Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:
> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away

Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of course,
Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might see
progress towards it at a glacial pace.

Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly represents
a point of view likely to be unpopular among science fiction fans. At least
old-school science fiction fans, although fans of the New Wave might
have a different view.

Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with the planet
at a simpler level of technology requres that there be... fewer of us. However,
advocates of this approach won't necessarily see a problem; they will agree that
killing off lots of people is not an option, but they... hope... we will have a
generation in which to finish putting our ways right.

The cultural and genetic disposition of humans to breed to such an extent
as to produce net growth, until it proves unsustainable and conditions
deteriorate, is, however, intractable. And it's been noted that it is a biological
universal, since were it absent, the species involved would inevitably head
quickly to extinction.

I'm not sure, though, that this is necessarily the problem it is claimed to be.
Humans are intelligent, they can foresee the consequences of their actions,
so of course they _could_ regulate their reproduction so as not to cause
overcrowding without becoming unable to increase their rate of reproduction
when appropriate.

And that, of course, leads to the "obvious" solution to all of our problems.
Replace humanity with Humanity 2.0, the defining characteristic of which
is that its members are just too *smart* to be drawn into the sort of religious
or nationalistic fervor that could lead to irrational behavior.

Once that was done, it wouldn't matter if we solved our problems with lots
of technology or less of it. They'd get solved.

While I am very sympathetic to this point of view, as this likely is one of the
few methods of "saving" humanity that will work, I also recognize that those
who _are_ currently enmeshed in religious fanaticism or nationalistic fervor
are likely to resist the change.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
> wrote:
>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>
> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might
> see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>
> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among science
> fiction fans. At least old-school science fiction fans,
> although fans of the New Wave might have a different view.
>
> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with
> the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that there
> be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach won't
> necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing off lots
> of people is not an option,

Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they won't
be among the first against the wall.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Quadibloc wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>
> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of course,
> Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might see
> progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>
> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly represents
> a point of view likely to be unpopular among science fiction fans. At least
> old-school science fiction fans, although fans of the New Wave might
> have a different view.

Here's his harangue:

https://space.nss.org/settlement/nasa/CoEvolutionBook/DEBATE.HTML#WENDELL BERRY

Berry's brilliance bespeaks truth to power from my perspective as a
closeted New Wave reader.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of course,
> Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might see
> progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>
> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly represents
> a point of view likely to be unpopular among science fiction fans. At least
> old-school science fiction fans, although fans of the New Wave might
> have a different view.
>
> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with the planet
> at a simpler level of technology requres that there be... fewer of us. However,
> advocates of this approach won't necessarily see a problem; they will agree that
> killing off lots of people is not an option, but they... hope... we will have a
> generation in which to finish putting our ways right.
>
> The cultural and genetic disposition of humans to breed to such an extent
> as to produce net growth, until it proves unsustainable and conditions
> deteriorate, is, however, intractable. And it's been noted that it is a biological
> universal, since were it absent, the species involved would inevitably head
> quickly to extinction.

Nonsense. Don't you every bother fact checking?

Population growth is scarcely 'intractable'. Every nation that has reached a
high level of development has seen a drop in the growth rate, until now all
Western nations are most 2% per year (and dropping), and most are actually
losing population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate

pt

On 3/8/2022 10:13 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of course,
>> Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might see
>> progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>
>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly represents
>> a point of view likely to be unpopular among science fiction fans. At least
>> old-school science fiction fans, although fans of the New Wave might
>> have a different view.
>>
>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with the planet
>> at a simpler level of technology requres that there be... fewer of us. However,
>> advocates of this approach won't necessarily see a problem; they will agree that
>> killing off lots of people is not an option, but they... hope... we will have a
>> generation in which to finish putting our ways right.
>>
>> The cultural and genetic disposition of humans to breed to such an extent
>> as to produce net growth, until it proves unsustainable and conditions
>> deteriorate, is, however, intractable. And it's been noted that it is a biological
>> universal, since were it absent, the species involved would inevitably head
>> quickly to extinction.
>
> Nonsense. Don't you every bother fact checking?
>
By now one would think you would know better than to have to ask Quaddie
that.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 11:13:36 AM UTC-7, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

> Population growth is scarcely 'intractable'. Every nation that has reached a
> high level of development has seen a drop in the growth rate, until now all
> Western nations are most 2% per year (and dropping), and most are actually
> losing population.

