https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-history.html

"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a
garden, chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical
behavior for their group of data scientists, apparently.when he
mentioned that Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if
only they could find a large enough data set. According to
Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a statistician who teaches at
Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were off."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
history.html
>
> "The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
> chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
> their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
> Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
> large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
> statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
> off."

This is what happens if one makes a joke -- and really,
Godwin must have been joking -- that's also a testable
hypothesis. It generates interesting research. Now I need the
time to read the study. This leads to Packer's rule: By the time
one is ready to join a thread intelligently, interest in it has
approached zero.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
>>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
history.html
>>
>>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
>>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
>>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
>>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
>>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
>>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
>>off."
>
> It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
> performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
> "fascist" to the mix.

This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously
makes sense only for the Usenet generation.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> > wrote:
> >
> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
> history.html
> >>
> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
> >>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
> >>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
> >>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
> >>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
> >>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
> >>off."
> >
> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
> > performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
> > "fascist" to the mix.
> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
> article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
> generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
> the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously
> makes sense only for the Usenet generation.
Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of the hits was complaining about such references - https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/

More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in use in areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has been forgotten - though the first hit I get searching for that is a slightly different story - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKBN15R0OL

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:11:00 +0000, Charles Packer wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
> history.html
>>>
>>>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
>>>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
>>>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
>>>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
>>>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
>>>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they
>>>were off."
>>
>> It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
>> performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
>> "fascist" to the mix.
>
> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate article.
> Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger generation.
> There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger the emotional
> reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously makes sense
> only for the Usenet generation.

I disagree. According to reddit and twitter there are more Nazi's
running around now then there were in WWII.

On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 22:09:16 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer wrote:
> >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
> >> history.html
> >> >>
> >> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
> >> >>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
> >> >>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
> >> >>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
> >> >>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
> >> >>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
> >> >>off."
> >> >
> >> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
> >> > performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
> >> > "fascist" to the mix.
> >> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
> >> article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
> >> generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
> >> the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously
> >> makes sense only for the Usenet generation.
> >Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of the hits was complaining about such references - https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
> >
> >More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in use in areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has been forgotten - though the first hit I get searching for that is a slightly different story - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKBN15R0OL
> If they don't want people to think that that song is their national
> anthem maybe they should make a different song their national anthem.
>
> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> country.

Spoken like a merkin. I think that people living in Pakistan
are very rarely called "Paki": I may be mistaken.

Wikipedia:

"The name Pakistan means literally "a land abounding in the pure"
or "a land in which the pure abound", in Urdu and Persian. It
references the word پاک (pāk), meaning "pure" in Persian and
Pashto.[23] The suffix ـستان (transliterated in English as -stan)
is from Persian, and means "a place abounding in"[24] or
"a place where anything abounds".[25]

"The name of the country was coined in 1933 by
Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who
published it in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym
("thirty million Muslim brethren who live in PAKISTAN"),[26] and
referring to the names of the five northern regions of the
British Raj: Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and Baluchistan.[26"

I hope "pure" doesn't mean race, but you know what happened.
(If you don't, look it up.)

