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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

SubjectAuthor
* A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
|+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
|| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJames Nicoll
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDorothy J Heydt
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
||  +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
||  |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDan Swartzendruber
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJay E. Morris
||  |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
||  |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||  |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
||  |     `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decisionpete...@gmail.com
||  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionBice
||   `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Woodward
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJoy Beeson
| `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | ||+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | ||| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | ||| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | |||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | |||  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
| | | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |   +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |    +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |    |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |     +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |     | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |     |  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |      `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |       +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |       `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |        `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |         `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |          ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |          | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | | |          +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |          `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |           `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |            `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRoss Presser
| | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston

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Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE97B7AAA7ACAtaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <e4e8173c-5d40-48e8-b88c-b8fc534e7cfcn@googlegroups.com> <7ce57046-ad10-4899-bf70-c6afb2d55a1an@googlegroups.com> <h23l7hl7de851bq7taoc3prbp9ijfk6cse@4ax.com> <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <XnsAE946B9B697A3taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <4ocq7htaa6pmopea9j0i418rcskih7p10u@4ax.com> <t5jobd$occ$1@dont-email.me> <3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com> <XnsAE965E6FF7943taustingmail@85.12.62.245> <bsiv7ht814i0pjevk4f6u1ocsr9l1rsdq6@4ax.com> <XnsAE9781551DD8Btaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232> <a7ec5245-47f6-41eb-8e6c-03941bf2a9fcn@googlegroups.com>
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Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 01:03:21 GMT
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 01:03 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:a7ec5245-47f6-41eb-8e6c-03941bf2a9fcn@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
> wrote:
>
>> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise
>> to power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an
>> instruction manual.
>
> I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has
> recently struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...
>
> first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten
> Germans,
>
> and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,
>
> and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and
> then goes on for more, and more...
>
> is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.

You are not the first to observe the similarity.
>
>> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>
> Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought

There's no evidence that you ever have.

> that the proportion would
> have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's
> confirmation hearing, and also for various reasons at various
> times during Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>
Or stupid.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<fas08htqo2rqqdf36s65snh64520jtti52@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Message-ID: <fas08htqo2rqqdf36s65snh64520jtti52@4ax.com>
References: <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <XnsAE946B9B697A3taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <4ocq7htaa6pmopea9j0i418rcskih7p10u@4ax.com> <t5jobd$occ$1@dont-email.me> <3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com> <XnsAE965E6FF7943taustingmail@85.12.62.245> <bsiv7ht814i0pjevk4f6u1ocsr9l1rsdq6@4ax.com> <XnsAE9781551DD8Btaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232> <a7ec5245-47f6-41eb-8e6c-03941bf2a9fcn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Sun, 15 May 2022 03:20 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>
>> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise to
>> power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an instruction
>> manual.
>
>I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has recently
>struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...
>
>first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten Germans,
>
>and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,
>
>and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and then
>goes on for more, and more...
>
>is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.
>
>> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>
>Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
>hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
>Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.

Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine them to
be.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<3ds08htugqagalf04ep374dko0ej6tabge@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Message-ID: <3ds08htugqagalf04ep374dko0ej6tabge@4ax.com>
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 by: J. Clarke - Sun, 15 May 2022 03:22 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 12:32:14 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>
>You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>vocalize, but only humans have *language*.

That is not clear. Dolphins communicate with each other in some
encoding that we do not understand. That we do not understand it does
not mean that it doesn't exist.

>Although our
>hopes were once raised in respect of chimps, and even
>gorillas, involving sign language rather than vocalizations.
>
>John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE97D37194218taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <XnsAE946B9B697A3taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <4ocq7htaa6pmopea9j0i418rcskih7p10u@4ax.com> <t5jobd$occ$1@dont-email.me> <3kus7h93mnr62ef6gesga2jafccbicliqt@4ax.com> <XnsAE965E6FF7943taustingmail@85.12.62.245> <bsiv7ht814i0pjevk4f6u1ocsr9l1rsdq6@4ax.com> <XnsAE9781551DD8Btaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232> <a7ec5245-47f6-41eb-8e6c-03941bf2a9fcn@googlegroups.com> <fas08htqo2rqqdf36s65snh64520jtti52@4ax.com>
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Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 03:47:12 GMT
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 03:47 UTC

