On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:55:37 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 13:06:40 UTC, Bice wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,=20
>> >> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them=20
>> >> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,=20
>> >> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for=20
>> >> slabs of atlantic salmon).=20
>> We have one of those vacuum sealers and my wife uses it pretty much
>> the same way. She'll buy large packages of things (ground hamburger
>> comes to mind) and then split them up into amounts suitable for
>> individual meals, seal them up and stick them in the freezer. She
>> uses the sealer so much that she wore out our first one and asked me
>> to get a new one for Christmas a couple years ago.
>
>Okay: I was relying on the link
><https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers>
>for "/why/ are you doing this to food", and it says
>leftovers, at length. Much much later, I now find, it gets to
>"cooking and sealing several meals Sunday evening so you’ll have
>a week’s worth of meals in the freezer", but... you can buy the meals...
>Using it to freeze future meal ingredients is proposed under "Tips".
>
>All this is after the article introduces their chef - who is
>a businessman and not your ordinary household chef -
>so I don't know quite what he's contributing to an article
>about home, uh, bagging of food, except to remind us
>that just putting food in a plastic bag does about zero
>to extend its going-off date. But if he carries out
>vacuum preserving, I guess it's probably for time shifting
>of when food is consumed. Or conceivably... would
>a restaurant vacuum-bag what a customer left on their
>plate so the customer can take it home? I haven't asked.
>Now I have.
>
>> >There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
>> >bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
>> >p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
>> >n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
>> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
>> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
>> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.
>
>Does this compress clothes better than loading them
>in a suitcase? But I suppose you expect to use your
>suitcases... and this ought to keep bugs out. Unless
>the bugs are in. And depending how close you get
>to a literal vacuum.

If one's vacuum cleaner can reduce the air pressure in the vacuum bag
by 20%, that's around 1000 pounds on the area of a typical suitcase,
which is more than most people can deliver by sitting on it.

On 21/03/2022 03:05, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>>
>> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>>
>> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>>
>> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>> anyone who has used one.
>
> I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
> characters cooked instead of using a food
> synthesiser. Apparently the use case for a vacuum

Heinlein mentioned the skill of cooking in his famous Lazarus Long quote
about humans being generalists; able to conn a ship, change a baby, cook
a tasty meal, fight bravely, die gallantly, etc. "...Specialization is
for insects."

> sealer is saving leftovers more satisfactorily in
> some way than by putting a plate of food under
> Saran wrap. I don't see that being a sci fi subject.
>
> And on the other hand, there's been home "canning"
> for a long time.
>
> It is how astronauts eat, though. Also if your kid
> is at college on the Moon - or out of state - you could
> make sure they get decent meals by sealing your home
> cooking in plastic, and mailing it to them.

--
Mike Dworetsky

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:10:06 +1300, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>> <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
>>> bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
>>> p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
>>> n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
>>
>
>> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
>> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
>> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.
>
>I guess that in autumn or fall you either wear two lots of summer
>clothes or perhaps half the normal winter wear and that in spring you
>are naked?

She mostly packs away her own clothes (I'm a guy - I've got a
functional wardrobe of about 50 t-shirts and a half dozen pair of
jeans). But I will admit that it's a bit annoying when I want to do
the nordic track or stationary bike in the winter and all my shorts
have been vacuum-packed away for the winter. I end up exercising in
pajamas.

-- Bob

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:55:39 AM UTC-4, Bice wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:10:06 +1300, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> >> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
> >>> bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
> >>> p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
> >>> n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
> >>
> >
> >> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
> >> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
> >> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.
> >
> >I guess that in autumn or fall you either wear two lots of summer
> >clothes or perhaps half the normal winter wear and that in spring you
> >are naked?
> She mostly packs away her own clothes (I'm a guy - I've got a
> functional wardrobe of about 50 t-shirts and a half dozen pair of
> jeans). But I will admit that it's a bit annoying when I want to do
> the nordic track or stationary bike in the winter and all my shorts
> have been vacuum-packed away for the winter. I end up exercising in
> pajamas.

As with most things these days, there are numerous YT videos on this.
Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSEvtTgtf4
It appears to reduce bulk by 1/2 to 3/4.

Some kits include a portable pump - either battery or hand powered,
to allow you to re-compress while on the road.

pt

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 12:10:12 AM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
> On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> > <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> snip
> >
> >> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
> >> bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
> >> p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
> >> n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.

