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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

SubjectAuthor
* Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Titus G
+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Jack Bohn
|+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
||+- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Robert Woodward
||`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Christian Weisgerber
|| +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.J. Clarke
|| |`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.John Halpenny
|| | `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |  `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Quadibloc
|| |   `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |    +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Andrew McDowell
|| |    |+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |    ||+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.The Horny Goat
|| |    |||+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.J. Clarke
|| |    ||||`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |    |||| `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.James Nicoll
|| |    |||`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Gary R. Schmidt
|| |    ||| +- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |    ||| `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.The Horny Goat
|| |    ||`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Michael F. Stemper
|| |    || `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.The Horny Goat
|| |    ||  `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Joy Beeson
|| |    ||   `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.James Nicoll
|| |    ||    +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|| |    ||    |`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.James Nicoll
|| |    ||    | `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.rkshullat
|| |    ||    |  `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Andrew McDowell
|| |    ||    `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Lynn McGuire
|| |    ||     `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|| |    |`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Lynn McGuire
|| |    `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Robert Woodward
|| `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Andrew McDowell
|`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Robert Carnegie
| +- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Michael F. Stemper
| +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Christian Weisgerber
| |`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Ross Presser
| `* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|  +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.pete...@gmail.com
|  |+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.J. Clarke
|  ||`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Lynn McGuire
|  || +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.J. Clarke
|  || |`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Dorothy J Heydt
|  || `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.The Horny Goat
|  |+- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Titus G
|  |`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
|  `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Robert Carnegie
+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Andrew McDowell
|+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Titus G
||+* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.pete...@gmail.com
|||`* Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Scott Lurndal
||| +- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)pete...@gmail.com
||| +* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Dorothy J Heydt
||| |`* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofMichael Dworetsky
||| | `* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofDimensional Traveler
||| |  `* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofMichael Dworetsky
||| |   `* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Paul S Person
||| |    +* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)The Horny Goat
||| |    |+- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)James Nicoll
||| |    |`* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)William Hyde
||| |    | +* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)James Nicoll
||| |    | |`- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Robert Carnegie
||| |    | `* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Robert Carnegie
||| |    |  +* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)William Hyde
||| |    |  |`* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Robert Carnegie
||| |    |  | `- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)pete...@gmail.com
||| |    |  `- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofMichael F. Stemper
||| |    `* Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofMichael F. Stemper
||| |     `- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)Scott Lurndal
||| `- Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack ofMichael F. Stemper
||`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Robert Carnegie
|`- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Jack Bohn
`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Christian Weisgerber
 +* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.pete...@gmail.com
 |+- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Paul S Person
 |`* Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Michael Dworetsky
 | `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.J. Clarke
 `- Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.Titus G

Pages:1234
Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

<rBEw3M.1357@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
Message-ID: <rBEw3M.1357@kithrup.com>
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:28:34 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Thu, 5 May 2022 13:28 UTC

