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arts / alt.history.what-if / The Tzar lasts

SubjectAuthor
* The Tzar lastsSolomonW
`* Re: The Tzar lastsLouis Epstein
 `* Re: The Tzar lastsSolomonW
  `* Re: The Tzar lastsDimensional Traveler
   `- Re: The Tzar lastsSolomonW

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The Tzar lasts

<fuqmjoe5ehhv.1nsh13ti7x3ic$.dlg@40tude.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=6797&group=alt.history.what-if#6797

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: The Tzar lasts
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 01:04:04 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
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 by: SolomonW - Sat, 7 Aug 2021 15:04 UTC

In Feb 1917, the Tzarist regime collapsed after regiment after regiment of
the Petrograd garrison defected to the demonstrators' cause.

Part of this
is because the garrison at Petrograd was composed of many untrained men,
mostly ex-factory workers from Petrograd and the local area, so they became
politically infected too.

If the garrison had come from all over Russia,
been higher paid, under loyalist officers, they would have crushed the
riots.

The tzar would have survived Feb 1917.

Re: The Tzar lasts

<semo3l$n4b$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: le...@top.put.com (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: The Tzar lasts
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 19:49:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 7 Aug 2021 19:49 UTC

SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>
> In Feb 1917, the Tzarist regime collapsed after regiment after regiment of
> the Petrograd garrison defected to the demonstrators' cause.
>
> Part of this
> is because the garrison at Petrograd was composed of many untrained men,
> mostly ex-factory workers from Petrograd and the local area, so they became
> politically infected too.
>
> If the garrison had come from all over Russia,
> been higher paid, under loyalist officers, they would have crushed the
> riots.
>
>
>
> The tzar would have survived Feb 1917.

So what effect would this have had on World War I?
Would the officers defending Petrograd have been taken
away from commands in the field?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: The Tzar lasts

<1bbt0fsqtxh0t.178kq6yvjhjk6.dlg@40tude.net>

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: The Tzar lasts
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 21:09:06 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
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 by: SolomonW - Sun, 8 Aug 2021 11:09 UTC

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 19:49:09 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein wrote:

> SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>
>> In Feb 1917, the Tzarist regime collapsed after regiment after regiment of
>> the Petrograd garrison defected to the demonstrators' cause.
>>
>> Part of this
>> is because the garrison at Petrograd was composed of many untrained men,
>> mostly ex-factory workers from Petrograd and the local area, so they became
>> politically infected too.
>>
>> If the garrison had come from all over Russia,
>> been higher paid, under loyalist officers, they would have crushed the
>> riots.
>>
>>
>>
>> The tzar would have survived Feb 1917.
>
> So what effect would this have had on World War I?

Well, if the Tzar survives, Russia did not collapse in 1917. There is no
prospect of a German victory in 1918, no unrestricted submarine warfare,
and no US entry into the war.

> Would the officers defending Petrograd have been taken
> away from commands in the field?

Such officers are not used on the front.

>
> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: The Tzar lasts

<seovq9$1jm$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: The Tzar lasts
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 09:12:57 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 8 Aug 2021 16:12 UTC

On 8/8/2021 4:09 AM, SolomonW wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 19:49:09 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein wrote:
>
>> SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In Feb 1917, the Tzarist regime collapsed after regiment after regiment of
>>> the Petrograd garrison defected to the demonstrators' cause.
>>>
>>> Part of this
>>> is because the garrison at Petrograd was composed of many untrained men,
>>> mostly ex-factory workers from Petrograd and the local area, so they became
>>> politically infected too.
>>>
>>> If the garrison had come from all over Russia,
>>> been higher paid, under loyalist officers, they would have crushed the
>>> riots.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The tzar would have survived Feb 1917.
>>
>> So what effect would this have had on World War I?
>
> Well, if the Tzar survives, Russia did not collapse in 1917. There is no
> prospect of a German victory in 1918, no unrestricted submarine warfare,
> and no US entry into the war.
>
"Russia does not collapse in 1917". I'm not sure you can state that
with absolute confidence. The main reason for the Petrograd uprising
was Russia getting its ass severely kicked by the Germans and suffering
massive casualties in the process. Maybe it delays a Russian collapse
but preventing it is not a certainty.

As for no US entry into the war, if Germany is still having to fight on
two fronts there is even more incentive for them to resume unrestricted
submarine warfare and thereby drawing the US into the war.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

Re: The Tzar lasts

<bwvicwp8hxp4.x3czjtio52j5.dlg@40tude.net>

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if
Subject: Re: The Tzar lasts
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 19:19:15 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
Lines: 51
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References: <fuqmjoe5ehhv.1nsh13ti7x3ic$.dlg@40tude.net> <semo3l$n4b$1@reader1.panix.com> <1bbt0fsqtxh0t.178kq6yvjhjk6.dlg@40tude.net> <seovq9$1jm$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: SolomonW - Mon, 9 Aug 2021 09:19 UTC

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 09:12:57 -0700, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

> On 8/8/2021 4:09 AM, SolomonW wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 19:49:09 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein wrote:
>>
>>> SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In Feb 1917, the Tzarist regime collapsed after regiment after regiment of
>>>> the Petrograd garrison defected to the demonstrators' cause.
>>>>
>>>> Part of this
>>>> is because the garrison at Petrograd was composed of many untrained men,
>>>> mostly ex-factory workers from Petrograd and the local area, so they became
>>>> politically infected too.
>>>>
>>>> If the garrison had come from all over Russia,
>>>> been higher paid, under loyalist officers, they would have crushed the
>>>> riots.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tzar would have survived Feb 1917.
>>>
>>> So what effect would this have had on World War I?
>>
>> Well, if the Tzar survives, Russia did not collapse in 1917. There is no
>> prospect of a German victory in 1918, no unrestricted submarine warfare,
>> and no US entry into the war.
>>
> "Russia does not collapse in 1917". I'm not sure you can state that
> with absolute confidence. The main reason for the Petrograd uprising
> was Russia getting its ass severely kicked by the Germans and suffering
> massive casualties in the process.

Food shortages

> Maybe it delays a Russian collapse
> but preventing it is not a certainty.

The performance of the Russian army was excellent then. It had just done
the Brusilov Offensive, which is considered the most outstanding Russian
victory of WW1. The Russian generals were looking forward to 1917.

>
> As for no US entry into the war, if Germany is still having to fight on
> two fronts there is even more incentive for them to resume unrestricted
> submarine warfare and thereby drawing the US into the war.

Drawing the US into the war with Russia in the war is suicide.

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