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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

SubjectAuthor
* About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)a425couple
+* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|+* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Joe Pfeiffer
||+- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Robert Carnegie
||`- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Ninapenda Jibini
|`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Ross Presser
| `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Ninapenda Jibini
`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Quadibloc
 +- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Ninapenda Jibini
 `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)David Johnston
  +- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Robert Carnegie
  `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dimensional Traveler
   `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Robert Carnegie
    +- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dimensional Traveler
    `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)J. Clarke
     +* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
     |`- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)J. Clarke
     `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Paul S Person
      +* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jay E. Morris
      |`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dimensional Traveler
      | `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)pete...@gmail.com
      |  +* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dimensional Traveler
      |  |`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)David Duffy
      |  | `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
      |  |  `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      |  |   +* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)William Hyde
      |  |   |+* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)David Duffy
      |  |   ||`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
      |  |   || +* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      |  |   || |`* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
      |  |   || | `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      |  |   || |  `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Kevrob
      |  |   || |   `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)J. Clarke
      |  |   || |    `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Michael F. Stemper
      |  |   || |     `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Michael F. Stemper
      |  |   || `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Michael F. Stemper
      |  |   ||  `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
      |  |   ||   `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      |  |   |`- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Joe Pfeiffer
      |  |   `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
      |  `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)William Hyde
      |   `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      |    `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Robert Woodward
      |     +- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Default User
      |     +- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)James Nicoll
      |     `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Dorothy J Heydt
      `* Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Thomas Koenig
       `- Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)Paul S Person

Pages:12
About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<OP05K.213128$OT%7.96377@fx07.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=71749&group=rec.arts.sf.written#71749

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Subject: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
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 by: a425couple - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:11 UTC

About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

It was loosely based on the 1963 French novel
La Planète des Singes by Pierre Boulle.
"Planet of the Apes" is a 1968 American science fiction film
directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and stared Charlton Heston
and Roddy McDowall.
Interesting, 5 movies and a television series.

A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,

"I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
have tipped him off sooner."

--- Because movie makers can control and direct and
channel our thoughts? !

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<XnsAE76931EA1715taustingmail@85.12.62.232>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=71751&group=rec.arts.sf.written#71751

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:27 UTC

a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote in news:OP05K.213128$OT%
7.96377@fx07.iad:

> About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
>
> It was loosely based on the 1963 French novel
> La Planète des Singes by Pierre Boulle.
> "Planet of the Apes" is a 1968 American science fiction film
> directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and stared Charlton Heston
> and Roddy McDowall.
> Interesting, 5 movies and a television series.
>
> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>
> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
> have tipped him off sooner."
>
> --- Because movie makers can control and direct and
> channel our thoughts? !

My favorite answer:

"The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."

(The script writers basically ignored the issue by throwing in a
random line by one of the astronauts about there being no moon.
Otherwise, the big reveal at the end would have been s small bit of
trivia at hte beginning.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<af0898d3-595f-4bde-a278-b93a4d71c698n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 12 Apr 2022 00:02 UTC

On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:

> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>
> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
> have tipped him off sooner."

I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.

But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
could not have immediately recognized they must be on
Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.

John Savard

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<1bbkx4nzjr.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>

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From: pfeif...@cs.nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.fan.heinlein,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:56:08 -0600
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 by: Joe Pfeiffer - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 02:56 UTC

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>
> My favorite answer:
>
> "The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."
>
> (The script writers basically ignored the issue by throwing in a
> random line by one of the astronauts about there being no moon.
> Otherwise, the big reveal at the end would have been s small bit of
> trivia at hte beginning.)

I didn't (frankly, still don't) remember that. But.... did they provide
any explanation for there not being a moon any more? Or is the humorous
answer at the beginning of your post really all we've got?

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<a4911510-5fce-4c88-975d-283a90e63152n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:06 UTC

On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 03:56:14 UTC+1, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > My favorite answer:
> >
> > "The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."
> >
> > (The script writers basically ignored the issue by throwing in a
> > random line by one of the astronauts about there being no moon.
> > Otherwise, the big reveal at the end would have been s small bit of
> > trivia at hte beginning.)
> I didn't (frankly, still don't) remember that. But.... did they provide
> any explanation for there not being a moon any more? Or is the humorous
> answer at the beginning of your post really all we've got?

