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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsRobert Carnegie
+* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsQuadibloc
|`* Re: Ukraine needs Hobbitspete...@gmail.com
| `* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|  `* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsQuadibloc
|   `* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsNinapenda Jibini
|    `* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsQuadibloc
|     `- Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
`* Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsScott Lurndal
 `- Re: Ukraine needs HobbitsThe Horny Goat

1
Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 19:46 UTC

On Monday, 14 March 2022 at 16:16:40 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> This is from Isabelle Khurshudyan, a/the Washington Post Moscow
> Correspondent, quoting Ukrainian battalion commander:
>
> “If you want to understand Russia and Ukraine, we Ukraine are Gondor.
> Russia is Mordor — very close and very dangerous. We need Gandalf and
> several hobbits.”
>
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/14/questions-ukraine-russia-answers/>

Is it too obvious what the alleged statement means for
any of you to mention it:

If Gondor falls, Mordor owns Middle-Earth unopposed.

It's a complicated question what to do about Russia
invading Ukraine. I don't know enough about it to
decide. But it isn't up to me, anyway. The people that
it is up to have decided to do not very much at all.
We're not sending Gandalf. We're not sending Eagles.
We're not sending Men, but some are going anyway.

My country censured our citizens who went to fight
against Fascism in Spain in the 1930s. And not only
because Fascism and Roman Catholicism won.

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:57 UTC

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 1:46:45 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> It's a complicated question what to do about Russia
> invading Ukraine. I don't know enough about it to
> decide.

What to do _now_ is hard to decide.

I think that while we had the chance, we should have
given Ukraine real protection against being invaded.

> But it isn't up to me, anyway. The people that
> it is up to have decided to do not very much at all.
> We're not sending Gandalf. We're not sending Eagles.
> We're not sending Men, but some are going anyway.

> My country censured our citizens who went to fight
> against Fascism in Spain in the 1930s. And not only
> because Fascism and Roman Catholicism won.

No. Because it was easy to see the threat that
Communism presented - it was stirring up labor
unions and people made poor in the Depression and
black people. But Fascism? Why, look how they were
improving their countries, we need some of that here!

The millionaires behind McCarthyism are the forebears
of the billionaires behind Trump.

John Savard

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 23:34 UTC

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 6:57:07 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 1:46:45 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > It's a complicated question what to do about Russia
> > invading Ukraine. I don't know enough about it to
> > decide.
> What to do _now_ is hard to decide.
>
> I think that while we had the chance, we should have
> given Ukraine real protection against being invaded.

If we'd started patrols when Russia started buildup, they'd be vulnerable to
SAM missile attacks from Russia and Belarus. Taking out those AA assets would
have required attacks on those two countries by NATO forces. Which would lead
very quickly to a general NATO/Russia war, which would go nuclear as the speed
at which Russia was being beaten became apparent.

I'm glad we didn't do that.

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 23:54 UTC

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d7f9c879-b402-4512-8558-184a760e14dcn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 6:57:07 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 1:46:45 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
>> wrote:
>>
>> > It's a complicated question what to do about Russia
>> > invading Ukraine. I don't know enough about it to
>> > decide.
>> What to do _now_ is hard to decide.
>>
>> I think that while we had the chance, we should have
>> given Ukraine real protection against being invaded.
>
> If we'd started patrols when Russia started buildup, they'd be
> vulnerable to SAM missile attacks from Russia and Belarus.
> Taking out those AA assets would have required attacks on those
> two countries by NATO forces. Which would lead very quickly to a
> general NATO/Russia war,

If the Russians (or their puppets in Belarus) are firing SAMs at
aircraft, of any nation, inside Ukraine territory, it has *already*
lead to war. If they are NATO forces, it has *already* led to
NATO/Russia war.

> which would go nuclear as the speed at
> which Russia was being beaten became apparent.
>
> I'm glad we didn't do that.
>
You do seem awfully committed to defending Russia's actions as
something other than a war of aggression in which they deliberately
target civilians (something for which other heads of state have
been prsoecuted for war crimes).

Do they pay well?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 01:04 UTC

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:55:04 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> You do seem awfully committed to defending Russia's actions as
> something other than a war of aggression in which they deliberately
> target civilians (something for which other heads of state have
> been prsoecuted for war crimes).

I'm glad you've come around.

John Savard

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

<XnsAE5BDE1298867taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232>

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 04:49 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:9688d6b1-a0ff-4750-b6e7-2846c90bcd6fn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:55:04 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>
>> You do seem awfully committed to defending Russia's actions as
>> something other than a war of aggression in which they
>> deliberately target civilians (something for which other heads
>> of state have been prsoecuted for war crimes).
>
> I'm glad you've come around.
>
I've never suggested otherwise outside of your hallucinations.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:11 UTC

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 10:49:55 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:9688d6b1-a0ff-4750...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:55:04 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >
> >> You do seem awfully committed to defending Russia's actions as
> >> something other than a war of aggression in which they
> >> deliberately target civilians (something for which other heads
> >> of state have been prsoecuted for war crimes).
> >
> > I'm glad you've come around.
> >
> I've never suggested otherwise outside of your hallucinations.

