"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/

"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
house.

For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.

And then — whammo. Earthquake."

I had been wondering.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
>
>"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
>years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
>At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
>house.
>
>For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
>but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
>
>And then — whammo. Earthquake."

One generally reaps what one sows.

"I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
'special bus.'"

https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/

And she wonders why Baen dropped her.

In article <ozrYJ.205011$oF2.169556@fx10.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
>> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
>>
>>"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
>>years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
>>At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
>>house.
>>
>>For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
>>but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
>>
>>And then — whammo. Earthquake."
>
>One generally reaps what one sows.
>
> "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
> the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
> posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
> associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
> other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
> something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
> SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
> except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
> 'special bus.'"
>
>
>https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
>
>And she wonders why Baen dropped her.

I dunno. I think "plays well with others" should be pretty far down the
list of why you publish an author, with "will probably make me money"
right at the top.

She's certainly right about what being laid off feels like. It's happened
to me twice since 2012, right when I thought I was on a glide path to a
pretty decent retirement. The earth does move.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <ozrYJ.205011$oF2.169556@fx10.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
>> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
>>
>>"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
>>years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
>>At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
>>house.
>>
>>For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
>>but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
>>
>>And then — whammo. Earthquake."
>
>One generally reaps what one sows.
>
> "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
> the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
> posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
> associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
> other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
> something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
> SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
> except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
> 'special bus.'"
>
>
>https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
>
>And she wonders why Baen dropped her.

Generally speaking, people get dumped by publishers because their sales
have declined. Sometimes, because they're a significant pain to deal
with but even there, solid sales can make up for a lot of agro. Someone
at Tor wakes up every morning knowing they're OSC's editor. Various
publishers put up with a lot to keep Piers Anthony happy... until he
stopped selling.
That said, didn't she grumble that she thought Baen wasn't paying her
all the royalties they owned her? That could do it.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <j9f5fiF59g7U1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>
>I dunno. I think "plays well with others" should be pretty far down the
>list of why you publish an author, with "will probably make me money"
>right at the top.
>
>She's certainly right about what being laid off feels like. It's happened
>to me twice since 2012, right when I thought I was on a glide path to a
>pretty decent retirement. The earth does move.

Ah, memories of March 13, 2020, which began with me having a full roster
of theatre shifts for March and April, and ended with me having none. I
did get about an extra hour of work because we prepped the theatre for a
few weeks downtime, just in case there was another flood.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 6:08:55 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <ozrYJ.205011$oF2.1...@fx10.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
> >> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
> >>
> >>"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
> >>years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
> >>At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
> >>house.
> >>
> >>For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
> >>but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
> >>
> >>And then — whammo. Earthquake."
> >
> >One generally reaps what one sows.
> >
> > "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
> > the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
> > posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
> > associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
> > other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
> > something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
> > SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
> > except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
> > 'special bus.'"
> >
> >
> >https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
> >
> >And she wonders why Baen dropped her.
> I dunno. I think "plays well with others" should be pretty far down the
> list of why you publish an author, with "will probably make me money"
> right at the top.
[snip]

There is some speculation about what happened in the comments,
e.g.:

"In the fall of 2018, after much ghosting, I was told I
could fulfill extant contracts, but I’d never sell to them
again. And now I seem to be blackballed from anthologies
also.

I honestly am baffled by this.

AFTERWARDS I did point out if they didn’t return my IP I
would have recourse to law but only after my letters
requesting reversal weren’t answered.

So, two years ago, on my bday, I got letters reversing the IP.

And THAT”S all I know.

I honestly have NO clue. I should point out that I am
singularly unable to understand/catch onto office politics."

The part that I found interesting is the following comment:

"And yeah, okay, I’m probably better indie. Rhodes, which is
a very short book, made me 5k more than I ever made from
any Baen book."

"Rhodes" is presumably a reference to "Other Rhodes"
(https://www.amazon.com/Other-Rhodes-Mysteries-Book-ebook/dp/B098D84PVK)
an e-book novella. It's impressive that she made more
money independently selling a $3.99/Kindle Unlimited
novella than from any of her traditionally published novels.