In article <7un67h1acie6e3l4tsppktoqpm9o22jf6c@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 4 May 2022 21:43:00 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/30/2022 12:23 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>>> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 12:19:09 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, 29 April 2022 at 14:11:16 UTC+1, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Among the things Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>> From an advertisement for Harpers Magazine, May 2022 Issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> The lack of darkness has been linked to
>>>>>>>> cardiovascular disease, obesity, depression, diabetes, and even cancer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "has been linked to" is a bit more definite than "is associated
>with", assuming it is meant literally and not just chosen from a
>thesaurus of scare words. I suspect the link is not as direct as walking
>through a well-lit parking lot causing these maladies, but runs through
>the lifestyle that has one running around so late at night. This
>disposes me to put these advertisers in the category of people who want
>one specific thing (possibly not even related to what they are
>advocating for) and who are willing to say anything to get it. This puts
>me in the mood to examine their motives more than their facts, which are
>thin on the ground anyway. This all leads to a joke about them using
>facts the way a drunk uses a lamppost, more for support than
>illumination, as is the use they are proposing for lampposts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The claim appears under "Health" at <https://www.darksky.org>
>>>>>> It's mainly about staying up too late and/or melatonin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikipedia says that the non-profit International Dark-Sky
>>>>>> Association was incorporated in 1988.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> International Dark Sky Week ends on Saturday, I suppose
>>>>>> without a firework show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a tangentially related note: I read somewhere recently a
>hypothesis that bright light is needed to trigger... a whatever,
>something in developing eyeballs, and keeping our kids cooped up indoors
>under artificial light much less intense than sunlight is responsible
>for their need for glasses. I follow it only on the level of a Just So
>Story, but if it is advocating any lifestyle change, at least it is
>doing so more subtly, and for a specific purpose, rather than everything
>from cancer to cultural heritage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have better artificial light in the 20th and 21st
>>>>>> centuries than we used to, I'd say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, a "theory" that I've heard going around
>>>>>> is that "normal" sleep for human beings is to go to
>>>>>> bed when it's dark, get up a while later, I forget why,
>>>>>> then go to bed again until morning. Supposedly this
>>>>>> only quite recently ceased to happen but we've
>>>>>> forgotten or covered it up or something. Actual
>>>>>> evidence is, um, light.
>>>>> IIRC, what they did in the meantime was eat their fourth meal [1],
>>>>> dress, and go to the theater. Or the concert hall. Or the ball.
>>>>
>>>> No, Robert is referring to the idea of 'second sleep', which claims
>>>> that pre-industrial people would wake up for an hour or two at night,
>>>> engage in activities, and then go back to sleep.
>>>>
>>>>
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_and_polyphasic_sleep#As_historical_norm
>>>
>>> After a hard day of hunting, gathering, and avoiding cats, rest up a
>>> bit, make babies, then go back to sleep to prepare for another hard
>>> day of hunting, gathering, and avoiding cats.
>>
>>I assume that you are talking about big cats.
>
>Not necessarily. The puma and the cheetah are both considered to be
>small cats.

On grounds of genetics, not size.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
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References: <t4fr47$iuh$1@dont-email.me> <slrnt6o96h.uoe.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> <637f1e85-d0db-439f-831c-3557abc4c40fn@googlegroups.com> <7sidnXIDZJHgEO7_nZ2dnUU7-UXNnZ2d@supernews.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:06 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 09:40:29 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
<platinum198@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 29/04/2022 20:01, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 2:30:10 PM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-29, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From an advertisement for Harpers Magazine, May 2022 Issue.
>>>>
>>>> As the earth is getting warmer, it’s also getting brighter. About 83
>>>> percent of humans—and more than 99 percent of North Americans and
>>>> Europeans—live under light-polluted skies. The planet’s darkness has
>>>> become a rapidly dwindling resource with profound ecological and
>>>> biological effects. The lack of darkness has been linked to
>>> Lies, all lies! It is never dark at night. I have seen countless
>>> movies and TV shows where people roam around at night and there is
>>> always plenty of light to see by. In _Barbarians_ they rode at
>>> speed through the forests of Germania at night! Clearly this
>>> universal depiction must be an accurate reflection of reality.
>>> Don't be taken in by fake news that say otherwise!
>>> --
>>> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
>>
>> I live out in the country. No streetlights.
>>
>> Some nights, if I walk outside, It's literally dark
>> enough that I can walk into a parked car before
>> I see it.
>>
>> Other nights, the moon is bright enough to see some
>> colors by.
>>
>> pt
>
>One night in the early 1970s I was observing at Mt Wilson Observatory
>and stepped outside the 60-inch dome to check for any encroaching
>clouds, or rising fog from the Los Angeles Basin below. (The night
>assistant was taking a brief turn at guiding an exposure.) I had my
>flashlight off to keep dark adaption, and there was no Moonlight. A few
>feet from the door, I bumped into *someone* or *something* big. Really
>startled, I switched on the light, only to see an equally startled deer,
>which scrambled away, hooves clattering on the paved pathway! I
>literally could not see it in the very dark night.