I wrote:
> Yes, Russia is. For example, they directly shelled a maternity
> hospital.

And you replied:
(begin quote)
Is there evidence they *targeted* the materinity hospital, rather
than just fucking up? Credible evidence?

And, for that matter, is there any reason to believe there weren't
Ukranian military people using the hospital as a base of operations?

You don't know. And never will, being uninterested in facts.
(end quote)

Now, of course, that isn't _really_ a suggestion that Russia isn't
directly targeting civilians.

It's just referring to one particular instance.

And it's not really making a statement about what happened,
only about my skills in determining what happened from reading
the news.

But it still made a... contrary impression... on me about your views.

I'm glad I was mistaken... but I'm not sure that "hallucination" is the
right word for a mistake of this sort.

John Savard

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:06 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:42de356b-88bb-4b79-866c-56303f67202dn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 10:49:55 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> news:9688d6b1-a0ff-4750...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:55:04 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >
>> >> You do seem awfully committed to defending Russia's actions
>> >> as something other than a war of aggression in which they
>> >> deliberately target civilians (something for which other
>> >> heads of state have been prsoecuted for war crimes).
>> >
>> > I'm glad you've come around.
>> >
>> I've never suggested otherwise outside of your hallucinations.
>
> I wrote:
>> Yes, Russia is. For example, they directly shelled a maternity
>> hospital.
>
> And you replied:
> (begin quote)
> Is there evidence they *targeted* the materinity hospital,
> rather than just fucking up? Credible evidence?
>
> And, for that matter, is there any reason to believe there
> weren't Ukranian military people using the hospital as a base of
> operations?
>
> You don't know. And never will, being uninterested in facts.
> (end quote)

Exactly. I've never suggested otherwise other than in your
hallucinations.

I did, however, question the claim on one specific incident that
has only been reported by known propaganda sources, but that's not
the same thing outside of your hallucinations.
>
> Now, of course, that isn't _really_ a suggestion that Russia
> isn't directly targeting civilians.

Whether it was deliberate or not, it could be prosecuted as a war
crime. Whether it *should* be prosecuted or not is a different
question entirely.
>
> It's just referring to one particular instance.
>
> And it's not really making a statement about what happened,
> only about my skills in determining what happened from reading
> the news.

You are notable, and always have been, for being gullible, and
gobbling down whatever propaganda you're spoon fed by your fascist
masters.
>
> But it still made a... contrary impression... on me about your
> views.

That says far more about you and your hallucinations than it does
about me.
>
> I'm glad I was mistaken... but I'm not sure that "hallucination"
> is the right word for a mistake of this sort.
>
I am sure.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

<NvoYJ.86269$yi_7.8854@fx39.iad>

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From: sco...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
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Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:46 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>I believe I ran across an article stating that US Citizens can go and
>fight in foreign wars, if they want.
>
>Just not against the USA (and its allies), presumably.

OBF: The Lucky Terrell Flying Stories by Canfield Cook
describe such a situation.

"According to the U.S. code, any citizen who "enlists or
enters himself, or hires or retains another to enlist
or enter himself, or to go beyond the jurisdiction of
the United States with intent to be enlisted or entered
in the service of any foreign prince, state, colony, district,
or people as a soldier or as a marine or seaman - shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both."

But a court ruling from 1896 involving U.S. citizens who fought
with Cuban revolutionaries against Spanish colonial rule interpreted
this to mean that it was only illegal for citizens to be recruited
for a foreign army in the United States, not to simply fight in one.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/959

Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Ukraine needs Hobbits
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 21:20 UTC

On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:46:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

> But a court ruling from 1896 involving U.S. citizens who fought
> with Cuban revolutionaries against Spanish colonial rule interpreted
> this to mean that it was only illegal for citizens to be recruited
> for a foreign army in the United States, not to simply fight in one.

Which is probably good for the future since otherwise there could have
been no Abraham Lincoln Brigade (international brigades) in the
Spanish Civil War and US pilots who went to the UK during the Battle
of Britain could have been jailed on their return home.

(Could be worse - my (Canadian) senior high math teacher had 40 years
before been an international brigader who was discharged in early 1939
and hiked around France and the UK from February 1939 to the outbreak
of war in September 1939 and at that point got himself to the Canadian
high commission (that's what they used to call 'embassies' within the
old British empire) to volunteer for active duty. There were no
Canadian troops in the UK until the summer of 1940 so they sent him to
a British training unit to teach rifle to recruits then later
transferred him to a Canadian unit when there were enough there for
him to serve meaningfully as an instructor. He eventually got his
university training on the Canadian equivalent of the GI bill and
became an outstanding math teacher. Despite his politics he was one
helluva teacher and we're worse off for his passing in 2005)

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