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:fas08htqo2rqqdf36s65snh64520jtti52@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
>>wrote:
>>
>>> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise
>>> to power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an
>>> instruction manual.
>>
>>I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has
>>recently struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...
>>
>>first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten
>>Germans,
>>
>>and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,
>>
>>and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and
>>then goes on for more, and more...
>>
>>is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.
>>
>>> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>>
>>Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>>have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's
>>confirmation hearing, and also for various reasons at various
>>times during Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>
> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine
> them to be.
>
His fantasies are all he has, or ever will have. Can you imagine an
actual woman ever letting him near her?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<t5pujc$d9h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 23:12:27 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Sun, 15 May 2022 04:12 UTC

On 5/14/2022 10:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>
>>> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise to
>>> power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an instruction
>>> manual.
>>
>> I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has recently
>> struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...
>>
>> first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten Germans,
>>
>> and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,
>>
>> and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and then
>> goes on for more, and more...
>>
>> is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.
>>
>>> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>>
>> Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>> have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
>> hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
>> Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>
> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine them to
> be.

I have been married to a woman for over 40 years. My conclusion is that
they are a different species of humans than men. Any man who says he
knows what they are going to do is delusional.

Lynn

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: J. Clarke - Sun, 15 May 2022 04:38 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 23:12:27 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/14/2022 10:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is the left that is literally using the history of the rise to
>>>> power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as an instruction
>>>> manual.
>>>
>>> I cannot really argue that claim, but the only thing that has recently
>>> struck me as resembling Hitler's career is where...
>>>
>>> first Hitler says he is only trying to protect the Sudeten Germans,
>>>
>>> and then he gobbles up all of Czechoslovakia,
>>>
>>> and he talks about his 'last territorial demand' in Europe, and then
>>> goes on for more, and more...
>>>
>>> is Putin in Georgia and the Ukraine.
>>>
>>>> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>>>
>>> Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>>> have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
>>> hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
>>> Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>>
>> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine them to
>> be.
>
>I have been married to a woman for over 40 years. My conclusion is that
>they are a different species of humans than men. Any man who says he
>knows what they are going to do is delusional.

I remember a "Confucius Say":
"Show me a man who understands women, I show you a man who has a big
fat surprise coming."

I understand Campbell used to challenge his authors to come up with
aliens who thought as well as a man, but not like man. I am told that
at least one of his authors came up with a woman.

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 15 May 2022 05:24 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:20:15 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:

> >> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
> >
> >Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
> >have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
> >hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
> >Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>
> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine them to
> be.

This does not involve a pretense of completely understanding women.

Simply the assumption that women share with men one nearly
universal characteristic of organic life - an interest in promoting
conditions consistent with their own survival.

Of course, other examples could be cited to show that this system
does not work well even with men; the failure to take effective
action on climate change has been so cited.

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:18 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:22:47 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>I believe the usual reasoning around here is that it is taking the Lord's
>>name in vain or if not that you should not be praying for damnation in
>>general.
>
>Both of which are much more defensible, but that's not what his
>"pastor" told him.

My experience with pastors - and I've known several - is that like any
other field of human endeavor they range from the sublime to the truly
awful and I'm chiefly surprised anybody's surprised on that point.

The one who did my wife's service I'd rank as a modern day saint and
quite a few people I know think likewise. Then there's the other
sort....

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:23 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests that
>the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a victory lap is
>because they believe they can win in November if the issue is the
>Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade they may lose a lot of
>suburban women's votes. Although I suppose that will depend on how
>quickly the various single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out
>their single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.

Not to mention that they know darned well that they won the 2016
election in large part by over-confidence by the other candidate. And
would prefer not to do likewise.....

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 15 May 2022 08:20 UTC

On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 20:32:16 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
> vocalize, but only humans have *language*. Although our
> hopes were once raised in respect of chimps, and even
> gorillas, involving sign language rather than vocalizations.

