I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:16:56 -0000
(UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
>in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
>without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.

Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:56:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:16:56 -0000
>(UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
>>in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
>>without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.
>
> Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
>they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".

Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
in full naval uniform from 1910.

On 7/26/22 8:49 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:56:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:16:56 -0000
>> (UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>> I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
>>> in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
>>> without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.
>>
>> Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>> many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
>> they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
>
> Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
> tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
> they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
> binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
> Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
> the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
> replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
> who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
> more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
> there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
> in full naval uniform from 1910.
>

One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
my knowledge, it is now owned by any specific
corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
transfer of information between computers, somewhat
like 'internet'.

Many corporations do a type of censorship that
they tend to call 'not censorship' because they
obtain charters from governments to do types of
transactions that they claim makes them 'not part
of governments'. Thus they can not in their minds
actually 'censor'.

To some extent this started with the printing
press. At that point the creating of books
no longer involved the hand copying of words
from some paper, parchment, or papyrus or
cloth to other pieces of similar materials.

If a person wanted a shorter book earlier than
that the person employing a scribe could tell
the scribe to 'paraphrase' to make shorter. The
person could pay the scribe more per word for a
lesser number of words. This took less time for
the scribe, and the scribe sort of became an 'author'
that way, but it really did not mean much because
this only involved one physical book.

Later on, however, with the mass production of
the same words into a larger number of books or
newspapers 'copyright' and mass 'censorship'
seemed to mean somewhat more.

To me, having middle men 'not censor' is a bad
price to pay for the extra bells and whistles.

On 7/27/22 11:13 AM, Trolidan7 wrote:
> On 7/26/22 8:49 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:56:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:16:56 -0000
>>> (UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if  the following:
>>>> I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
>>>> in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
>>>> without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.
>>>
>>>     Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>>> many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google.  If
>>> they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
>>
>> Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
>> tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
>> they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
>> binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
>> Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
>> the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
>> replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
>> who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
>> more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
>> there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
>> in full naval uniform from 1910.
>>
>
> One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
> my knowledge, it is no(t) owned by any specific
> corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
> transfer of information between computers, somewhat
> like 'internet'.
> ...
Hopefully not 'now'.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:56:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:16:56 -0000
>>(UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>>I've been seeing traffic in this group decline rapidly,and am put
>>>in mind of its menu tagline..."What would the internet have been like
>>>without this group?"...I hope we don't have to find out.
>>
>> Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>>many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
>>they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
>
> Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
> tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
> they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
> binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
> Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
> the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
> replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
> who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
> more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
> there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
> in full naval uniform from 1910.

As the "bulletin boards" of the ENTIRE INTERNET the newsgroup
hierarchies (Usenet,Netnews,whatever) rather than any particular
domain ought to be all internet users' default.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Fri, 29 Jul 2022 23:51:13 -0000
(UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>
>>> Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>>>many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
>>>they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
>>
>> Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
>> tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
>> they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
>> binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
>> Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
>> the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
>> replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
>> who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
>> more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
>> there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
>> in full naval uniform from 1910.
>
>As the "bulletin boards" of the ENTIRE INTERNET the newsgroup
>hierarchies (Usenet,Netnews,whatever) rather than any particular
>domain ought to be all internet users' default.

"ought to be" but since AOL came online ... Most people's idea of
The Internet is Facebook, Twitter, and Google.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

> Trolidan7
>
> One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
> my knowledge, it is not owned by any specific
> corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
> transfer of information between computers, somewhat
> like 'internet'.

I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.

"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> on Sat, 30 Jul 2022
15:40:59 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>> Trolidan7
>>
>> One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
>> my knowledge, it is not owned by any specific
>> corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
>> transfer of information between computers, somewhat
>> like 'internet'.
>
>I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
>with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.

Where are they going to go? The issue is that the majority of
people online in 2022 "know" that "The Internet" is Google, Facebook.
and Twitter. AKA "Alphabet and Meta." The don't read, they just look
at the pictures.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"

> pyotr filipivich
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> >I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
> >with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.
>
> Where are they going to go? The issue is that the majority of
> people online in 2022 "know" that "The Internet" is Google, Facebook.
> and Twitter. AKA "Alphabet and Meta." The don't read, they just look
> at the pictures.

Well... yeah and as most nowadays seem to use their cellphones to
access the Internet, it's only gotten worse.

I use Reddit occasionally (mostly for the Detroit Lions board) and their
alt-history board is shit, consisting mostly of kids posting re-colored
maps (i.e. UberGermany v.995!) with no POD and not much discussion.