Oh, I've _heard_ of the so-called "demographic transition".

It just doesn't seem to me to be quite the grounds for optimism as it
is for you.

1) The world's existing population is quite large. So large that bringing
*all the nations of the world* to "a high level of development" is likely to
be beyond our means.

2) The world is composed of people who belong to a wide variety of
cultures and religious faiths. Some will be more resistant to the forces
bringing about the demographic transition than others.

And with each succeeding generation, their proportionate number will
increase. So while the rate of population growth may indeed slow,
such declines have a tendency to be temporary.

But then, since I described the problem as one *inherent in the nature
of life itself*, it should not be surprising that I doubt that it will be
easily surmounted.

John Savard

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 08:37:14 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
>>Of course,
>>Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might see
>>progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>
> Artemis is a side show--NASA's desperate attempt to stay relevant.

AFAICT Artemis' primary goal is to keep money flowing to the companies that
lost out when the Shuttle program was discontinued. Anything beyond that is
a bonus.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>> wrote:
>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>
>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might
>> see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>
>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
>> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among science
>> fiction fans. At least old-school science fiction fans,
>> although fans of the New Wave might have a different view.
>>
>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with
>> the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that there
>> be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach won't
>> necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing off lots
>> of people is not an option,
>
> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they won't
> be among the first against the wall.

Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin. A quarter of the
USA population will be gone in three months.

Lynn

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 7:08:07 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight

> “The Novella Race” • (1978) • short story by Pamela Sargent

Was that the one where the contestants drank some sort of energy liquid with a name like "fuel" or something?

Brian

On 3/8/2022 9:02 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:10:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>>>
>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>>>
>>>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>>>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might
>>>> see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>>>
>>>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
>>>> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among science
>>>> fiction fans. At least old-school science fiction fans,
>>>> although fans of the New Wave might have a different view.
>>>>
>>>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with
>>>> the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that there
>>>> be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach won't
>>>> necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing off lots
>>>> of people is not an option,
>>>
>>> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they won't
>>> be among the first against the wall.
>>
>> Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin. A quarter of the
>> USA population will be gone in three months.
>
> About 0.2% of the population have insulin-dependent diabetes, and
> hypertension is a very slow killer, so that statement goes in the same
> category as the one that conservatives are all going to die of COVID.

Not my experience with high blood pressure. Of course, I am missing my
right coronary artery so that complicates things and is a little rare.
Had the left coronary artery go into spasms in 2009 with 210/110 blood
pressure at the ER. I would not have survived the day without some
really good drugs, especially a lot of Lopressor and morphine.

I've known two guys who passed away from diabetes. One was 70 (last
year not covid) and the other was 45 (about 10 or 12 years ago). Both
of them had leg amputations first. The 45 year old went off insulin and
died a month or so later, his wife was so mad at him that she refused to
have a funeral for him.