Parrots can use speech meaningfully. Human exceptionalism
has retreated to elevating the elaborateness of human grammar.
And mainly in English, I suppose.

Indeed, I think there's a word that I would have liked to use
instead of "elevate", but I don't remember it at the moment.
It probably will come to me very soon. Or perhaps to you.
Ah... it may have been "exalt".

I bet that an elephant would have remembered that. :-)

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:37:38 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:37 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:20:15 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>
>> >> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>> >
>> >Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>> >have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation
>> >hearing, and also for various reasons at various times during
>> >Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too naive.
>>
>> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine them to
>> be.
>
>This does not involve a pretense of completely understanding women.
>
>Simply the assumption that women share with men one nearly
>universal characteristic of organic life - an interest in promoting
>conditions consistent with their own survival.

Well, there's your problem -- making an ass out of yourself.

Female mammals with offspring tend to act to preserve their
/offspring's/ survival.

Some overseas charities learned long ago that
-- if you give the husband the money, he will spend it drinking with
his friends
-- if you give the wife the money, she will spend it on the kids first
and then herself and her husband
note that "the money" is often a grant to start a small business with.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:40:36 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:40 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:23:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests that
>>the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a victory lap is
>>because they believe they can win in November if the issue is the
>>Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade they may lose a lot of
>>suburban women's votes. Although I suppose that will depend on how
>>quickly the various single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out
>>their single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.
>
>Not to mention that they know darned well that they won the 2016
>election in large part by over-confidence by the other candidate. And
>would prefer not to do likewise.....

I should acknowledge here that, much as I would prefer a different
outcome, the usual result of a mid-term election in a President's
first term is, indeed, for the other side to take control of Congress.

Up to 40 years ago, this was arguably a good thing, as it forced
middle-of-the-road comprise measures. But then the Republicans went
all ideological on us, and decided to "negotiate" like North Korea
does: get what they can and take the rest if possible.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:42:15 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:42 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47:20 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>
>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.
>
>Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.
>
>Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to describe humans
>to other crows. Which means that if you piss off a crow (they're
>quite vindictive), it will describe you to all the other crows for
>miles around, and *every* crow will hate you, even the first time
>they see you. And will pass it on to their offspring, so every crown
>in the area will hate you long after the one you pissed off is dead.

Having made that mistake in the past, I can confirm that it certainly
/seems/ that way.

And, around here at least, they are /protected/, so can't even defend
yourself effectively.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:43 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:20:57 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 20:32:16 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>
>> > Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*. Although our
>> hopes were once raised in respect of chimps, and even
>> gorillas, involving sign language rather than vocalizations.
>
>Parrots can use speech meaningfully. Human exceptionalism
>has retreated to elevating the elaborateness of human grammar.
>And mainly in English, I suppose.
>
>Indeed, I think there's a word that I would have liked to use
>instead of "elevate", but I don't remember it at the moment.
>It probably will come to me very soon. Or perhaps to you.
>Ah... it may have been "exalt".
>
>I bet that an elephant would have remembered that. :-)

It is truly amazing, over the last 50-100 years or so, how many
"distinctively human" activities have turned out (when suitably
defined) to be anything but.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:48 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 12:02:54 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 15/05/22 04:08, Paul S Person wrote:
>snippage and editing
>>
>> Aristotle recognized three types of soul, one for plants, one for
>> animals, and one for humans. The plant souls were concerned with
>> nutrition.
>.
>
>He didn't know much about plants then, did he?
>
>
>The animal souls were [also] concerned with movement,.
>
>.
>He didn't know much about animals then, did he?
>.
>
>The human souls were [also] concerned with reason.
>
>He didn't know much about humans then, did he?
>
>(Aristotle, Aristotle, such a bugger for the bottle?)

I seem to be missing a point here.

Aristotle may seem to be simplistic here, but plants /do/ grow,
animals /do/ move, and humans /do/ reason.