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 8:15:21 PM UTC, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
> > https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
> >
> >"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
> >years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
> >At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
> >house.
> >
> >For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
> >but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
> >
> >And then — whammo. Earthquake."
> One generally reaps what one sows.
>
> "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
> the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
> posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
> associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
> other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
> something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
> SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
> except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
> 'special bus.'"
>
>
> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
>
> And she wonders why Baen dropped her.
I don't think she would have been dropped if she was their best selling author, and as said elsewhere I doubt if a tendency to colourful invective is a major factor. Possibly Baen had her tipped as an author they could develop to great things and they now want to put those resources behind another newcomer. Her blog has references to health problems - possibly she is not in a position to provided the sort of volume to the sort of timing that Baen were hoping for.

In article <9ea082c1-e83e-4471-a946-48d0b312ffd2n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew McDowell <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 8:15:21 PM UTC, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >"When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
>> > https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
>> >
>> >"Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
>> >years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
>> >At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
>> >house.
>> >
>> >For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
>> >but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
>> >
>> >And then — whammo. Earthquake."
>> One generally reaps what one sows.
>>
>> "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
>> the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
>> posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
>> associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
>> other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
>> something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
>> SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
>> except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
>> 'special bus.'"
>>
>>
>> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
>>
>> And she wonders why Baen dropped her.
>I don't think she would have been dropped if she was their best selling
>author, and as said elsewhere I doubt if a tendency to colourful invective is
>a major factor. Possibly Baen had her tipped as an author they could develop
>to great things and they now want to put those resources behind another
>newcomer. Her blog has references to health problems - possibly she is not in
>a position to provided the sort of volume to the sort of timing that Baen were
>hoping for.

I am reminded of Janet Morris, who was a Baen mainstay in the 1980s,
until very suddenly she wasn't. I think she then did a handful of books
for Roc, and is now effectively self-published.

But authors suddenly getting dropped by publishers with whom they previously
had a good relationship is nothing new: see all the people tossed off the
Del Rey sled in the 1990s. Or for that matter, why the Orbit series ended
at 21 <FORESHADOWING THE MARK OF QUALITY LITERATURE

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:22:38 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
[snip-snip]
> I am reminded of Janet Morris, who was a Baen mainstay in the 1980s,
> until very suddenly she wasn't. I think she then did a handful of books
> for Roc, and is now effectively self-published.

She was published by Bantam in the 1970s, by Berkley in the early-mid
1980s, by Baen in the mid-late 1980s, by Roc (Threshold) and by
Warner/Apsect (ARC Riders) in the early-mid 1990s. In 1995 she
founded (https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-e-morris-4417694b/)
M2 Technologies, a defense/space company, and has served as its
CEO ever since. She also helps run Perseid Press
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-morris-77ba224b/), which has
reprinted most of her books as well as published books by a
number of other authors since 2012.

> But authors suddenly getting dropped by publishers with whom they previously
> had a good relationship is nothing new: see all the people tossed off the
> Del Rey sled in the 1990s. Or for that matter, why the Orbit series ended
> at 21 <FORESHADOWING THE MARK OF QUALITY LITERATURE

DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
changing things.

Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> schrieb:

> The part that I found interesting is the following comment:
>
> "And yeah, okay, I’m probably better indie. Rhodes, which is
> a very short book, made me 5k more than I ever made from
> any Baen book."

Sarah Hoyt, the Tom Macdonald of the book industry?

> "Rhodes" is presumably a reference to "Other Rhodes"
> (https://www.amazon.com/Other-Rhodes-Mysteries-Book-ebook/dp/B098D84PVK)
> an e-book novella. It's impressive that she made more
> money independently selling a $3.99/Kindle Unlimited
> novella than from any of her traditionally published novels.

Books do not appear to pay well (unless one happens to land
somthing like Harry Potter).

Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> schrieb:
>
>> The part that I found interesting is the following comment:
>>
>> "And yeah, okay, I’m probably better indie. Rhodes, which is
>> a very short book, made me 5k more than I ever made from
>> any Baen book."
>
>Sarah Hoyt, the Tom Macdonald of the book industry?

Would she have made 5k from that book without the name
recognition she has from her Baen days?

Looks like amazon pays either 35% of list or 70% of list
to the author depending on list price, sales territory
and author preference.