Maybe it was new moon time. So it may be there in the sky,
but you can't see it.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(novel)>
differs.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<929da223-4e0f-4538-928e-54efc264d621n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: rpres...@gmail.com (Ross Presser)
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 by: Ross Presser - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 14:00 UTC

On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 5:27:51 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:OP05K.213128$OT%
> 7.9...@fx07.iad:
> > About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
> >
> > It was loosely based on the 1963 French novel
> > La Planète des Singes by Pierre Boulle.
> > "Planet of the Apes" is a 1968 American science fiction film
> > directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and stared Charlton Heston
> > and Roddy McDowall.
> > Interesting, 5 movies and a television series.
> >
> > A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
> >
> > "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
> > looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
> > have tipped him off sooner."
> >
> > --- Because movie makers can control and direct and
> > channel our thoughts? !
> My favorite answer:
>
> "The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."

How about "That's no moon, it's a space station!"

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<XnsAE7AE851F79A8taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <OP05K.213128$OT%7.96377@fx07.iad> <XnsAE76931EA1715taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <1bbkx4nzjr.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:50 UTC

Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote in
news:1bbkx4nzjr.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> My favorite answer:
>>
>> "The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."
>>
>> (The script writers basically ignored the issue by throwing in
>> a random line by one of the astronauts about there being no
>> moon. Otherwise, the big reveal at the end would have been s
>> small bit of trivia at hte beginning.)
>
> I didn't (frankly, still don't) remember that. But.... did they
> provide any explanation for there not being a moon any more?

They did not. That was the point.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <OP05K.213128$OT%7.96377@fx07.iad> <XnsAE76931EA1715taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <929da223-4e0f-4538-928e-54efc264d621n@googlegroups.com>
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:50:38 GMT
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:50 UTC

Ross Presser <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote in
news:929da223-4e0f-4538-928e-54efc264d621n@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 5:27:51 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:OP05K.213128$OT% 7.9...@fx07.iad:
>> > About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
>> >
>> > It was loosely based on the 1963 French novel
>> > La Planète des Singes by Pierre Boulle.
>> > "Planet of the Apes" is a 1968 American science fiction film
>> > directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and stared Charlton Heston
>> > and Roddy McDowall.
>> > Interesting, 5 movies and a television series.
>> >
>> > A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>> >
>> > "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>> > looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>> > have tipped him off sooner."
>> >
>> > --- Because movie makers can control and direct and
>> > channel our thoughts? !
>> My favorite answer:
>>
>> "The moon blasted out of orbit on September 13, 1999."
>
> How about "That's no moon, it's a space station!"
>
That works, too.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<XnsAE7AE8BD88EB5taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:52:48 GMT
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:52 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:af0898d3-595f-4bde-a278-
b93a4d71c698n@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>
>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>>
>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>> have tipped him off sooner."
>
> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
>
> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
>
That's your complaint? Throughout all of science fiction movies, the
only time aliens don't speak English is when it's a critical plot
point.

Welcome to Hollywood.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t41lua$17ff$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: davidjoh...@yahoo.com (David Johnston)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:01:13 -0600
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 by: David Johnston - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:01 UTC

On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>
>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>>
>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>> have tipped him off sooner."
>
> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.

Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.

https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195

>
> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.

Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
everyone speaks English.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<1cc86a58-877d-4b49-bca9-deafadd00f9dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:56 UTC

On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 21:01:20 UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
> >
> >> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
> >>
> >> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
> >> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
> >> have tipped him off sooner."
> >
> > I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
> > addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
> > arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
> Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
> night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
> night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
> those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
> have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
>
> https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
> >
> > But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
> > could not have immediately recognized they must be on
> > Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
> Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
> speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
> everyone speaks English.

According to the novel summary, there is a
simian language, which at least one of the
human astronauts learns at length.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t41q3s$8sn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:12:28 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:12 UTC

On 4/23/2022 1:01 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>>
>>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>>>
>>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>>> have tipped him off sooner."
>>
>> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
>> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
>> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
>
> Yeah, that's wrong.  They couldn't look at the night sky because at
> night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
> night sky.  There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
> those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
> have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
>
> https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
>
>>
>> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
>> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
>> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
>
> Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
> speech, that isn't relevant.  The apes are only speaking English because
> everyone speaks English.
>
I remember sequels to the Heston Apes making it clear that apes had been
uplifted by humans and were servitors to humans. It was them learning
to speak that led to the ape revolt that destroyed human civilization.
(That is until a later sequel involved bringing original Apes movie apes
back in time to the then current day which worked out about as well as
you should expect.)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<708781f0-af78-4272-b130-5114af40379an@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:07 UTC