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:u0u8vgp8f8elgg6hf94dft5ukdj1uu8fsg@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:10:07 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 22:09:16 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer
>>> >wrote:
>>> >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com
>>> >> > (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-
>>> >> >>disproven-
>>> >> history.html
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues
>>> >> >>relaxing in a garden, chatting about vocabulary in online
>>> >> >>communities.typical behavior for their group of data
>>> >> >>scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that Godwin's
>>> >> >>law could theoretically be testable if only they could
>>> >> >>find a large enough data set. According to Jemielniak,
>>> >> >>Gabriele Fariello, a statistician who teaches at Harvard,
>>> >> >>said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were off."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to
>>> >> > USENET and performed with a chronological component. And
>>> >> > also add "Putin" and "fascist" to the mix.
>>> >> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the
>>> >> Slate article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least
>>> >> the younger generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge
>>> >> of Nazism to trigger the emotional reaction under
>>> >> examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously makes sense
>>> >> only for the Usenet generation.
>>> >Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on
>>> >Reddit suggests that references to Nazism are still overused
>>> >- in fact one of the hits was complaining about such
>>> >references -
>>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_
>>> >to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
>>> >
>>> >More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in
>>> >use in areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has
>>> >been forgotten - though the first hit I get searching for
>>> >that is a slightly different story -
>>> >https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKB
>>> >N15R0OL
>>> If they don't want people to think that that song is their
>>> national anthem maybe they should make a different song their
>>> national anthem.
>>>
>>> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If
>>> they don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the
>>> name of their country.
>>
>>Spoken like a merkin. I think that people living in Pakistan
>>are very rarely called "Paki": I may be mistaken.
>
> Then why are they constantly whining about it?
>>
>>Wikipedia:
>>
>>"The name Pakistan means literally "a land abounding in the
>>pure" or "a land in which the pure abound", in Urdu and Persian.
>>It references the word ??? (p?k), meaning "pure" in Persian and
>>Pashto.[23] The suffix ????? (transliterated in English as
>>-stan) is from Persian, and means "a place abounding in"[24] or
>>"a place where anything abounds".[25]
>>
>>"The name of the country was coined in 1933 by
>>Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who
>>published it in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym
>>("thirty million Muslim brethren who live in PAKISTAN"),[26] and
>>referring to the names of the five northern regions of the
>>British Raj: Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and
>>Baluchistan.[26"
>>
>>I hope "pure" doesn't mean race, but you know what happened.
>>(If you don't, look it up.)
>
> I don't give a damn what it means. If you live in Pakistan
> people are going to call you "Paki" because it's the simplest
> shortening of the name.
>
> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening
> of the name of their country they should come up with a name
> that doesn't have any reasonable short form.
>
So you don't have any problem with people calling you "Disphit"
because it's more convenient to them to use a descriptive nickname,
right?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:0aq8vg11fi2knh6t53pa2k1cmt8q6d9bde@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> > Heydt) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven
>>> >>-
>>> history.html
>>> >>
>>> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a
>>> >>garden, chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical
>>> >>behavior for their group of data scientists, apparently.when he
>>> >>mentioned that Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if
>>> >>only they could find a large enough data set. According to
>>> >>Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a statistician who teaches at
>>> >>Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were off."
>>> >
>>> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
>>> > performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
>>> > "fascist" to the mix.
>>> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
>>> article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
>>> generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
>>> the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law
>>> seriously makes sense only for the Usenet generation.
>>Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit
>>suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of
>>the hits was complaining about such references -
>>https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_to_stop_w
>>ith_all_the_holocaustnazi/
>>
>>More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in use in
>>areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has been forgotten -
>>though the first hit I get searching for that is a slightly different
>>story -
>>https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKBN15R0OL
>
> If they don't want people to think that that song is their national
> anthem maybe they should make a different song their national anthem.
>
> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> country.

If this interests you at all, that word is just the same as what you
Yanks call the "N-word". At least, if you're Pakistani and live in the
UK, which is rather common. Or for anyone else who lives in the UK.

I can see why you think it's silly, and possibly why you would think all
such words are silly (or silly to be taken seriously). It is a real term
of abuse, though.

Bluebeard <don'topenthatdoor@all.org> wrote in news:st27p2$fvi$1@dont-
email.me:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:0aq8vg11fi2knh6t53pa2k1cmt8q6d9bde@4ax.com:
>

>> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
>> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
>> country.
>
> If this interests you at all, that word is just the same as what you
> Yanks call the "N-word". At least, if you're Pakistani and live in the
> UK, which is rather common. Or for anyone else who lives in the UK.
>
> I can see why you think it's silly, and possibly why you would think all
> such words are silly (or silly to be taken seriously). It is a real term
> of abuse, though.

Of course, I don't know how annoying you find Pakistanis; personally I've
known many of them throughout my life, some were okay, some were shit, a
couple were adorable, one is one of my best mates ever. We all get wound up
by various inputs, and goodness knows there's enough irritation to go
around. I think the main issue is people not knowing enough other people
(of whatever origin). Frex, I have mates on both sides of some current
world conflicts (you can guess which ones), and _I_ know they're all really
nice....but will _they_ have it?

