....which I haven't seen and don't plan to...

....but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...

....but which the reviewer claims it isn't.

https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-workplace-pandemic.html

Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:56:51 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>
> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>
> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>
> https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-workplace-pandemic.html
>
> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

I have only seen a lengthy YouTube ad for it but I would consider it to be near-future SF thriller.

Brian

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:51:40 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>
> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>
> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>
> https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-
workplace-pandemic.html
>
> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

The review I'm happy to comment on. It's not a review.
It's yet another sermon about how the pandemic has changed us,
changed the world, etc. etc. It's hard to overstate how flooded
with this meme the news media have been in the English-speaking
nations and probably everywhere else. When I recall reading about
how Iron Curtain countries were filled with government billboards
exhorting the public to glorify the great socialist revolution,
I can't resist a nod to A.C. Clarke's dictum about magic:
Any sufficiently saturated media landscape is indistinguishable
from totalitarianism.

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 1:57:58 AM UTC-6, Charles Packer wrote:

> Any sufficiently saturated media landscape is indistinguishable
> from totalitarianism.

If that _were_ true, you would be afraid to post such things,
lest the secret police whisk you away in the middle of the night.

John Savard

On 17/04/2022 17:57, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:51:40 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>>
>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>
>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>
>> https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-
> workplace-pandemic.html
>>
>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>
>
> The review I'm happy to comment on. It's not a review.
> It's yet another sermon about how the pandemic has changed us,
> changed the world, etc. etc. It's hard to overstate how flooded
> with this meme the news media have been in the English-speaking
> nations and probably everywhere else. When I recall reading about
> how Iron Curtain countries were filled with government billboards
> exhorting the public to glorify the great socialist revolution,
> I can't resist a nod to A.C. Clarke's dictum about magic:
> Any sufficiently saturated media landscape is indistinguishable
> from totalitarianism.

I don't know if it is strictly a review, but one of ours - Peter Watts -
has a lengthy post about "Severance":
<https://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=10194>

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 2022-04-16, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:

[Severance]
> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.

(I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
author evidently wants to write about something else.)

> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.

The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
it is certainly science fictional.

The viewpoint character is well played by Adam Scott, and we see
both the outside and the work parts of his life, which gives us a
comprehensive perspective the character sorely lacks.

Five episodes in, the show is mostly an absurdist workplace satire,
with our "severed" office workers performing incomprehensible tasks
in a bizarre, underhandedly malevolant, passive-aggressively
threatening environment. The impressive company building is the
old Bell Labs Holmdel Complex in New Jersey, btw.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs_Holmdel_Complex

The show touches on such ideas as to whether the forcibly separated
selves are distinct persons or just parts of the same individual.
There is the underdeveloped problem of what it means if the
consequences of actions performed by one self are suffered by the
other self. Various aspects of corporate office life are skewered,
such as worthless incentives or a company handbook that has become
holy scripture.

It is another show that is not-so-subtly disorienting the viewer
by combining a contradictory mix of technological artifacts in the
setting. The main character has a smart phone, but the cars look
decades old, at his office desk he works on something that has the
outward appearance of a late-1970s computer terminal, and there are
only CRT screens.

I happen to like the absurdist humor. The shows is very well done
and seems to be building towards... something... so I'll keep
watching.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Sunday, 17 April 2022 at 00:56:51 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>
> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>
> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>
> https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-workplace-pandemic.html
>
> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

"Severance"

I haven't seen it and I haven't yet attempted the review,
but I'm reminded that (1) I myself have trouble remembering
non-work things in the working day, and work things in
the non-working day, and (2) perhaps I didn't ask last time
if anyone remembers a short story which proposes that
an ordinary human mind can't cope with being a spaceship
pilot, so, pilots are psychologically trained to have a complete
different personality that is responsible only for flight. This is
so separated that their normal personality does not experience
piloting at all. So, YASID.

I believe I recall that the character we mostly follow
is referred to as Jon I, and his pilot self is Jon II.
Jon I has to talk to the public about how great it is
being a space pilot. Jon I has been trained to talk
about it, but he hasn't done it.

I think I remember more, but I don't want to spoil
it for anyone reading.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:57:54 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:51:40 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>>
>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>
>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>
>> https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/future-tense-newsletter-severance-
>workplace-pandemic.html
>>
>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>
>
>The review I'm happy to comment on. It's not a review.
>It's yet another sermon about how the pandemic has changed us,
>changed the world, etc. etc. It's hard to overstate how flooded
>with this meme the news media have been in the English-speaking
>nations and probably everywhere else. When I recall reading about
>how Iron Curtain countries were filled with government billboards
>exhorting the public to glorify the great socialist revolution,
>I can't resist a nod to A.C. Clarke's dictum about magic:
>Any sufficiently saturated media landscape is indistinguishable
>from totalitarianism.