In article <73095066-d098-40e4-905b-327608588154n@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:22:38 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>[snip-snip]
>> I am reminded of Janet Morris, who was a Baen mainstay in the 1980s,
>> until very suddenly she wasn't. I think she then did a handful of books
>> for Roc, and is now effectively self-published.
>
>She was published by Bantam in the 1970s, by Berkley in the early-mid
>1980s, by Baen in the mid-late 1980s, by Roc (Threshold) and by
>Warner/Apsect (ARC Riders) in the early-mid 1990s. In 1995 she
>founded (https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-e-morris-4417694b/)
>M2 Technologies, a defense/space company, and has served as its
>CEO ever since. She also helps run Perseid Press
>(https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-morris-77ba224b/), which has
>reprinted most of her books as well as published books by a
>number of other authors since 2012.
>
>> But authors suddenly getting dropped by publishers with whom they previously
>> had a good relationship is nothing new: see all the people tossed off the
>> Del Rey sled in the 1990s. Or for that matter, why the Orbit series ended
>> at 21 <FORESHADOWING THE MARK OF QUALITY LITERATURE
>
>DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>changing things.

There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
but I kind of got the impression that, while she loved her father,
she also had some unresolved issues with him.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
[snip-snip]
> >DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
> >changing things.
> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.

Excerpts are available at
https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/

> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition

She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
company, 180 degrees."

It's reasonably common in the literary world -- being related to someone
doesn't necessarily mean that you share that person's literary and other
preferences, e.g. Alexandre Dumas fils was nothing like Alexandre
Dumas père. I suppose it creates unique challenges for publishers'
heirs who inherit a customer base which, in many cases, reflects the
original owner's tastes.

> but I kind of got the impression that, while she loved her father,
> she also had some unresolved issues with him.

She was quite open about it in "Donald A. Wollheim: The
Uncompromising Visionary", which starts with:

"My father was an extreme man: extremely intelligent, extremely
well read, and with extreme opinions that he voiced in extremely
direct and sometimes brutal ways. He was also moody—in turn
philosophical, light-hearted and funny, buoyed by childlike
enthusiasm, then darkly depressed, bitter, and angry. " (full text at
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103327/bio-of-donald-a-wollheim)

On 3/16/2022 6:07 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ozrYJ.205011$oF2.169556@fx10.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>> "When The Ground Moves" by Sarah A. Hoyt
>>> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/03/16/when-the-ground-moves/
>>>
>>> "Yeah, I lived through this as I got “laid off” from Baen. Over the
>>> years I’d built my identity as a writer into Baen. I was a Baen author.
>>> At signings we tended to sit together. Most of my friends were with the
>>> house.
>>>
>>> For at least two years I knew it made me less money than going indie,
>>> but I felt I owed the house something, and all my friends were there.
>>>
>>> And then — whammo. Earthquake."
>>
>> One generally reaps what one sows.
>>
>> "I normally ignore Scalzi and the other SJWs. They're clearly
>> the sort of penny-ante fascists who congregate in the elective
>> posts in community theatre, school boards, and homeowners'
>> associations, who like being able to lord it over a bunch of
>> other people but don't have the balls to actually run for
>> something important. In any case, I no longer aspire to be an
>> SFWA member, and I no longer think writers are somehow special,
>> except perhaps in the sense employed in 'special education' or the
>> 'special bus.'"
>>
>>
>> https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/28/be-the-bojum-charlie-martin/
>>
>> And she wonders why Baen dropped her.
>
> Generally speaking, people get dumped by publishers because their sales
> have declined. Sometimes, because they're a significant pain to deal
> with but even there, solid sales can make up for a lot of agro. Someone
> at Tor wakes up every morning knowing they're OSC's editor. Various
> publishers put up with a lot to keep Piers Anthony happy... until he
> stopped selling.
>
> That said, didn't she grumble that she thought Baen wasn't paying her
> all the royalties they owned her? That could do it.

I suspect that Baen expects a book a year as a minimum from an author.
Of course, Baen prefers four books a year from their authors.

Lynn

On 3/17/2022 12:59 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
> [snip-snip]
>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>> changing things.
>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>
> Excerpts are available at
> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>
>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>
> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
> company, 180 degrees."
>
> It's reasonably common in the literary world -- being related to someone
> doesn't necessarily mean that you share that person's literary and other
> preferences, e.g. Alexandre Dumas fils was nothing like Alexandre
> Dumas père. I suppose it creates unique challenges for publishers'
> heirs who inherit a customer base which, in many cases, reflects the
> original owner's tastes.
>
>> but I kind of got the impression that, while she loved her father,
>> she also had some unresolved issues with him.
>
> She was quite open about it in "Donald A. Wollheim: The
> Uncompromising Visionary", which starts with:
>
> "My father was an extreme man: extremely intelligent, extremely
> well read, and with extreme opinions that he voiced in extremely
> direct and sometimes brutal ways. He was also moody—in turn
> philosophical, light-hearted and funny, buoyed by childlike
> enthusiasm, then darkly depressed, bitter, and angry. " (full text at
> https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103327/bio-of-donald-a-wollheim)

Thank you for that URL. I have been wondering for quite a while why the
USA version of Perry Rhodan died in 1976 and the Ace Books debacle
explains that.