Sigh. And thus it is the world turns.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:10:07 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 22:09:16 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> >> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
> >> >> history.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
> >> >> >>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
> >> >> >>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
> >> >> >>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
> >> >> >>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
> >> >> >>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
> >> >> >>off."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
> >> >> > performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
> >> >> > "fascist" to the mix.
> >> >> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
> >> >> article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
> >> >> generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
> >> >> the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously
> >> >> makes sense only for the Usenet generation.
> >> >Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of the hits was complaining about such references - https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
> >> >
> >> >More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in use in areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has been forgotten - though the first hit I get searching for that is a slightly different story - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKBN15R0OL
> >> If they don't want people to think that that song is their national
> >> anthem maybe they should make a different song their national anthem.
> >>
> >> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> >> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> >> country.
> >
> >Spoken like a merkin. I think that people living in Pakistan
> >are very rarely called "Paki": I may be mistaken.
> Then why are they constantly whining about it?
> >
> >Wikipedia:
> >
> >"The name Pakistan means literally "a land abounding in the pure"
> >or "a land in which the pure abound", in Urdu and Persian. It
> >references the word ??? (p?k), meaning "pure" in Persian and
> >Pashto.[23] The suffix ????? (transliterated in English as -stan)
> >is from Persian, and means "a place abounding in"[24] or
> >"a place where anything abounds".[25]
> >
> >"The name of the country was coined in 1933 by
> >Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who
> >published it in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym
> >("thirty million Muslim brethren who live in PAKISTAN"),[26] and
> >referring to the names of the five northern regions of the
> >British Raj: Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and Baluchistan.[26"
> >
> >I hope "pure" doesn't mean race, but you know what happened.
> >(If you don't, look it up.)
> I don't give a damn what it means. If you live in Pakistan people are
> going to call you "Paki" because it's the simplest shortening of the
> name.
>
> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening of the
> name of their country they should come up with a name that doesn't
> have any reasonable short form.

Do you also call people from Japan 'Japs'? Do you do it to their faces?

Pt

In article <XnsAE2D9F029B01Dtaustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:u0u8vgp8f8elgg6hf94dft5ukdj1uu8fsg@4ax.com:
>
>> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening
>> of the name of their country they should come up with a name
>> that doesn't have any reasonable short form.
>>
>So you don't have any problem with people calling you "Disphit"
>because it's more convenient to them to use a descriptive nickname,
>right?

Uh, Terry, was that an inadvertent typo, or was it a deliberate
I-don't-know-what?
>

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:

> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening of the
> name of their country they should come up with a name that doesn't
> have any reasonable short form.

Actually, the people in Britain who are most upset about being called
Pakis aren't people who came from Pakistan, they're people who came
from India.

Something like how Frenchmen would feel if they were called Krauts.
Because India and Pakistan do have a history.

John Savard

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:24:44 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:

> Except that black people don't come from "n-wordstan".

Of course, some black people _do_ come from Nigeria.
However, its name was given to it by colonizers, who
used the Latin word for black.

John Savard

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800, Andrew McDowell wrote:

> Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit
> suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of
> the hits was complaining about such references -
> https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/
people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
>

Reading the full study
https://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/HSMHX9RRVAC73DBWM9WT/full
confirms the remark in the Slate article that the percentage of
posts in its dataset of Reddit postings from 2018 that mentioned
Hitler or Nazi or its variants reached 10 percent. Perception
is everything. To me, that percentage is pretty high, so I
agree with you.

On Saturday, 29 January 2022 at 03:26:00 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 02:20:08 -0000 (UTC), Bluebeard
> <don'topent...@all.org> wrote:
>
> >Bluebeard <don'topent...@all.org> wrote in news:st27p2$fvi$1@dont-
> >email.me:
> >
> >> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:0aq8vg11fi2knh6t5...@4ax.com:
> >>
> >
> >>> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> >>> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> >>> country.
> >>
> >> If this interests you at all, that word is just the same as what you
> >> Yanks call the "N-word". At least, if you're Pakistani and live in the
> >> UK, which is rather common. Or for anyone else who lives in the UK.
> >>
> >> I can see why you think it's silly, and possibly why you would think all
> >> such words are silly (or silly to be taken seriously). It is a real term
> >> of abuse, though.
> >
> >Of course, I don't know how annoying you find Pakistanis; personally I've
> >known many of them throughout my life, some were okay, some were shit, a
> >couple were adorable, one is one of my best mates ever. We all get wound up
> >by various inputs, and goodness knows there's enough irritation to go
> >around. I think the main issue is people not knowing enough other people
> >(of whatever origin). Frex, I have mates on both sides of some current
> >world conflicts (you can guess which ones), and _I_ know they're all really
> >nice....but will _they_ have it?
> >
> >Sigh. And thus it is the world turns.
> Doesn't matter how one find's Pakistanis. If they don't want to be
> called "Pakis" then they need to change the name of their country to
> something that doesn't start with "Paki".