Lynn

On 3/8/2022 8:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/8/2022 9:02 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:10:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>>>>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might
>>>>> see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
>>>>> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among science
>>>>> fiction fans.  At least old-school science fiction fans,
>>>>> although fans of the New Wave might have a different view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with
>>>>> the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that there
>>>>> be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach won't
>>>>> necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing off lots
>>>>> of people is not an option,
>>>>
>>>> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they won't
>>>> be among the first against the wall.
>>>
>>> Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin.  A quarter of the
>>> USA population will be gone in three months.
>>
>> About 0.2% of the population have insulin-dependent diabetes, and
>> hypertension is a very slow killer, so that statement goes in the same
>> category as the one that conservatives are all going to die of COVID.
>
> Not my experience with high blood pressure.  Of course, I am missing my
> right coronary artery so that complicates things and is a little rare.
> Had the left coronary artery go into spasms in 2009 with 210/110 blood
> pressure at the ER.  I would not have survived the day without some
> really good drugs, especially a lot of Lopressor and morphine.
>
> I've known two guys who passed away from diabetes.  One was 70 (last
> year not covid) and the other was 45 (about 10 or 12 years ago).  Both
> of them had leg amputations first.  The 45 year old went off insulin and
> died a month or so later, his wife was so mad at him that she refused to
> have a funeral for him.
>
Metformin is the preferred diabetes treatment, at least for type 2 which
I understand is the more common type. Insulin is not the immediate go
to for diabetes and hasn't been for some time. You have to have
seriously advanced type 2 diabetes to be prescribed insulin.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <t09tjv$74l$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 3/8/2022 8:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/8/2022 9:02 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:10:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>>>>>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we might
>>>>>> see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
>>>>>> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among science
>>>>>> fiction fans.  At least old-school science fiction fans,
>>>>>> although fans of the New Wave might have a different view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony with
>>>>>> the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that there
>>>>>> be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach won't
>>>>>> necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing off lots
>>>>>> of people is not an option,
>>>>>
>>>>> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they won't
>>>>> be among the first against the wall.
>>>>
>>>> Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin.  A quarter of the
>>>> USA population will be gone in three months.
>>>
>>> About 0.2% of the population have insulin-dependent diabetes, and
>>> hypertension is a very slow killer, so that statement goes in the same
>>> category as the one that conservatives are all going to die of COVID.
>>
>> Not my experience with high blood pressure.  Of course, I am missing my
>> right coronary artery so that complicates things and is a little rare.
>> Had the left coronary artery go into spasms in 2009 with 210/110 blood
>> pressure at the ER.  I would not have survived the day without some
>> really good drugs, especially a lot of Lopressor and morphine.
>>
>> I've known two guys who passed away from diabetes.  One was 70 (last
>> year not covid) and the other was 45 (about 10 or 12 years ago).  Both
>> of them had leg amputations first.  The 45 year old went off insulin and
>> died a month or so later, his wife was so mad at him that she refused to
>> have a funeral for him.
>>
>Metformin is the preferred diabetes treatment, at least for type 2 which
>I understand is the more common type. Insulin is not the immediate go
>to for diabetes and hasn't been for some time. You have to have
>seriously advanced type 2 diabetes to be prescribed insulin.
>
I had a diabetic friend die suddenly in 2007 but since KW's coroners
tend to be lazy fucks, it's not clear that the official cause of death
(ketoacidosis) was the actual cause of death, because the diagnosis
was based on how many empty diet soft drink bottles were in his condo.
And he tended to let them build up before getting rid of them.

(I don't know if it was the same coroner but we had a hell of a time
getting one to sign off on my mother's body because he didn't like to
work weekends. The body could not be removed until he'd done his
paperwork, her house did not have A/C and it was August)

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 4:56:21 AM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler
wrote:
> Metformin is the preferred diabetes treatment, at least for type 2
> which I understand is the more common type. Insulin is not the
> immediate go to for diabetes and hasn't been for some time. You have
> to have seriously advanced type 2 diabetes to be prescribed insulin.

It's worse than you think.

https://diabetestalk.net/insulin/what-percentage-of-type-2-diabetes-require-insulin

] The number of people using insulin to treat diabetes trebled between
] 1991 and 2010, researchers from Cardiff and Bristol universities have
] found. They say the increase is due to a large rise in the number of
] people with type 2 diabetes using the drug. But the figures are a
] "wake-up call" on how the condition is treated, their study says.
] Insulin is very expensive and some of us believe that it involves too
] many serious side effects in people with type 2 diabetesProf Craig
] Currie, Cardiff University Diabetes UK said many people with type 2
] diabetes needed to use medication to manage their condition. The
] study, published in the Journal of Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism,
] looked at the number of patients receiving prescriptions for insulin
] using data from the Clinical Practice Research Datalink (CPRD). It
] found that UK insulin users increased from 136,800 to 421,300, while
] people with all kinds of diabetes rose from 1.4m to 2.8m. During the
] same period, there was an increase in the prevalence of insulin users
] with a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes from 0.67 to 4.34 per 1,000
] population. The researchers also found that the number of people
] receiving prescriptions for insulin for type 2 diabetes during the
] nearly 20-year period, overtook the number of people with type 1
] diabetes. In 1991, more people using insulin had type 1 than type 2
] diabetes. However, by 2010 this situation had reversed with the total
] number of people with type 2 diabetes injecting insulin increasing
] from 37,000 in 1991 to 277,400 in 2010.