Cool. My luck it would have been a bear.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

<t50n3d$s7k$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of
Darkness.)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 07:31:10 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:31 UTC

On 5/5/2022 2:04 AM, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 16:18, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <DxwbK.40401$JaS8.5000@fx47.iad>,
>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:32:24 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>>>
>>>>> There was an interesting article in the Guardian about an
>>>>> astronomical=20
>>>>> visual illusion regarding Venus colliding with Jupiter and four
>>>>> planets=
>>>> =20
>>>>> visible in a row with perhaps the naked eye or definitely with=20
>>>>> binoculars. Northern Hemisphere.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/apr/30/jupiter-and-venus-will-se=
>>>>>
>>>> em-to-nearly-collide-in-rare-celestial-spectacle
>>>>
>>>> It's just a conjunction. This is just a step up from the laziest of
>>>> lazy jo=
>>>> urnalism,
>>>> articles about full moons, "super moons", and "blood moons".
>>>
>>> OBSF - Wasn't a planetary conjunction the purported cause of the
>>> ganyquake
>>> in 'Farmer in the Sky'?
>>
>> Well, a conjunction of two or three of the other Galileans.
>>
>
> It was in the chapter which, I recall, was entitled "Lineup". He had all
> four large moons lined up one side of Jupiter to cause a "Ganymede
> Quake".  This cannot actually happen, because one of the moons (Io) is
> always on the opposite side of the planet when Europa and Ganymede align
> on one side.
>
In our universe.... :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

<A6WdnTj30pVFeun_nZ2dnUU7-fHNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of
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 by: Michael Dworetsky - Fri, 6 May 2022 09:18 UTC

On 05/05/2022 15:31, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/5/2022 2:04 AM, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 16:18, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <DxwbK.40401$JaS8.5000@fx47.iad>,
>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:32:24 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> There was an interesting article in the Guardian about an
>>>>>> astronomical=20
>>>>>> visual illusion regarding Venus colliding with Jupiter and four
>>>>>> planets=
>>>>> =20
>>>>>> visible in a row with perhaps the naked eye or definitely with=20
>>>>>> binoculars. Northern Hemisphere.=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/apr/30/jupiter-and-venus-will-se=
>>>>>>
>>>>> em-to-nearly-collide-in-rare-celestial-spectacle
>>>>>
>>>>> It's just a conjunction. This is just a step up from the laziest of
>>>>> lazy jo=
>>>>> urnalism,
>>>>> articles about full moons, "super moons", and "blood moons".
>>>>
>>>> OBSF - Wasn't a planetary conjunction the purported cause of the
>>>> ganyquake
>>>> in 'Farmer in the Sky'?
>>>
>>> Well, a conjunction of two or three of the other Galileans.
>>>
>>
>> It was in the chapter which, I recall, was entitled "Lineup". He had
>> all four large moons lined up one side of Jupiter to cause a "Ganymede
>> Quake".  This cannot actually happen, because one of the moons (Io) is
>> always on the opposite side of the planet when Europa and Ganymede
>> align on one side.
>>
> In our universe....  :D
>
>

OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
story and may not have asked.

--
Mike Dworetsky

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:07 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
<platinum198@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 05/05/2022 15:31, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/5/2022 2:04 AM, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 16:18, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <DxwbK.40401$JaS8.5000@fx47.iad>,
>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:32:24 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was an interesting article in the Guardian about an
>>>>>>> astronomical=20
>>>>>>> visual illusion regarding Venus colliding with Jupiter and four
>>>>>>> planets=
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> visible in a row with perhaps the naked eye or definitely with=20
>>>>>>> binoculars. Northern Hemisphere.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/apr/30/jupiter-and-venus-will-se=
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> em-to-nearly-collide-in-rare-celestial-spectacle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's just a conjunction. This is just a step up from the laziest of
>>>>>> lazy jo=
>>>>>> urnalism,
>>>>>> articles about full moons, "super moons", and "blood moons".
>>>>>
>>>>> OBSF - Wasn't a planetary conjunction the purported cause of the
>>>>> ganyquake
>>>>> in 'Farmer in the Sky'?
>>>>
>>>> Well, a conjunction of two or three of the other Galileans.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was in the chapter which, I recall, was entitled "Lineup". He had
>>> all four large moons lined up one side of Jupiter to cause a "Ganymede
>>> Quake".  This cannot actually happen, because one of the moons (Io) is
>>> always on the opposite side of the planet when Europa and Ganymede
>>> align on one side.
>>>
>> In our universe....  :D
>>
>>
>
>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
>story and may not have asked.