Would you like to explain why a country name
ending with that particular syllable legitimizes
arbitrarily referring to people of that country by
elision of the syllable? Because I'm not yet past
finding this funny.

On Saturday, 29 January 2022 at 13:15:49 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 04:55:22 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, 29 January 2022 at 03:26:00 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 02:20:08 -0000 (UTC), Bluebeard
> >> <don'topent...@all.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Bluebeard <don'topent...@all.org> wrote in news:st27p2$fvi$1@dont-
> >> >email.me:
> >> >
> >> >> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> news:0aq8vg11fi2knh6t5...@4ax.com:
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >>> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> >> >>> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> >> >>> country.
> >> >>
> >> >> If this interests you at all, that word is just the same as what you
> >> >> Yanks call the "N-word". At least, if you're Pakistani and live in the
> >> >> UK, which is rather common. Or for anyone else who lives in the UK.
> >> >>
> >> >> I can see why you think it's silly, and possibly why you would think all
> >> >> such words are silly (or silly to be taken seriously). It is a real term
> >> >> of abuse, though.
> >> >
> >> >Of course, I don't know how annoying you find Pakistanis; personally I've
> >> >known many of them throughout my life, some were okay, some were shit, a
> >> >couple were adorable, one is one of my best mates ever. We all get wound up
> >> >by various inputs, and goodness knows there's enough irritation to go
> >> >around. I think the main issue is people not knowing enough other people
> >> >(of whatever origin). Frex, I have mates on both sides of some current
> >> >world conflicts (you can guess which ones), and _I_ know they're all really
> >> >nice....but will _they_ have it?
> >> >
> >> >Sigh. And thus it is the world turns.
> >> Doesn't matter how one find's Pakistanis. If they don't want to be
> >> called "Pakis" then they need to change the name of their country to
> >> something that doesn't start with "Paki".
> >
> >Would you like to explain why a country name
> >ending with that particular syllable legitimizes
> >arbitrarily referring to people of that country by
> >elision of the syllable? Because I'm not yet past
> >finding this funny.

(By "this", on reflection, I meant "you".)

> It doesn't matter what syllable it ends with. What matters is the
> syllable it beging with.

So they'd be safe from you if they called it Britistan?

What I'm looking for from you is " I see that I have
erred, and I regret most of what I've said on the subject."