> I had never heard of this and suspect you either have too many clothes,
> insufficient wardrobe space or you live in a tent?

Consumer Alert on my consumer reports! I would be surprised if I own a hundredth of the items I see advertised and have given enough thought to comment on. (That is, comments deeper than. "Crabwalking truck: What?!?") As to the clothes-brickinator, I've worried about it promoting wrinkles to the status of a permanent crease. Although I have to dress for hot weather, warm weather, cool weather, and cold weather, I find two dressers and about eight feet of closet keeps everything available. (Plus the closet under the stairs convenient to the door for my jackets, coats, hats and gloves. (We need a word to indicate plural of a single glove!))

--
-Jack

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:32:06 AM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> >> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> >> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> >> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> >> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
> >> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
> >>
> > As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.
> At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
> only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
> of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
> depressing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.
>
> While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
> not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
> makes the bacteria grow much faster.

What temperature would be adequate to prevent this?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:32:06 AM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
>> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
>> >> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
>> >> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
>> >> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
>> >> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
>> >> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
>> >>
>> > As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.
>> At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
>> only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
>> of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
>> depressing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.
>>
>> While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
>> not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
>> makes the bacteria grow much faster.
>
> What temperature would be adequate to prevent this?

The effect is actually not relevant to food safety - if you keept
it at the usual freezing temperature, it will not spoil due to
bacteriological effects. It's just that there is hardly a "zero"
in nature :-)

Many bacteria will form spores and reactivate when the food
is thawed. If the ice crystals generated during freezing
have destroyed cell walls in meat, for example, the conditions
for their growth are actually better.

As for totally suppressing growth, you would have to go low
enough in temperature so that there is no more free water.
Not sure where that limit is, it will certainly depend on the
type of food.

Bacteria also need enough room go grow. One trick of the people
making reduced-fat butter is to make the water droplets small
enough so that bacterial literally do not have the space to grow.

On 3/23/2022 11:30 AM, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:32:06 AM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
>>>>> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
>>>>> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
>>>>> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
>>>>> slabs of atlantic salmon).
>>>> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
>>>>
>>> As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.
>> At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
>> only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
>> of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
>> depressing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.
>>
>> While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
>> not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
>> makes the bacteria grow much faster.
>
> What temperature would be adequate to prevent this?
>
-459 F?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 1:46:25 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:32:06 AM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> >> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> >> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> >> >> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> >> >> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> >> >> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> >> >> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
> >> >> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
> >> >>
> >> > As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.
> >> At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
> >> only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
> >> of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
> >> depressing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.
> >>
> >> While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
> >> not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
> >> makes the bacteria grow much faster.
> >
> > What temperature would be adequate to prevent this?
> The effect is actually not relevant to food safety - if you kept
> it at the usual freezing temperature, it will not spoil due to
> bacteriological effects. It's just that there is hardly a "zero"
> in nature :-)
>
> Many bacteria will form spores and reactivate when the food
> is thawed. If the ice crystals generated during freezing
> have destroyed cell walls in meat, for example, the conditions
> for their growth are actually better.
>
> As for totally suppressing growth, you would have to go low
> enough in temperature so that there is no more free water.
> Not sure where that limit is, it will certainly depend on the
> type of food.
>
> Bacteria also need enough room go grow. One trick of the people
> making reduced-fat butter is to make the water droplets small
> enough so that bacterial literally do not have the space to grow.

According to this report from Purdue University, which includes a phase
diagram of the sodium chloride-water system, no liquid solution of that salt can
exist below minus 21.2 degrees Celsius, or about minus 6 degrees Fahrenheit:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/JTRP/Highlights/nacl-the-most-wellestablished-road-salt

This is only slightly below present home freezer temperatures. Commercial freezers may be
as low as minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit. it would seem that home freezers could be built to
achieve this if botulism growing in frozen food were a major problem.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On 24/03/22 03:55, Jack Bohn wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 12:10:12 AM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>> On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>>> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> snip
>>>
>>>> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and
>>>> sturdier plastic = bags you store clothes in, and attach to a
>>>> vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee= p them fresh, the vacuum
>>>> allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur= n
>>>> compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
>
>> I had never heard of this and suspect you either have too many
>> clothes, insufficient wardrobe space or you live in a tent?
>
> Consumer Alert on my consumer reports! I would be surprised if I own
> a hundredth of the items I see advertised and have given enough
> thought to comment on. (That is, comments deeper than. "Crabwalking
> truck: What?!?") As to the clothes-brickinator, I've worried about
> it promoting wrinkles to the status of a permanent crease. Although
> I have to dress for hot weather, warm weather, cool weather, and cold
> weather, I find two dressers and about eight feet of closet keeps
> everything available. (Plus the closet under the stairs convenient
> to the door for my jackets, coats, hats and gloves. (We need a word
> to indicate plural of a single glove!))
>