On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 10:50:22 AM UTC-5, rpre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 4:56:21 AM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler
> wrote:
> > Metformin is the preferred diabetes treatment, at least for type 2
> > which I understand is the more common type. Insulin is not the
> > immediate go to for diabetes and hasn't been for some time. You have
> > to have seriously advanced type 2 diabetes to be prescribed insulin.
> It's worse than you think.
>
> https://diabetestalk.net/insulin/what-percentage-of-type-2-diabetes-require-insulin
>
> ] The number of people using insulin to treat diabetes trebled between
> ] 1991 and 2010, researchers from Cardiff and Bristol universities have
> ] found. They say the increase is due to a large rise in the number of
> ] people with type 2 diabetes using the drug. But the figures are a
> ] "wake-up call" on how the condition is treated, their study says.
> ] Insulin is very expensive and some of us believe that it involves too
> ] many serious side effects in people with type 2 diabetesProf Craig
> ] Currie, Cardiff University Diabetes UK said many people with type 2
> ] diabetes needed to use medication to manage their condition. The
> ] study, published in the Journal of Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism,
> ] looked at the number of patients receiving prescriptions for insulin
> ] using data from the Clinical Practice Research Datalink (CPRD). It
> ] found that UK insulin users increased from 136,800 to 421,300, while
> ] people with all kinds of diabetes rose from 1.4m to 2.8m. During the
> ] same period, there was an increase in the prevalence of insulin users
> ] with a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes from 0.67 to 4.34 per 1,000
> ] population. The researchers also found that the number of people
> ] receiving prescriptions for insulin for type 2 diabetes during the
> ] nearly 20-year period, overtook the number of people with type 1
> ] diabetes. In 1991, more people using insulin had type 1 than type 2
> ] diabetes. However, by 2010 this situation had reversed with the total
> ] number of people with type 2 diabetes injecting insulin increasing
> ] from 37,000 in 1991 to 277,400 in 2010.

432k out of 63 million is 0. 67%

About 6 million Americans take insulin:
https://professional.diabetes.org/sites/professional.diabetes.org/files/media/fast_facts_12-2015a.pdf
out of a US population of 330m, that's 1.8%

Clearly, J. Clarke's claim of 0.2% is bogus.

pt

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:n46g2hlfn0bhitage5tu42hkjua72b5rid@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:10:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>>>
>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>>>
>>>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>>>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we
>>>> might see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>>>
>>>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly certainly
>>>> represents a point of view likely to be unpopular among
>>>> science fiction fans. At least old-school science fiction
>>>> fans, although fans of the New Wave might have a different
>>>> view.
>>>>
>>>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony
>>>> with the planet at a simpler level of technology requres that
>>>> there be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this approach
>>>> won't necessarily see a problem; they will agree that killing
>>>> off lots of people is not an option,
>>>
>>> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they
>>> won't be among the first against the wall.
>>
>>Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin. A quarter
>>of the USA population will be gone in three months.
>
> About 0.2% of the population have insulin-dependent diabetes,
> and hypertension is a very slow killer, so that statement goes
> in the same category as the one that conservatives are all going
> to die of COVID.
>
Remember, Lynn is a *big* fan of insane revenge fantasy.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t09a7j$tr6$1@dont-email.me:

