally slip us a completely inappropriate redeco.
> You know, like Titans Return Brainstorm being a recycled Blurr or
> Getaway being a bad Chromedome redeco.

It it bad that I like both of those toys? I love that the Blurrmobile that
Blurr transforms into is apparently a modular design that comes in land,
sea and space variants. And I never really knew of Breakaway, so this was
my first toy of him… and he has basically the personality and function of
Scott Free, aka Mr. Miracle from the Jack Kirby created New Gods from DC
comics. He’s missing a Big Barda analogue.

> The fact that Motormaster exists gives me a lot of hope for the future.
> He's not just a recycled Optimus Prime—he's his own toy, and remarkably
> authentic. Aside from selling it in G2 colors, there aren't too many
> obvious ways they can sell the toy to consumers a second time.

I think the Commanders are budgeted as single use molds. Rodimus Prime and
Sky Lynx haven’t gotten reused. And Jetfire just got a Shattered Glass toy.

Random aside: a search for shattered glass Sky Lynx led me down a shallow
rabbit hole to this:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/generations-combiner-wars/sky-lynx/3942/1/77/

That is amazing. And adorable. And not SG SL.

> Suddenly, a very large Commander-class Broadside doesn't seem completely
> outside the realm of possibility. Nothing feels like it's off-limits or
> is a complete pipe dream. Honestly, I need to reevaluate how I look at Transformers now.

If Cybertron Metroplex can be a Titan…

>> I think so. Not 100% sure, ask me when the Stunticons are done.
>
> A set of G2 Stunticons will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $200.
> (Also, a set of G2 Dinobots, assuming they do redeco versions of all five
> Leader-class toys, will cost something like $275. Just let that sink in.)

It’s a lot. And they take up a lot of space.

>> I’m 50-50 on the Technobots. The Takara versions are often more accurate in
>> vehicle mode, but do so with ridiculous amounts of new kibble. Hasbro
>> Strafe is a better toy, even if Takara Strafe is a better Strafe.
>
> Way too much orange. I can't accept that as Strafe. Bring on the new Technobots!

Scattershot is the weakest in both Hasbro and Takara versions. I just don’t
buy The vehicle mode… and I like the Cyclonus they made from that mold.
(Cyclonus holds his little fins in his hands in vehicle mode, it’s
adorable)

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:39:12 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> And the Predacons didn’t have much in the way of characterization, while
> the Stunticons were basically evil versions of Autobots. There’s no 1-1
> mapping, but they are presented in quick broad strokes as inversions of
> typical Autobot personalities.

Sunstreaker: "Hey, everybody, I'm awesome! Look at me!"
Breakdown: "Stop staring at me! Go away!"

Yup.

> I think the Commanders are budgeted as single use molds. Rodimus Prime and
> Sky Lynx haven’t gotten reused. And Jetfire just got a Shattered Glass toy.

You could be right. Though, when it comes to characters without a lot of redeco potential, their sales plan is just to trot out the toys a second time. Titan-class Omega Supreme and Commander-class Skyfire got a second production run in their original colors, which is more like what they did during the G1 days. I wouldn't be shocked if Rodimus Prime or Sky Lynx gets a restock on Hasbro Pulse at some point.
> If Cybertron Metroplex can be a Titan…

Yes, exactly. Anything is possible at this point. And Metroplex reportedly sold well. I'm not sure why, exactly, but I'm glad that he did.

> Scattershot is the weakest in both Hasbro and Takara versions.

An effort was made. Scattershot is the only Combiner Wars Technobot of which I have both the Hasbro and Takara versions, and neither is great.

Zob (people on Reddit are still joking about every new toy ever being a Combiner Wars Silverbolt retool)

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:43:06 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> But my perception of the average fan is that they're far more aware of characters from 1984-85, and then whatever show/toys they personally grew up on....

> ...My perception is that Predaking is more memorable because his toy was objectively cooler and he was given an on-screen focus for a greater period of time (basically all of season three, instead of just the tail end of season two for Menasor). But, I could be wrong.