It's not like he claimed the soul could, say, transport itself
instantaneously to Mars or something unlikely like that.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:50 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
<Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>> >
>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to a
>>>> >post about when personhood begins.
>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is a
>>>> criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>>> --
>>>
>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>>constitutional lines.
>>>
>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>>
>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a person
>> begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as well.
>>
>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web and
>> found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>> birth certificate.
>>
>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>
>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
>FINAL.pdf
>>
>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from Judaism
>> so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian viewpoint would
>> be much the same as given here.
>>
>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject captial
>> punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not pro-life.
>> Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any of its
>> appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that even the
>> idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>
>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
>Being born to the wrong person?

Again, this is not the point.

The point is the legal definition of "human being".

And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.

Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:52 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 12:29:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:58:56 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
>> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>> birth certificate.
>
>However, Canada's definition of birth does _not_ require the baby to
>have taken its first breath.

Canada grants birth certificates to stillborns and/or miscarriages?

>But the definition of birth is about as relevant to the abortion debate
>as the definition of weaning.

You wanted to know when personality came into existence. The answer
is: no sooner than a human being does. And that is determined by law.

And no amount of handwavium will change this.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:08 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:d60e4f48-c70e-4261-aa03-1ec9234125e9n@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:20:15 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
>> >Jibini wrote:
>
>> >> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>> >
>> >Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion would
>> >have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's
>> >confirmation hearing, and also for various reasons at various
>> >times during Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too
>> >naive.
>>
>> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine
>> them to be.
>
> This does not involve a pretense of completely understanding
> women.
>
> Simply the assumption that women share with men one nearly
> universal characteristic of organic life - an interest in
> promoting conditions consistent with their own survival.

So, in your diseased fantasy world, all Republicans are hell-bent
on murdering all women? That *must* be your belief, based on what
you've said.

That, or you're just a fucking moron who has no idea what you're
jibbering about.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:09 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:va728hhfqpdhfdkircb60gc9e8csrvuc3p@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 14 May 2022 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:20:15 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> >On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:42:57 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
>>> >Jibini wrote:
>>
>>> >> Half of Republicans are women, after all.
>>> >
>>> >Oh, _are_ they? I would have thought that the proportion
>>> >would have declined at least a trifle after Brett Kavanaugh's
>>> >confirmation hearing, and also for various reasons at various
>>> >times during Trump's term of office. But perhaps I am too
>>> >naive.
>>>
>>> Yes, you are. Women are not the simple creatures you imagine
>>> them to be.
>>
>>This does not involve a pretense of completely understanding
>>women.
>>
>>Simply the assumption that women share with men one nearly
>>universal characteristic of organic life - an interest in
>>promoting conditions consistent with their own survival.
>
> Well, there's your problem -- making an ass out of yourself.

Making as ass out of himself? No, he's *always* been an ass.
>
> Female mammals with offspring tend to act to preserve their
> /offspring's/ survival.

When evolution conflicts with survivial instinct, in the long run,
evolution *alwyas* wins.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE98722FA9D0Ctaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:13 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:3p728h9vpi02lht0qeikddnh6amn1t08j8@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47:20 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>>
>>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.
>>
>>Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.
>>
>>Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to describe
>>humans to other crows. Which means that if you piss off a crow
>>(they're quite vindictive), it will describe you to all the
>>other crows for miles around, and *every* crow will hate you,
>>even the first time they see you. And will pass it on to their
>>offspring, so every crown in the area will hate you long after
>>the one you pissed off is dead.
>
> Having made that mistake in the past, I can confirm that it
> certainly /seems/ that way.

There has been peer reviewed research. Some varities will also not
only *use* tools to dig food out of small places, they will
*manufacture* tools - out of artificial materials (wire).

Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that you have a history of
tormenting small animals.
>
> And, around here at least, they are /protected/, so can't even
> defend yourself effectively.