Sorry, but a sufficiently saturated media landscape doesn't disappear
people at midnight.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:47:11 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
<naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

>On 2022-04-16, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>[Severance]
>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>
>I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>
>(I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
>author evidently wants to write about something else.)
>
>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>
>The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
>complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
>Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
>have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
>life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
>it is certainly science fictional.

So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?
>
>The viewpoint character is well played by Adam Scott, and we see
>both the outside and the work parts of his life, which gives us a
>comprehensive perspective the character sorely lacks.
>
>Five episodes in, the show is mostly an absurdist workplace satire,
>with our "severed" office workers performing incomprehensible tasks
>in a bizarre, underhandedly malevolant, passive-aggressively
>threatening environment. The impressive company building is the
>old Bell Labs Holmdel Complex in New Jersey, btw.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs_Holmdel_Complex
>
>The show touches on such ideas as to whether the forcibly separated
>selves are distinct persons or just parts of the same individual.
>There is the underdeveloped problem of what it means if the
>consequences of actions performed by one self are suffered by the
>other self. Various aspects of corporate office life are skewered,
>such as worthless incentives or a company handbook that has become
>holy scripture.
>
>It is another show that is not-so-subtly disorienting the viewer
>by combining a contradictory mix of technological artifacts in the
>setting. The main character has a smart phone, but the cars look
>decades old, at his office desk he works on something that has the
>outward appearance of a late-1970s computer terminal, and there are
>only CRT screens.
>
>I happen to like the absurdist humor. The shows is very well done
>and seems to be building towards... something... so I'll keep
>watching.

In article <jvto5h1afja58akg9ui5unb5vp189a45g2@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:47:11 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
><naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-04-16, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>[Severance]
>>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>>
>>I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>>
>>(I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
>>author evidently wants to write about something else.)
>>
>>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>
>>The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
>>complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
>>Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
>>have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
>>life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
>>it is certainly science fictional.
>
>So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
>no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?
>>
>>The viewpoint character is well played by Adam Scott, and we see
>>both the outside and the work parts of his life, which gives us a
>>comprehensive perspective the character sorely lacks.
>>
>>Five episodes in, the show is mostly an absurdist workplace satire,
>>with our "severed" office workers performing incomprehensible tasks
>>in a bizarre, underhandedly malevolant, passive-aggressively
>>threatening environment. The impressive company building is the
>>old Bell Labs Holmdel Complex in New Jersey, btw.
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs_Holmdel_Complex
>>
>>The show touches on such ideas as to whether the forcibly separated
>>selves are distinct persons or just parts of the same individual.
>>There is the underdeveloped problem of what it means if the
>>consequences of actions performed by one self are suffered by the
>>other self. Various aspects of corporate office life are skewered,
>>such as worthless incentives or a company handbook that has become
>>holy scripture.
>>
>>It is another show that is not-so-subtly disorienting the viewer
>>by combining a contradictory mix of technological artifacts in the
>>setting. The main character has a smart phone, but the cars look
>>decades old, at his office desk he works on something that has the
>>outward appearance of a late-1970s computer terminal, and there are
>>only CRT screens.
>>
>>I happen to like the absurdist humor. The shows is very well done
>>and seems to be building towards... something... so I'll keep
>>watching.