I just wanna squeeze in here and point out that Motormaster falls right into the '84-'85 character definition by way of its season 2 introduction and also the appearance of the Menasor giftset on the shelves in '85. And showing up in the tail end of the most popular season is no small feat. Those episodes got rerun constantly until the less popular season 3 hit. So the Stunticons were in the show at the peak of the franchise's popularity in '85, with all the playground buzz of a hot new toy that was hitting during the Christmas season. As opposed to Predaking who was the king combiner of a show fewer people were watching. And like what did Predaking do anyway. He's the Boba Fett of fusilateral quintrocombiners.

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 1:06:34 PM UTC-6, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> So the Stunticons were in the show at the peak of the franchise's popularity in '85, with all the playground buzz of a hot new toy that was hitting during the Christmas season. As opposed to Predaking who was the king combiner of a show fewer people were watching. And like what did Predaking do anyway. He's the Boba Fett of fusilateral quintrocombiners.

Predaking was the biggest combiner toy during G1. Each of the Predacons was actually the size of a regular Transformers toy instead of the almost-Minibots who formed the arms and legs of the other combiners.

Also, during the 2003 Trannies awards (the last year, I believe, that Rob Jung hosted them) Predaking got 168 votes for the best combiner, versus 83 votes for Menasor. (Devastator came in at the top spot with 298 votes.) So, the Stunticons were considered pretty cool by the fandom, but not nearly as cool as the Predacons. I don't know how much opinions have changed in the last two decades.

But, I will retract my statement about the Stunticons not being particularly notable, because people here clearly seem to think that they are. To me, Menasor was probably the worst of the Scramble City combiners. Everybody else is objectively cooler in some way, at least in my view. But, somebody's got to be on the bottom of the totem pole, I suppose. Doesn't mean I hate Menasor. I just like a lot of the other guys better.

Zob (c'est la vroom)

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 10:01:32 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> Predaking was the biggest combiner toy during G1. Each of the Predacons was actually the size of a regular Transformers toy instead of the almost-Minibots who formed the arms and legs of the other combiners.

Yes he was definitely big and beautiful and legendary for being so-but I wonder how many kids ever actually completed Predaking? How many owned it enough to burn into enough collective heads of the fandom an awareness of the characters? Given the higher price point of each member compared to the mini teams guys and the lack of a Predaking giftset, I think the reputation of the figure is largely built on how cool it must have been to have one instead of actual hands on experience. I remember for the longest time one of the rarest accessories was Predaking's left fist for some unfathomable reason. But if you think about it, that seems indicative of not everyone getting a Divebomb back in the day. Then those that did lost the hand and the secondary market had more Divebombs without PK fists than with them. Like Boba Fett I find Predaking's popularity attributable to its looks but little else. I'm thinking comparatively few people had all of the Predacons. it's probably the second rarest G1 combiner next to Monstructor.

It is interesting to me that Hasbro decided not to release the individual Predacons during PotP or whenever it was that the recent giftset came out. I wonder if that was because they figured the individual team members wouldn't sell. But they turned around and released Studio Series Devastator individually in multiple size classes so who knows why they do what they do.

> Also, during the 2003 Trannies awards (the last year, I believe, that Rob Jung hosted them) Predaking got 168 votes for the best combiner, versus 83 votes for Menasor. (Devastator came in at the top spot with 298 votes.) So, the Stunticons were considered pretty cool by the fandom, but not nearly as cool as the Predacons. I don't know how much opinions have changed in the last two decades.

The G2 Stunticons sort of have a mystique around them because of Breakdown's affiliation with Botcon and the rest of the team being mostly unreleased. So I would guess casual fandom awareness of the Stunticons is a little higher than that of the Predacons. But Predaking is known by everyone. So while everyone knows who Breakdown and Predaking are, I would bet not everyone can name the other members of either team and Menasor.

