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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

SubjectAuthor
* A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
|+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
|| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJames Nicoll
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDorothy J Heydt
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
||  +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
||  |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDan Swartzendruber
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJay E. Morris
||  |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
||  |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||  |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
||  |     `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decisionpete...@gmail.com
||  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionBice
||   `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Woodward
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJoy Beeson
| `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | ||+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | ||| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | ||| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | |||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | |||  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
| | | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |   +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |    +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |    |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |     +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |     | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |     |  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |      `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |       +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |       `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |        `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |         `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |          ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |          | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | | |          +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |          `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |           `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |            `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRoss Presser
| | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston

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Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<lrks7h96r5nmeqtt9lu7frlpl1a1gqu9ss@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Message-ID: <lrks7h96r5nmeqtt9lu7frlpl1a1gqu9ss@4ax.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 13 May 2022 12:50 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 12:25:42 GMT,
eichlertwothedigitnotspelled@comcast.net (Bice) wrote:

>On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
><rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the State
>>> exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them said so, IIRC,
>>> while running in a primary.
>>
>>I would like to see a citation for that.
>
>"Don't talk to me about separation of church and state. Church and
>state was written because the state has no business in our church. But
>we are the church. We are the church, and we run the state."
>
>-- Georgia gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor
>
>Quote for May 2, 2022 from:
>
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/media/say_what/archive?page=2i

Which was actually within the Founders' intent. Several states, at
the time the Constitution was ratified, had state religions. The
Establishment Clause was intended to reassure them that the Federal
government would not attempt to alter or abolish their state
religions. The notion that it created an individual freedom of
religion came later.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73386&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73386

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 13 May 2022 15:39 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

<snippo>

>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was granted
>based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA Constitution. There
>is no such right even though I think that there should be.

Huh.

So a warrant is not required to search a home?

Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in your own
home?

Are you sure you are living in reality?

>It appears that the right to privacy is being struck down and SCOTUS is
>going back to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth Amendment says that all
>rights not explicitly listed here are reserved to the States. So each
>State will be able to decide what they want to do about abortion.

That does appear to be their argument. Whether it will become law
remains to be seen.

And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests that
the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a victory lap is
because they believe they can win in November if the issue is the
Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade they may lose a lot of
suburban women's votes. Although I suppose that will depend on how
quickly the various single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out
their single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE965E6FF7943taustingmail@85.12.62.245>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
References: <e4e8173c-5d40-48e8-b88c-b8fc534e7cfcn@googlegroups.com> <7ce57046-ad10-4899-bf70-c6afb2d55a1an@googlegroups.com> <h23l7hl7de851bq7taoc3prbp9ijfk6cse@4ax.com> <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <XnsAE946B9B697A3taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <4ocq7htaa6pmopea9j0i418rcskih7p10u@4ax.com> <t5jobd$occ$1@dont-email.me> <3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com>
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Fri, 13 May 2022 16:17 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snippo>
>
>>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was
>>granted based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA
>>Constitution. There is no such right even though I think that
>>there should be.
>
> Huh.
>
> So a warrant is not required to search a home?
>
> Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in
> your own home?

Explicity and specifically covered by the 4th Amendment. Which
specifically mentiones the issuing of warrants upon probably cause.

Moron.
>
> Are you sure you are living in reality?

Are you?
>
>>It appears that the right to privacy is being struck down and
>>SCOTUS is going back to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth
>>Amendment says that all rights not explicitly listed here are
>>reserved to the States. So each State will be able to decide
>>what they want to do about abortion.
>
> That does appear to be their argument. Whether it will become
> law remains to be seen.

It's been used to strike down federal overreach before. More than
once. And appropriately so.
>
> And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests
> that the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a
> victory lap is because they believe they can win in November if
> the issue is the Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade
> they may lose a lot of suburban women's votes. Although I
> suppose that will depend on how quickly the various single-issue
> (so far) repressive States roll out their single-issue (so far)
> totalitarian regimes.

Regardless of whether or not this draft becomes a real ruling, it
will bring out a lot of voters come November on *both* sides.

