On 03/05/2022 11.10, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely place:
>>> Russia!
>>
>> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>
> "Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
> That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
>
> As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
> Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
> doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?

The claim of Hitler's Jewishness came from Sergey Lavrov. Presumably,
it's intended to support Putin's claim that the "military exercise"
is for the de-Nazification of Ukraine.

--
Michael F. Stemper
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.

On 5/2/22 12:48 PM, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:

> Dudley Brooks <dbrooks@runforyourlife.org> wrote:
>>
>> There's Nudists on the Moon.
>
> There's a 1987 sketch-based movie, 'Amazon Women on the Moon', where
> one of the running themes are scenes from a purported "sci-fi classic"
> with the same name. Carrie Fisher has a small part as part of a spoof
> PSA. It also has the best suggestion for who Jack the Ripper _really_
> was in movie history.

That's one of the great movies, and the actual Amazon Women on the Moon
section is one of the great sci-fi spoofs.

One of my favorite parts is where the astronauts are shown in a long
shot starting to trudge past one of "those rocks" (Vasquez Rocks), then
the camera does a lengthy sequence of closeups on their labored,
tortured faces as they struggle along ... and then pulls back for
another long shot showing that they've only gone a couple of feet.

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On Tue, 03 May 2022 08:44:58 -0400, Wolffan wrote:

> On 02 May 2022, J. Clarke wrote (in
> article<n0717hdnuc7f36flth0uhcp700qc6psnmh@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Tue, 3 May 2022 02:51:43 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>> > In article<rBABFu.1pJ5@kithrup.com>,
>> > Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> > > In article<0rWcneKvvuwM8O3_nZ2dnZeNn_XNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > > Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>> > > > Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wikipedia gives me more information on that flick than I care
>> > > > > to have, but neglects to identify Jack. Care to tell us?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9J2P4XZUo
>> > > >
>> > > > "Jack the Ripper. Was he a prosperous London surgeon? Perhaps a
>> > > > member of British royalty? Well, our Bullshit team has unearthed
>> > > > spectacular new evidence which suggests that Jack the Ripper was
>> > > > in fact... The Loch Ness monster."
>> > >
>> > > Thabk you. That was nice and short.
>> >
>> > I saw (long enough ago to have forgotten the source) a speculation
>> > that in fact there was no Jack the Ripper, but five unrelated murders
>> > of a frequently targeted demographic in a stabby part of London. The
>> > belief that they were related may have been pareidolia.
>>
>> FWIW, Jack puts in an appearance in "BeForeigners", a Nordic Noir
>> series on HBO. It's not bad as long as you understand that it is
>> Scandinavian television which means that there is no nudity taboo
>> (note, very little explicit sex but there's one character who comes
>> from the distant past who just plain can't see the point of this
>> newfangled "clothes" stuff).
>
> ah... it’s _Nordic_, right? Doesn’t it get just a bit chilly up there?

That is what bear fat is for.

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 17:18:08 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 11.10, Paul S Person wrote:
> > On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
> > <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely place:
> >>> Russia!
> >>
> >> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
> >> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
> >
> > "Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
> > That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
> >
> > As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
> > Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
> > doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
> The claim of Hitler's Jewishness came from Sergey Lavrov. Presumably,
> it's intended to support Putin's claim that the "military exercise"
> is for the de-Nazification of Ukraine.

It's not a new idea.

<https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/was-hitler-jewish>
finds scientific evidence unconvincing. But I don't mind
rejecting scientific evidence myself. Often it doesn't
bear close scrutiny.

In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:02:29 AM UTC-6, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>>>> Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Iron Sky was a Nazis on the Moon movie, complete with BMW motorbikes
>>>> > rolling across Lunar maria. Yes, motorbikes in a vacuum...
>>>
>>>> It also has Space Zeppelins. It should perhaps not be taken entirely
>serious.
>>>
>>>But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely place:
>>>Russia!
>>
>>The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>>Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>
>"Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
>That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
>
>As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
>doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
>
>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.

What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
crown it with victory?)
>
>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>on how much training the draftee gets.

It was pointed out from the beginning of the war that a lot of
the Russian troops are *un*trained, and on arrival in Ukraine
thought they were still in Belarus getting trained, or about to
get trained.

And Hal keeps forwarding me tidbits about how bad Russian tank
and weaponry design are.

>Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>Russia, that's just fine.

Slava Ukraini.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <t4rklg$15j$1@dont-email.me>,
Dudley Brooks <dbrooks@runforyourlife.org> wrote:
>On 5/2/22 12:48 PM, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>
>> Dudley Brooks <dbrooks@runforyourlife.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's Nudists on the Moon.
>>
>> There's a 1987 sketch-based movie, 'Amazon Women on the Moon', where
>> one of the running themes are scenes from a purported "sci-fi classic"
>> with the same name. Carrie Fisher has a small part as part of a spoof
>> PSA. It also has the best suggestion for who Jack the Ripper _really_
>> was in movie history.
>
>That's one of the great movies, and the actual Amazon Women on the Moon
>section is one of the great sci-fi spoofs.
>
>One of my favorite parts is where the astronauts are shown in a long
>shot starting to trudge past one of "those rocks" (Vasquez Rocks), then
>the camera does a lengthy sequence of closeups on their labored,
>tortured faces as they struggle along ... and then pulls back for
>another long shot showing that they've only gone a couple of feet.

This, under 1/6 G. Right.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:rBBK8C.2197@kithrup.com:

> In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:02:29 AM UTC-6, Leif Roar
>>>>Moldskred wrote:
>>>>> Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Iron Sky was a Nazis on the Moon movie, complete with BMW
>>>>> > motorbikes rolling across Lunar maria. Yes, motorbikes in
>>>>> > a vacuum...
>>>>
>>>>> It also has Space Zeppelins. It should perhaps not be taken
>>>>> entirely
>>serious.
>>>>
>>>>But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely
>>>>place: Russia!
>>>
>>>The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_.
>>> The Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler
>>>was Jewish.
>>
>>"Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national
>>character. That certainly describes their treatment of their
>>neighbors.
>>
>>As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>>Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would,
>>no doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
>>
>>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a
>>major date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I
>>suspect "Heroic Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in
>>military history.
>
> What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
> crown it with victory?)

I recall something about some major anniversary in early May, but I
dont' recall the details.
>>
>>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And
>>dead spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your
>>standard infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at
>>most, depending on how much training the draftee gets.
>
> It was pointed out from the beginning of the war that a lot of
> the Russian troops are *un*trained, and on arrival in Ukraine
> thought they were still in Belarus getting trained, or about to
> get trained.

And are, in many cases, being given weaponry that's a hundred years
old, or more advanced weaponry that's only a few decades old with
no insturction whatsoever.

Their strategy appears to be to throw warm bodies into the meat
grinder until the Ukranians run out of bullets. (On the other hand,
human wave attacks are also a Russian tradition.)
>
> And Hal keeps forwarding me tidbits about how bad Russian tank
> and weaponry design are.

There really isn't any aspect of Russia's action that isn't just as
bad.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 03/05/2022 13.19, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>>> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>>
>> "Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
>> That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
>>
>> As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>> Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
>> doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
>>
>> He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>> date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>> Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
>
> What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
> crown it with victory?)

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_(9_May)>

It appears to be their equivalent of V-E Day.

--
Michael F. Stemper
A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.

On Tuesday, 3 May 2022 at 19:47:15 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 13.19, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12...@4ax.com>,
> > Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
> >>> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
> >>
> >> "Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
> >> That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
> >>
> >> As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
> >> Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
> >> doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
> >>
> >> He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
> >> date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
> >> Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
> >
> > What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
> > crown it with victory?)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_(9_May)>
>
> It appears to be their equivalent of V-E Day.

Tell your family you love them on the 7th.
The 8th is liable to be hectic.