And the DAW bio by his daughter was extremely interesting.

Lynn

In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>[snip-snip]
>> >DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>> >changing things.
>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>
>Excerpts are available at
>https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>
>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>
>She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>company, 180 degrees."

The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that
he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.

I wondered if while there was probably some truth to that, she just
didn't like those guys and that was her internal spin.

Anyway, I would have liked to have gotten proper conclusions to the Scorpio
and Dumerest series(*), and missed the feel of seeing that yellow spine
and knowing it was more likely than not to be a book down my alley.

(*) Yes I know Bulmer wrote some more, but no ending, and Tubb was in his
80s, and the end there was probably not what a younger man would have done.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 17 Mar 2022 at 19:08:39 GMT, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>" <Ted Nolan
<tednolan>> wrote:

> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>> [snip-snip]
>>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>>> changing things.
>>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>>
>> Excerpts are available at
>> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>>
>>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>>
>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>> company, 180 degrees."
>
> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
> the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison

Really! They were library and bookstore catnip to me. So many good
books.

> and that
> he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
> didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.
>
> I wondered if while there was probably some truth to that, she just
> didn't like those guys and that was her internal spin.
>
> Anyway, I would have liked to have gotten proper conclusions to the Scorpio
> and Dumerest series(*), and missed the feel of seeing that yellow spine
> and knowing it was more likely than not to be a book down my alley.

Just so. Still, as you say it may well be unreliable narration by Betsy
there.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"History repeats itself. Has to. No one listens."
-- Steve Turner

On 17/03/2022 14.08, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>> [snip-snip]
>>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>>> changing things.
>>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>>
>> Excerpts are available at
>> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>>
>>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>>
>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>> company, 180 degrees."
>
> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
> the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that
> he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
> didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.

The look was a problem? For that matter, were bookstores a significant
factor in MMPB sales in the early 1970s? I would have thought that they
primarily moved through the wire racks in drug stores, grocery stores,
bus depots, and so on.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

In article <t12036$gnn$2@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 17/03/2022 14.08, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>>>> changing things.
>>>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>>>
>>> Excerpts are available at
>>> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>>>
>>>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>>>
>>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>>> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>>> company, 180 degrees."
>>
>> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
>> the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that
>> he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
>> didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.
>
>The look was a problem? For that matter, were bookstores a significant
>factor in MMPB sales in the early 1970s? I would have thought that they
>primarily moved through the wire racks in drug stores, grocery stores,
>bus depots, and so on.
>

She specifically called out the yellow spines and some other aspects of
the old look that escape me now. I may have invented the "bookstore"
thing for a more general reference to hurting sales. Unfortunately,
I seem to have binned that issue of Locus. I thought I was keeping it
around in case I ever got the tail-wind to type out some of the interview
here, but in the event I can't find it.

I know *I* often bought yellow-spine, white page, DAWs from the spinner-rack
at the local Piggly-Wiggly.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 18/03/2022 08.26, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <t12036$gnn$2@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17/03/2022 14.08, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:

>>>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>>>> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>>>> company, 180 degrees."
>>>
>>> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
>>> the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that
>>> he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
>>> didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.
>>
>> The look was a problem? For that matter, were bookstores a significant
>> factor in MMPB sales in the early 1970s? I would have thought that they
>> primarily moved through the wire racks in drug stores, grocery stores,
>> bus depots, and so on.
>
> She specifically called out the yellow spines and some other aspects of
> the old look that escape me now. I may have invented the "bookstore"
> thing for a more general reference to hurting sales.

Maybe, but bookstores are more likely to have books spine-out, which would
have made the yellow spine more relevant.

> I know *I* often bought yellow-spine, white page, DAWs from the spinner-rack
> at the local Piggly-Wiggly.

Most of mine came from the racks at the taxi stand in my home town.

--
Michael F. Stemper
There's no "me" in "team". There's no "us" in "team", either.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:42 -0500, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

> On 17/03/2022 14.08, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>>>> changing things.
>>>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>>>
>>> Excerpts are available at
>>> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>>>
>>>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>>>
>>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took over
>>> in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the company, 180
>>> degrees."
>>
>> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to the
>> effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that he in
>> effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that didn't
>> sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.
>
> The look was a problem? For that matter, were bookstores a significant
> factor in MMPB sales in the early 1970s? I would have thought that they
> primarily moved through the wire racks in drug stores, grocery stores,
> bus depots, and so on.