Your insane fascist rhetoric, however, will only encourage voters
from *one* side. People like you are the reason so many people,
including Democrat hardliners, are expecting the Democrats to lose
the Senate in November, and why the House is in play as well. Y'all
shouldn't have stopped pretending to not be fascists planning a
coup.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE965EA535BF4taustingmail@85.12.62.245>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
References: <e4e8173c-5d40-48e8-b88c-b8fc534e7cfcn@googlegroups.com> <7ce57046-ad10-4899-bf70-c6afb2d55a1an@googlegroups.com> <h23l7hl7de851bq7taoc3prbp9ijfk6cse@4ax.com> <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <XnsAE946B9B697A3taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <4ocq7htaa6pmopea9j0i418rcskih7p10u@4ax.com> <fce521e7-925b-4c85-a872-f2f4db175ee8n@googlegroups.com> <627e4df7.140717984@localhost>
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Fri, 13 May 2022 16:18 UTC

eichlertwothedigitnotspelled@comcast.net (Bice) wrote in
news:627e4df7.140717984@localhost:

> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
> <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the
>>> State exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them
>>> said so, IIRC, while running in a primary.
>>
>>I would like to see a citation for that.
>
> "Don't talk to me about separation of church and state. Church
> and state was written because the state has no business in our
> church. But we are the church. We are the church, and we run the
> state."
>
> -- Georgia gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor
>
> Quote for May 2, 2022 from:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/media/say_what/archive?
> page=2
>
Which doesn't really say what Paul claims it said, but that's hardly
a surprise, given how stupid he is.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<t5m366$4lr$2@dont-email.me>

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:06:14 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Alan - Fri, 13 May 2022 17:06 UTC

On 2022-05-13 9:18 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> eichlertwothedigitnotspelled@comcast.net (Bice) wrote in
> news:627e4df7.140717984@localhost:
>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
>> <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the
>>>> State exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them
>>>> said so, IIRC, while running in a primary.
>>>
>>> I would like to see a citation for that.
>>
>> "Don't talk to me about separation of church and state. Church
>> and state was written because the state has no business in our
>> church. But we are the church. We are the church, and we run the
>> state."
>>
>> -- Georgia gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor
>>
>> Quote for May 2, 2022 from:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/media/say_what/archive?
>> page=2
>>
> Which doesn't really say what Paul claims it said, but that's hardly
> a surprise, given how stupid he is.
>

'Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the State
exists to do whatever they tell it to do.'

'"But we are the church. We are the church, and we run the state."'

So... ...how do those differ?

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 13 May 2022 21:44 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><snippo>
>
>>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was granted
>>based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA Constitution. There
>>is no such right even though I think that there should be.
>
>Huh.
>
>So a warrant is not required to search a home?
>
>Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in your own
>home?

The full text of the Fourth Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and
seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue,
but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affi rmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched,
and the persons or things to be seized."

Whether or not there is a "right to privacy" is irrelevant to the
matter of searches and warrants. Warrants are explicitly required by
the Constitution.

>Are you sure you are living in reality?
>
>>It appears that the right to privacy is being struck down and SCOTUS is
>>going back to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth Amendment says that all
>>rights not explicitly listed here are reserved to the States. So each
>>State will be able to decide what they want to do about abortion.
>
>That does appear to be their argument. Whether it will become law
>remains to be seen.
>
>And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests that
>the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a victory lap is
>because they believe they can win in November if the issue is the
>Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade they may lose a lot of
>suburban women's votes. Although I suppose that will depend on how
>quickly the various single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out
>their single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
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 by: Kevrob - Fri, 13 May 2022 22:46 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
> >
> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath independently
> >> of the mother".
> >
> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
> >post about when personhood begins.
> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
> providing assistance is allowed.
>
> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
> criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
> --

Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when
you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology you have
colored outside the constitutional lines.

Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea
that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some
sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard
of any theory of souls growing and developing the way the human
body and mind do.

Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
personhood of the fetus in the womb.

https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-FINAL.pdf

--
Kevin R

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sat, 14 May 2022 00:37 UTC

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 23:46:57 UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> > <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
> > >
> > >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath independently
> > >> of the mother".
> > >
> > >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
> > >post about when personhood begins.
> > It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
> > Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
> > providing assistance is allowed.
> >
> > Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
> > criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
> > Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
> > --
> Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
> the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
> religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
> and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when
> you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology you have
> colored outside the constitutional lines.
>
> Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea
> that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some
> sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard
> of any theory of souls growing and developing the way the human
> body and mind do.