On 5/3/2022 8:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2022 10:37:26 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 12:17:17 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 10:35:52 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"
>>> <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/2/2022 6:30 AM, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>> On 01 May 2022, David Brown wrote
>>>>> (in article<2793cdf4-43b1-4aa2...@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Something I had backlogged, a post with my "worst" movies list.
>>>>>> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/04/movie-mania-my-worst-movies-list.ht
>>>>>> ml
>>>>>> Here's the bottom 10 in countdown order.
>>>>>> 10. Hard Rock Zombies
>>>>>> 9. Sleepwalkers
>>>>>> 8. The Nest
>>>>>> 7. Santa Claus The Movie
>>>>>> 6. Space Mutiny
>>>>>> 5. Z.P.G.
>>>>>> 4. Man-Thing
>>>>>> 3. Inseminoid
>>>>>> 2. War of the Planets
>>>>>> 1. Ingagi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David N. Brown
>>>>>> Mesa Arizona
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm. I’d have Nightfall (both of them) and Iron Sky on that list somewhere.
>>>>> The second Nightfall was worse than the first, and the first was sufficiently
>>>>> bad that Asimov tried to have his name removed from it. It has a 2.6 rating
>>>>> at IMDB. Iron Sky was a Nazis on the Moon movie, complete with BMW motorbikes
>>>>> rolling across Lunar maria. Yes, motorbikes in a vacuum...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well damn, now you've made me want to watch it just for the motorbikes
>>>> on the moon.
>>> I saw both it and it's sequel.
>>>
>>> If you're in the right mood, and grok satire, they are a fun watch.
>>>
>>> The second hints at a third, involving Mars, the Red Planet.
>>
>> I saw the first. It was fun as satire.
>>
>> Your last line reminds me of a long-lost underground comic series:
>> "Commies from Mars: The RED planet". Often NSFW, many of
>> the artists developed quite elaborate stories on the theme.
>
> The second continues the tradition. And explains who has been running
> the planet since -- well, pretty much forever.
>
> Let's just say a lot of famous people, some of them thought to be
> dead, turn out to ... not be people at all.

There were (and may still be) plans for a third movie in the franchise
but the odds IMO are pretty low considering how little the first made
and how long its taken to get the second.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>>date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>>Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
>
>What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
>crown it with victory?)

May Day?
>>
>>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>>on how much training the draftee gets.
>
>It was pointed out from the beginning of the war that a lot of
>the Russian troops are *un*trained, and on arrival in Ukraine
>thought they were still in Belarus getting trained, or about to
>get trained.
>
>And Hal keeps forwarding me tidbits about how bad Russian tank
>and weaponry design are.

The Russians have lost _at least_ 3,374 military vehicles so
far (documented), including 600 tanks. Many abandoned due
to logistical failures (no fuel) or unit cohesion (or lack thereof).

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

More embarassing, they lost one of their two largest Naval
guided missile cruisers, a landing ship and two patrol boats
and their sole carrier is in drydock.

Not that the Russian Air Force has distinguished themselves (at least
119 aircraft lost so far).

There was an article a couple weeks ago about folks using google maps
satellite view to examine Russian airbases; I spent some time looking
at western russian airbases, and they don't look very active; overrun
areas are overrun with weeds. Some aircraft wings were on the ground
next to the plane, little to no notable activity. Runways are almost
devoid of landing skidmarks. Reports are that Russian pilots get very
few training hours annually, and don't train in large groups or
exercises with ground forces and don't have access to sophisticated
simulators.

On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:02:29 AM UTC-6, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>>>> Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Iron Sky was a Nazis on the Moon movie, complete with BMW motorbikes
>>>> > rolling across Lunar maria. Yes, motorbikes in a vacuum...
>>>
>>>> It also has Space Zeppelins. It should perhaps not be taken entirely serious.
>>>
>>>But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely place:
>>>Russia!
>>
>>The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>>Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>
>"Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
>That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
>
>As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
>doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?

<https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-denounces-lavrovs-hitler-comments-summons-russian-ambassador-2022-05-02/>

>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
>
>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>on how much training the draftee gets.
>
>Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>Russia, that's just fine.

And it's about to get worse. A majority of the Japanese public is in
favor of revoking the renunciation of war.

On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>>But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely place:
>>Russia!
>
>The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.

It is known Hitler's grandmother worked as a housekeeper in a Jewish
household.

This does not of course imply she was the husband's mistress.

I remain annoyed that Putin et al still refer to the Ukrainians as
'neo-Nazi' since other than the fact that Stepan Bandura and his
followers hated Stalin and Stalin was fighting Hitler at the time
there's no evidence Bandura's men ever adopted Naziism.

Truth is more than 1/2 million Russian POWs >DID< put on German
uniform during the war and few if any who were sent to the Gulag ever
returned - many were shot on reaching Soviet lines and western
European forces (US, British, Canadian, French) all took part in the
forced repatriation chiefly to ensure Stalin didn't send OUR former
POWs to the Gulag. Some of those our countries "repatriated" were
children of former Russians born outside Russia who were never Soviet
citizens and thus never owed Stalin any loyalty.

