To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
applied for NATO membership.

Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
recent war.

Basic question.

If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
line, if both were NATO members?

Why or why not?

On 3/15/2022 12:35 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
>
> To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
> applied for NATO membership.
>
> Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
> recent war.
>
> Basic question.
>
> If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
> would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
> a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
> line, if both were NATO members?
>
> Why or why not?
>
You have some evidence for believing that Russia has applied for NATO
membership? Sorry, it just seems ... very far-fetched.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 3:36:00 PM UTC-4, Trolidan7 wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
> applied for NATO membership.
>
> Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
> recent war.
>
> Basic question.
>
> If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
> would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
> a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
> line, if both were NATO members?
>
> Why or why not?
Neither ever officially applied to join NATO. When Putin first came to power, he mused to western leaders on why Russia hadn't been invited to join. Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for a long time but has never officially applied due to NATO requirements on items such as corruption. By the time they had made progress on that, Russia had already encroached on Crimea and the eastern parts of Ukraine which also made NATO membership a nonstarter. As far as war if they were members? Sure, just look at how Turkey and Greece have squabbled. Also, the UK and Iceland over fishing rights.

On 3/15/22 4:57 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 12:35 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
>> applied for NATO membership.
>>
>> Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
>> recent war.
>>
>> Basic question.
>>
>> If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
>> would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
>> a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
>> line, if both were NATO members?
>>
>> Why or why not?
>>
> You have some evidence for believing that Russia has applied for NATO
> membership?  Sorry, it just seems ... very far-fetched.

A lot of it is based upon shading on maps on Wikipedia.

Looking more closely I am thinking it refers to the Partnership
for Peace.

It seems that in our time line Russia has gradually gone away from
this general direction since the middle 1990s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace

On 3/16/2022 5:48 AM, Trolidan7 wrote:
> On 3/15/22 4:57 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/15/2022 12:35 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
>>> applied for NATO membership.
>>>
>>> Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
>>> recent war.
>>>
>>> Basic question.
>>>
>>> If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
>>> would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
>>> a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
>>> line, if both were NATO members?
>>>
>>> Why or why not?
>>>
>> You have some evidence for believing that Russia has applied for NATO
>> membership?  Sorry, it just seems ... very far-fetched.
>
> A lot of it is based upon shading on maps on Wikipedia.
>
> Looking more closely I am thinking it refers to the Partnership
> for Peace.
>
> It seems that in our time line Russia has gradually gone away from
> this general direction since the middle 1990s.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace
>
Yea, there is a significant difference between "we'll talk about
coordinated disaster relief efforts with you" and "we want to join the
military alliance you formed specifically against us".

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 3/16/22 8:33 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/16/2022 5:48 AM, Trolidan7 wrote:
>> On 3/15/22 4:57 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2022 12:35 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To the best of my knowledge, both Russia and Ukraine have
>>>> applied for NATO membership.
>>>>
>>>> Both did so possibly somewhat prior to the start of the
>>>> recent war.
>>>>
>>>> Basic question.
>>>>
>>>> If both Russia and Ukraine were NATO members prior to 2021,
>>>> would it be possible for the current war to be proceeding in
>>>> a manner almost identical to as it is proceeding in our time
>>>> line, if both were NATO members?
>>>>
>>>> Why or why not?
>>>>
>>> You have some evidence for believing that Russia has applied for NATO
>>> membership?  Sorry, it just seems ... very far-fetched.
>>
>> A lot of it is based upon shading on maps on Wikipedia.
>>
>> Looking more closely I am thinking it refers to the Partnership
>> for Peace.
>>
>> It seems that in our time line Russia has gradually gone away from
>> this general direction since the middle 1990s.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace
>>
> Yea, there is a significant difference between "we'll talk about
> coordinated disaster relief efforts with you" and "we want to join the
> military alliance you formed specifically against us".

I guess there might be different criteria for shading on maps
with varying levels of validity.