Unless you're vegetarian, I guess you've eaten critters
that had some kind of a brain. We make a difference for
a human brain that is fully developed, but they say that
takes around 20 years.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 19:18:15 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 02:18 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
<rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the State
>> exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them said so, IIRC,
>> while running in a primary.
>
>I would like to see a citation for that.

Someone else found it.

This is very traditonal: Calvin applied it, IIRC, in Geneva. To be
fair, it was also what the Bishop of Rome was doing from the Fall of
the Roman Empire in the West to the rise of nationalism and national
churches about 1000 years later.

The problem here, of course, is that there is no unique "church" to be
in control, just a very large number of churches who do not agree on
every point.

>> (Another high-quality candidate defined
>> the family as "one /white/ man, one /white/ woman, and their
>> children". The true meaning of "traditional family values" as
>> understood by the Republican Party doesn't get much clearer than
>> that.)
>
>That too, please.

Unfortunately, it was some article on the Win10 News thingy, I think.

>I'm not doubting your memory, I just want to learn more about these events.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sat, 14 May 2022 06:55 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 6:37:41 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Unless you're vegetarian, I guess you've eaten critters
> that had some kind of a brain. We make a difference for
> a human brain that is fully developed, but they say that
> takes around 20 years.

But babies start talking a lot earlier than at 20 years old.

What other creature can do that?

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sat, 14 May 2022 12:46 UTC

On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 07:55:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 6:37:41 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > Unless you're vegetarian, I guess you've eaten critters
> > that had some kind of a brain. We make a difference for
> > a human brain that is fully developed, but they say that
> > takes around 20 years.
> But babies start talking a lot earlier than at 20 years old.
>
> What other creature can do that?

Let's see. However, I propose that intelligence is demonstrated
when they can shut up.
<https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=892529498119317> (?)
(should be a video advertisement for headache pills)

<https://www.northernparrots.com/how-do-parrots-learn-to-talk-blog305/>

"Most animals are born already knowing every vocalization
of their species language. They also understand and know
how to use the 'language' of their species.

"Parrots are one of only six known groups of animals that
must develop (learn) a verbal language to be able to socially
interact. This select group includes whales and dolphins,
songbirds, bats, hummingbirds, humans and other primates
and Parrots."

I think this doesn't cover performing seals.

Then there are critters that speak each other's languages
besides ours. This came up recently.
<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01274-1>
"Bats buzz like hornets to scare off owl predators
"Alarming impression is first known case of a mammal
copying an insect to deter hostile species."

I suppose bats do a lot of things that we don't hear about...

Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:43:02 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 15:43 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 09:17:00 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snippo>
>>
>>>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was
>>>granted based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA
>>>Constitution. There is no such right even though I think that
>>>there should be.
>>
>> Huh.
>>
>> So a warrant is not required to search a home?
>>
>> Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in
>> your own home?
>
>Explicity and specifically covered by the 4th Amendment. Which
>specifically mentiones the issuing of warrants upon probably cause.

So, then, the Constitution /does/ recognize a right to privacy.

Despite the assertion I was responding to.

>Moron.

You confirmed my point.

Am I therefore a moron ... because you are one?
>> Are you sure you are living in reality?
>
>Are you?

Again, the question was asked of the person I was responding to.

Who was not you.

So I appear to be living in reality. You appear to be living in
"everything is about me, whether it is or not" land.
>>>It appears that the right to privacy is being struck down and
>>>SCOTUS is going back to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth
>>>Amendment says that all rights not explicitly listed here are
>>>reserved to the States. So each State will be able to decide
>>>what they want to do about abortion.
>>
>> That does appear to be their argument. Whether it will become
>> law remains to be seen.
>
>It's been used to strike down federal overreach before. More than
>once. And appropriately so.

That's perfectly fine. The States that legalized MJ wish it could
apply to that issue as well. But I was saying that they have not
actually overturned Roe v Wade yet, so the argument is (at present)
moot.
>> And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests
>> that the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a
>> victory lap is because they believe they can win in November if
>> the issue is the Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade
>> they may lose a lot of suburban women's votes. Although I
>> suppose that will depend on how quickly the various single-issue
>> (so far) repressive States roll out their single-issue (so far)
>> totalitarian regimes.
>
>Regardless of whether or not this draft becomes a real ruling, it
>will bring out a lot of voters come November on *both* sides.