On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:12:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/23/2022 1:01 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> > On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
> >> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
> >>
> >>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
> >>>
> >>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
> >>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
> >>> have tipped him off sooner."
> >>
> >> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
> >> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
> >> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
> >
> > Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
> > night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
> > night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
> > those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
> > have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
> >
> >>
> >> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
> >> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
> >> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
> >
> > Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
> > speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
> > everyone speaks English.
> >
> I remember sequels to the Heston Apes making it clear that apes had been
> uplifted by humans and were servitors to humans. It was them learning
> to speak that led to the ape revolt that destroyed human civilization.
> (That is until a later sequel involved bringing original Apes movie apes
> back in time to the then current day which worked out about as well as
> you should expect.)

The point is that in a science fiction movie,
landing on a planet with Earth species (including
humans), Earth gravity, and where an Earth language
is spoken, doesn't imply that the planet is Earth,
but only that the film was made on Earth.

I suppose they could throw in some Triffids to keep
us guessing. :-)

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t43p1g$ar9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:06:25 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:06 UTC

On 4/24/2022 6:07 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:12:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 4/23/2022 1:01 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>>>>>
>>>>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>>>>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>>>>> have tipped him off sooner."
>>>>
>>>> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
>>>> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
>>>> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
>>> night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
>>> night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
>>> those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
>>> have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
>>>> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
>>>> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
>>>
>>> Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
>>> speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
>>> everyone speaks English.
>>>
>> I remember sequels to the Heston Apes making it clear that apes had been
>> uplifted by humans and were servitors to humans. It was them learning
>> to speak that led to the ape revolt that destroyed human civilization.
>> (That is until a later sequel involved bringing original Apes movie apes
>> back in time to the then current day which worked out about as well as
>> you should expect.)
>
> The point is that in a science fiction movie,
> landing on a planet with Earth species (including
> humans), Earth gravity, and where an Earth language
> is spoken, doesn't imply that the planet is Earth,
> but only that the film was made on Earth.
>
> I suppose they could throw in some Triffids to keep
> us guessing. :-)

In some version of that movie the Triffids are Earth native. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<k4db6hdvebt5sjj7uiadgko4m55a62jne6@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Message-ID: <k4db6hdvebt5sjj7uiadgko4m55a62jne6@4ax.com>
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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:37:04 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:37 UTC

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:12:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 4/23/2022 1:01 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>> > On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
>> >> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>> >>>
>> >>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>> >>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>> >>> have tipped him off sooner."
>> >>
>> >> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
>> >> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
>> >> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
>> >
>> > Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
>> > night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
>> > night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
>> > those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
>> > have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
>> >
>> > https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
>> >
>> >>
>> >> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
>> >> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
>> >> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
>> >
>> > Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
>> > speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
>> > everyone speaks English.
>> >
>> I remember sequels to the Heston Apes making it clear that apes had been
>> uplifted by humans and were servitors to humans. It was them learning
>> to speak that led to the ape revolt that destroyed human civilization.
>> (That is until a later sequel involved bringing original Apes movie apes
>> back in time to the then current day which worked out about as well as
>> you should expect.)
>
>The point is that in a science fiction movie,
>landing on a planet with Earth species (including
>humans), Earth gravity, and where an Earth language
>is spoken, doesn't imply that the planet is Earth,
>but only that the film was made on Earth.
>
>I suppose they could throw in some Triffids to keep
>us guessing. :-)

Yep. Having most of the dialog in the movie being in apish with
subtitles would have been box office poison. I don't know why it
comes as a shock to so many people that the reason movies are made is
to produce a profit.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<rAvB9x.5oC@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Message-ID: <rAvB9x.5oC@kithrup.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 23:44:21 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 23:44 UTC

In article <k4db6hdvebt5sjj7uiadgko4m55a62jne6@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>... Having most of the dialog in the movie being in apish with
>subtitles would have been box office poison.

Have you, by any chance, seen this film?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-Chi_and_the_Legend_of_the_Ten_Rings

Scroll down to "Plot," whose backstory (first three paragraphs)
is spoken *entirely in Mandarin Chinese,* with English subtitles
(or whatever language is spoken by the audience). I've only seenr
it once and I can't give you a count of minutes before the hero
gets to San Francisco and starts speaking English but there were
a lot of them.

