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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Isaiah 9:6

SubjectAuthor
* Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Dorothy J Heydt
|`- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
|`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Charles Packer
|  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
|   |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Doctor
|   ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   || `- Re: Isaiah 9:6The Doctor
|   |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |       +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Michael F. Stemper
|   |       +* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       |+- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
|   |       |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
|   |       | +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |       | |+- Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
|   |       | |`- Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       | `- Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |        `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |         `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |          `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Charles Packer
`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
 `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Dorothy J Heydt
  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       +* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Jack Bohn
       |||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||| `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Jack Bohn
       ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||| +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||| +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||| |`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       ||||  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       ||| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||  +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Scott Lurndal
       |||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       |||   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||    `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
       || `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||  +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||   +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||       `- Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       || |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || ||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       || |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       || | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
       || |  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       || `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       ||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||   `- Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |   +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       |   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |     +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       |      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Kevrob
       |       `- Re: Isaiah 9:6William Hyde
       `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
        +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
        `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
         +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
         +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
         `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Kevrob

Pages:12345
Isaiah 9:6

<75776dc1-1eb6-4b41-b1e6-7ccc5992fc41n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:55 UTC

The Old Testament verse

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be
upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the
Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

is generally considered to refer to Jesus.

However, I've just learned that some people have other ideas:

https://relevantmagazine.com/current/a-billboard-featuring-donald-trump-as-the-second-coming-of-jesus-has-been-taken-down/

Oh, and Romans 8:17 are:

"And if chidren, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."

Well, they got it right that there's something about Joint Heirs in it.

Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<rBABKC.1ppp@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Message-ID: <rBABKC.1ppp@kithrup.com>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 02:14:36 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Tue, 3 May 2022 02:14 UTC

In article <75776dc1-1eb6-4b41-b1e6-7ccc5992fc41n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>The Old Testament verse
>
>"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government
>shall be
>upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the
>Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."
>
>is generally considered to refer to Jesus.
>
>However, I've just learned that some people have other ideas:
>
>https://relevantmagazine.com/current/a-billboard-featuring-donald-trump-as-the-second-coming-of-jesus-has-been-taken-down/
>
>Oh, and Romans 8:17 are:
>
>"And if chidren, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
>that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."
>
>Well, they got it right that there's something about Joint Heirs in it.
>
>Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
>lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.

Oh, don't tempt me. I've been TRYing not to hate my fellow man.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<aq617hdksac3a5j19l3rheiho3vkvko31k@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 3 May 2022 03:03 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 18:55:49 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>The Old Testament verse
>
>"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be
>upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the
>Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."
>
>is generally considered to refer to Jesus.
>
>However, I've just learned that some people have other ideas:
>
>https://relevantmagazine.com/current/a-billboard-featuring-donald-trump-as-the-second-coming-of-jesus-has-been-taken-down/

If I was a believer I would believe that there was a _special_ Hell
for whoever paid to have that put up. One a lot worse than the one
reserved for people who talk in theaters.

>Oh, and Romans 8:17 are:
>
>"And if chidren, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
>that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."
>
>Well, they got it right that there's something about Joint Heirs in it.
>
>Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
>lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.
>
>John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 3 May 2022 05:21 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> If I was a believer I would believe that there was a _special_ Hell
> for whoever paid to have that put up. One a lot worse than the one
> reserved for people who talk in theaters.

Of course, if that verse _were_ a Bible prophecy about Trump, perhaps what
he will be known as is the Clown Prince of Peace.
You know, after running away from Batman, he falls into a vat of chemicals...

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<81d57315-418d-424f-97f9-6fb280fb4470n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 3 May 2022 05:24 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 8:28:10 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <75776dc1-1eb6-4b41...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> >Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
> >lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.

> Oh, don't tempt me. I've been TRYing not to hate my fellow man.

For the most part, I have found it easy enough to hate the sin
rather than the sinner... it's those who have, from the shadows,
bankrolled the groups that have deluded so many about vaccines
and COVID-19 that have me upset.

What motive rich people would have to weaken America like this
is hard to understand, since only a strong America makes it possible
for rich people to spend their money in peace.

What billionaire would want to live in Ukraine right now?