Don't see why it would pump up the Republicans. They've been voting
Republican to overturn Roe v Wade for decades and, if it isn't
overturned now, they will no doubt continue to vote Republican.

>Your insane fascist rhetoric, however, will only encourage voters
>from *one* side. People like you are the reason so many people,
>including Democrat hardliners, are expecting the Democrats to lose
>the Senate in November, and why the House is in play as well. Y'all
>shouldn't have stopped pretending to not be fascists planning a
>coup.

It is States like Florida and Texas that are the fascists here. Nice
projection, though. Remember: the Republican Party became the Party of
Hitler when Ronnie honored the dead SS troopers who shot American POWs
during the Battle of the Bulge. Their commitment to fascism is (in far
too many cases, particularly at the top) unwavering.

But we will see how far they go in their attempt to suppress
abortions. And probably contraception as well. It'll be interesting to
see if they exempt non-whites from the bans, as they appear to only be
interested in increasing the supply of white babies. (One of the
footnotes [46?] to the draft makes this quite clear.)
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:45:11 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 15:45 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 17:44:24 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>><snippo>
>>
>>>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was granted
>>>based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA Constitution. There
>>>is no such right even though I think that there should be.
>>
>>Huh.
>>
>>So a warrant is not required to search a home?
>>
>>Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in your own
>>home?
>
>The full text of the Fourth Amendment:
>
>"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
>papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and
>seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue,
>but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affi rmation, and
>particularly describing the place to be searched,
>and the persons or things to be seized."
>
>Whether or not there is a "right to privacy" is irrelevant to the
>matter of searches and warrants. Warrants are explicitly required by
>the Constitution.

Of course, that has /nothing/ to do with privacy.

Do you even know what "privacy" means?

And, BTW, I wasn't responding to you. But thanks for providing the
source material.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:46:35 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 15:46 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:06:14 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-05-13 9:18 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> eichlertwothedigitnotspelled@comcast.net (Bice) wrote in
>> news:627e4df7.140717984@localhost:
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
>>> <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the
>>>>> State exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them
>>>>> said so, IIRC, while running in a primary.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to see a citation for that.
>>>
>>> "Don't talk to me about separation of church and state. Church
>>> and state was written because the state has no business in our
>>> church. But we are the church. We are the church, and we run the
>>> state."
>>>
>>> -- Georgia gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor
>>>
>>> Quote for May 2, 2022 from:
>>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/media/say_what/archive?
>>> page=2
>>>
>> Which doesn't really say what Paul claims it said, but that's hardly
>> a surprise, given how stupid he is.
>>
>
>
>'Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the State
>exists to do whatever they tell it to do.'
>
>'"But we are the church. We are the church, and we run the state."'
>
>So... ...how do those differ?

I'm taking it for granted that the origin of this attitude is
classical Calvinism.

But I suppose the person quoted could have come up with the idea on
his own.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 15:58 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >
>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath independently
>> >> of the mother".
>> >
>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
>> >post about when personhood begins.
>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>
>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
>> criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>> --
>
>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
>religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when
>you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology you have
>colored outside the constitutional lines.
>
>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea
>that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some
>sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard
>of any theory of souls growing and developing the way the human
>body and mind do.

I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a
person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as
well.

He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
birth certificate.

>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>
>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-FINAL.pdf

Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from
Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian
viewpoint would be much the same as given here.

My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject
captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not
pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any
of its appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that
even the idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 14 May 2022 16:08 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 17:37:38 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 23:46:57 UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> > On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> > <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> > >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath independently
>> > >> of the mother".
>> > >
>> > >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
>> > >post about when personhood begins.
>> > It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>> > Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>> > providing assistance is allowed.
>> >
>> > Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
>> > criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>> > Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>> > --
>> Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>> the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
>> religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>> and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when
>> you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology you have
>> colored outside the constitutional lines.
>>
>> Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea
>> that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some
>> sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard
>> of any theory of souls growing and developing the way the human
>> body and mind do.
>
>Unless you're vegetarian, I guess you've eaten critters
>that had some kind of a brain. We make a difference for
>a human brain that is fully developed, but they say that
>takes around 20 years.

One problem is that "soul" is a vague term. Well, unless you consider
"psychology" to be what it was originally intended to be -- the
scientific study of the soul (psyche in Greek). But pretty much nobody
does that any more.