Sounds a bit like the movie "Paycheck", from the Dick story except that
went in a thriller direction.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Ted wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Christian wrote:
>>> Dorothy wrote:
>>>
>>>[Severance]
>>>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>>>
>>>I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>>>
>>>(I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
>>>author evidently wants to write about something else.)
>>>
>>>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>>
>>>The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
>>>complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
>>>Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
>>>have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
>>>life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
>>>it is certainly science fictional.
>>
>>So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
>>no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?
>>>
>>>The viewpoint character is well played by Adam Scott, and we see
>>>both the outside and the work parts of his life, which gives us a
>>>comprehensive perspective the character sorely lacks.
>>>
>>>Five episodes in, the show is mostly an absurdist workplace satire,
>>>with our "severed" office workers performing incomprehensible tasks
>>>in a bizarre, underhandedly malevolant, passive-aggressively
>>>threatening environment. The impressive company building is the
>>>old Bell Labs Holmdel Complex in New Jersey, btw.
>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs_Holmdel_Complex
>>>
>>>The show touches on such ideas as to whether the forcibly separated
>>>selves are distinct persons or just parts of the same individual.
>>>There is the underdeveloped problem of what it means if the
>>>consequences of actions performed by one self are suffered by the
>>>other self. Various aspects of corporate office life are skewered,
>>>such as worthless incentives or a company handbook that has become
>>>holy scripture.
>>>
>>>It is another show that is not-so-subtly disorienting the viewer
>>>by combining a contradictory mix of technological artifacts in the
>>>setting. The main character has a smart phone, but the cars look
>>>decades old, at his office desk he works on something that has the
>>>outward appearance of a late-1970s computer terminal, and there are
>>>only CRT screens.
>>>
>>>I happen to like the absurdist humor. The shows is very well done
>>>and seems to be building towards... something... so I'll keep
>>>watching.
>
> Sounds a bit like the movie "Paycheck", from the Dick story except that
> went in a thriller direction.

My thoughts precisely, Ted. A photo journal of Bell Labs Homdel,
mentioned by Christian above, appears at a website similar to yours
(columbiaclosings.com) writ large:

https://www.abandonedamerica.us/bell-labs-holmdel-nj-the#photo

BTW, the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit is another favorite in the genre:

https://www.detroityes.com/fabulous-ruins-of-detroit/index.php

The PKD short places protagonist Jennings interstitially between big
government and big business. But Jennings is nimble enough to avoid a
titanic mashup as he navigates between a rock and a hard place.
The short's motive to excise employment engrams is to obfuscate a
subversive corporate project. Apparently _Severance_ still needs to
reveal its own rationale as to why what goes on at work stays at work.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:57:18 -0000 (UTC), Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>Ted wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Christian wrote:
>>>> Dorothy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[Severance]
>>>>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>>>>
>>>>I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>>>>
>>>>(I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
>>>>author evidently wants to write about something else.)
>>>>
>>>>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>>>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>>>
>>>>The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
>>>>complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
>>>>Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
>>>>have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
>>>>life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
>>>>it is certainly science fictional.
>>>
>>>So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
>>>no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?
>>>>
>>>>The viewpoint character is well played by Adam Scott, and we see
>>>>both the outside and the work parts of his life, which gives us a
>>>>comprehensive perspective the character sorely lacks.
>>>>
>>>>Five episodes in, the show is mostly an absurdist workplace satire,
>>>>with our "severed" office workers performing incomprehensible tasks
>>>>in a bizarre, underhandedly malevolant, passive-aggressively
>>>>threatening environment. The impressive company building is the
>>>>old Bell Labs Holmdel Complex in New Jersey, btw.
>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs_Holmdel_Complex
>>>>
>>>>The show touches on such ideas as to whether the forcibly separated
>>>>selves are distinct persons or just parts of the same individual.
>>>>There is the underdeveloped problem of what it means if the
>>>>consequences of actions performed by one self are suffered by the
>>>>other self. Various aspects of corporate office life are skewered,
>>>>such as worthless incentives or a company handbook that has become
>>>>holy scripture.
>>>>
>>>>It is another show that is not-so-subtly disorienting the viewer
>>>>by combining a contradictory mix of technological artifacts in the
>>>>setting. The main character has a smart phone, but the cars look
>>>>decades old, at his office desk he works on something that has the
>>>>outward appearance of a late-1970s computer terminal, and there are
>>>>only CRT screens.
>>>>
>>>>I happen to like the absurdist humor. The shows is very well done
>>>>and seems to be building towards... something... so I'll keep
>>>>watching.
>>
>> Sounds a bit like the movie "Paycheck", from the Dick story except that
>> went in a thriller direction.
>
>My thoughts precisely, Ted. A photo journal of Bell Labs Homdel,
>mentioned by Christian above, appears at a website similar to yours
>(columbiaclosings.com) writ large:
>
>https://www.abandonedamerica.us/bell-labs-holmdel-nj-the#photo

That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
make a couple of bucks.