And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
tolerated it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
Message-ID: <4esd7hh3uvvnptuhddfk3gf9imgmu6f64u@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sat, 7 May 2022 22:33 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 17:33:32 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
<grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:

>You can get multi-focal lenses, but they can throw rings around images.
> As I was in my late fifties it was recommended that I just age
>gracefully. ;-)
>
>Things had a blue tinge for a few days after the first eye was done, my
>cataracts were very dark by then.
>It wasn't as noticeable after the second eye, presumably my brain had
>gotten used to it.
>
>And the surgeon fixed my astigmatism at the same time.
>
>I usually wear sunglasses when I go outside, it's still just a little
>bit bright. (Yes, putting clothes out on the line can be a pain!)
>
>Now, instead of spending a $lots on glasses with photo-reactive lenses
>and all that every few years, I buy handfuls of $15-20 reading glasses
>in various strengths for various tasks and leave them about the house
>and in the car. +1.5 is my "standard" setting, but I use +1.0 in front
>of the computers, and up to +3.5 for fiddly things. :-)
>
I also have excess tearing but the eye doctor said the only real
solution was surgical which he did not recommend.

I'm about a +7.0 so if and when I do go for cataract surgery I will
ask the doctor about correction (non-astigmatism)

I've worn glasses since my second month of first grade when my teacher
called my mom and suggested she get my eyes checked. Teacher made the
prognosis based on "bright kid, can answer any question verbally, can
clearly read but can't answer any question written on the
blackboard....."

Resulting in my first pair of glasses and complete wonderment by my
mother when we were crossing a major bridge across the harbor on the
way home and asked her what those things down below - meaning the
freighters going in and out of port. What amazed her was that I was
distinguishing the freighters for the first time....which told her a
lot about why I liked to take a book with me when we were going places
in the car!

(That was around the same time I remember seeing my grandmother crying
a lot and hearing her say "19-39" a lot - I didn't learn till much
later that was how she was responding to the Cuban Missile Crisis
which of course would have been far beyond the knowledge of a first
grader but my grandmother was smart enough to know we lived in
Canada's biggest seaport so would be a target if things went sideways)

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
Message-ID: <qvsd7hhfvsvh8c7dsvetgdfe5cf6ovq9r4@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sat, 7 May 2022 22:36 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 21:43:00 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>> After a hard day of hunting, gathering, and avoiding cats, rest up a
>> bit, make babies, then go back to sleep to prepare for another hard
>> day of hunting, gathering, and avoiding cats.
>
>I assume that you are talking about big cats.

Of course - kitty cats didn't enter human history till about 7000-8000
BC in the earliest days of ancient Egypt when agriculture started and
the Egyptians quickly figured out that (a) their grain silos attacted
mice and (b) the mice attracted cats who liked to hunt them. It has
been argued ever since whether humans domesticated cats or they
domesticated us.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 8 May 2022 16:16 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
><platinum198@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
>>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
>>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
>>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
>>story and may not have asked.
>
>And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
>tolerated it.

In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
authors did - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
parts of Time Enough for Love

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 17:10:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: James Nicoll - Sun, 8 May 2022 17:10 UTC

In article <g3rf7h9igonnp3ofv38lflq8qkn5v3ic8j@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
>authors did

Authors generally have somewhere between zero and no say in cover art.
Some may have negative say.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
Injection-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 20:05:43 +0000
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:05 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> >>story and may not have asked.
> >
> >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> >tolerated it.

Not at all in my experience.

> In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> authors did

James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.

- even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
> content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
> parts of Time Enough for Love

That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.

William Hyde

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 20:43:02 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: James Nicoll - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:43 UTC

In article <bdd497cb-ecdd-4e89-9a0a-5d9cc6e65506n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
>> ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
>> >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
>> >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
>> >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
>> >>story and may not have asked.
>> >
>> >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
>> >tolerated it.
>
>Not at all in my experience.
>
>
>> In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
>> authors did
>
>James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
>due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.

Either of these covers would have attracted questions.

http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/f/f7/MTHSLHSCHL1975.jpg
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/e/ee/THDRNTSMMB1979.jpg
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:20 UTC

On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:05:45 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> > <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> > ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> > >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> > >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> > >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> > >>story and may not have asked.
> > >
> > >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> > >tolerated it.
> Not at all in my experience.
> > In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> > authors did
> James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
> due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
> - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
> > content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
> > parts of Time Enough for Love
> That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
> trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.

"Trope Ick of Cancer" hasn't been written yet!

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:27 UTC

On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:43:05 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <bdd497cb-ecdd-4e89...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> >> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> >> ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> >> >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> >> >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> >> >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> >> >>story and may not have asked.
> >> >
> >> >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> >> >tolerated it.
> >
> >Not at all in my experience.
> >
> >
> >> In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> >> authors did
> >
> >James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
> >due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
> Either of these covers would have attracted questions.
>
> http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/f/f7/MTHSLHSCHL1975.jpg
> http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/e/ee/THDRNTSMMB1979.jpg

They should have put the first of those on the
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_plaque>
to make sure aliens don't mess with us.

Although the Pioneers went out in 1972 and 1973
and <http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?264722>
refers to 1975.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
Injection-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 22:29:01 +0000
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 8 May 2022 22:29 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 5:20:12 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:05:45 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> > > <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> > > ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> > > >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> > > >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> > > >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> > > >>story and may not have asked.
> > > >
> > > >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> > > >tolerated it.
> > Not at all in my experience.
> > > In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> > > authors did
> > James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
> > due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
> > - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
> > > content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
> > > parts of Time Enough for Love
> > That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
> > trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.
> "Trope Ick of Cancer" hasn't been written yet!

?

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
Injection-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 00:04:23 +0000
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Mon, 9 May 2022 00:04 UTC

On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 23:29:03 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 5:20:12 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:05:45 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> > > > <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> > > > ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> > > > >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> > > > >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> > > > >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> > > > >>story and may not have asked.
> > > > >
> > > > >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> > > > >tolerated it.
> > > Not at all in my experience.
> > > > In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> > > > authors did
> > > James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
> > > due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
> > > - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
> > > > content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
> > > > parts of Time Enough for Love
> > > That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
> > > trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.
> > "Trope Ick of Cancer" hasn't been written yet!
> ?

Henry Miller did write _Tropic of Cancer_. This is
the name of a zodiacal-geographic boundary on the
Earth, the north edge of "the tropics", but Henry Miller
had in mind the disease... metaphorically, I think.

<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyOwnGrampa>
is often a time travel trope of ick. You travel back in time,
you mingle, you meet someone who... seems familiar...
uh oh. ;-)

The gag doesn't quite work because as far as I gather
from Wikipedia, which isn't eager to tell me /exactly/
what happens, Henry Miller's "cancer" already represents
"ick" in respect of sordid semi-autobiographical scenes.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael F. Stemper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of
Darkness.)
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 08:08:27 -0500
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 9 May 2022 13:08 UTC

On 08/05/2022 16.20, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:05:45 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:

>>> In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
>>> authors did
>> James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
>> due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
>> - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
>>> content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
>>> parts of Time Enough for Love
>> That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
>> trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.
>
> "Trope Ick of Cancer" hasn't been written yet!

Sweet!

--
Michael F. Stemper
The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at
<http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm>
Please read it before posting.

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 9 May 2022 14:17 UTC

On 06/05/2022 10.07, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> <platinum198@btinternet.com> wrote:

>> OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
>> to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
>> he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
>> other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
>> story and may not have asked.
>
> And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> tolerated it.

I am quite skeptical of the idea that parents bought the Scribner's
juveniles for their kids because of the science in them. In fact, I
rather doubt that parents were even aware of it.

(Since I was still in single digits when RAH stopped writing juveniles,
I am not speaking from personal experience.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding;
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 5:04:25 PM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 23:29:03 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 5:20:12 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 21:05:45 UTC+1, William Hyde wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 12:16:21 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:07:31 -0700, Paul S Person
> > > > > <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
> > > > > ><plati...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
> > > > > >>to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
> > > > > >>he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
> > > > > >>other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
> > > > > >>story and may not have asked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
> > > > > >tolerated it.
> > > > Not at all in my experience.
> > > > > In fairness Heinlein didn't go in for softcore porn covers as some
> > > > > authors did
> > > > James has mentioned in the past at least one Heinlein he couldn't bring to school
> > > > due to the cover. But RAH had no control over that cover or any other.
> > > > - even though he routinely pushed the envelope on his
> > > > > content. I'm thinking of things like I Will Fear No Evil or certain
> > > > > parts of Time Enough for Love
> > > > That envelope only existed in the minds of old fashioned fans. Though I admit that
> > > > trans-temporal incest wasn't something Henry Miller could have written about.
> > > "Trope Ick of Cancer" hasn't been written yet!
> > ?
> Henry Miller did write _Tropic of Cancer_. This is
> the name of a zodiacal-geographic boundary on the
> Earth, the north edge of "the tropics", but Henry Miller
> had in mind the disease... metaphorically, I think.

Perhaps, but be aware that another of his novels is 'Tropic of Capricorn'.

Pt.

Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)

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From: sco...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
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Subject: Re: Planetary Conjunction (was Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.)
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:19 UTC

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:
>On 06/05/2022 10.07, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:18:14 +0100, Michael Dworetsky
>> <platinum198@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>> OK, but Heinlein was always keen to insert some real science in his work
>>> to help educate his readers (in this case, mostly teen-age boys). And
>>> he was friends with a Mt Wilson astronomer, Dr R S Richardson. On the
>>> other hand he was not going to let details get in the way of a good
>>> story and may not have asked.
>>
>> And that "educational" purpose was the only reason the parents
>> tolerated it.
>
>I am quite skeptical of the idea that parents bought the Scribner's
>juveniles for their kids because of the science in them. In fact, I
>rather doubt that parents were even aware of it.

I will attest that my Father bought "Have Spacesuit Will Travel" for
me specifically for the science in it[*], this would have been circa 1971,
probably the Ballantine edition.

[*] He had asked a co-worker for a suggestion.

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: jbee...@invalid.net.invalid (Joy Beeson)
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Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
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 by: Joy Beeson - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:39 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.

At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
singing the praises of contact lenses.

Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
again.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22 UTC

In article <4rbm7h5oio2bm48stm2bhc1l2oqidqv01d@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>wrote:
>
>> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
>> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.
>
>At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
>singing the praises of contact lenses.
>
>Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
>again.
>
I let the local optometry students do my exams because I have some
eye issues that aren't common. Last one, I rattled off to the
student areas where she was going to have trouble testing me.
She was a little surprised at the detail but as I pointed out,
I've had over fifty eye exams so I should be pretty familiar
with how they work and where the problems will be.

Happily, they retired the machine that tests eye pressure by
prodding the eye. That test never worked, and eye pressure
is one of my potential issues.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 11 May 2022 15:36 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <4rbm7h5oio2bm48stm2bhc1l2oqidqv01d@4ax.com>,
>Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
>>> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.
>>
>>At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
>>singing the praises of contact lenses.
>>
>>Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
>>again.
>>
>I let the local optometry students do my exams because I have some
>eye issues that aren't common. Last one, I rattled off to the
>student areas where she was going to have trouble testing me.
>She was a little surprised at the detail but as I pointed out,
>I've had over fifty eye exams so I should be pretty familiar
>with how they work and where the problems will be.
>
>Happily, they retired the machine that tests eye pressure by
>prodding the eye. That test never worked, and eye pressure
>is one of my potential issues.

Prodded it with a puff of air, IIRC.

And, yes, it was good to see it go.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:04:44 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:04 UTC

In article <evln7h1l9hph27tarui8hslff3331rpfcc@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <4rbm7h5oio2bm48stm2bhc1l2oqidqv01d@4ax.com>,
>>Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
>>>> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.
>>>
>>>At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
>>>singing the praises of contact lenses.
>>>
>>>Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
>>>again.
>>>
>>I let the local optometry students do my exams because I have some
>>eye issues that aren't common. Last one, I rattled off to the
>>student areas where she was going to have trouble testing me.
>>She was a little surprised at the detail but as I pointed out,
>>I've had over fifty eye exams so I should be pretty familiar
>>with how they work and where the problems will be.
>>
>>Happily, they retired the machine that tests eye pressure by
>>prodding the eye. That test never worked, and eye pressure
>>is one of my potential issues.
>
>Prodded it with a puff of air, IIRC.
>
>And, yes, it was good to see it go.

This one had an actually physical probe. Maybe it was some cutting
edge device schools got. My flinch reflex is pretty developed and we
never, ever got it to work on me. Even the puff requires me to physically
hold my head in place so it won't jerk back. It must look stupid but it
works.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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 by: rkshul...@rosettacondot.com - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:51 UTC

James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <evln7h1l9hph27tarui8hslff3331rpfcc@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4rbm7h5oio2bm48stm2bhc1l2oqidqv01d@4ax.com>,
>>>Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
>>>>> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.
>>>>
>>>>At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
>>>>singing the praises of contact lenses.
>>>>
>>>>Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
>>>>again.
>>>>
>>>I let the local optometry students do my exams because I have some
>>>eye issues that aren't common. Last one, I rattled off to the
>>>student areas where she was going to have trouble testing me.
>>>She was a little surprised at the detail but as I pointed out,
>>>I've had over fifty eye exams so I should be pretty familiar
>>>with how they work and where the problems will be.
>>>
>>>Happily, they retired the machine that tests eye pressure by
>>>prodding the eye. That test never worked, and eye pressure
>>>is one of my potential issues.
>>
>>Prodded it with a puff of air, IIRC.
>>
>>And, yes, it was good to see it go.
>
> This one had an actually physical probe. Maybe it was some cutting
> edge device schools got. My flinch reflex is pretty developed and we
> never, ever got it to work on me. Even the puff requires me to physically
> hold my head in place so it won't jerk back. It must look stupid but it
> works.

I just had an exam on Monday and this sounds like the gadget they used.
Looked like an oversized pen or marker? They used it after putting in
numbing drops and I couldn't tell if they touched my eyeball with it or not.
I apparently have an underdeveloped flinch reflex.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.

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Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Light Pollution, Lack of Darkness.
From: mcdowell...@sky.com (Andrew McDowell)
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 by: Andrew McDowell - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:10 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:53:06 PM UTC+1, rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> > In article <evln7h1l9hph27tar...@4ax.com>,
> > Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >>Nicoll) wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <4rbm7h5oio2bm48st...@4ax.com>,
> >>>Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:03:39 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've always been a bit creeped out by putting things on the surface of
> >>>>> my eyeball so I'm partial to glasses.
> >>>>
> >>>>At my first visit to a new eye doctor, he opened the interview by
> >>>>singing the praises of contact lenses.
> >>>>
> >>>>Then he tried to put eye drops in, and the subject never came up
> >>>>again.
> >>>>
> >>>I let the local optometry students do my exams because I have some
> >>>eye issues that aren't common. Last one, I rattled off to the
> >>>student areas where she was going to have trouble testing me.
> >>>She was a little surprised at the detail but as I pointed out,
> >>>I've had over fifty eye exams so I should be pretty familiar
> >>>with how they work and where the problems will be.
> >>>
> >>>Happily, they retired the machine that tests eye pressure by
> >>>prodding the eye. That test never worked, and eye pressure
> >>>is one of my potential issues.
> >>
> >>Prodded it with a puff of air, IIRC.
> >>
> >>And, yes, it was good to see it go.
> >
> > This one had an actually physical probe. Maybe it was some cutting
> > edge device schools got. My flinch reflex is pretty developed and we
> > never, ever got it to work on me. Even the puff requires me to physically
> > hold my head in place so it won't jerk back. It must look stupid but it
> > works.
> I just had an exam on Monday and this sounds like the gadget they used.
> Looked like an oversized pen or marker? They used it after putting in
> numbing drops and I couldn't tell if they touched my eyeball with it or not.
> I apparently have an underdeveloped flinch reflex.
>
> Robert
> --
> Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
One possibility is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corneal_pachymetry

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