Aristotle recognized three types of soul, one for plants, one for
animals, and one for humans. The plant souls were concerned with
nutrition. The animal souls were concerned with movement, but
included/also handled nutrition. The human souls were concerned with
reason, but included/also handled nutrition and movement.

Like the evolution of "an evil spirit from the Lord" to "demon", the
"soul" may have been a late addition to Israeli (or even early Jewish)
thought. The resurrection of the dead, after all, is a /bodily/
resurrection, not just an ascent of the soul.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: Magew...@nc.rr.com (Magewolf)
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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>> >
>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
>>> >post about when personhood begins.
>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>
>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
>>> criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>> --
>>
>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>constitutional lines.
>>
>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>
> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a person
> begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as well.
>
> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web and
> found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
> birth certificate.
>
>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>
>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
FINAL.pdf
>
> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from Judaism
> so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian viewpoint would
> be much the same as given here.
>
> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject captial
> punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not pro-life.
> Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any of its
> appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that even the
> idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.

Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
Being born to the wrong person?

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Quadibloc - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:29 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:58:56 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:

> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
> birth certificate.

However, Canada's definition of birth does _not_ require the baby to
have taken its first breath.

But the definition of birth is about as relevant to the abortion debate
as the definition of weaning.

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:32 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.

You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
vocalize, but only humans have *language*. Although our
hopes were once raised in respect of chimps, and even
gorillas, involving sign language rather than vocalizations.

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE9781551DD8Btaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232>

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:42 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:bsiv7ht814i0pjevk4f6u1ocsr9l1rsdq6@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 13 May 2022 09:17:00 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:48:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snippo>
>>>
>>>>No, the actual issue is that the federal abortion right was
>>>>granted based on a non-existent right to privacy in the USA
>>>>Constitution. There is no such right even though I think that
>>>>there should be.
>>>
>>> Huh.
>>>
>>> So a warrant is not required to search a home?
>>>
>>> Or it isn't required because there is no right to privacy in
>>> your own home?
>>
>>Explicity and specifically covered by the 4th Amendment. Which
>>specifically mentiones the issuing of warrants upon probably
>>cause.
>
> So, then, the Constitution /does/ recognize a right to privacy.

Not speicically, no. It recognizes a right to be "secure in your
home" and requires a warrant.

Only a fucking moron would see that as the same thing.
>
> Despite the assertion I was responding to.

Moron.
>
>>Moron.
>
> You confirmed my point.

You confirm that you're a moron with every post.
>
> Am I therefore a moron ... because you are one?

You are a moron because you are a moron. I assume your parents gave
you defective DNA, and probably fed you drugs as a child.
>
>>> Are you sure you are living in reality?
>>
>>Are you?
>
> Again, the question was asked of the person I was responding to.
>
> Who was not you.

You didn't answer it. And you won't, because you don't like the
answer.
>
> So I appear to be living in reality.

Delusional morons often hallucinate that.

>You appear to be living in
> "everything is about me, whether it is or not" land.

And? You exist for my amusement. You certainly lack the brains to
have any other purpose.
>
>>>>It appears that the right to privacy is being struck down and
>>>>SCOTUS is going back to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth
>>>>Amendment says that all rights not explicitly listed here are
>>>>reserved to the States. So each State will be able to decide
>>>>what they want to do about abortion.
>>>
>>> That does appear to be their argument. Whether it will become
>>> law remains to be seen.
>>
>>It's been used to strike down federal overreach before. More
>>than once. And appropriately so.
>
> That's perfectly fine. The States that legalized MJ wish it
> could apply to that issue as well.

There is actually - a lot of - interstate (and international)
commerce there, which is explicitly within the federal purvue.

> But I was saying that they
> have not actually overturned Roe v Wade yet, so the argument is
> (at present) moot.

The draft, however, indicates they have voted to do so. They're
just refining the language of the ruling before publishing it. It's
*possible* they'll change their minds, but given the 6 to 3
majority of the sane ones, it seems unlikely.
>
>>> And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests
>>> that the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a
>>> victory lap is because they believe they can win in November
>>> if the issue is the Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v
>>> Wade they may lose a lot of suburban women's votes. Although I
>>> suppose that will depend on how quickly the various
>>> single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out their
>>> single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.
>>
>>Regardless of whether or not this draft becomes a real ruling,
>>it will bring out a lot of voters come November on *both* sides.
>
> Don't see why it would pump up the Republicans.