>BTW, the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit is another favorite in the genre:
>
>https://www.detroityes.com/fabulous-ruins-of-detroit/index.php
>
>The PKD short places protagonist Jennings interstitially between big
>government and big business. But Jennings is nimble enough to avoid a
>titanic mashup as he navigates between a rock and a hard place.
> The short's motive to excise employment engrams is to obfuscate a
>subversive corporate project. Apparently _Severance_ still needs to
>reveal its own rationale as to why what goes on at work stays at work.
>
>Danke,

On 18/04/22 08:27, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:47:11 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
> <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-16, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>> [Severance]
>>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>>
>> I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>>
>> (I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the
>> author evidently wants to write about something else.)
>>
>>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>>
>> The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
>> complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
>> Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves
>> have no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside
>> life. That separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so
>> it is certainly science fictional.
>
> So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
> no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?
>snip

I am currently reading _The Absolute Book_ by Elizabeth Knox, in which a
character has his memories erased every 200 years as a tithe to Hell.
She carefully explains how this character can continue functioning after
memory erasure which doesn't affect personal physical control nor
emotional responses to objects or living entities.
This scenario is not as complex as the one you are objecting to, but,
given the number of programmers here, a few sneaky GOTOs might fix that.

J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:

> So let's see, you hire an engineer and the engineer while at work has
> no memory of engineering school. What could _possibly_ go wrong?

Obviously, said engineer would be promoted to management right away.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:25:57 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:57:54 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
> wrote:
>>
>>The review I'm happy to comment on. It's not a review.
>>It's yet another sermon about how the pandemic has changed us, changed
>>the world, etc. etc. It's hard to overstate how flooded with this meme
>>the news media have been in the English-speaking nations and probably
>>everywhere else. When I recall reading about how Iron Curtain countries
>>were filled with government billboards exhorting the public to glorify
>>the great socialist revolution, I can't resist a nod to A.C. Clarke's
>>dictum about magic:
>>Any sufficiently saturated media landscape is indistinguishable from
>>totalitarianism.
>
> Sorry, but a sufficiently saturated media landscape doesn't disappear
> people at midnight.

You're absolutely right, as is Quadibloc earlier. It's the
totalitarian leanings of the journalism trade that are at issue
here. They've managed to hide in plain sight, but at least it's
taking place in an open society.

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:57:18 -0000 (UTC), Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>

>>My thoughts precisely, Ted. A photo journal of Bell Labs Homdel,
>>mentioned by Christian above, appears at a website similar to yours
>>(columbiaclosings.com) writ large:
>>
>>https://www.abandonedamerica.us/bell-labs-holmdel-nj-the#photo
>
>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
>make a couple of bucks.

Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.

"Long distance is still the most profitable business in America,
next to importing illegal cocaine."
Joe P Nacchio (AT&T long-lines chief)

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 4:46:46 AM UTC-6, Charles Packer wrote:

> You're absolutely right, as is Quadibloc earlier. It's the
> totalitarian leanings of the journalism trade that are at issue
> here. They've managed to hide in plain sight, but at least it's
> taking place in an open society.

The People's Republic of China is much less repressive than it was
under Mao. But it's still considered to be totalitarian since, for example,
all the churches in China are operated under the close control of the
government. Web sites with more than a certain number of viewers have
to be closely regulated, and so on.

No power independent of the government may exist. That is the principle
of totalitarianism.

Yes, there is indeed a left-wing bias in the mainstream media.

But an attitude of "our way or the highway" isn't necessarily _totalitarian_
when it comes to things like laws that are contrived at making it harder
for black people to vote.

In some states, black neighborhoods have significantly fewer polling
stations per capita than white neighborhoods, and these states also
want to make it illegal to provide food and water to people standing in
line to vote - on the basis that they are being bribed or influenced, I
suppose.

It's the combination of _both_ facts that make it reprehensible.

The attitude that this is absolutely reprehensible and intolerable, and
that a way must be found to put a stop to it, even if the majority of
the voters in the state think such measures are just fine, even if
the only way to do so would be controversial because its constitutionality
would be questionable...

is _not_ totalitarian.

It is... moralistic. It is the attitude that "all men are created equal"
is what should have taken total precedence over everything else
from July 4, 1776 onwards; that the Constitution should never have
authorized slavery - and, since it did, the American people would have
had no legitimate complaint if the slaves rebelled and set up their
own government instead to rule the nation as a whole, including its
white inhabitants.

Don't ever do wrong. Don't ever commit aggression. If you do, there
_should_ be consequences.

A totalitarian attitude is, instead, don't ever disobey me - as I,
knowingly and willfully, commit aggression against you. As I
enslave you without any right for my own ego and power and
wealth.

No matter how many people voted for Trump, the media found Trump
to be unrighteous. And I don't find grounds to argue with that.

Just before the pandemic, I read an article about how... Trump was
likely to win the next election, because sitting Presidents are seldom
defeated when the economy is going well, as it was.

Then the pandemic comes along, and Trump goes and says no
special precautions are needed, because there's no real difference
between COVID-19 and the 'flu that comes along every fall. When
it was already very clearly apparent from available information in
the news that COVID-19 was vastly more dangerous, with a *real*
chance of killing even young, healthy people.

At least when Bush lied about the effects of the dust from 9/11, he
was trying to prevent terrorists from succeeding in shutting down
the U.S. stock market and causing more chaos. This lie was strictly
for personal political advantage.

Contempt for someone who ended up killing about a hundred thousand
people in an ill-founded attempt to boost his standing in the polls? What
*other* attitude could you possibly expect anyone with even half a brain
*to* take?

Something has gone badly wrong.

Over the long term, the remedies are hardly totalitarian. Ensuring an
adequate educational system in every state in the Union, so that the
next generation of American children are armed with skills in critical
thinking - and can't easily be fooled into swallowing conspiracy
theories or any other type of nonsense intended to fool them into
supporting those who would act against their interests.

After January 6, however, it seems to many of them, as it does to me,
that the Republican Party has gone completely off the rails. They're
prepared to make the United States a dictatorship to keep themselves
in power.

In that case, it's vital to make sure they can't get the power to do that.

Wait, doesn't that mean that the Democratic Party would have to do exactly
what we're afraid the Republicans are about to do?

Good question! *However*, _if_ the Republicans _are_ really planning to do
that, then it actually is preferable if, instead, those who don't _want_ to destroy
democracy... suspend it for a while... to prevent it from being permanently
destroyed by those whose goal that is.

Yes. The rhetoric _has_ ratcheted up to "second Civil War" levels, and that is
unfortunate. But the experience of the Trump administration is such that it
does not seem to many that the threat is being exaggerated.

The "good" news is that Joe Biden, at least, takes his oath to preserve and
protect the Constitution quite seriously, and _he_ isn't buying the notion that
the only way to save democracy is to prohibit the Republican Party from
participating in the next election.

What is now unfolding in Ukraine, however, means that ineffectual is now
a hard sell. The latest rumors - I can't really call them news - are that Trump
won't run in 2024, because of health reasons, whether real or claimed.

However, the likeliest outcome is still that the Republican Presidential candidate
will win in 2024, and that he will be someone... with policies very similar to those
of Donald Trump.

And he is _not_ going to succeed in getting Russia out of Ukraine the way
Reagan succeeded in getting the hostages back from Iran even before he
was inaugurated, while Carter was still in office. Unlike Iran, Russia has
nukes, and so isn't scared of anything.

Unlike Trump, though, he won't have been loaned the money to get started
again after a bankruptcy by Russian oligarchs, which is _one_ bright spot...
but I still see the world's future as potentially dim indeed. Basically, like
the novel "Fatherland", except with Russian fascists instead of German
fascists calling the shots.

And with a Republican President instead of a Democratic one.

Despite Bernie Sanders' naivete about Venezuela and Cuba, I think I'd
rather have him as your President. He may not realize what is going on
in those countries, but that doesn't mean he is inclined to follow their
example.

John Savard

begin fnord
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> ...which I haven't seen and don't plan to...
>
> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?

Another poster has gone into more depth (and I agree with them), so I'll
just say that I like it a lot and I do not think you would enjoy it.

--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:56:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
>>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
>>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
>>make a couple of bucks.
>
>Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.

I remember paying about $20/week for a 40 minute call between Winnipeg
and southern Ontario during our engagement in the early 80s. I was a
good letter writer but for sure those calls were a big part of my
budget - basically it was finish my masters, move west to my new job,
had enough $$$ for some basic apartment furniture and her ring,
proposed two months after graduation and was married 6 months later.

We didn't have much but we did have each other.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:53:36 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:56:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
>>>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
>>>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
>>>make a couple of bucks.
>>
>>Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.
>
>I remember paying about $20/week for a 40 minute call between Winnipeg
>and southern Ontario during our engagement in the early 80s. I was a
>good letter writer but for sure those calls were a big part of my
>budget - basically it was finish my masters, move west to my new job,
>had enough $$$ for some basic apartment furniture and her ring,
>proposed two months after graduation and was married 6 months later.
>
>We didn't have much but we did have each other.