I always liked the yellow spines since I had good luck with DAW books of
the period and they made them easy to find. The only thing I could see
is if you had a lot of Daw books together because of author names it
might be hard to tell them apart but I never remember having that problem.

In article <j9jfkeF6p4U1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <t12036$gnn$2@dont-email.me>,
>Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 17/03/2022 14.08, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <411fbd36-09ed-49b3-bc83-a994fa8d6a01n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>> In article <73095066-d098-40e4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>> DAW is a well-known example of a new management team coming in and
>>>>>> changing things.
>>>>> There was an interview with Betsy Wollheim in a recent _Locus_.
>>>>
>>>> Excerpts are available at
>>>> https://locusmag.com/2021/11/betsy-wollheim-alpha-daughter/
>>>>
>>>>> There were some interesting tidbits from her POV about the transition
>>>>
>>>> She said "There have been enormous changes at DAW since we took
>>>> over in 1985. Sheila and I have changed the entire face of the
>>>> company, 180 degrees."
>>>
>>> The parts I especially remember are not in that excerpt and were to
>>> the effect that the yellow-spine look was bookstore poison and that
>>> he in effect supported a bunch of friends by publishing books that
>>> didn't sell and it was putting the company in dire straits.
>>
>>The look was a problem? For that matter, were bookstores a significant
>>factor in MMPB sales in the early 1970s? I would have thought that they
>>primarily moved through the wire racks in drug stores, grocery stores,
>>bus depots, and so on.
>>
>
>She specifically called out the yellow spines and some other aspects of
>the old look that escape me now. I may have invented the "bookstore"
>thing for a more general reference to hurting sales. Unfortunately,
>I seem to have binned that issue of Locus. I thought I was keeping it
>around in case I ever got the tail-wind to type out some of the interview
>here, but in the event I can't find it.

I get Locus as epub so there's no reason to throw it out [1]. I have that
issue. It seems like in general DAW was perceived as old fashioned. Donald
Wollheim himself changed the cover design in 1984 (I think the first
non yellow was Pohl's Demon in the Skull (DAW #585), July 1984. Which I
have never read.

However, a more pressing issue seems to have been that DAW published his
pals, without too much care about whether their books sold. So his daughter
had to drop them, along with other people whose services were no longer
suitable for a modern company.

(I don't think the translations did well but surely they were mostly
gone by the time Betsy took over)

1: Although because my Kobo is almost full, the Locuses stay on my laptop.
Sadly, the Kobo Sage I was going to replace my Aura with has a four hour
battery life so no upgrading to 32GB.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I suspect that Baen expects a book a year as a minimum from an author.
> Of course, Baen prefers four books a year from their authors.

Wow. I pay little attention, not knowing which is new, and which is just new-to-me, and have a weak sense of time -- but, wow.

I dipped into _The Castle of the Otter_, Gene Wolfe's book about The Book of the New Sun, for another aspect of this discussion (see below), but one thing mentioned was that his agent thought they could arrange the trilogy-become-tetralogy with two story collections from other publishers to make Wolfe appear to be a book-a-year man for a good chunk of a decade.

The question I was looking for insight on was how common was an author having a single publisher? I have the impression that the earliest days of sf getting into book form were catch as catch can, each publisher grabbing from the backlog of fiction*. And authors were accustomed to not being tied to a single editor during the magazine days, when there would be a problem of a single editor rejecting the story, or the opposite problem of needing a handful of pseudonyms for selling more than one story a month to one magazine.

*As opposed to the Bad Old Days of the Golden Age of Hollywood, where studios had exclusive contracts with their stars and directors, and, less visibly, producers, writers, cameramen, and special effects artists, or the heyday of the recording industry, with singers and bands tied to their label.

--
-Jack

In article <c118bfd3-f07e-4c37-9b82-b79d2c98d334n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> I suspect that Baen expects a book a year as a minimum from an author.
>> Of course, Baen prefers four books a year from their authors.
>
>Wow. I pay little attention, not knowing which is new, and which is just
>new-to-me, and have a weak sense of time -- but, wow.
>
It may help that Baen is not overkeen on editing, as mentioned in one of the
threads from hell 20 years ago. I think it was Editing Threat or Menace.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll