Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
David N. Brown
Mesa Arizona

On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:47:48 -0700 (PDT), David Brown
<davidnbrown80@gmail.com> wrote:

>Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a revi=
>ew of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Korn=
>bluth's story The Marching Morons. Anybody have their own recollections of
>the author, the story or the movie?
>https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-w=
>here.html

I'm a big fan of Idiocracy (my wife and I quote lines from it all the
time). Your review strikes me as a bit ironic, because you way
overthought it. It's not meant to be Citizen Kane, it's just a silly
comedy. And a really good one. It's what plants crave.

-- Bob

On 2022-03-18 5:30 a.m., Bice wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:47:48 -0700 (PDT), David Brown
> <davidnbrown80@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a revi=
>> ew of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Korn=
>> bluth's story The Marching Morons. Anybody have their own recollections of
>> the author, the story or the movie?
>> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-w=
>> here.html
>
>
> I'm a big fan of Idiocracy (my wife and I quote lines from it all the
> time). Your review strikes me as a bit ironic, because you way
> overthought it. It's not meant to be Citizen Kane, it's just a silly
> comedy. And a really good one. It's what plants crave.

Idiocracy is a silly comedy based on an idea that people have held in
perfect seriousness for more than a century. That poor people are
intellectually inferior on a genetic level and allowing them to outbreed
people of higher social status will lead to the decline of humanity.
It's an idea that's reflected in The Marching Morons as well. And
contrary to the OP, I'm inclined to think Kornbluth was pretty serious
about his premise.

On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
> David N. Brown
> Mesa Arizona

Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
early 21st? Which does the film say?

What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!

I may make other points in your page comments
if they aren't made there or here by someone else.

On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
>> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
>> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
>> David N. Brown
>> Mesa Arizona
>
> Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
> early 21st? Which does the film say?
>
> What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
> that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
> I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!

Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 7:41:23 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> >> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
> >> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
> >> David N. Brown
> >> Mesa Arizona
> >
> > Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
> > early 21st? Which does the film say?
> >
> > What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
> > that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
> > I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
> Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
> effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.

As a biologist, he knew about speciation.

Also note that Wells grew up in the servant class attached to a stately home. He seems to have been a lot smarter than the Eloi living on the upper floors. More successful, anyway.

William Hyde

On 3/19/2022 9:12 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 7:41:23 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
>>>> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
>>>> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
>>>> David N. Brown
>>>> Mesa Arizona
>>>
>>> Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
>>> early 21st? Which does the film say?
>>>
>>> What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
>>> that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
>>> I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
>> Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
>> effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.
>
> As a biologist, he knew about speciation.
>
> Also note that Wells grew up in the servant class attached to a stately home. He seems to have been a lot smarter than the Eloi living on the upper floors. More successful, anyway.
>
So, did he have fantasies about eating them? :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:41:19 -0600, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
>>> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
>>> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
>>> David N. Brown
>>> Mesa Arizona
>>
>> Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
>> early 21st? Which does the film say?
>>
>> What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
>> that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
>> I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
>
>Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
>effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.

This is only the Time Traveller's theory. Note the last two sentences
below:

'So, as I see it, the Upper-world man had drifted towards his feeble
prettiness, and the Under-world to mere mechanical industry. But that
perfect state had lacked one thing even for mechanical
perfection--absolute permanency. Apparently as time went on, the
feeding of the Under-world, however it was effected, had become
disjointed. Mother Necessity, who had been staved off for a few
thousand years, came back again, and she began below. The Under-world
being in contact with machinery, which, however perfect, still needs
some little thought outside habit, had probably retained perforce
rather more initiative, if less of every other human character, than
the Upper. And when other meat failed them, they turned to what old
habit had hitherto forbidden. So I say I saw it in my last view of the
world of Eight Hundred and Two Thousand Seven Hundred and One. It may
be as wrong an explanation as mortal wit could invent. It is how the
thing shaped itself to me, and as that I give it to you.'

H. G. Wells . The Time Machine (Kindle Locations 1949-1961). VP
Classics. Kindle Edition.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> >> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
> >> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
> >
> > What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
> > that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
> > I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!

> Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
> effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.

Because Wells was British, he was used to thinking of the upper classes as idiots?
What year did The Upper Class Twit of the Year start?
I tend to think of P.G. Wodehouse, his Jeeves & Wooster stories started in 1915, the same as those about the Blandings Castle set. Before that, he was writing "school" stories, which -from what I've read of them- mostly involve avoiding education. A look leads me to Wodehouse's predecessor, Jerome K. Jerome, editor of The Idler, a magazine begun in 1892, saying it was aimed at Gentlemen, and taking its title from his book, _Idle Thoughts of an Idle Fellow_. Which suggests others had a view of that country's idiocracy around the time of _The Time Machine_.

--
-Jack

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> schrieb:
> David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
>> >> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
>> >> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
>> >
>> > What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
>> > that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
>> > I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
>
>> Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
>> effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.
>
> Because Wells was British, he was used to thinking of the upper classes as idiots?
> What year did The Upper Class Twit of the Year start?

1970 (if you are referring to the Monty Python sketch).

Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> schrieb:
> > David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 2022-03-19 8:58 a.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> >> >> Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
> >> >> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
> >> >
> >> > What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
> >> > that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
> >> > I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
> >
> >> Because Wells was a socialist, the Eloi were the descendants of the
> >> effete ruling class, not the uneducated poor people.
> >
> > Because Wells was British, he was used to thinking of the upper classes as idiots?
> > What year did The Upper Class Twit of the Year start?

> 1970 (if you are referring to the Monty Python sketch).

I was referencing it, but mostly using the title to refer to the broader idea that "our betters" are in no discernable way better.

--
-Jack

TOn Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 7:58:58 AM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 01:47:50 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> > Here's something new on my blog I thought would be of interest here, a review of Idiocracy, believed by many to be an unofficial adaptation of CM Kornbluth's story The Marching Morons. I went a little more than I needed to with my thoughts on the author, who was a non trivial reason I got into vintage sci fi in the first place. In my further opinion, he was the best satirical sci fi writer of his era after William Tenn. The non-trivial problem is that he could play close enough to "straight" that it can be hard to tell how much is a joke. Anybody have their own recollections of the author, the story or the movie?
> > https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/03/no-good-very-bad-movies-22-one-where.html
> > David N. Brown
> > Mesa Arizona
> Does "the human race of the early 20th century" mean
> early 21st? Which does the film say?
>
> What from _The Marching Morons_ is in this film
> that isn't in _The Time Machine_ and "Rip van Winkle"?
> I mean the Eloi as surviving humans are quite dumb!
>
> I may make other points in your page comments
> if they aren't made there or here by someone else.
Just getting to this, I edited the post to say late 20th-early 21st century, just bc that better reflects the time frame of the movie. For comparisons of Morons and Time Machine, the latter is really a good example of a stereotype I had already considered, that the mentally impaired and disabled are kind and docile. Kornbluth clearly reversed this idea, as his Morons are clearly hostile if not violent to anyone who openly treats them as inferiors.. What Wells may have intended is complicated by the Morlocks, who don't really demonstrate greater intelligence but are obviously much more aggressive. My own thought as a self advocate is that the usual cliches are valid enough to correspond to real problems for the community. My opinion is that it's maybe 10% temperament, 90% conditioning both by upbringing and social conditioning.

David N. Brown
Mesa Arizona