One does wonder whether the broadband and cellular revolutions would
have happened if AT&T had remained the phone company. But I'd be fine
with the high phone bills if we could have Bell Labs back.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 07:58:12 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 4:46:46 AM UTC-6, Charles Packer wrote:
>
>> You're absolutely right, as is Quadibloc earlier. It's the totalitarian
>> leanings of the journalism trade that are at issue here. They've
>> managed to hide in plain sight, but at least it's taking place in an
>> open society.
>
> The People's Republic of China is much less repressive than it was under
> Mao. But it's still considered to be totalitarian since, for example,
> all the churches in China are operated under the close control of the
> government. Web sites with more than a certain number of viewers have to
> be closely regulated, and so on.
>
> No power independent of the government may exist. That is the principle
> of totalitarianism.

I was using totalitarian in a broader sense of total central
planning, government or not. For example, Christian Science
was totalitarian, in that the Mother Church dictated a single
script to be followed at all of its member churches.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:47:11 +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> On 2022-04-16, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
> [Severance]
>> Has anyone seen it? Any comments on the show or the review?
>
> I'm in the middle of it. The show, I mean.
>
> (I just glanced at the Slate review. It's forgettable and the author
> evidently wants to write about something else.)
>
>> ...but which appearst to be SF within the meaning of the Act...
>> ...but which the reviewer claims it isn't.
>
> The main conceit is that people undergo a procedure that creates a
> complete mental separation between work and the rest of their life.
> Their outside selves have no memory of work, and their work selves have
> no memory of their current and--implausibly--former outside life. That
> separation involves the implantation of a "chip", so it is certainly
> science fictional.
>

"Severance"
https://tinyurl.com/3jj3m94j
has nothing on the Manhattan Project
https://tinyurl.com/2p8v67hj
Those Tennessee farm girls didn't know what they were producing

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 4:31:42 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:53:36 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:56:30 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
> >>>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
> >>>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
> >>>make a couple of bucks.
> >>
> >>Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.
> >
> >I remember paying about $20/week for a 40 minute call between Winnipeg
> >and southern Ontario during our engagement in the early 80s. I was a
> >good letter writer but for sure those calls were a big part of my
> >budget - basically it was finish my masters, move west to my new job,
> >had enough $$$ for some basic apartment furniture and her ring,
> >proposed two months after graduation and was married 6 months later.
> >
> >We didn't have much but we did have each other.
> One does wonder whether the broadband and cellular revolutions would
> have happened if AT&T had remained the phone company. But I'd be fine
> with the high phone bills if we could have Bell Labs back.

Probably not. The Carterfone decision did allow direct linking of customer
HW, but Bell still controlled the rates.

Local calls were still untimed though. ISPs maintained numerous POPs
all over the place, so you could dial into the net at local rates from almost
anywhere.

pt

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:56:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:57:18 -0000 (UTC), Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>
>>>My thoughts precisely, Ted. A photo journal of Bell Labs Homdel,
>>>mentioned by Christian above, appears at a website similar to yours
>>>(columbiaclosings.com) writ large:
>>>
>>>https://www.abandonedamerica.us/bell-labs-holmdel-nj-the#photo
>>
>>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
>>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
>>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
>>make a couple of bucks.
>
>Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.
>
> "Long distance is still the most profitable business in America,
> next to importing illegal cocaine."
> Joe P Nacchio (AT&T long-lines chief)

As /The President's Analyst/ pointed out, /everybody/ hates The Phone
Company.

I still remember the squeals when AT&T learned it would actually have
to /compete/ with other long distance carriers -- it couldn't just
keep all the customers it had unless they switched, they had to make a
/choice/.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:30:32 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:56:30 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
> >J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:57:18 -0000 (UTC), Don <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>>My thoughts precisely, Ted. A photo journal of Bell Labs Homdel,
> >>>mentioned by Christian above, appears at a website similar to yours
> >>>(columbiaclosings.com) writ large:
> >>>
> >>>https://www.abandonedamerica.us/bell-labs-holmdel-nj-the#photo
> >>
> >>That sort of photo literally makes me cry. In the vast history of
> >>government stupidity, the destruction of Bell Labs one of the very
> >>stupidest things that any government ever did. And all so MCI could
> >>make a couple of bucks.
> >
> >Right, nobody minded paying $21.00/minute (adjusted to 2022 $$) to call the UK.

> I still remember the squeals when AT&T learned it would actually have
> to /compete/ with other long distance carriers -- it couldn't just
> keep all the customers it had unless they switched, they had to make a
> /choice/.

I can remember when a transatlantic call had to be booked in advance.
Calling Grandma (in California) from Europe was only done on Christmas
and birthdays, and done quickly.

[I didn't actually mind too much - she was a guilt-trip queen]

pt