> On 3/8/2022 9:02 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:10:12 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2022 9:42 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:c9a674aa-781d-4a44-bb12-33e302051b0en@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7, James Nicoll
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/worlds-away
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, nothing ever came of O'Neill space colonies. Of
>>>>> course, Artemis may eventually lead to lunar mining, so we
>>>>> might see progress towards it at a glacial pace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendell Berry's letter to the CoEvolution Quarterly
>>>>> certainly represents a point of view likely to be unpopular
>>>>> among science fiction fans. At least old-school science
>>>>> fiction fans, although fans of the New Wave might have a
>>>>> different view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isaac Asimov, of course, pointed out that living in harmony
>>>>> with the planet at a simpler level of technology requres
>>>>> that there be... fewer of us. However, advocates of this
>>>>> approach won't necessarily see a problem; they will agree
>>>>> that killing off lots of people is not an option,
>>>>
>>>> Heh. Some of them highly desire excatly that. And assume they
>>>> won't be among the first against the wall.
>>>
>>> Just get rid of the blood pressure drugs and insulin. A
>>> quarter of the USA population will be gone in three months.
>>
>> About 0.2% of the population have insulin-dependent diabetes,
>> and hypertension is a very slow killer, so that statement goes
>> in the same category as the one that conservatives are all
>> going to die of COVID.
>
> Not my experience with high blood pressure. Of course, I am
> missing my right coronary artery so that complicates things and
> is a little rare. Had the left coronary artery go into spasms in
> 2009 with 210/110 blood pressure at the ER. I would not have
> survived the day without some really good drugs, especially a
> lot of Lopressor and morphine.
>
> I've known two guys who passed away from diabetes. One was 70
> (last year not covid) and the other was 45 (about 10 or 12 years
> ago). Both of them had leg amputations first. The 45 year old
> went off insulin and died a month or so later, his wife was so
> mad at him that she refused to have a funeral for him.
>
The plural of anecdote is not data.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 3/9/2022 8:08 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 10:50:22 AM UTC-5, rpre...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 4:56:21 AM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler
>> wrote:
>>> Metformin is the preferred diabetes treatment, at least for type 2
>>> which I understand is the more common type. Insulin is not the
>>> immediate go to for diabetes and hasn't been for some time. You have
>>> to have seriously advanced type 2 diabetes to be prescribed insulin.
>> It's worse than you think.
>>
>> https://diabetestalk.net/insulin/what-percentage-of-type-2-diabetes-require-insulin
>>
>> ] The number of people using insulin to treat diabetes trebled between
>> ] 1991 and 2010, researchers from Cardiff and Bristol universities have
>> ] found. They say the increase is due to a large rise in the number of
>> ] people with type 2 diabetes using the drug. But the figures are a
>> ] "wake-up call" on how the condition is treated, their study says.
>> ] Insulin is very expensive and some of us believe that it involves too
>> ] many serious side effects in people with type 2 diabetesProf Craig
>> ] Currie, Cardiff University Diabetes UK said many people with type 2
>> ] diabetes needed to use medication to manage their condition. The
>> ] study, published in the Journal of Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism,
>> ] looked at the number of patients receiving prescriptions for insulin
>> ] using data from the Clinical Practice Research Datalink (CPRD). It
>> ] found that UK insulin users increased from 136,800 to 421,300, while
>> ] people with all kinds of diabetes rose from 1.4m to 2.8m. During the
>> ] same period, there was an increase in the prevalence of insulin users
>> ] with a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes from 0.67 to 4.34 per 1,000
>> ] population. The researchers also found that the number of people
>> ] receiving prescriptions for insulin for type 2 diabetes during the
>> ] nearly 20-year period, overtook the number of people with type 1
>> ] diabetes. In 1991, more people using insulin had type 1 than type 2
>> ] diabetes. However, by 2010 this situation had reversed with the total
>> ] number of people with type 2 diabetes injecting insulin increasing
>> ] from 37,000 in 1991 to 277,400 in 2010.
>
> 432k out of 63 million is 0. 67%
>
> About 6 million Americans take insulin:
> https://professional.diabetes.org/sites/professional.diabetes.org/files/media/fast_facts_12-2015a.pdf
> out of a US population of 330m, that's 1.8%
>
> Clearly, J. Clarke's claim of 0.2% is bogus.
>
So is Lynn's claim of 25%. I think Clarke's one order of magnitude off
is better than Lynn's two orders of magnitude off. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <b592c9f3-b7b9-4159-b85c-d5bfd5948b69n@googlegroups.com>,
Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 7:08:07 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Orbit 20 edited by Damon Knight
>
>> “The Novella Race” • (1978) • short story by Pamela Sargent
>
>Was that the one where the contestants drank some sort of energy liquid with a
>name like "fuel" or something?
>
>Brian

I believe so.
--
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