I posted links to both "A Drowned Baby Timeline" and "ISOT USA 1942"
to give them an idea of what a proper alt-timeline looks like and only
a couple of people bothered looking at them...

pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> on Sat, 30 Jul 2022
> 15:40:59 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>> Trolidan7
>>>
>>> One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
>>> my knowledge, it is not owned by any specific
>>> corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
>>> transfer of information between computers, somewhat
>>> like 'internet'.
>>
>>I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
>>with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.
>
> Where are they going to go? The issue is that the majority of
> people online in 2022 "know" that "The Internet" is Google, Facebook.
> and Twitter. AKA "Alphabet and Meta." The don't read, they just look
> at the pictures.

There's also a sad lack of distinction between the Internet
and the World Wide Web.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

edstas...@gmail.com <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>> pyotr filipivich
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> >I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
>> >with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.
>>
>> Where are they going to go? The issue is that the majority of
>> people online in 2022 "know" that "The Internet" is Google, Facebook.
>> and Twitter. AKA "Alphabet and Meta." The don't read, they just look
>> at the pictures.
>
> Well... yeah and as most nowadays seem to use their cellphones to
> access the Internet, it's only gotten worse.
>
> I use Reddit occasionally (mostly for the Detroit Lions board) and their
> alt-history board is shit, consisting mostly of kids posting re-colored
> maps (i.e. UberGermany v.995!) with no POD and not much discussion.

I've been kicked off Twitter and Reddit (and Wikipedia),and I
never EVER use a mobile device for Internet access.
> I posted links to both "A Drowned Baby Timeline" and "ISOT USA 1942"
> to give them an idea of what a proper alt-timeline looks like and only
> a couple of people bothered looking at them...

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> on Fri, 29 Jul 2022 23:51:13 -0000
> (UTC) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>
>>>> Traffic in newsgroups is dropping off, in large part because to
>>>>many people "the Internet" is Facebook, Twitter, and Google. If
>>>>they've heard of "newsgroups" they think you mean "Google Groups".
>>>
>>> Unfortunately too true - so many ISPs have dropped Usenet and my ISP
>>> tech guys told me at most 1-1.5% of their customers were using it when
>>> they dropped it. Me - I pay $10/mo to my provider mostly for the
>>> binaries with the chat groups like this being a most welcome add-on.
>>> Having been doing 'newsgroups' all the way back to the FidoNET era of
>>> the 80s I'd probably find something similar - Quora definitely isn't a
>>> replacement - I mostly go there for 2 reasons: (1) to mock the idiots
>>> who think their cockeyed scenarios deserve to be taken seriously and
>>> more importantly (2) there are some wonderful historical photos posted
>>> there - my favorite being a picture of Churchill and Kaiser Wilhelm II
>>> in full naval uniform from 1910.
>>
>>As the "bulletin boards" of the ENTIRE INTERNET the newsgroup
>>hierarchies (Usenet,Netnews,whatever) rather than any particular
>>domain ought to be all internet users' default.
>
> "ought to be" but since AOL came online ... Most people's idea of
> The Internet is Facebook, Twitter, and Google.

It drove me up the wall when AOL started calling itself the world's
largest Internet Service Provider when by my standards it was not
an ISP at all,just a particular online network that had internet
access (as did CompuServe,etc).

I was actually on a predecessor of AOL briefly (PC-Link) but
stopped using it in short order.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

> Louis Epstein
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > I use Reddit occasionally (mostly for the Detroit Lions board) and their
> > alt-history board is shit, consisting mostly of kids posting re-colored
> > maps (i.e. UberGermany v.995!) with no POD and not much discussion.
>
> I've been kicked off Twitter and Reddit (and Wikipedia),and I
> never EVER use a mobile device for Internet access.

During the covid insanity, I tried posting an article (from CNN no less!)
to r/news about California closing gun stores while leaving weed stores
open and the thread was instantly deleted.

When I asked the mods what was going on, they said all covid related
comments must be made in the covid general thread and when I pointed
out there were literally dozens of stand-alone covid threads, (all of course
praising the government’s mask mandates, lock downs and such) I got
the banhammer...

https://i.postimg.cc/j5G1PR7m/permabanned.gif

pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> on Sat, 30 Jul 2022
> 15:40:59 -0700 (PDT) typed in alt.history.what-if the following:
>>> Trolidan7
>>>
>>> One thing I like about Usenet is that to the best of
>>> my knowledge, it is not owned by any specific
>>> corporation, rather, it is a protocol for the
>>> transfer of information between computers, somewhat
>>> like 'internet'.
>>
>>I keep hoping people will rediscover Usenet as they become pissed off
>>with corporate social media but so far, that hasn't happened.
>
> Where are they going to go? The issue is that the majority of
> people online in 2022 "know" that "The Internet" is Google, Facebook.
> and Twitter. AKA "Alphabet and Meta." The don't read, they just look
> at the pictures.

I've been locked out of Twitter (and Wikipedia and Reddit) and have never
been on Facebook and only use Google externally (no account).
(Posting from twice-updated-lately tin).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.