Maybe the brickinator is another example of our crazy consumerism
resulting in more STUFF than we really need. I have been astounded by
the growth in rental Storage Units in the last decade. (In New Zealand).

.....pairsofgloves?

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

> When were the first consumer microwave ovens?

One of the Ma & Pa Kettle movies I saw at the drive-in in the forties
featured a consumer microwave oven. Ma put a turkey in the oven, sat
down with the manual to learn when to take it out, and jumped up to
find the turkey burnt black.

So when I got one of my own, I was surprised to learn that the
microwave is the fastest of the slow methods of cooking.

But it does save washing a pan.

Heats too unevenly for serious cooking, but microwave meals are a
really big help in keeping the old folks at home. Were it not for
such modern conveniences as chickens that are already dead when you
buy them, I'd have had to move in with a daughter-in-law years ago.
And we have no daughters-in-law.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:14:50 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
><peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>
>One of the Ma & Pa Kettle movies I saw at the drive-in in the forties
>featured a consumer microwave oven. Ma put a turkey in the oven, sat
>down with the manual to learn when to take it out, and jumped up to
>find the turkey burnt black.
>
>So when I got one of my own, I was surprised to learn that the
>microwave is the fastest of the slow methods of cooking.
>
>But it does save washing a pan.
>
>Heats too unevenly for serious cooking,

Depends on what you mean by "serious cooking". Try corn on the cob, 2
minutes per ear, put the corn in with the husks on, cut off the bottom
when done, and push out the ear. Perfectly heated and all the tassels
and silk come off clean. No other method comes close.

>but microwave meals are a
>really big help in keeping the old folks at home. Were it not for
>such modern conveniences as chickens that are already dead when you
>buy them, I'd have had to move in with a daughter-in-law years ago.
>And we have no daughters-in-law.

On 3/25/2022 8:14 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
> <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>
> One of the Ma & Pa Kettle movies I saw at the drive-in in the forties
> featured a consumer microwave oven. Ma put a turkey in the oven, sat
> down with the manual to learn when to take it out, and jumped up to
> find the turkey burnt black.
>
> So when I got one of my own, I was surprised to learn that the
> microwave is the fastest of the slow methods of cooking.
>
> But it does save washing a pan.
>
> Heats too unevenly for serious cooking, but microwave meals are a
> really big help in keeping the old folks at home. Were it not for
> such modern conveniences as chickens that are already dead when you
> buy them, I'd have had to move in with a daughter-in-law years ago.
> And we have no daughters-in-law.
>
You just completely failed to plan ahead, didn't you.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 26/03/22 05:30, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:14:50 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
>> <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>>
>> One of the Ma & Pa Kettle movies I saw at the drive-in in the forties
>> featured a consumer microwave oven. Ma put a turkey in the oven, sat
>> down with the manual to learn when to take it out, and jumped up to
>> find the turkey burnt black.
>>
>> So when I got one of my own, I was surprised to learn that the
>> microwave is the fastest of the slow methods of cooking.
>>
>> But it does save washing a pan.
>>
>> Heats too unevenly for serious cooking,
>
> Depends on what you mean by "serious cooking". Try corn on the cob, 2
> minutes per ear, put the corn in with the husks on, cut off the bottom
> when done, and push out the ear. Perfectly heated and all the tassels
> and silk come off clean. No other method comes close.
>

Agreed. Though 1 minute at a 1000w. I use mine mainly for veges. It has
a grill in the ceiling so it can perfectly roast a small chicken (<2kg)
with veges in 22 minutes.
Joy Beeson meant that it heated too unevenly. I suspect that 6 pieces of
corn if cooked all at once would have to be cooked stop/start in small
periods being reorganised making it more labour intensive. Recipes for
stews, curries, soups etc advise periodic stirring to overcome the
problem but I suspect my aging taste buds might not notice the
difference from that from a pot on the stove.