> But, I will retract my statement about the Stunticons not being particularly notable, because people here clearly seem to think that they are. To me, Menasor was probably the worst of the Scramble City combiners. Everybody else is objectively cooler in some way, at least in my view. But, somebody's got to be on the bottom of the totem pole, I suppose. Doesn't mean I hate Menasor. I just like a lot of the other guys better.

I hate Menasor, or at least it has never been done in a way that I would like it. The original is the worst Scramble City combiner easily, and I never liked it as a kid. When I saw pics online of Legacy Wildrider connected to Menasor's arm I instantly became unsold on collecting the team. It looks terrible. But the team is definitely notable and recognizable and apparently bankable in Hasbro's eyes.

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 2:54:27 PM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:

> On my toy, the "tongue" on one of the Combiner Wars connectors on Menasor's upper legs is already a dark bronze color. I'm not super happy about it, but you also can't see it in most modes, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. Maybe buy another toy and just keep whichever one looks better.

Got my replacement from Amazon today. Much better. No yellow parts.

Seems like I keep having to replace my Motormasters. The last one I got was the Combiner Wars toy in G2 colors, and I had to exchange that set because Motormaster was missing his robot head. (And then Toys "R" Us put the defective set right back on the shelf, because they were geniuses. No wonder they closed down!)

Zob (I've read they're making a comeback, though)

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 11:36:56 PM UTC-6, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes he was definitely big and beautiful and legendary for being so-but I wonder how many kids ever actually completed Predaking?

I would venture probably not as many as the kids who completed Devastator. A Constructicon was a much more affordable purchase than a Predacon. Even with there being six pieces to Devastator versus five for Predaking, Devastator was far more attainable.

> I'm thinking comparatively few people had all of the Predacons. it's probably the second rarest G1 combiner next to Monstructor.

I remember looking at the Pretender Monsters at Kmart, and being positively miffed by how small the individual members were. When I saw the Monstructor head packaged with Slog and realized it was only the size of a regular Transformer's head, I noped out of the notion of buying any of them. And, up to that point, I had very dilligently been collecting almost all the combiners—as a kid, I had a complete Devastator, Bruticus, Menasor, Defensor, Computron, and Abominus.

I sure wish I could go back and undo some of the decisions I made as a youngster. But, 20/20 hindsight and all that.

> It is interesting to me that Hasbro decided not to release the individual Predacons during PotP or whenever it was that the recent giftset came out. I wonder if that was because they figured the individual team members wouldn't sell.

To be honest, the new Tantrum and Headstrong are singularly unimpressive toys on their own. Turning into the legs of a large and impressive Predaking is just about the only thing they've got going for them.

> The G2 Stunticons sort of have a mystique around them because of Breakdown's affiliation with Botcon and the rest of the team being mostly unreleased. So I would guess casual fandom awareness of the Stunticons is a little higher than that of the Predacons. But Predaking is known by everyone. So while everyone knows who Breakdown and Predaking are, I would bet not everyone can name the other members of either team and Menasor.
> > But, I will retract my statement about the Stunticons not being particularly notable, because people here clearly seem to think that they are. To me, Menasor was probably the worst of the Scramble City combiners. Everybody else is objectively cooler in some way, at least in my view. But, somebody's got to be on the bottom of the totem pole, I suppose. Doesn't mean I hate Menasor. I just like a lot of the other guys better.

> I hate Menasor, or at least it has never been done in a way that I would like it. The original is the worst Scramble City combiner easily, and I never liked it as a kid.

One design decision I've never entirely agreed with is how they tend to downplay the idea that these giant robots are made up of car parts and jet parts. I mean, when you look at the cartoon model for somebody like Gears, there's zero evidence from his robot design that he even turns into anything. The best-looking Transformers are, in my opinion, ones who incorporate vehicle parts into their robot designs in a way that's aesthetically pleasing.. Jazz having a car hood and headlights for a chest, for example, is perfect. It strongly visually communicates "I used to be a car, but now I'm something much more." Deciding not to draw the car wheels on the shoulders for Bluestreak or Sideswipe or Cliffjumper did them a huge disservice.