Keep scrolling down till you find out how many billions the film
made; I don't see enough movies to be able to judge.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Message-ID: <j57c6h5a36q9bht97s21c4ugdheqplcu1n@4ax.com>
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 00:08:13 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 04:08 UTC

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 23:44:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <k4db6hdvebt5sjj7uiadgko4m55a62jne6@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>... Having most of the dialog in the movie being in apish with
>>subtitles would have been box office poison.
>
>Have you, by any chance, seen this film?
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-Chi_and_the_Legend_of_the_Ten_Rings
>
>Scroll down to "Plot," whose backstory (first three paragraphs)
>is spoken *entirely in Mandarin Chinese,* with English subtitles
>(or whatever language is spoken by the audience). I've only seenr
>it once and I can't give you a count of minutes before the hero
>gets to San Francisco and starts speaking English but there were
>a lot of them.
>
>Keep scrolling down till you find out how many billions the film
>made; I don't see enough movies to be able to judge.

432 million on a 200 million production cost. It may have eked out a
slight profit. I'm not joking--general rule is that a movie loses
money if it doesn't make more than twice the production cost. And it
has the advantage of being part of a major franchise.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<ejfd6hlf8tekl2695iephlaeiaksoeqmda@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:35:50 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:35 UTC

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:37:04 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:12:35 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2022 1:01 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> > On 2022-04-11 6:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
>>> >> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:11:14 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> A wise acre just posted on the Heinlein FB group,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "I've wondered why, in the original Ape movie, Heston never
>>> >>> looked at the night sky and saw the moon. Surely that would
>>> >>> have tipped him off sooner."
>>> >>
>>> >> I had not noticed what Terry did: that one of the astronauts
>>> >> addressed the issue by noting that the planet at which they
>>> >> arrived had no moon at the beginning of the movie.
>>> >
>>> > Yeah, that's wrong. They couldn't look at the night sky because at
>>> > night there were clouds with a "strange luminosity" that covered the
>>> > night sky. There was no moon on that night just because it was one of
>>> > those nights when there is no moon but the cloud of plot devicium would
>>> > have kept them from getting a good look at it anyway.
>>> >
>>> > https://youtu.be/16jLyLsMa58?t=195
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> But when I saw the movie, what I wondered was how they
>>> >> could not have immediately recognized they must be on
>>> >> Earth when the apes spoke... *English*.
>>> >
>>> > Since the apes only gained intelligence after humanity lost the power of
>>> > speech, that isn't relevant. The apes are only speaking English because
>>> > everyone speaks English.
>>> >
>>> I remember sequels to the Heston Apes making it clear that apes had been
>>> uplifted by humans and were servitors to humans. It was them learning
>>> to speak that led to the ape revolt that destroyed human civilization.
>>> (That is until a later sequel involved bringing original Apes movie apes
>>> back in time to the then current day which worked out about as well as
>>> you should expect.)
>>
>>The point is that in a science fiction movie,
>>landing on a planet with Earth species (including
>>humans), Earth gravity, and where an Earth language
>>is spoken, doesn't imply that the planet is Earth,
>>but only that the film was made on Earth.
>>
>>I suppose they could throw in some Triffids to keep
>>us guessing. :-)
>
>Yep. Having most of the dialog in the movie being in apish with
>subtitles would have been box office poison. I don't know why it
>comes as a shock to so many people that the reason movies are made is
>to produce a profit.

When it came out? Certainly. That's why so many foreign films were
dubbed into English -- and the Germans, in the mid-70s, were much the
same, if not worse (they dubbed the /parrot/ in /For Your Eyes Only/).

Even into the 00s, some art-house film trailers had no dialogue. For
those I saw, the reason was immediately clear: they were subtitled,
and didn't want to reveal this fact in the trailer because it would
discourage some people from seeing it.

It was also believed that /everyone/ could understand English -- if
you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
to be understood.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t47a9e$l77$1@dont-email.me>

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From: morr...@epsilon3.comcon (Jay E. Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:19:07 -0500
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 by: Jay E. Morris - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 23:19 UTC

On 4/25/2022 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> It was also believed that/everyone/ could understand English -- if
> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
> to be understood.

SO IF I WANT TO INSURE THAT NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS CAN UNDERSTAND MY
MESSAGES....