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: Charles Packer - Tue, 3 May 2022 08:00 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 22:21:33 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> If I was a believer I would believe that there was a _special_ Hell for
>> whoever paid to have that put up. One a lot worse than the one reserved
>> for people who talk in theaters.
>
> Of course, if that verse _were_ a Bible prophecy about Trump, perhaps
> what he will be known as is the Clown Prince of Peace.
> You know, after running away from Batman, he falls into a vat of
> chemicals...

Whatever. Remember that we are actually now in the time period
of millenarian prophecy. Anything could happen. It could come
from the actual believers and satirists in equal measure.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 09:25:46 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:25 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 08:00:07 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
wrote:

>On Mon, 02 May 2022 22:21:33 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> If I was a believer I would believe that there was a _special_ Hell for
>>> whoever paid to have that put up. One a lot worse than the one reserved
>>> for people who talk in theaters.
>>
>> Of course, if that verse _were_ a Bible prophecy about Trump, perhaps
>> what he will be known as is the Clown Prince of Peace.
>> You know, after running away from Batman, he falls into a vat of
>> chemicals...
>
>Whatever. Remember that we are actually now in the time period
>of millenarian prophecy. Anything could happen. It could come
>from the actual believers and satirists in equal measure.

That's what they thought 1000 years ago, when the /first/ millenium
drew to a close. Some things never change.

As it happens, I am reading /There's A New World Coming/, a load of
codswallop presented as a commentary on Revelation by Hal Lindsey
(using the KJV as emended by the author).

Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
John's.

In fairness, I should point out that, even if the words God chose were
identical to the words John would have chosen had he been allowed to
make such a choice, they are /still/ not John's words but, rather,
God's. Per his clearly-stated assertion, that is. YMMV. Mine certainly
does.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 09:31:13 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:31 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 18:55:49 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>The Old Testament verse
>
>"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be
>upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the
>Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."
>
>is generally considered to refer to Jesus.
>
>However, I've just learned that some people have other ideas:
>
>https://relevantmagazine.com/current/a-billboard-featuring-donald-trump-as-the-second-coming-of-jesus-has-been-taken-down/
>
>Oh, and Romans 8:17 are:
>
>"And if chidren, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
>that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."
>
>Well, they got it right that there's something about Joint Heirs in it.
>
>Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
>lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.

Religious fanaticism takes some very strange terms.

But allow me to point out that paying for billboard space is /not/ a
form of violence, however idiotic the message.

Some of these groups have been seeking a "culture war" for some time.
They have, of course, been projecting this desire onto their
"enemies", but it has become clear who the instigators actually are.
The alleged draft Supreme Court document occupying the news may give
them what they want -- a culture war. Which they will lose, as they
have lost steadily over the last 50 years or more.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:58 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:

> Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
> word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
> we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
> between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
> John's.

As the Bible is absolutely inerrant, in addition to being _inspired_ by
the Holy Spirit, one presumably has to throw in *proofread* by the
Holy Spirit as well. I'm not sure that should be a problem for an
omnipotent God.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Message-ID: <rBBL9L.22EA@kithrup.com>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 18:41:45 GMT
References: <75776dc1-1eb6-4b41-b1e6-7ccc5992fc41n@googlegroups.com> <btl27hheb5ih05n5n8aa8q1knkirdltpj0@4ax.com>
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Tue, 3 May 2022 18:41 UTC

In article <btl27hheb5ih05n5n8aa8q1knkirdltpj0@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 2 May 2022 18:55:49 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>The Old Testament verse
>>
>>"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the
>government shall be
>>upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the
>>Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."
>>
>>is generally considered to refer to Jesus.
>>
>>However, I've just learned that some people have other ideas:
>>
>>https://relevantmagazine.com/current/a-billboard-featuring-donald-trump-as-the-second-coming-of-jesus-has-been-taken-down/
>>
>>Oh, and Romans 8:17 are:
>>
>>"And if chidren, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ;
>if so be
>>that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."
>>
>>Well, they got it right that there's something about Joint Heirs in it.
>>
>>Perhaps they're expecting Trump supporters to be thrown to the
>>lions for not being vaccinated or wearing masks.
>
>Religious fanaticism takes some very strange terms.
>
>But allow me to point out that paying for billboard space is /not/ a
>form of violence, however idiotic the message.
>
>Some of these groups have been seeking a "culture war" for some time.
>They have, of course, been projecting this desire onto their
>"enemies", but it has become clear who the instigators actually are.
>The alleged draft Supreme Court document occupying the news may give
>them what they want -- a culture war. Which they will lose, as they
>have lost steadily over the last 50 years or more.