You wouldn't, being a moron.

> They've been
> voting Republican to overturn Roe v Wade for decades and, if it
> isn't overturned now, they will no doubt continue to vote
> Republican.

The Democrat fascists in control of Congress right now are looking
for ways to subvert the authority of the Supreme Court over this,
starting with a bill that would also conflict with the 10th
Amendment if passed (and very blatantly so).

There will be no one in the US who is not aware of how thin the
Democrat fascists' majority is in the Senate, and the House can
change hands in every election.

So enjoy your fantasty while it lasts. Even the most hard core
Democrat propagandists are expecting them to lose the Senate in
November.
>
>>Your insane fascist rhetoric, however, will only encourage
>>voters from *one* side. People like you are the reason so many
>>people, including Democrat hardliners, are expecting the
>>Democrats to lose the Senate in November, and why the House is
>>in play as well. Y'all shouldn't have stopped pretending to not
>>be fascists planning a coup.
>
> It is States like Florida and Texas that are the fascists here.

It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise to
power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an instructiona
manual.

> Nice projection, though.

Fascist hallucination.

> Remember: the Republican Party became
> the Party of Hitler when Ronnie honored the dead SS troopers who
> shot American POWs during the Battle of the Bulge. Their
> commitment to fascism is (in far too many cases, particularly at
> the top) unwavering.

If you'd take your meds, the voices would stop telling your to do
things you get in trouble for. Or maybe not.
>
> But we will see how far they go in their attempt to suppress
> abortions. And probably contraception as well.

More hallucinations. Half of Republicans are women, after all.

> It'll be
> interesting to see if they exempt non-whites from the bans, as
> they appear to only be interested in increasing the supply of
> white babies. (One of the footnotes [46?] to the draft makes
> this quite clear.)

Take your meds. Seriously. You *need* them.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
> wrote:
>
>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>
> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.

Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.

Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to describe humans
to other crows. Which means that if you piss off a crow (they're
quite vindictive), it will describe you to all the other crows for
miles around, and *every* crow will hate you, even the first time
they see you. And will pass it on to their offspring, so every crown
in the area will hate you long after the one you pissed off is dead.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sat, 14 May 2022 20:00 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:

> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise to
> power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an instruction
> manual.

I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has recently
struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...

first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten Germans,

and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,

and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and then
goes on for more, and more...

is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.

> Half of Republicans are women, after all.

Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Alan - Sat, 14 May 2022 21:33 UTC

On 2022-05-14 11:22 a.m., Magewolf wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>>> independently of the mother".
>>>>>
>>>>> That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
>>>>> post about when personhood begins.
>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
>>>> criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>>> --
>>>
>>> Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>> the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>> values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>> and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>> to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>> constitutional lines.
>>>
>>> Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>> not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>> psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>> souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>>
>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a person
>> begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as well.
>>
>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web and
>> found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>> birth certificate.
>>
>>> Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>> personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>
>>> https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
> FINAL.pdf
>>
>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from Judaism
>> so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian viewpoint would
>> be much the same as given here.
>>
>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject captial
>> punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not pro-life.
>> Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any of its
>> appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that even the
>> idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>
> Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
> Being born to the wrong person?

What action has a child taken to be "imprisoned" by his/her parents?

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:02:54 +1200
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 by: Titus G - Sun, 15 May 2022 00:02 UTC

On 15/05/22 04:08, Paul S Person wrote:
snippage and editing
>
> Aristotle recognized three types of soul, one for plants, one for
> animals, and one for humans. The plant souls were concerned with
> nutrition.
..

He didn't know much about plants then, did he?

The animal souls were [also] concerned with movement,.

..
He didn't know much about animals then, did he?
..

The human souls were [also] concerned with reason.

He didn't know much about humans then, did he?

(Aristotle, Aristotle, such a bugger for the bottle?)

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Titus G - Sun, 15 May 2022 00:18 UTC

On 14/05/22 10:46, Kevrob wrote:
snip.
>
> Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
> personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>
> https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-FINAL.pdf
>

Israel has one of the most liberal abortion practices.
The fetus is not a life until the head or most of the body is outside
the mother. Mishna.

The following is short but interesting and informative:

https://israelnewsagency.com/jewish-law-abortion-supreme-court/

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