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>
> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>
They are also used for Sous Vide cooking

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
> >
> > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
> >
> They are also used for Sous Vide cooking

As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
food.

Pt

On Saturday, 26 March 2022 at 14:47:29 UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> > > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> > > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> > > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> > > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> > > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> > > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> > > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
> > >
> > > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> > > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> > > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> > > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
> > >
> > They are also used for Sous Vide cooking
> As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
> food.

But how can you hear that :-)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 15:19:09 +1300, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 26/03/22 05:30, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:14:50 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
>>> <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>>>
>>> One of the Ma & Pa Kettle movies I saw at the drive-in in the forties
>>> featured a consumer microwave oven. Ma put a turkey in the oven, sat
>>> down with the manual to learn when to take it out, and jumped up to
>>> find the turkey burnt black.
>>>
>>> So when I got one of my own, I was surprised to learn that the
>>> microwave is the fastest of the slow methods of cooking.
>>>
>>> But it does save washing a pan.
>>>
>>> Heats too unevenly for serious cooking,
>>
>> Depends on what you mean by "serious cooking". Try corn on the cob, 2
>> minutes per ear, put the corn in with the husks on, cut off the bottom
>> when done, and push out the ear. Perfectly heated and all the tassels
>> and silk come off clean. No other method comes close.
>>
>
>Agreed. Though 1 minute at a 1000w. I use mine mainly for veges. It has
>a grill in the ceiling so it can perfectly roast a small chicken (<2kg)
>with veges in 22 minutes.
>Joy Beeson meant that it heated too unevenly. I suspect that 6 pieces of
>corn if cooked all at once would have to be cooked stop/start in small
>periods being reorganised making it more labour intensive. Recipes for
>stews, curries, soups etc advise periodic stirring to overcome the
>problem but I suspect my aging taste buds might not notice the
>difference from that from a pot on the stove.

I thought that's what rotating circular trays were intended to solve.

But it is true that many of the prepared meals I nuke have to be
stirred half-way through. And that some that don't require additional
time, sometimes quite a bit (established through trial-and-error).
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 26 March 2022 at 14:47:29 UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>> > > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>> > > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>> > > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>> > > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>> > > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>> > > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>> > > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>> > >
>> > > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>> > > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>> > > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>> > > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>> > >
>> > They are also used for Sous Vide cooking
>> As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
>> food.
>
>But how can you hear that :-)

Perhaps there is a great sucking sound.

Or may things aren't going so well, and he can hear her reaction.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 27 Mar 2022, Paul S Person wrote
(in article<pq214h5s20g7fuuec993pmi9s3pg4lqo35@4ax.com>):

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, 26 March 2022 at 14:47:29 UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterw...@hotmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> > > > > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> > > > > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> > > > > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> > > > > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> > > > > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> > > > > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> > > > > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> > > > > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> > > > > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> > > > > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
> > > > They are also used for Sous Vide cooking
> > > As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
> > > food.
> >
> > But how can you hear that :-)
>
> Perhaps there is a great sucking sound.

<big ears>of jobs going to Mexico?</big ears>
>
>
> Or may things aren't going so well, and he can hear her reaction.

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 11:13:00 AM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 26 March 2022 at 14:47:29 UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> > > > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> > > > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> > > > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> > > > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> > > > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> > > > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> > > > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
> > > >
> > > > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> > > > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> > > > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> > > > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
> > > >
> > > They are also used for Sous Vide cooking
> > As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
> > food.
> But how can you hear that :-)

The pump that sucks out the air is quite audible.

Pt

In article <09af88e9-013b-4af1-9077-87a1660b421dn@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 11:13:00 AM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Saturday, 26 March 2022 at 14:47:29 UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 5:39:13 AM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:59:43 AM UTC+11,
>peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > > > Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>> > > > planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>> > > > the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>> > > > preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>> > > > rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>> > > > pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>> > > > drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>> > > > was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>> > > >
>> > > > I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>> > > > home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>> > > > established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>> > > > People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>> > > >
>> > > They are also used for Sous Vide cooking
>> > As I sit here I can hear my wife in the next room vacuum sealing
>> > food.
>> But how can you hear that :-)
>
>The pump that sucks out the air is quite audible.
>
>Pt

In space nobody can hear you vacuum!
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..