It gets better than that (for some values of "better").

The director of a Christian television show (for some values of
"Christian") put up some billboards advertising the show and then
graffiti'd them, apparently in hope of starting, or encouraging,
a culture war.

The graffiti were surprisingly mild (for some values of
"surprisingly;" they may have been the worst the guy knew).

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/the-chosen-devil-billboards-christian-media-jenkins.html

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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From: doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:56:55 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: The Doctor - Tue, 3 May 2022 20:56 UTC

In article <beca0f91-7f15-4923-af57-1cda3ca9c44an@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
>> word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
>> we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
>> between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
>> John's.
>
>As the Bible is absolutely inerrant, in addition to being _inspired_ by
>the Holy Spirit, one presumably has to throw in *proofread* by the
>Holy Spirit as well. I'm not sure that should be a problem for an
>omnipotent God.
>
>John Savard

But of course, man corrupts.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
That expert is worthless who cannot admit what he does not know. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: Charles Packer - Wed, 4 May 2022 10:38 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:25:46 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Tue, 03 May 2022 08:00:07 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 02 May 2022 22:21:33 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I was a believer I would believe that there was a _special_ Hell
>>>> for whoever paid to have that put up. One a lot worse than the one
>>>> reserved for people who talk in theaters.
>>>
>>> Of course, if that verse _were_ a Bible prophecy about Trump, perhaps
>>> what he will be known as is the Clown Prince of Peace.
>>> You know, after running away from Batman, he falls into a vat of
>>> chemicals...
>>
>>Whatever. Remember that we are actually now in the time period of
>>millenarian prophecy. Anything could happen. It could come from the
>>actual believers and satirists in equal measure.
>
> That's what they thought 1000 years ago, when the /first/ millenium drew
> to a close. Some things never change.
>

I should emphasize that when I said anything could happen, the
"anything" would of course be an entirely human creation. There
is something that has changed since 1000. That's the existence
of mass media capable of creating large-scale illusions.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 4 May 2022 10:43 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:52:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> The director of a Christian television show (for some values of
> "Christian")

I see the title of the show was "The Chosen", and it was about Jesus
and His disciples.
I will resist the impulse to automatically conclude from the choice
of title that it must be anti-Semitic...
But that's the thing. Normally, I would have applauded the news that
Roe vs. Wade was going to be overturned, saving the lives of many
innocent unborn children.
But since the _only_ states in a hurry to outlaw abortion if they get the
chance are states that voted for Trump, states that want to hamper
access by black people to the polls as a tactic to favor the Republicans,
states that resisted public health measures needed to stop the spread
of the deadly killer COVID-19 virus... oh, and never forget, Brett Kavanaugh
sits on that court... it's hard for me to think of this as anything but the work
of the Devil.
Trump has made the "culture war" discourse far more toxic than it had
previously been.

John Savard

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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:10 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
>> word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
>> we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
>> between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
>> John's.
>
>As the Bible is absolutely inerrant, in addition to being _inspired_ by
>the Holy Spirit, one presumably has to throw in *proofread* by the
>Holy Spirit as well. I'm not sure that should be a problem for an
>omnipotent God.

So far, Lindsey hasn't made the "inerrancy" claim.

But perhaps he cannot conceive of any alternative being possible.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:11 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:56:55 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
Doctor) wrote:

>In article <beca0f91-7f15-4923-af57-1cda3ca9c44an@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
>>> word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
>>> we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
>>> between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
>>> John's.
>>
>>As the Bible is absolutely inerrant, in addition to being _inspired_ by
>>the Holy Spirit, one presumably has to throw in *proofread* by the
>>Holy Spirit as well. I'm not sure that should be a problem for an
>>omnipotent God.
>>
>>John Savard
>
>But of course, man corrupts.

As the documentary history amply demonstrates.