On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>on how much training the draftee gets.
>
>Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>Russia, that's just fine.

What I don't understand is that if Russians invade Ukraine why it's a
vile thing for Ukrainians to hit targets inside Russia. Why is that
worse than Russians hitting targets inside Ukraine?

On 5/3/2022 6:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>> spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>> infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>> on how much training the draftee gets.
>>
>> Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>> opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>> provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>> Russia, that's just fine.
>
> What I don't understand is that if Russians invade Ukraine why it's a
> vile thing for Ukrainians to hit targets inside Russia. Why is that
> worse than Russians hitting targets inside Ukraine?

Putin screams "It was weapons you gave them that attacked Russia!!"
Pushes the nukes button.

That answer your question?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <XnsAE8C7668D78Dtaustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>news:rBBK8C.2197@kithrup.com:
>
>> In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:02:29 AM UTC-6, Leif Roar
>>>>>Moldskred wrote:
>>>>>> Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Iron Sky was a Nazis on the Moon movie, complete with BMW
>>>>>> > motorbikes rolling across Lunar maria. Yes, motorbikes in
>>>>>> > a vacuum...
>>>>>
>>>>>> It also has Space Zeppelins. It should perhaps not be taken
>>>>>> entirely
>>>serious.
>>>>>
>>>>>But Earth has been invaded by Nazis from an even more unlikely
>>>>>place: Russia!
>>>>
>>>>The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_.
>>>> The Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler
>>>>was Jewish.
>>>
>>>"Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national
>>>character. That certainly describes their treatment of their
>>>neighbors.
>>>
>>>As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>>>Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would,
>>>no doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
>>>
>>>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a
>>>major date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I
>>>suspect "Heroic Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in
>>>military history.
>>
>> What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
>> crown it with victory?)
>
>I recall something about some major anniversary in early May, but I
>dont' recall the details.
>>>
>>>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And
>>>dead spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your
>>>standard infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at
>>>most, depending on how much training the draftee gets.
>>
>> It was pointed out from the beginning of the war that a lot of
>> the Russian troops are *un*trained, and on arrival in Ukraine
>> thought they were still in Belarus getting trained, or about to
>> get trained.
>
>And are, in many cases, being given weaponry that's a hundred years
>old, or more advanced weaponry that's only a few decades old with
>no insturction whatsoever.
>
>Their strategy appears to be to throw warm bodies into the meat
>grinder until the Ukranians run out of bullets. (On the other hand,
>human wave attacks are also a Russian tradition.)
>>
>> And Hal keeps forwarding me tidbits about how bad Russian tank
>> and weaponry design are.
>
>There really isn't any aspect of Russia's action that isn't just as
>bad.

I'll go along with that. Remember the Agat? An imperfect
rip-off of some early Apple computer, known informally as the
Yablochka.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Tue, 03 May 2022 18:52:37 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>>on how much training the draftee gets.
>>
>>Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>>opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>>provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>>Russia, that's just fine.
>
>What I don't understand is that if Russians invade Ukraine why it's a
>vile thing for Ukrainians to hit targets inside Russia. Why is that
>worse than Russians hitting targets inside Ukraine?

At this point Ukraine, if they had the ability, would be completely
justified in rolling over Russia and not stopping until they hit the
Pacific.

On 03/05/2022 20.50, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>
> It is known Hitler's grandmother worked as a housekeeper in a Jewish
> household.

That is a claim that is less than universally accepted:

Historians dispute his acount. Ian Kershaw, for example, wrote in his
biography of Hitler Hubris, “A family named Frankenreiter did live there,
but was not Jewish. There is no evidence that Maria Anna was ever in Graz,
let alone employed by the butcher Leopold Frankenreiter.”

<https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/was-hitler-jewish>

--
Michael F. Stemper
This sentence no verb.

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 12:27:11 AM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 6:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
> > <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
> >> spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
> >> infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
> >> on how much training the draftee gets.
> >>
> >> Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
> >> opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
> >> provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
> >> Russia, that's just fine.
> >
> > What I don't understand is that if Russians invade Ukraine why it's a
> > vile thing for Ukrainians to hit targets inside Russia. Why is that
> > worse than Russians hitting targets inside Ukraine?
> Putin screams "It was weapons you gave them that attacked Russia!!"
> Pushes the nukes button.
>
> That answer your question?

