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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Isaiah 9:6

SubjectAuthor
* Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Dorothy J Heydt
|`- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
|`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Charles Packer
|  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
|   |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Doctor
|   ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   || `- Re: Isaiah 9:6The Doctor
|   |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |       +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Michael F. Stemper
|   |       +* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       |+- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
|   |       |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
|   |       | +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |       | |+- Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
|   |       | |`- Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       | `- Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
|   |       `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |        `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   |         `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
|   |          `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
|   `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Charles Packer
`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
 `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Dorothy J Heydt
  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Robert Carnegie
     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       +* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Jack Bohn
       |||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||| `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Jack Bohn
       ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||| +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||| +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||| |`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       ||||  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       ||| `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       |||  +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Scott Lurndal
       |||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       |||   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |||    `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
       || `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||  +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||   +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       ||      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       ||       `- Re: Isaiah 9:6The Horny Goat
       |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       || |+* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || ||+* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       || |||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
       || ||`- Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       || |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       || | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6pete...@gmail.com
       || |  `- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       || `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       ||  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       ||   `- Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |`* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       | `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |  `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |   +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Lynn McGuire
       |   `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |    `* Re: Isaiah 9:6David Johnston
       |     +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
       |     `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
       |      `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Kevrob
       |       `- Re: Isaiah 9:6William Hyde
       `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
        +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
        `* Re: Isaiah 9:6J. Clarke
         +- Re: Isaiah 9:6Quadibloc
         +* Re: Isaiah 9:6Paul S Person
         `* Re: Isaiah 9:6Kevrob

Pages:12345
Re: Isaiah 9:6

<kufa7htjugh7ujsorgln8b9vlc7g79phsl@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73047&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73047

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:34:18 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:34 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:52:22 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 5 May 2022 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:39 AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:12:06 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > I learned, or at least was reminded, that Jerry Falwell was far more evil
>>> > than I had realized: he dared to oppose _Brown vs. Board of Education_;
>>> > he wanted to segregate the schools, so that black people would be
>>> > denied the equal opportunity to go to college and succeed.
>>> >
>>> > It is incomprehensible to me that he was allowed to have any kind
>>> > of public platform after that. The FCC should have totally banned
>>> > him, and all other segregationists, from the airwaves.
>>> Of course, in your scheme, prior to the Civil War, it would have been
>>> illegal to publicly advocate stripping slave owners of their legal property,
>>> anywhere in the country.
>>>
>>> Your attitude is fundamentally unAmerican and unconstitutional. But that's
>>> ok, you're not an American, so its allowed.
>>>
>>> If you like this kind of law, you must love the current Russian legislation
>>> under which you can get 15 years in jail for calling the events in Ukraine
>>> a 'war'.
>>
>>I've already addressed this point.
>>
>>But what really keeps perplexing me is this:
>>
>>Surely we all agree that the Federal Republic of Germany is a democracy.
>>
>>After the end of World War II, you don't see *any* open expressions of
>>anti-Semitism there. Certainly there are no statues of Nazi generals
>>anywhere!
>
>The extent to which it is a democracy is debatable. It is Germany,
>everything that is not specifically permitted is prohibited. That's
>where do-gooders want to take America.
>
>>Why isn't the South like Germany?
>
>Because it isn't Germany.
>
>>Apparently, there was a failure to
>>completely denazify the South before Reconstruction ended. This
>>omission should be remedied.
>
>Funny how the people who actually fought and died in that war didn't
>see any need to "denazify the South", it's people who don't actually
>have a dog in the fight who want that. Like you.
>
>>There is _no_ contradiction between a society being democratic and
>>a society being one in which racist viewpoints are totally and absolutely
>>marginalized, with virtually no popular support, relegated to a tiny
>>lunatic fringe. One can point to many examples of democratic societies
>>in which this is the case.
>
>Goody. You may expect the nice young men in their clean white coats
>to come and take you away any time now, for the purpose of
>marginalizing your lunacy.
>
>Trouble with idiots like you is that you can't _imagine_ the policies
>you advocate being directed at _you_.

I just want to commend you for your efforts to educate Quaddie.

I don't think its working, but the effort is still appreciated.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<41ga7ht9vr0f2a7kojmi2lsihsr02jvct5@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73049&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73049

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:44:22 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:44 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:57:40 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 05 May 2022 09:06:31 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 01:24:15 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>>>
>>>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>>>
>>>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>>>
>>>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>>>
>>>And then at the next election it gets enlarged again and the ruling
>>>gets reversed again.
>>>
>>>The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
>>>requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
>>>impatient to build.
>>
>>They don't have the votes now, and aren't likely to have them after
>>next November, no matter what happens.
>>
>>For one thing, they would need 3/4 of the States to ratify it.
>
>And that is exactly the problem. "We want our rights and we don't
>care _how_, we want our rev-o-lu-tion NOW!". It will take a very logn
>time, decades, of concerted effort to establish that consensus. And
>that will only happen if the effort is focused on that one goal, not
>diluting it with a bunch of other divisive issues.
>
>But you can't wait for that, it has to be right now, right this
>minute, and steamroll anybody or anything that stands in your way.

Oh, /I/ can wait for that. Bernie and friends may not be able to, but
they aren't the ones that are going to solve the problem.

And, much as I wish it weren't so, the Dems chronic inability to
campaign effectively will make it take a lot longer.

If Roe falls, and a Constitutional Amendment is not practical, then I
would expect to see a slow withdrawal of major corporations and
venture capital from those States, shrinking their economies. Also a
pattern of emigration to saner States, reducing their influence in the
House.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<kkga7h1sq98evii01ev4cgqckeuupe0r3e@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:52:17 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:52 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 22:02:00 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 05 May 2022 09:08:56 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>
>>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>>
>>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>>
>>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>>> about it.
>>>
>>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>>
>>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>>
>>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>>
>>Enlarging the Court isn't the answer.
>>
>>Two of the Justices appear to have testified, under oath, that they
>>would respect and not try to overturn Roe v Wade. If they do, they can
>>be impeached for moral turpitude.
>>
>>Two more recent Justices appear to have lied to /Republicans/ about
>>respecting Roe v Wade. Since they were not under oath, this would be
>>harder, but they, also, could be impeached and convicted for moral
>>turpitude.
>>
>>But I don't think it's gonna happen. Even it Roe v Wade falls.
>
>Impeach away. What makes you think it will any more effective when
>applied to a Supreme Court justice than it did when applied to Trump.
>To get them out of office you don't just have to impeach them, you
>have to _convict_ them which requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate
>that you do not have.
>
>Oh, and lying under oath is called "perjury", not "moral turpitude".

Lying, under oath or not, is a sign of moral turpitude. Here is one
definition:

Moral turpitude refers to conduct that shocks the public conscience,
or which does not fall within the moral standards held by the
community. The law concerning moral turpitude is constantly changing
and evolving, as the moral standards of society in general change.

Supreme Court candidates /not lying/ about their intentions is
/definitely/ one of the moral standards.

But, if you prefer, this part of the Constitution

The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their
Offices during good Behaviour,

might be applied, as lying is /not/ "good Behavior".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<461ea924-c9ff-415a-ae13-ac4cd0fd8f9bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 16:06 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 7:52:28 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> Trouble with idiots like you is that you can't _imagine_ the policies
> you advocate being directed at _you_.

I realize that there's always a problem inherent in taking drastic
measures.

But something has gone wrong. We are behind schedule. People knew
in the 1960s that racism was a terrible problem, but progress had been
made in overcoming it. By the 1970s, a major chunk of that problem
had been overcome; entrenched legal obstacles to equality were, by and
large, removed.

But even now, so far away from those dark days, there are _still_
people willing to obstruct the ability of black people to vote. That
is hard to comprehend. Apparently, the sinister elements of the
Republican party behind this are people who grew up, and formed
their view of the world, in an environment radically different from where
normal people grew up. Some sort of terrible rot and corruption is
hiding in some parts of the United States to permit this to happen.

It's clear what is necessary to eliminate this - and Ron de Santis of
Florida has tried to put himself in the way. He thinks it's a *bad* thing
for children to be relentlessly indoctrinated, from their earliest days
in school, with racial equality. A bad thing to deprive wrong thinking
about this vital issue of the oxygen it needs to grow.

So it certainly looks, on the surface at least, that what your country
needs is... to have its current political structure replaced by one that
has as its goal to utterly crush racism, to ensure that all Americans
have a clear understanding of what it meant to black Americans, and
to make it basically impossible for this kind of thing to ever rise
again.

Of course there are real-world considerations that intervene. There is
no more enlightened country that can conquer and occupy the United
States. Of the world's strong countries, however imperfect the United
States may be, it's the only one that's free.

But it's on the brink of collapse. The Republican Party may take power
again - not the Republican Party of Eisenhower, but the party of Trump,
that has shown itself to be utterly evil and depraved, with no respect
for democracy.

Respecting their rights is fighting them with one hand tied behind one's
back, and the stakes are too high.

And the wrong people seem to be the ones more likely to have guns. So
a "simple" answer: 1) Trump, or someone like him, wins in 2024; 2) but
he never gets to take office, because it's followed by events that make
January 6, 2022 seem minor in comparison...

seems unlikely.

The thing is, though, that there is _one_ group of Americans to
whom the return to power of someone like Trump seems like a
matter of life or death.

If they could only coordinate themselves into a more practical
response than... wrecking, burning, and looting the retail
establishments that serve their own neighborhoods, thus making
it even harder afterwards for their people to go shopping...
they might achieve a result.

But tumult and violence weakens a nation, and the world
situation is such that a strong and united America is needed
more than ever!

I don't have any useful solutions. Joe Biden does not have the
power to decree that letting Florida and Texas back into the
Union was a mistake, and so they can just sit the next midterms
out until they have been properly reshaped.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
Injection-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 16:22:16 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 16:22 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:39:15 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> Have you ever, once in your life, visited the real world?

I am, at least, in reciept of news dispatches from the real world.

And I find them most distressing. Thus, I think it's time to replace
how things are run in the real world with the situation where God's
Kingdom _has_ come, and it _is_ on Earth as it is in Heaven.

I would see the Republican Party's theocracy, and raise it an
eschaton.

But I don't have the power. I don't have the power to stop the
attacks on Ukraine, and ensure that Ukraine will be rebuilt, and
Russia will pay every cent of the cost.

Nor do I have the power to prevent the supporters of Trump from
winning the next American election. If they were only destroying
their own freedom, that would be one thing. But they would be
taking away the freedom of _all_ Americans, *and therefore the
freedom of everyone else in the whole world, forever*.

And, silly me, I think that those people who are stuck in the real
world should do whatever they have to do to make sure that this
does not happen to it.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<neoa7h5be25gg6u0r138mof5ph0iut01r7@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 18:12 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 7:52:28 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Trouble with idiots like you is that you can't _imagine_ the policies
>> you advocate being directed at _you_.
>
>I realize that there's always a problem inherent in taking drastic
>measures.
>
>But something has gone wrong. We are behind schedule. People knew
>in the 1960s that racism was a terrible problem, but progress had been
>made in overcoming it. By the 1970s, a major chunk of that problem
>had been overcome; entrenched legal obstacles to equality were, by and
>large, removed.

Quadi, people knew this in the _18_60s, some of them were even slave
owners. But they couldn't figure out a way to get from where they
were to where they wanted to be without creating a lot of black misery
in the process.

And we're still in that situation.

>But even now, so far away from those dark days, there are _still_
>people willing to obstruct the ability of black people to vote.

And a lot of them are do-gooders like you. It's just that your idea
of "doing good" and their idea of "doing good" are in conflict.

>That
>is hard to comprehend. Apparently, the sinister elements of the
>Republican party behind this are people who grew up, and formed
>their view of the world, in an environment radically different from where
>normal people grew up. Some sort of terrible rot and corruption is
>hiding in some parts of the United States to permit this to happen.

Yeah, the horror of it, trying to make sure that only those who are
legally entitled to vote are allowed to vote, and that only once per
election.

They think it's a problem, you don't. You think that black people
having IDs that they can show is a problem, they don't. But by
screeching about "racism" you marginalize _yourself_.

>It's clear what is necessary to eliminate this - and Ron de Santis of
>Florida has tried to put himself in the way. He thinks it's a *bad* thing
>for children to be relentlessly indoctrinated, from their earliest days
>in school, with racial equality. A bad thing to deprive wrong thinking
>about this vital issue of the oxygen it needs to grow.

As long as the government owns the schools, the government decides
what gets taught. If you don't like what the government of Florida is
teaching in the schools they own, you are welcome to move to Florida
and run for governor. And you have a thick enough skin and are nuts
enough that you might even pull it off.

>So it certainly looks, on the surface at least, that what your country
>needs is... to have its current political structure replaced by one that
>has as its goal to utterly crush racism, to ensure that all Americans
>have a clear understanding of what it meant to black Americans, and
>to make it basically impossible for this kind of thing to ever rise
>again.

Yeah, oppress _everybody_, that's the ticket.

>Of course there are real-world considerations that intervene. There is
>no more enlightened country that can conquer and occupy the United
>States. Of the world's strong countries, however imperfect the United
>States may be, it's the only one that's free.

So deal. Instead of whining, try to find some path from here to where
you want to be that is actually politically viable.

>But it's on the brink of collapse. The Republican Party may take power
>again - not the Republican Party of Eisenhower, but the party of Trump,
>that has shown itself to be utterly evil and depraved, with no respect
>for democracy.

No political party in the US has any respect for democracy. Right now
the Democrats pretend that they are because they have achieved a small
majority, but if it was the other way around they'd be pulling every
trick in the book.

>Respecting their rights is fighting them with one hand tied behind one's
>back, and the stakes are too high.

Yeah, we establish "freedom" by oppressing nearly half the populace.

>And the wrong people seem to be the ones more likely to have guns.

Yes, Quadi. Pity that they people who cry so much about "freedom"
havs systematically disarmed themselves.

>So
>a "simple" answer: 1) Trump, or someone like him, wins in 2024; 2) but
>he never gets to take office, because it's followed by events that make
>January 6, 2022 seem minor in comparison...

You mean like a bunch of unarmed liberals try to storm the Capitol and
get gunned down by a handful of Republican senators?

>seems unlikely.
>
>The thing is, though, that there is _one_ group of Americans to
>whom the return to power of someone like Trump seems like a
>matter of life or death.
>
>If they could only coordinate themselves into a more practical
>response than... wrecking, burning, and looting the retail
>establishments that serve their own neighborhoods, thus making
>it even harder afterwards for their people to go shopping...
>they might achieve a result.
>
>But tumult and violence weakens a nation, and the world
>situation is such that a strong and united America is needed
>more than ever!
>
>I don't have any useful solutions.

And that has been your problem right along, you wouldn't knwo a
"useful solution" if it beat you over the head with an adamantium
cluebat.

>Joe Biden does not have the
>power to decree that letting Florida and Texas back into the
>Union was a mistake, and so they can just sit the next midterms
>out until they have been properly reshaped.

So that's what you want, to expel Florida and Texas, both of which
have orbital launch capability, from the Union?

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 18:16 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 09:22:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:39:15 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Have you ever, once in your life, visited the real world?
>
>I am, at least, in reciept of news dispatches from the real world.

Well there's your problem, you rely on "news dispatches" to tell you
what life is like for people you have never met.

>And I find them most distressing. Thus, I think it's time to replace
>how things are run in the real world with the situation where God's
>Kingdom _has_ come, and it _is_ on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Oh, now you're going for an establishment of religion. The Democrats
are going to try to slaughter you on that one.

>I would see the Republican Party's theocracy, and raise it an
>eschaton.

What "theocracy" would that be? Hint--saying "making laws about
abortion is above our pay-grade" is not "theocracy", it is "honesty".

>But I don't have the power. I don't have the power to stop the
>attacks on Ukraine, and ensure that Ukraine will be rebuilt, and
>Russia will pay every cent of the cost.
>
>Nor do I have the power to prevent the supporters of Trump from
>winning the next American election. If they were only destroying
>their own freedom, that would be one thing. But they would be
>taking away the freedom of _all_ Americans, *and therefore the
>freedom of everyone else in the whole world, forever*.

What "freedom" would that be? If you think the US is "free" you don't
live here.

>And, silly me, I think that those people who are stuck in the real
>world should do whatever they have to do to make sure that this
>does not happen to it.

They are too busy living their lives to bother with your nonsense.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<1gpa7hldj7p8irlgg729oja5idggc03fqg@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 18:18 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:44:22 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:57:40 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 09:06:31 -0700, Paul S Person
>><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 01:24:15 -0400, J. Clarke
>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>>>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>>>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>>>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>>>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>>>>
>>>>And then at the next election it gets enlarged again and the ruling
>>>>gets reversed again.
>>>>
>>>>The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
>>>>requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
>>>>impatient to build.
>>>
>>>They don't have the votes now, and aren't likely to have them after
>>>next November, no matter what happens.
>>>
>>>For one thing, they would need 3/4 of the States to ratify it.
>>
>>And that is exactly the problem. "We want our rights and we don't
>>care _how_, we want our rev-o-lu-tion NOW!". It will take a very logn
>>time, decades, of concerted effort to establish that consensus. And
>>that will only happen if the effort is focused on that one goal, not
>>diluting it with a bunch of other divisive issues.
>>
>>But you can't wait for that, it has to be right now, right this
>>minute, and steamroll anybody or anything that stands in your way.
>
>Oh, /I/ can wait for that. Bernie and friends may not be able to, but
>they aren't the ones that are going to solve the problem.
>
>And, much as I wish it weren't so, the Dems chronic inability to
>campaign effectively will make it take a lot longer.
>
>If Roe falls, and a Constitutional Amendment is not practical, then I
>would expect to see a slow withdrawal of major corporations and
>venture capital from those States, shrinking their economies. Also a
>pattern of emigration to saner States, reducing their influence in the
>House.

Why would you expect to see this? What's in it for those "major
corporations"?

And do you really think that the small chance that one might need an
abortion outweighs, say, the cost of living?

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<fjpa7hh2kg0f605dker89ego1k5u1ku1ja@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 18:21 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:52:17 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 05 May 2022 22:02:00 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 09:08:56 -0700, Paul S Person
>><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>>>
>>>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>>>
>>>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>>>
>>>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>>>
>>>Enlarging the Court isn't the answer.
>>>
>>>Two of the Justices appear to have testified, under oath, that they
>>>would respect and not try to overturn Roe v Wade. If they do, they can
>>>be impeached for moral turpitude.
>>>
>>>Two more recent Justices appear to have lied to /Republicans/ about
>>>respecting Roe v Wade. Since they were not under oath, this would be
>>>harder, but they, also, could be impeached and convicted for moral
>>>turpitude.
>>>
>>>But I don't think it's gonna happen. Even it Roe v Wade falls.
>>
>>Impeach away. What makes you think it will any more effective when
>>applied to a Supreme Court justice than it did when applied to Trump.
>>To get them out of office you don't just have to impeach them, you
>>have to _convict_ them which requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate
>>that you do not have.
>>
>>Oh, and lying under oath is called "perjury", not "moral turpitude".
>
>Lying, under oath or not, is a sign of moral turpitude.

So? Please show the Federal statute that prohibits "moral turpitude"
and establishes the penalties for it.

>Here is one
>definition:
>
>Moral turpitude refers to conduct that shocks the public conscience,
>or which does not fall within the moral standards held by the
>community. The law concerning moral turpitude is constantly changing
>and evolving, as the moral standards of society in general change.
>
>Supreme Court candidates /not lying/ about their intentions is
>/definitely/ one of the moral standards.
>
>But, if you prefer, this part of the Constitution
>
>The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their
>Offices during good Behaviour,
>
>might be applied, as lying is /not/ "good Behavior".

You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
at which they were uttered.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 19:36 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:12:46 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> Yeah, the horror of it, trying to make sure that only those who are
> legally entitled to vote are allowed to vote, and that only once per
> election.

> They think it's a problem, you don't. You think that black people
> having IDs that they can show is a problem, they don't. But by
> screeching about "racism" you marginalize _yourself_.

Although respected political commentators in the U.S. have
indicated that ID requirements can weigh more heavily on
minority group members, I was talking about the more obvious
things.

In Texas, and several other states, black neighborhoods are
systematically underserviced for polling stations on Election
Day, so that black people wanting to vote typically are standing
in long line-ups for hours, while white people aren't.

It is in this context that a law criminalizing bringing food and
water to people lined up to vote is seen as having obvious
racist intent, and this view is consistent with other news
reports I have recieved from your country over the years,
so I have no cause to doubt or question it.

I realize the U.S. has a huge problem with people unlawfully
entering it from Latin American countries due to its relative
prosperity, and I don't share the view of the extreme left that
this should be treated as a non-issue, even if I agree that
Trump's wall was wasteful.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 19:39 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:44:22 -0700, Paul S Person
> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

> >If Roe falls, and a Constitutional Amendment is not practical, then I
> >would expect to see a slow withdrawal of major corporations and
> >venture capital from those States, shrinking their economies. Also a
> >pattern of emigration to saner States, reducing their influence in the
> >House.

> Why would you expect to see this? What's in it for those "major
> corporations"?

Avoiding labor actions, boycotts, stuff like that. Also, this sort of
thing has _already happened_ with regard to legislation considered
inimical to LGBTQ+ rights, so this would be a continuation of an
established pattern.

> And do you really think that the small chance that one might need an
> abortion outweighs, say, the cost of living?

One certainly wants the government to competently manage the
economy. However, respecting human rights normally is _also_
expected, and a failure in that regard is... more egregious, as it
is easier to avoid.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
Injection-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 19:59:34 +0000
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 19:59 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:21:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
> state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
> at which they were uttered.

Location: the floor of the United States Senate.

The words? You can listen to them here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJCGAA4VYT8

skip ahead to 4:40 or so

November 11, 2006
_Roe vs. Wade_ is an important precedent of the Supreme Court
-Samuel Alito

October 13, 2020
_Roe vs. Wade_ clearly held that the Constitution protected a woman's
right to terminate her pregnancy
-Amy Coney Barrett

March 22, 2017
The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly held in _Roe vs. Wade_
that a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.
That's the law of the land. I accept the law of the land.
-Neil Gorsuch

September 5, 2018
It's settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court.
-Brett Kavanaugh

Actually, though, I'm starting to see what you mean. Those were...
general statements... not specifically addressing the respondent's
_own_ attitude towards what Roe vs. Wade _was_ in the sense of
being good law or bad.

Here is an article on the subject:

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<e78164ad-fbce-4f3e-a1f4-6ba587ae9587n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 6 May 2022 20:08 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 1:59:36 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:21:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
> > state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
> > at which they were uttered.
> Location: the floor of the United States Senate.
>
> The words? You can listen to them here:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJCGAA4VYT8
>
> skip ahead to 4:40 or so
>
> November 11, 2006
> _Roe vs. Wade_ is an important precedent of the Supreme Court
> -Samuel Alito
>
> October 13, 2020
> _Roe vs. Wade_ clearly held that the Constitution protected a woman's
> right to terminate her pregnancy
> -Amy Coney Barrett
>
> March 22, 2017
> The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly held in _Roe vs. Wade_
> that a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.
> That's the law of the land. I accept the law of the land.
> -Neil Gorsuch
>
> September 5, 2018
> It's settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court.
> -Brett Kavanaugh
>
> Actually, though, I'm starting to see what you mean. Those were...
> general statements... not specifically addressing the respondent's
> _own_ attitude towards what Roe vs. Wade _was_ in the sense of
> being good law or bad.
>
> Here is an article on the subject:
>
> https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings

Of course, even if they didn't outright commit perjury, unforthcoming
statements with the intent to decieve could still be considered
contempt of Congress.

However, there is another side to this. As I recall at the time of some
confirmation hearings, it was noted that, *given the independence of
the judiciary*, grilling prospective Supreme Court candidates on how they
would decide in specific cases was... somewhat improper. The Senate
should be concerning itself with the competence and character of
prospective candidates... although looking out for bias would also be
legitimate.

So instead of evasiveness to decieve, this could be evasiveness to defend the
independence of the judiciary, and the liberals are just putting their spin on it.
There is some legitimacy to that viewpoint.

However, the refusal of the Republicans to allow hearings on Obama's Supreme
Court nominee, while making a last-minute appointment for Trump inconsistently,
casts a serious shadow over the legitimacy of that court that can't be easily
argued away.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<d10b7hp5ni1f5nsm8uifics1enr4ut4cob@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 20:11 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:36:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:12:46 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the horror of it, trying to make sure that only those who are
>> legally entitled to vote are allowed to vote, and that only once per
>> election.
>
>> They think it's a problem, you don't. You think that black people
>> having IDs that they can show is a problem, they don't. But by
>> screeching about "racism" you marginalize _yourself_.
>
>Although respected political commentators in the U.S. have
>indicated that ID requirements can weigh more heavily on
>minority group members, I was talking about the more obvious
>things.
>
>In Texas, and several other states, black neighborhoods are
>systematically underserviced for polling stations on Election
>Day, so that black people wanting to vote typically are standing
>in long line-ups for hours, while white people aren't.

Oh, the horror, having to stand in line. You've never been in any
kind of military, have you?

>It is in this context that a law criminalizing bringing food and
>water to people lined up to vote is seen as having obvious
>racist intent, and this view is consistent with other news
>reports I have recieved from your country over the years,
>so I have no cause to doubt or question it.

Those who favor preventing political activists from influencing
elections by doing favors for people standing in line waiting to vote
believe that it is an issue. You don't. And you never question
anything that supports your narrative, which is why you come across as
a credulous fool..

>I realize the U.S. has a huge problem with people unlawfully
>entering it from Latin American countries due to its relative
>prosperity, and I don't share the view of the extreme left that
>this should be treated as a non-issue, even if I agree that
>Trump's wall was wasteful.

Non-sequitur.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<m70b7h5rp309ajvdsp4sr54peb7kmo53u8@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Message-ID: <m70b7h5rp309ajvdsp4sr54peb7kmo53u8@4ax.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 20:14 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:44:22 -0700, Paul S Person
>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >If Roe falls, and a Constitutional Amendment is not practical, then I
>> >would expect to see a slow withdrawal of major corporations and
>> >venture capital from those States, shrinking their economies. Also a
>> >pattern of emigration to saner States, reducing their influence in the
>> >House.
>
>> Why would you expect to see this? What's in it for those "major
>> corporations"?
>
>Avoiding labor actions,

What kind of "labor actions" do you have in mind?

>boycotts,

When those actually happen get back to us.

>stuff like that. Also, this sort of
>thing has _already happened_ with regard to legislation considered
>inimical to LGBTQ+ rights, so this would be a continuation of an
>established pattern.

What particular "labor actions" and "boycotts" do you have in mind
that induced any company to relocate from one state to another?

>> And do you really think that the small chance that one might need an
>> abortion outweighs, say, the cost of living?
>
>One certainly wants the government to competently manage the
>economy. However, respecting human rights normally is _also_
>expected, and a failure in that regard is... more egregious, as it
>is easier to avoid.

You consider it to be "more egregious". Does your average American
citizen deciding whether to choose between Texas and California agree
with you? You seem to think that every person in the world has
exactly the same priorities as you do despite massive evidence to the
contrary.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<4m0b7hpll61n7nvo202q265696874o0198@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 6 May 2022 20:39 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:21:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
>> state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
>> at which they were uttered.
>
>Location: the floor of the United States Senate.
>
>The words? You can listen to them here:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJCGAA4VYT8
>
>skip ahead to 4:40 or so
>
>November 11, 2006
>_Roe vs. Wade_ is an important precedent of the Supreme Court
>-Samuel Alito

And at that time it was. So where is the lie?

>October 13, 2020
>_Roe vs. Wade_ clearly held that the Constitution protected a woman's
>right to terminate her pregnancy
>-Amy Coney Barrett

Roe vs. Wade certainly held that. Where is the lie?
>
>March 22, 2017
>The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly held in _Roe vs. Wade_
>that a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.
>That's the law of the land. I accept the law of the land.
>-Neil Gorsuch

The Supreme Court certainly held that. And at the time it _was_ the
law of the land. Where is the lie?

>September 5, 2018
>It's settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court.
>-Brett Kavanaugh

And it certainly was settled as a precedent at that time. Again where
is the lie?

>Actually, though, I'm starting to see what you mean. Those were...
>general statements... not specifically addressing the respondent's
>_own_ attitude towards what Roe vs. Wade _was_ in the sense of
>being good law or bad.

You haven't shown me anything that I haven't seen before, Quadi. They
stated the current state of the law at the time the question was
asked. They did not state that they intended to allow that situation
to continue.

By the way, if you are getting your news from Stephen Colbert, I
suggest you find a more reliable source.

>Here is an article on the subject:
>
>https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings
>
>John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<ff3d7hhumkerj88d3mj6br8n46fmte62o1@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73098&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73098

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 08:23:49 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 7 May 2022 15:23 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:18:14 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:44:22 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:57:40 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 09:06:31 -0700, Paul S Person
>>><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2022 01:24:15 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:59:00 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/4/2022 2:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > If we are discussing this coming court decision,
>>>>>>> > please satisfy my curiosity: what would be the position
>>>>>>> > now, Wednesday, if half of the justices had been shot
>>>>>>> > dead on Tuesday?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Grisham wrote a book about that. The outcome was not good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, "The Pelican Brief". You can even watch a movie
>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't think that anything like that is likely to happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But two people hold the power to ensure it won't happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Manchin and Sinema. They just have to get out of the way, so that Biden
>>>>>>_can_ enlarge the Supreme Court.
>>>>>
>>>>>And then at the next election it gets enlarged again and the ruling
>>>>>gets reversed again.
>>>>>
>>>>>The right way to do this is to amend the Constitution, but that
>>>>>requires a consensus that Democrats are too incompetent and lazy and
>>>>>impatient to build.
>>>>
>>>>They don't have the votes now, and aren't likely to have them after
>>>>next November, no matter what happens.
>>>>
>>>>For one thing, they would need 3/4 of the States to ratify it.
>>>
>>>And that is exactly the problem. "We want our rights and we don't
>>>care _how_, we want our rev-o-lu-tion NOW!". It will take a very logn
>>>time, decades, of concerted effort to establish that consensus. And
>>>that will only happen if the effort is focused on that one goal, not
>>>diluting it with a bunch of other divisive issues.
>>>
>>>But you can't wait for that, it has to be right now, right this
>>>minute, and steamroll anybody or anything that stands in your way.
>>
>>Oh, /I/ can wait for that. Bernie and friends may not be able to, but
>>they aren't the ones that are going to solve the problem.
>>
>>And, much as I wish it weren't so, the Dems chronic inability to
>>campaign effectively will make it take a lot longer.
>>
>>If Roe falls, and a Constitutional Amendment is not practical, then I
>>would expect to see a slow withdrawal of major corporations and
>>venture capital from those States, shrinking their economies. Also a
>>pattern of emigration to saner States, reducing their influence in the
>>House.
>
>Why would you expect to see this? What's in it for those "major
>corporations"?
>
>And do you really think that the small chance that one might need an
>abortion outweighs, say, the cost of living?

The reaction to the various "bathroom bills", which has already cost
jobs and convention-center bookings.

The not-just-verbal war between Disney and the State of Florida over
the "don't say gay" law. No violence so far, at least.

And the willingness of some major corporations to pay the travel
expenses of employees forced to visit another State for a medical
procedure.

Remember, I don't expect this to happen immediately. But, over time,
it is quite possible.

How many Chik-Fil-As and Hobby-Lobbies can they support? How many jobs
can those businesses provide?

Of course, construction will always be busy, cleaning up after each
year's hurricanes, at least in some States.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<ar3d7hl1tke2thr1jvl0kl1dqh4lgvd1ai@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 08:27:15 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 7 May 2022 15:27 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 16:39:07 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:21:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
>>> state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
>>> at which they were uttered.
>>
>>Location: the floor of the United States Senate.
>>
>>The words? You can listen to them here:
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJCGAA4VYT8
>>
>>skip ahead to 4:40 or so
>>
>>November 11, 2006
>>_Roe vs. Wade_ is an important precedent of the Supreme Court
>>-Samuel Alito
>
>And at that time it was. So where is the lie?
>
>>October 13, 2020
>>_Roe vs. Wade_ clearly held that the Constitution protected a woman's
>>right to terminate her pregnancy
>>-Amy Coney Barrett
>
>Roe vs. Wade certainly held that. Where is the lie?
>>
>>March 22, 2017
>>The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly held in _Roe vs. Wade_
>>that a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.
>>That's the law of the land. I accept the law of the land.
>>-Neil Gorsuch
>
>The Supreme Court certainly held that. And at the time it _was_ the
>law of the land. Where is the lie?
>
>>September 5, 2018
>>It's settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court.
>>-Brett Kavanaugh
>
>And it certainly was settled as a precedent at that time. Again where
>is the lie?
>
>>Actually, though, I'm starting to see what you mean. Those were...
>>general statements... not specifically addressing the respondent's
>>_own_ attitude towards what Roe vs. Wade _was_ in the sense of
>>being good law or bad.
>
>You haven't shown me anything that I haven't seen before, Quadi. They
>stated the current state of the law at the time the question was
>asked. They did not state that they intended to allow that situation
>to continue.

If it is the law of the land, and established precedent, then
overturning it is acting in direct opposition to their stated
positions. Which is to say, it shows their statements to be lies.

And the reversal, if it occurs, to be bad behavior.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<refd7htvb3a3o6uptcaalarjba7uq8uu19@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
Message-ID: <refd7htvb3a3o6uptcaalarjba7uq8uu19@4ax.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Sat, 7 May 2022 19:10 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 08:27:15 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 May 2022 16:39:07 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:21:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> You still have not shown evidence of this supposed "lie". Please
>>>> state the words that constitute said "lie" and the time and location
>>>> at which they were uttered.
>>>
>>>Location: the floor of the United States Senate.
>>>
>>>The words? You can listen to them here:
>>>
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJCGAA4VYT8
>>>
>>>skip ahead to 4:40 or so
>>>
>>>November 11, 2006
>>>_Roe vs. Wade_ is an important precedent of the Supreme Court
>>>-Samuel Alito
>>
>>And at that time it was. So where is the lie?
>>
>>>October 13, 2020
>>>_Roe vs. Wade_ clearly held that the Constitution protected a woman's
>>>right to terminate her pregnancy
>>>-Amy Coney Barrett
>>
>>Roe vs. Wade certainly held that. Where is the lie?
>>>
>>>March 22, 2017
>>>The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly held in _Roe vs. Wade_
>>>that a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.
>>>That's the law of the land. I accept the law of the land.
>>>-Neil Gorsuch
>>
>>The Supreme Court certainly held that. And at the time it _was_ the
>>law of the land. Where is the lie?
>>
>>>September 5, 2018
>>>It's settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court.
>>>-Brett Kavanaugh
>>
>>And it certainly was settled as a precedent at that time. Again where
>>is the lie?
>>
>>>Actually, though, I'm starting to see what you mean. Those were...
>>>general statements... not specifically addressing the respondent's
>>>_own_ attitude towards what Roe vs. Wade _was_ in the sense of
>>>being good law or bad.
>>
>>You haven't shown me anything that I haven't seen before, Quadi. They
>>stated the current state of the law at the time the question was
>>asked. They did not state that they intended to allow that situation
>>to continue.
>
>If it is the law of the land, and established precedent, then
>overturning it is acting in direct opposition to their stated
>positions. Which is to say, it shows their statements to be lies.

They weren't asked for "positions", they were asked what the law was.
And they're lawyers, so they said what the law was. Why are you
having so much trouble with this concept? What did you want them to
say, that "no, this is not precedent and not the law of the land"?
That would be the lie.

>And the reversal, if it occurs, to be bad behavior.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<f1nf7hp5k6v862emno4aiee6iv6m41h22i@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:11 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:45:44 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 5 May 2022 10:49:56 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 8:12:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>As for the inferior resources, schools today put a lot of store in
>"resources" and very little store in actually expecting students to
>learn the material being taught.

That was after all one of the key arguments in Brown v Board of
Education - since it was demonstrated that budgets for 'white schools'
vs 'black schools' were something like 4 or 5 to 1 per pupil and it
was argued (and the high justices agreed) that that wasn't at all
equal which was the standard from Plessy.

>>And I realize that some of the later elaborations on school integration
>>were problematic, because they exposed white students to a *real*
>>risk of violence.

Was physical evidence presented on that?

I mean I faced violence at school several times but it wasn't racially
based - just 2 bullies 4 years apart.

>>Now, if we ever had a situation of 'separate but equal' where the
>>"equal" part was actually *enforced*, then history would have travelled
>>down a different path, but that isn't the history of the world we live in.

Absolutely true though I think we all know that in 'separate but
equal' the emphasis was FAR more on the first than the second - in
fact ensuring it actually WAS unequal was the whole point of the
bigotry.

>Yeah, more legislation from the bench by elderly, ignorant, well
>intended white people trying to "save" black people without ever
>bothering to ask them what they thought about it.

If there really was any real effort to make things 'equal' (which I'd
interpret in terms of funding more than any other factor) I'd tend to
agree with you but in terms of what ACTUALLY was going on I'd say the
justices in Brown made the right call.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<9fnf7hh3n4n2jrlb1hoife38975g8dsn6f@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:16 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 21:47:33 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>That is called "censorship" and it is another thing that doesn't
>>>happen in a free society. Do-gooders like you only favor democracy
>>>when the majority agrees with you.
>>
>>Voltaire said well before there wasn't even a United States that
>>freedom of speech WASN'T about those you agreed with but was
>>especially directed to those you DIDN'T agree with.
>>
>>I hear the wokesters say grossly offensive things all the time but I
>>don't advocate putting them in the stocks and throwing rotten tomatoes
>>at them much as some of them would richly deserve it.
>
>On the other hand I hear with great regularity such people demanding
>an end to conservatism, that all conservatives be jailed or worse,
>that conservative political parties be banned, and the like.

Yup - and in the Canadian federal Liberal and NDP parties there are
policy positions on points that are NOT a matter of jurisprudence that
will instantly lead to a person being refused as a candidate. Issues
that are not at all unanimous within their own party.

Abortion is one such and a recent past Liberal party prime minister
said that while he personally opposed it (not surprising since he is
known to be a strong Roman Catholic) he did not consider it his job to
impose his personal morality on the country and that yes he more than
once had had crises of conscience on the point.

Under today's party rules Paul Martin would not be allowed to seek his
party's nomination in any district.

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<2ec919f8-a04f-4e3b-ae31-666e30a8b5e2n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:33 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:10:26 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> They weren't asked for "positions", they were asked what the law was.

Oh, no. They were asked what they thought of Roe vs. Wade and what
their plans were for it, and they evaded the question by saying,
truthfully, what the law was instead.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<07aef23e-f5f0-42ac-a1b8-9f008db86b53n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:35 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 9:16:44 AM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:

> Under today's party rules Paul Martin would not be allowed to seek his
> party's nomination in any district.

Isn't he the one that believes in flying saucers?

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

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Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:40 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 9:35:53 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 9:16:44 AM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:
>
> > Under today's party rules Paul Martin would not be allowed to seek his
> > party's nomination in any district.

> Isn't he the one that believes in flying saucers?

Oh, no; that's Paul Hellyer.

John Savard

Re: Isaiah 9:6

<99pf7htqloiorp5cqq0jgtbroe0ejo61sl@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaiah 9:6
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:48 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 16:11:16 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>Those who favor preventing political activists from influencing
>elections by doing favors for people standing in line waiting to vote
>believe that it is an issue. You don't. And you never question
>anything that supports your narrative, which is why you come across as
>a credulous fool..
>
In the olden days they used to vote by publicly announcing it on a
raised stage and the party agents would give the man (this was pre
suffrage) who had just voted a drink - usually whiskey.

That's a far cry from offering people in line a bottle of water.
(Though if I were waiting 3 hours in line a stand-in to hold my place
in line while I went to the port-a-potty would likely be a far more
effective way to get my vote! Not that I would ever sell it and
certainly not that cheaply!)

Obviously a far more effective way would be shorter lines. Last time
round I voted in the early vote - it happened to be based at the mall
I was at and the line looked to be under 10 minutes so why not? But
then in my area it is unusual to ever wait more than 20-30 minutes.

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