Even when they tried real hard not to drop or add anything.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 09:24:05 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:24 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:52:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> The director of a Christian television show (for some values of
>> "Christian")
>
>I see the title of the show was "The Chosen", and it was about Jesus
>and His disciples.
>I will resist the impulse to automatically conclude from the choice
>of title that it must be anti-Semitic...
>But that's the thing. Normally, I would have applauded the news that
>Roe vs. Wade was going to be overturned, saving the lives of many
>innocent unborn children.
>But since the _only_ states in a hurry to outlaw abortion if they get the
>chance are states that voted for Trump, states that want to hamper
>access by black people to the polls as a tactic to favor the Republicans,
>states that resisted public health measures needed to stop the spread
>of the deadly killer COVID-19 virus... oh, and never forget, Brett Kavanaugh
>sits on that court... it's hard for me to think of this as anything but the work
>of the Devil.
>Trump has made the "culture war" discourse far more toxic than it had
>previously been.

Washington State, IIRC, amended its Constitution two years before Roe
v Wade to legalize abortion. Others may have done the same. Several
have done the opposite.

So some States may need to do something on the issue if Roe falls, but
many have theirs locked and loaded (so to speak).

The interesting questions are things like this:
-- a lot of "values voters" are from religious traditions that
generally /discouraged/ participation in politics, including voting,
as part of separating themselves from the world. Those who are also
one-issue voters, and whose issue is abortion, might revert to form
and stop voting if they believe they have won
-- a lot of traditional Republicans may be voting Republican because
that is what their family has done since (say) the 60s, but do not
actually agree with the current position on the social issues.
Overturning Roe might convince them to either not vote or even vote
Democratic, at least for a while.

Both sides appear to be using the leak to raise money. I suspect they
will use the decision, if Roe is overturned, to get their supporters
to go out and vote, regardless of Republican redistricting.

BTW, has anyone considered the possibility that, as part of making a
decision, those one each side of the issue prepare /exactly/ the sort
of thing that was leaked so that both sides can see just why they are
thinking what they are thinking? And poke holes in the arguments of
the other side?

That said, if we /must/ have a political Supreme Court, perhaps we
should elect a new one every two years and be done with it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<1245b7a0-3560-4975-87ab-89c815846b40n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Wed, 4 May 2022 19:18 UTC

On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 17:24:12 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2022 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:52:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >
> >> The director of a Christian television show (for some values of
> >> "Christian")
> >
> >I see the title of the show was "The Chosen", and it was about Jesus
> >and His disciples.
> >I will resist the impulse to automatically conclude from the choice
> >of title that it must be anti-Semitic...
> >But that's the thing. Normally, I would have applauded the news that
> >Roe vs. Wade was going to be overturned, saving the lives of many
> >innocent unborn children.
> >But since the _only_ states in a hurry to outlaw abortion if they get the
> >chance are states that voted for Trump, states that want to hamper
> >access by black people to the polls as a tactic to favor the Republicans,
> >states that resisted public health measures needed to stop the spread
> >of the deadly killer COVID-19 virus... oh, and never forget, Brett Kavanaugh
> >sits on that court... it's hard for me to think of this as anything but the work
> >of the Devil.
> >Trump has made the "culture war" discourse far more toxic than it had
> >previously been.
> Washington State, IIRC, amended its Constitution two years before Roe
> v Wade to legalize abortion. Others may have done the same. Several
> have done the opposite.
>
> So some States may need to do something on the issue if Roe falls, but
> many have theirs locked and loaded (so to speak).
>
> The interesting questions are things like this:
> -- a lot of "values voters" are from religious traditions that
> generally /discouraged/ participation in politics, including voting,
> as part of separating themselves from the world. Those who are also
> one-issue voters, and whose issue is abortion, might revert to form
> and stop voting if they believe they have won
> -- a lot of traditional Republicans may be voting Republican because
> that is what their family has done since (say) the 60s, but do not
> actually agree with the current position on the social issues.
> Overturning Roe might convince them to either not vote or even vote
> Democratic, at least for a while.
>
> Both sides appear to be using the leak to raise money. I suspect they
> will use the decision, if Roe is overturned, to get their supporters
> to go out and vote, regardless of Republican redistricting.
>
> BTW, has anyone considered the possibility that, as part of making a
> decision, those one each side of the issue prepare /exactly/ the sort
> of thing that was leaked so that both sides can see just why they are
> thinking what they are thinking? And poke holes in the arguments of
> the other side?
>
> That said, if we /must/ have a political Supreme Court, perhaps we
> should elect a new one every two years and be done with it.