As the weeks have gone by, Western nations have become much less
nervous about sending Ukraine better weaponry. In particular, the
artillery being sent now will undoubtedly be used to strike targets
tens of miles into Russia.

Published Russian nuclear doctrine does not allow the use of nukes
in that situation.

There still remains a slight possibility of Putin going full 'Apres moi,
le deluge', but it seems doubtful.

pt

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:42 PM UTC-4, Magewolf wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2022 08:44:58 -0400, Wolffan wrote:
>
> > On 02 May 2022, J. Clarke wrote (in
> > article<n0717hdnuc7f36flt...@4ax.com>):
> >
> >> FWIW, Jack puts in an appearance in "BeForeigners", a Nordic Noir
> >> series on HBO. It's not bad as long as you understand that it is
> >> Scandinavian television which means that there is no nudity taboo
> >> (note, very little explicit sex but there's one character who comes
> >> from the distant past who just plain can't see the point of this
> >> newfangled "clothes" stuff).
> >
> > ah... it’s _Nordic_, right? Doesn’t it get just a bit chilly up
> > there?
> That is what bear fat is for.

ObSF: Simak had a robot character who killed bears over the centuries so
that he could lubricate himself. (Itself? Themself? Whatever.)

On Mon, 2 May 2022 03:38:10 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <t4mpe8$ilr$1@dont-email.me>,
>Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 01/05/2022 14.58, David Brown wrote:
>>> Something I had backlogged, a post with my "worst" movies list.
>>>
>>https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/04/movie-mania-my-worst-movies-list.html
>>> Here's the bottom 10 in countdown order.
>>> 10. Hard Rock Zombies
>>> 9. Sleepwalkers
>>> 8. The Nest
>>> 7. Santa Claus The Movie
>>> 6. Space Mutiny
>>> 5. Z.P.G.
>>> 4. Man-Thing
>>> 3. Inseminoid
>>> 2. War of the Planets
>>> 1. Ingagi
>>
>>I am happy to say that I have never even heard of any of these.
>>Thank you for watching them so that we don't have to.
>
>Ditto; ditto.

Space Mutiny was featured on Mystery Science Theater. Someone put
together a nine minute highlight reel of the episode up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7POGi2TQls

Or if that's too long for you, there's also a three and half minute
version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fypyFkTO8x0

The movie is basically a really bad Battlestar Galactica ripoff (even
using footage recycled from the 70s TV series), where most of the
shots of the spaceship's interor were very clearly filmed in the
basement of some factory. Lots of bad 80s outfits, bad action
sequences, a captain who looks like Santa Clause and a macho hero who
the MST3K guys give about a hundred goofy nicknames.

Terrible movie, but great MST3K episode.

-- Bob

On 03 May 2022, Magewolf wrote
(in article <t4rpid$3vq$1@dont-email.me>):

> On Tue, 03 May 2022 08:44:58 -0400, Wolffan wrote:
>
> > On 02 May 2022, J. Clarke wrote (in
> > article<n0717hdnuc7f36flth0uhcp700qc6psnmh@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Tue, 3 May 2022 02:51:43 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
> > > Nicoll) wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article<rBABFu.1pJ5@kithrup.com>,
> > > > Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article<0rWcneKvvuwM8O3_nZ2dnZeNn_XNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > > > > Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
> > > > > > Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikipedia gives me more information on that flick than I care
> > > > > > > to have, but neglects to identify Jack. Care to tell us?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9J2P4XZUo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Jack the Ripper. Was he a prosperous London surgeon? Perhaps a
> > > > > > member of British royalty? Well, our Bullshit team has unearthed
> > > > > > spectacular new evidence which suggests that Jack the Ripper was
> > > > > > in fact... The Loch Ness monster."
> > > > >
> > > > > Thabk you. That was nice and short.
> > > >
> > > > I saw (long enough ago to have forgotten the source) a speculation
> > > > that in fact there was no Jack the Ripper, but five unrelated murders
> > > > of a frequently targeted demographic in a stabby part of London. The
> > > > belief that they were related may have been pareidolia.
> > >
> > > FWIW, Jack puts in an appearance in "BeForeigners", a Nordic Noir
> > > series on HBO. It's not bad as long as you understand that it is
> > > Scandinavian television which means that there is no nudity taboo
> > > (note, very little explicit sex but there's one character who comes
> > > from the distant past who just plain can't see the point of this
> > > newfangled "clothes" stuff).
> >
> > ah... it’s _Nordic_, right? Doesn’t it get just a bit chilly up there?
>
> That is what bear fat is for.