With that in mind, I don't like Menasor's design because it minimalizes much of that visual car-to-robot look. With Motormaster's truck cab pieces tucked away, the body just looks like a big, rectangular brick. Also, with the car details on Menasor's legs facing backwards, his legs look pretty generic from the front. Only the arms give any visual clue that he's made up of a bunch of cars. The toys should have been designed so that the car parts formed the fronts of his legs. They got it right in the toy commercial, which showed a different Menasor design. Even if it wasn't toy-accurate, it made for a much better-looking Menasor.

One of the best toys that visually communicates the car-to-robot idea was the Tonka GoBots Puzzler. Every piece of him screams "I'm made out of car parts." The arms, the body, the legs, all of it. He's a walking junkyard nightmare, and I love him for that.

Zob (the air conditioner at the condo lasted me for 17 years with no problems, but one summer at the new house was all it took for the A/C to freeze up like a big, whiny baby)

I spent a lot of time today transforming this toy into all of his various modes back and forth, including his base mode and his menasor mode - at least an hour. I am actually impressed with the engineering that went into this toy. Both his truck, trailer, and Motormaster modes are excellent. I suppose you could argue his trailer is a bit short, but I don't think it's too noticeable. Besides, at least he finally has a trailer again. I especially liked the stand that flips down for when the trailer isn't being towed - nice touch Hasbro! (I suppose one day we will actually get a two trailer version of Motormaster?). The quality of this toy is incredible. His trailer is an absolute brick, you could easily break a window with it. I have always loved a good minibase mode. I think growing up, my motormaster spent 90% of his life in this mode. The bonus here is you can have his base mode operational and still have a Motormaster figure to lay with. Finally, how about that Menasor figure. I think they finally perfected the Gestault connectors. Everything snaps and is fully articulated. I also think each limb has a specific interface to the car, so there is no more trying to remember which limb goes where (so much for MOSA) - Dragstrip only fits on his right arm.

The only real negative here for me is that he is not easy to transform, and will be very difficult to master all of his various modes without instructions. He's definitely a bit of a partsformer. Yes, he is incredibly expensive. However, I don't think anyone can accuse Hasbro of cost cutting here, this toy is really an engineering marvel. It must have taken a lot of design hours to come up with this puzzle.

-Banzaitron

On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 9:10:25 PM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> Both his truck, trailer, and Motormaster modes are excellent. I suppose you could argue his trailer is a bit short, but I don't think it's too
noticeable.

It bothers me. Given that the length of the trailer seems to directly inform the length of the Menasor arms and legs, I guess I can kind of see why they did what they did. It's that middle trailer chunk that seems to mess everything up. It just needed to be longer.

I think it would be possible for a third party to come up with some sort of booster section for the middle chunk of the trailer that would extend its length. I mean, they do leg extensions for so many toys already, so why not trailer extensions? And the existing middle chunk is already left over in Menasor mode, so another extra chunk left behind wouldn't really any new problems that didn't exist already.

Either that, or maybe what he really needs is a faux extension for the front of the trailer to hide the Menasor connector joints and things. Something that looks a little more like the front of a real truck trailer. Bonus points if it includes an asymmetrical quantity of fake connector pegs on top!

> The only real negative here for me is that he is not easy to transform, and will be very difficult to master all of his various modes without instructions. He's definitely a bit of a partsformer. Yes, he is incredibly expensive. However, I don't think anyone can accuse Hasbro of cost cutting here, this toy is really an engineering marvel. It must have taken a lot of design hours to come up with this puzzle.

It's such a departure from the G1 Motormaster toy, who was just a rectangular, box-shaped vehicle who turned into a rectangular, box-shaped robot. They did a really good job.

Zob (excited to see what Breakdown actually looks like)