If we are discussing this coming court decision,
please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
dead on Tuesday?

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<t4uru2$280n$47@gallifrey.nk.ca>

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From: doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 21:41:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: NetKnow News
Message-ID: <t4uru2$280n$47@gallifrey.nk.ca>
References: <75776dc1-1eb6-4b41-b1e6-7ccc5992fc41n@googlegroups.com> <beca0f91-7f15-4923-af57-1cda3ca9c44an@googlegroups.com> <t4s4un$h7l$16@gallifrey.nk.ca> <jb957hhebgck32veve0obp4al9quluti7b@4ax.com>
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 by: The Doctor - Wed, 4 May 2022 21:41 UTC

In article <jb957hhebgck32veve0obp4al9quluti7b@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:56:55 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
>Doctor) wrote:
>
>>In article <beca0f91-7f15-4923-af57-1cda3ca9c44an@googlegroups.com>,
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> Despite having clearly stated that God Himself chose each and every
>>>> word (presumably in the original language), he repeatedly asserts that
>>>> we are reading John's /own/ description of what he saw. Thus he falls
>>>> between two stools: the words are God's -- but they aren't, they are
>>>> John's.
>>>
>>>As the Bible is absolutely inerrant, in addition to being _inspired_ by
>>>the Holy Spirit, one presumably has to throw in *proofread* by the
>>>Holy Spirit as well. I'm not sure that should be a problem for an
>>>omnipotent God.
>>>
>>>John Savard
>>
>>But of course, man corrupts.
>
>As the documentary history amply demonstrates.
>
>Even when they tried real hard not to drop or add anything.

Sad but true.

>--
>"I begin to envy Petronius."
>"I have envied him long since."

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
Ontario, stop the madness and on 2 June vote Liberal! Beware https://mindspring.com

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 19:58:56 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 5 May 2022 00:58 UTC

On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Wednesday, 4 May 2022 at 17:24:12 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:52:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>> The director of a Christian television show (for some values of
>>>> "Christian")
>>>
>>> I see the title of the show was "The Chosen", and it was about Jesus
>>> and His disciples.
>>> I will resist the impulse to automatically conclude from the choice
>>> of title that it must be anti-Semitic...
>>> But that's the thing. Normally, I would have applauded the news that
>>> Roe vs. Wade was going to be overturned, saving the lives of many
>>> innocent unborn children.
>>> But since the _only_ states in a hurry to outlaw abortion if they get the
>>> chance are states that voted for Trump, states that want to hamper
>>> access by black people to the polls as a tactic to favor the Republicans,
>>> states that resisted public health measures needed to stop the spread
>>> of the deadly killer COVID-19 virus... oh, and never forget, Brett Kavanaugh
>>> sits on that court... it's hard for me to think of this as anything but the work
>>> of the Devil.
>>> Trump has made the "culture war" discourse far more toxic than it had
>>> previously been.
>> Washington State, IIRC, amended its Constitution two years before Roe
>> v Wade to legalize abortion. Others may have done the same. Several
>> have done the opposite.
>>
>> So some States may need to do something on the issue if Roe falls, but
>> many have theirs locked and loaded (so to speak).
>>
>> The interesting questions are things like this:
>> -- a lot of "values voters" are from religious traditions that
>> generally /discouraged/ participation in politics, including voting,
>> as part of separating themselves from the world. Those who are also
>> one-issue voters, and whose issue is abortion, might revert to form
>> and stop voting if they believe they have won
>> -- a lot of traditional Republicans may be voting Republican because
>> that is what their family has done since (say) the 60s, but do not
>> actually agree with the current position on the social issues.
>> Overturning Roe might convince them to either not vote or even vote
>> Democratic, at least for a while.
>>
>> Both sides appear to be using the leak to raise money. I suspect they
>> will use the decision, if Roe is overturned, to get their supporters
>> to go out and vote, regardless of Republican redistricting.
>>
>> BTW, has anyone considered the possibility that, as part of making a
>> decision, those one each side of the issue prepare /exactly/ the sort
>> of thing that was leaked so that both sides can see just why they are
>> thinking what they are thinking? And poke holes in the arguments of
>> the other side?
>>
>> That said, if we /must/ have a political Supreme Court, perhaps we
>> should elect a new one every two years and be done with it.
>
> If we are discussing this coming court decision,
> please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
> now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
> dead on Tuesday?