If you’ve gone to the trouble of killing the bear to get the bear fat, why
not use the bear skin?

On Tue, 03 May 2022 20:09:42 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>>>date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>>>Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
>>
>>What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
>>crown it with victory?)
>
>May Day?
>
>>>
>>>Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>>>spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>>>infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>>>on how much training the draftee gets.
>>
>>It was pointed out from the beginning of the war that a lot of
>>the Russian troops are *un*trained, and on arrival in Ukraine
>>thought they were still in Belarus getting trained, or about to
>>get trained.
>>
>>And Hal keeps forwarding me tidbits about how bad Russian tank
>>and weaponry design are.
>
>The Russians have lost _at least_ 3,374 military vehicles so
>far (documented), including 600 tanks. Many abandoned due
>to logistical failures (no fuel) or unit cohesion (or lack thereof).
>
>https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
>
>More embarassing, they lost one of their two largest Naval
>guided missile cruisers, a landing ship and two patrol boats
>and their sole carrier is in drydock.
>
>Not that the Russian Air Force has distinguished themselves (at least
>119 aircraft lost so far).
>
>There was an article a couple weeks ago about folks using google maps
>satellite view to examine Russian airbases; I spent some time looking
>at western russian airbases, and they don't look very active; overrun
>areas are overrun with weeds. Some aircraft wings were on the ground
>next to the plane, little to no notable activity. Runways are almost
>devoid of landing skidmarks. Reports are that Russian pilots get very
>few training hours annually, and don't train in large groups or
>exercises with ground forces and don't have access to sophisticated
>simulators.

Why spend money on the troops when you can stuff it into your Swiss
bank account?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tue, 3 May 2022 13:47:02 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 03/05/2022 13.19, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <t9k27hhkdkned0i12lr771evilta2g2m0a@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 23:05:04 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> The Russians seem bound and determined to piss off _everybody_. The
>>>> Israelis recently lambasted them for claiming that Hitler was Jewish.
>>>
>>> "Pissing off everybody" /would/ align with their national character.
>>> That certainly describes their treatment of their neighbors.
>>>
>>> As to the last, is someone riffing on the Russians claiming that
>>> Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a Nazi? Or did Putin (for this claim would, no
>>> doubt, have originated with Putin) actually say that?
>>>
>>> He must be getting /very/ desperate. He /needs/ a victory for a major
>>> date coming up, and he doesn't have one. Meanwhile, I suspect "Heroic
>>> Mariupol" will be joining "Heroic Stalingrad" in military history.
>>
>> What major date would that be? (Or would any day do if he can
>> crown it with victory?)
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_(9_May)>
>
>It appears to be their equivalent of V-E Day.

That, I think, was what I was reading about.

After all, they /did/ take Berlin! They have a lot to celebrate.

But not their conduct in Ukraine.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tue, 3 May 2022 21:27:11 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 5/3/2022 6:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 May 2022 09:10:23 -0700, Paul S Person
>> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently, even the spetznatz troops aren't working out. And dead
>>> spetznatzi take years to replace properly, unlike your standard
>>> infantryman, who takes a few months (once drafted) at most, depending
>>> on how much training the draftee gets.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting weapons more suited to tank battles as
>>> opposed to defense followed by partisan resistance. And at least one
>>> provider has said that, if they use the artillery to hit targets in
>>> Russia, that's just fine.
>>
>> What I don't understand is that if Russians invade Ukraine why it's a
>> vile thing for Ukrainians to hit targets inside Russia. Why is that
>> worse than Russians hitting targets inside Ukraine?
>
>Putin screams "It was weapons you gave them that attacked Russia!!"
>Pushes the nukes button.
>
>That answer your question?

Too late -- Ukraine has already made helicopter-based missile attacks
on targets just over the border.

This was some time ago. It produced some whining, but no nukes.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."