The movie Star Wars (1977) astounded audiences around the world. It was
the kind of movie people were hoping to be able to watch at the movie
theatre, without even knowing that it was what they were wishing for.

Its sequel, The Empire Strikes Back, is generally regarded as having been
even better. However, in order to heighten the dramatic intensity of one
portion of the film,

(I don't *think* I need to put a spoiler warning here)

Darth Vader reveals to Luke Skywalker that _he_ is Luke's father.

In my opinion, _this_ is where the rot set in. This is where George Lucas
painted himself into the corner that eventually led him to Jar-Jar Binks.

In the case of Star Trek, although similar events happened, it is now
long ago, and without permanent dramatic consequences. Today we
have Star Trek: Discovery and Picard, and Strange New Worlds is on
the way: the franchise may not be making _everyone_ happy (particularly
those who are unhappy that Star Trek, the show that _did_ bring us
Nichelle Nichols as Uhura, after all, is now, that it is free to do so, showing
off its "woke" and progressive colors in all their glory) but it _is_ thriving.

The same can't be said about Star Wars, what with Disney and Kathleen
Kennedy and a generally outraged fan base. Despite "The Mandalorian"
apparently being quite good. But when Episode IX seems to be taken as
worse than the Holiday Special, there's a problem.

What I'm thinking about in terms of Star Trek is three of the early movies.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek: First Contact

The problem with Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Its plot is suspiciously similar to that of "The Changeling". That
is an unbelievable coincidence.

The problem with Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
The episode "Space Seed" ended on the note of Kirk having planted a
seed in space that in millenia to come would bear wholesome fruit.
Thus, the movie _contradicts_ part of an episode of the original series,
if not in terms of its actual events, at least in terms of its subtext.

The problem with Star Trek: First Contact
Its depiction of both the character of Zefram Cochrane, and the
world in which he lived, are at variance with the conclusions that
viewers of the original series episode "Metamorphosis" would have
formed as they watched that episode for the first time.
Also, a post-apocalyptic Earth is inconsistent with Kirk's statement
in "Return to Tomorrow" to the effect that Earth _avoided_ World
War III.

Thus, just as Darth Vader's revelation in The Empire Strikes Back
damaged the previous movie, whether you call it Star Wars or
A New Hope, some of the early Star Trek movies inflicted damage
to episodes of the original series.

John Savard

On 2022-04-01 10:28 a.m., Quadibloc wrote:

>
> The problem with Star Trek: First Contact
> Its depiction of both the character of Zefram Cochrane, and the
> world in which he lived, are at variance with the conclusions that
> viewers of the original series episode "Metamorphosis" would have
> formed as they watched that episode for the first time.
> Also, a post-apocalyptic Earth is inconsistent with Kirk's statement
> in "Return to Tomorrow" to the effect that Earth _avoided_ World
> War III.

MCCOY: They have slavery, gladiatorial games, despotism.

SPOCK: Situations quite familiar to the six million who died in your
first world war, the eleven million who died in your second, the thirty
seven million who died in your third. Shall I go on?

--Bread and Circuses

Not only does Spock say there was a third world war, he implies there
was also a fourth world war that was even worse.

A fandom grognard would just point that obviously Kirk meant "Avoided
World War III _in 1968_" seeing as how they were hinting at World War
IV, four episodes later. (It is usually assumed that the world war
Spock referred to was actually the Eugenics Wars, but that was followed
by the mid 21st final world war that Picard described as having killed
600 million).

Also Kirk made no predictions about what they'd find when they came back
to check on the stranded prisoners a thousand years later. He just
sounded optimistic. But when did Kirk not sound optimistic?

So basically it boils down to Star Trek The Motionless Picture being a
mediocre movie that recycled the premise of a forgettable episode, which
of course is perfectly true. But mediocre and downright bad
installments in a franchise come and go. They are as inevitable as
flatulence.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:

> In the case of Star Trek, although similar events happened, it is now
> long ago, and without permanent dramatic consequences. Today we
> have Star Trek: Discovery and Picard, and Strange New Worlds is on
> the way: the franchise may not be making _everyone_ happy

Star Trek: Discovery was making me rather unhappy. I watched
more episodes than I should have, and have concluded that I would
spend a moderate amount of money it the alternative was to watch
more episodes.

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:14:52 AM UTC-4, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
> > In the case of Star Trek, although similar events happened, it is now
> > long ago, and without permanent dramatic consequences. Today we
> > have Star Trek: Discovery and Picard, and Strange New Worlds is on
> > the way: the franchise may not be making _everyone_ happy
> Star Trek: Discovery was making me rather unhappy. I watched
> more episodes than I should have, and have concluded that I would
> spend a moderate amount of money it the alternative was to watch
> more episodes.

I'm watching Picard, and its excellent. I dropped ST:Disco after a few episodes.

Pt

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:36:57 AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:14:52 AM UTC-4, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
> > > In the case of Star Trek, although similar events happened, it is now
> > > long ago, and without permanent dramatic consequences. Today we
> > > have Star Trek: Discovery and Picard, and Strange New Worlds is on
> > > the way: the franchise may not be making _everyone_ happy
> > Star Trek: Discovery was making me rather unhappy. I watched
> > more episodes than I should have, and have concluded that I would
> > spend a moderate amount of money it the alternative was to watch
> > more episodes.
> I'm watching Picard, and its excellent. I dropped ST:Disco after a few episodes.
>
> Pt

Picard 1 is pretty good. Picard 2 is a big bucket of stupidity.