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 8:14:37 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:50:13 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:10:07 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 22:09:16 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> >> >> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 8:11:05 AM UTC, Charles Packer wrote:
> >> >> >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:10:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:20 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-
> >> >> >> history.html
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>"The project began with Jemielniak and colleagues relaxing in a garden,
> >> >> >> >>chatting about vocabulary in online communities.typical behavior for
> >> >> >> >>their group of data scientists, apparently.when he mentioned that
> >> >> >> >>Godwin's law could theoretically be testable if only they could find a
> >> >> >> >>large enough data set. According to Jemielniak, Gabriele Fariello, a
> >> >> >> >>statistician who teaches at Harvard, said, 'Hold my beer,' and they were
> >> >> >> >>off."
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > It would be interesting to see that research applied to USENET and
> >> >> >> > performed with a chronological component. And also add "Putin" and
> >> >> >> > "fascist" to the mix.
> >> >> >> This is similar to my initial reaction upon reading the Slate
> >> >> >> article. Reddit? That's a bunch of kids, or at least the younger
> >> >> >> generation. There wouldn't be enough knowledge of Nazism to trigger
> >> >> >> the emotional reaction under examination. Testing Godwin's law seriously
> >> >> >> makes sense only for the Usenet generation.
> >> >> >Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of the hits was complaining about such references - https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >More amusing are occasional sights of Nazi-related symbols in use in areas of the world where WWII never impacted or has been forgotten - though the first hit I get searching for that is a slightly different story - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-fedcup-anthem-idUSKBN15R0OL
> >> >> If they don't want people to think that that song is their national
> >> >> anthem maybe they should make a different song their national anthem.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is like the Pakis whining about being called "Pakis". If they
> >> >> don't like being called "Pakis" they should change the name of their
> >> >> country.
> >> >
> >> >Spoken like a merkin. I think that people living in Pakistan
> >> >are very rarely called "Paki": I may be mistaken.
> >> Then why are they constantly whining about it?
> >> >
> >> >Wikipedia:
> >> >
> >> >"The name Pakistan means literally "a land abounding in the pure"
> >> >or "a land in which the pure abound", in Urdu and Persian. It
> >> >references the word ??? (p?k), meaning "pure" in Persian and
> >> >Pashto.[23] The suffix ????? (transliterated in English as -stan)
> >> >is from Persian, and means "a place abounding in"[24] or
> >> >"a place where anything abounds".[25]
> >> >
> >> >"The name of the country was coined in 1933 by
> >> >Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who
> >> >published it in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym
> >> >("thirty million Muslim brethren who live in PAKISTAN"),[26] and
> >> >referring to the names of the five northern regions of the
> >> >British Raj: Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and Baluchistan.[26"
> >> >
> >> >I hope "pure" doesn't mean race, but you know what happened.
> >> >(If you don't, look it up.)
> >> I don't give a damn what it means. If you live in Pakistan people are
> >> going to call you "Paki" because it's the simplest shortening of the
> >> name.
> >>
> >> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening of the
> >> name of their country they should come up with a name that doesn't
> >> have any reasonable short form.
> >
> >Do you also call people from Japan 'Japs'? Do you do it to their faces
> What else would one call them? "Honorable sons of Nippon" is a bit of
> a mouthful.

You call them 'Japanese'. 'Jap' is regarded by Japanese-Americans as a
serious ethnic slur.
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

Pt

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:40:13 -0800, Andrew McDowell wrote:

> Not sure about the emotional reaction, but a quick search on Reddit
> suggests that references to Nazism are still overused - in fact one of
> the hits was complaining about such references -
> https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/s132n8/
people_need_to_stop_with_all_the_holocaustnazi/
>

A steady drip of Holocaust-referencing material comes from the top
levels of our culture -- the elite media like the NY Times,
books and movies. To someone who reads reviews of movies and books
regularly it can seem like it's everywhere, with or without
the additional experience of the chatter on the internet.

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 8:14:37 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:50:13 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"=20
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:=20

>> >Do you also call people from Japan 'Japs'? Do you do it to their faces
>> What else would one call them? "Honorable sons of Nippon" is a bit of=20
>> a mouthful.
>
>You call them 'Japanese'. 'Jap' is regarded by Japanese-Americans as a
>serious ethnic slur.=20

Actually, I would call them Masa, Jun, Akito or friend. If necessary,
I'll note that they're from Nippon or Japan. Categorization is seldom
necessary and often abused.

On 2022-01-29, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> If they don't want to be called by a name that is a shortening of the
>> name of their country they should come up with a name that doesn't
>> have any reasonable short form.
>
> Actually, the people in Britain who are most upset about being called
> Pakis aren't people who came from Pakistan, they're people who came
> from India.

Eh, no.

People from Pakistan (and Bangladesh) emphatically _do not_ like being called
"Paki" - its both reductive and offensive.

In response to the parent posting (which thankfully met my kf) I shall
immediately commence the use of Brits and Merkins.

--
dgold <news@dgold.eu>

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 5:30:55 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:

[snip]

> You do know that a "merkin" is a product you can buy on Amazon do you
> not?

`Murican" is an alternative.

--
Kevin R - USAian

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:30:55 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:40:38 +0000, Daniel Goldsmith
> <dg...@dgold.invalid> wrote:

> >In response to the parent posting (which thankfully met my kf) I shall
> >immediately commence the use of Brits and Merkins.

> You do know that a "merkin" is a product you can buy on Amazon do you
> not?

I think that fact is part of the intention, to make the name more offensive.

John Savard