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t47e7q$e15$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:26:36 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 00:26 UTC

On 4/25/2022 4:19 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> It was also believed that/everyone/  could understand English -- if
>> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
>> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
>> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
>> to be understood.
>
> SO IF I WANT TO INSURE THAT NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS CAN UNDERSTAND MY
> MESSAGES....

That is the stereotype of American tourists, yes.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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From: tkoe...@netcologne.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:11:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Thomas Koenig - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:11 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> schrieb:

> It was also believed that /everyone/ could understand English -- if
> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
> to be understood.

Often, I find US films to have a higher level of background
sounds vs. and music vs. what is spoken.

And yes, this makes it harder to understand, specially
for a non-native speaker.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:53:09 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:53 UTC

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:11:37 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> schrieb:
>
>> It was also believed that /everyone/ could understand English -- if
>> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
>> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
>> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
>> to be understood.
>
>Often, I find US films to have a higher level of background
>sounds vs. and music vs. what is spoken.
>
>And yes, this makes it harder to understand, specially
>for a non-native speaker.

That was just the trailer. How the film shown outside the USA is not
known.

Trailers often have differences from the films. For example, the
trailer to /One Hour Photo/ is clearly in 2-channel stereo, while the
film (played on a two-speaker TV) comes out as some sort of simulated
multispeaker soundtrack.

The two films I mentioned a while back where the dialogue was
inaudible, one because it /was/ inaudible and one because it was
drowned out the machine noises, /both/, in the trailers, had
perfectly-audible and understandable dialog. Only the films were mixed
to suppress the dialog.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 22:18 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:26:38 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 4:19 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> > On 4/25/2022 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> It was also believed that/everyone/ could understand English -- if
> >> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
> >> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
> >> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
> >> to be understood.
> >
> > SO IF I WANT TO INSURE THAT NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS CAN UNDERSTAND MY
> > MESSAGES....
> That is the stereotype of American tourists, yes.

In the Victorian period, it was the stereotype of *English* tourists on the Continent.
Generally on a Cook's tour, being a 'Karen' to some bemused French innkeeper. If
shouting loud enough didn't get the right reaction, the red faced son of Albion would
threaten the nuclear option: He would 'write a letter to the Times!'

Check Punch back issues for proof.

Pt

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

<t4a6cp$hed$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 18:31:04 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 01:31 UTC

On 4/26/2022 3:18 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:26:38 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 4/25/2022 4:19 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>>> On 4/25/2022 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> It was also believed that/everyone/ could understand English -- if
>>>> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
>>>> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
>>>> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
>>>> to be understood.
>>>
>>> SO IF I WANT TO INSURE THAT NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS CAN UNDERSTAND MY
>>> MESSAGES....
>> That is the stereotype of American tourists, yes.
>
> In the Victorian period, it was the stereotype of *English* tourists on the Continent.
> Generally on a Cook's tour, being a 'Karen' to some bemused French innkeeper. If
> shouting loud enough didn't get the right reaction, the red faced son of Albion would
> threaten the nuclear option: He would 'write a letter to the Times!'
>
> Check Punch back issues for proof.
>
One suspects that the same could be said of Roman tourists. :)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)

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Subject: Re: About "Planet of the Apes" (face slap!)
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 by: David Duffy - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 06:02 UTC

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 4/26/2022 3:18 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:26:38 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 4/25/2022 4:19 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>>>> On 4/25/2022 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> It was also believed that/everyone/ could understand English -- if
>>>>> you were loud enough. One of my DVDs has an "International Trailer"
>>>>> which differs only in that the English narrative is boosted about 1000
>>>>> times compared to the domestic trailer. Thus making it "loud enough"
>>>>> to be understood.
>>>>
>>>> SO IF I WANT TO INSURE THAT NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS CAN UNDERSTAND MY
>>>> MESSAGES....
>>> That is the stereotype of American tourists, yes.
>>
>> In the Victorian period, it was the stereotype of *English* tourists on the Continent.
>> Generally on a Cook's tour, being a 'Karen' to some bemused French innkeeper. If
>> shouting loud enough didn't get the right reaction, the red faced son of Albion would
>> threaten the nuclear option: He would 'write a letter to the Times!'
>>
>> Check Punch back issues for proof.
>>
> One suspects that the same could be said of Roman tourists. :)

I still remember a hostel in the Netherlands where the receptionist
was torturing a French tourist, asking loudly, "Speak English, please!"

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