John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.

I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
about it.

Lynn

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Thu, 5 May 2022 03:32 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
> > dead on Tuesday?

> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>
> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
> about it.

I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.

But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.

Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 5 May 2022 05:24 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>> > dead on Tuesday?
>
>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>
>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>> about it.
>
>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>
>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>
>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.

And then at the next election it gets enlarged again and the ruling
gets reversed again.

The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
impatient to build.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<85834e52-1e09-4b29-a765-392284b82532n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Thu, 5 May 2022 08:12 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:24:22 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
> requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
> impatient to build.

It would take a very long time to build a consensus in favor of
"abortion rights".

However, other amendments to the Constitution ought to be someday
obtainable. "Impatient", however, is perhaps not the right word. When
it comes to genuine rights, they have to be respected immediately,
always, and invariably. Such as the right of black people to vote.

If there isn't a consensus in favor of that, so much the worse for anyone
who isn't in agreement.

From YouTube just now, incidentally,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyje5M2f3xE

I learned, or at least was reminded, that Jerry Falwell was far more evil
than I had realized: he dared to oppose _Brown vs. Board of Education_;
he wanted to segregate the schools, so that black people would be
denied the equal opportunity to go to college and succeed.

It is incomprehensible to me that he was allowed to have any kind
of public platform after that. The FCC should have totally banned
him, and all other segregationists, from the airwaves.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jack.boh...@gmail.com (Jack Bohn)
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 by: Jack Bohn - Thu, 5 May 2022 13:26 UTC

Quadibloc wrote:
>
> I learned, or at least was reminded, that Jerry Falwell was far more evil
> than I had realized: he dared to oppose _Brown vs. Board of Education_;
> he wanted to segregate the schools, so that black people would be
> denied the equal opportunity to go to college and succeed.
>
> It is incomprehensible to me that he was allowed to have any kind
> of public platform after that. The FCC should have totally banned
> him, and all other segregationists, from the airwaves.

As he was advocating the state of affairs before the Supreme Court decision,
it would take a rather quickly-pivoting government body to ban any discussion
of subjects against current laws. You have discovered a practical reason
against censoring the content of speech, for those who don't understand
the civil or moral reasons.

--
-Jack

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:12 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 01:12:03 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:24:22 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
>> requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
>> impatient to build.
>
>It would take a very long time to build a consensus in favor of
>"abortion rights".

So they should get to work on building it.

>However, other amendments to the Constitution ought to be someday
>obtainable. "Impatient", however, is perhaps not the right word. When
>it comes to genuine rights, they have to be respected immediately,
>always, and invariably. Such as the right of black people to vote.

But in your ideal world where you are dictator, the only vote that
counts is yours, so why is this an issue?

>If there isn't a consensus in favor of that, so much the worse for anyone
>who isn't in agreement.

So you favor tyranny as long as you agree with the tyrant.

>From YouTube just now, incidentally,
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyje5M2f3xE
>
>I learned, or at least was reminded, that Jerry Falwell was far more evil
>than I had realized: he dared to oppose _Brown vs. Board of Education_;
>he wanted to segregate the schools, so that black people would be
>denied the equal opportunity to go to college and succeed.

There are black people today who feel that integrating the schools did
more to deny equal opportunity than separate schools with black
teachers ever did, you know.

>It is incomprehensible to me that he was allowed to have any kind
>of public platform after that. The FCC should have totally banned
>him, and all other segregationists, from the airwaves.

That is called "censorship" and it is another thing that doesn't
happen in a free society. Do-gooders like you only favor democracy
when the majority agrees with you.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 09:06:31 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 5 May 2022 16:06 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 01:24:15 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>
>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>
>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>
>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>> about it.
>>
>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>
>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>
>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>
>And then at the next election it gets enlarged again and the ruling
>gets reversed again.
>
>The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
>requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
>impatient to build.

They don't have the votes now, and aren't likely to have them after
next November, no matter what happens.

For one thing, they would need 3/4 of the States to ratify it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

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