Which says more about the intelligence of people than it does about
crows.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:16 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:0j728hphnknb04d76k5lh16hhj30c2cqtf@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:23:23 -0700, The Horny Goat
> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:39:56 -0700, Paul S Person
>><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>And the results remain to be seen as well. An article suggests
>>>that the reason the Republicans in Congress aren't taking a
>>>victory lap is because they believe they can win in November if
>>>the issue is the Economy, but it if it overturning Roe v Wade
>>>they may lose a lot of suburban women's votes. Although I
>>>suppose that will depend on how quickly the various
>>>single-issue (so far) repressive States roll out their
>>>single-issue (so far) totalitarian regimes.
>>
>>Not to mention that they know darned well that they won the 2016
>>election in large part by over-confidence by the other
>>candidate. And would prefer not to do likewise.....
>
> I should acknowledge here that, much as I would prefer a
> different outcome, the usual result of a mid-term election in a
> President's first term is, indeed, for the other side to take
> control of Congress.
>
> Up to 40 years ago, this was arguably a good thing, as it forced
> middle-of-the-road comprise measures. But then the Republicans
> went all ideological on us,

In response to the Democrats going all fascist on us

> and decided to "negotiate" like
> North Korea does: get what they can and take the rest if
> possible.

Like Obama's idea of "bipartisan cooperation" being for the
Republicans to sit down, shut up and do as they're told?

The left is *far* more dangerously extreme than the right these
days. You refuse to see it because you believe you won't be among
those sent to reeducation camps at the first opportunity.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <afa9e72f-298a-4d64-84e3-e39d5a8b3d84n@googlegroups.com> <7348939b-8c29-4a31-868d-cc5e7a9da80dn@googlegroups.com> <6fd72efb-8d6e-4642-8e04-63d45a57f354n@googlegroups.com> <9e883c87-c15b-451a-9497-c09adc697dfbn@googlegroups.com> <bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com> <84b40ac4-0672-4b9f-bfee-44e24dd4bcabn@googlegroups.com> <lr728h17iht5rb5cnskbsc827pme41q3v4@4ax.com>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:20 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:lr728h17iht5rb5cnskbsc827pme41q3v4@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:20:57 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 20:32:16 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*. Although our
>>> hopes were once raised in respect of chimps, and even
>>> gorillas, involving sign language rather than vocalizations.
>>
>>Parrots can use speech meaningfully. Human exceptionalism
>>has retreated to elevating the elaborateness of human grammar.
>>And mainly in English, I suppose.
>>
>>Indeed, I think there's a word that I would have liked to use
>>instead of "elevate", but I don't remember it at the moment.
>>It probably will come to me very soon. Or perhaps to you.
>>Ah... it may have been "exalt".
>>
>>I bet that an elephant would have remembered that. :-)
>
> It is truly amazing, over the last 50-100 years or so, how many
> "distinctively human" activities have turned out (when suitably
> defined) to be anything but.

I have noted the same thing. I can't think of a single trait that
is uniquely human. There are many that we do *better* than any
other species, but the only uniqueness we have is the combination
of *all* of them.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <e4e8173c-5d40-48e8-b88c-b8fc534e7cfcn@googlegroups.com> <7ce57046-ad10-4899-bf70-c6afb2d55a1an@googlegroups.com> <h23l7hl7de851bq7taoc3prbp9ijfk6cse@4ax.com> <6b1ba310-961a-41cc-a57e-ad9f2a69fad8n@googlegroups.com> <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <afa9e72f-298a-4d64-84e3-e39d5a8b3d84n@googlegroups.com> <sojv7hpp3lbga3vht8n9ljvu2nohf6ktku@4ax.com> <t5os0p$map$1@dont-email.me> <98828hdenq4jqstabbchjgrhpp77h0td7o@4ax.com>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:21 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:98828hdenq4jqstabbchjgrhpp77h0td7o@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
>>> <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>>>>> >Person wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>>> >
>>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were
>>>>> >replying to a post about when personhood begins.
>>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the
>>>>> Breath of Life, causing it to breath independently of the
>>>>> mother. As noted, providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent,
>>>>> this is a criterion based on religion. And not just
>>>>> Christianity or even Judaism. It was probably pretty
>>>>> universal, and may still be. --
>>>>
>>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
>>>>religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when
>>>>you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology you have
>>>>colored outside the constitutional lines.
>>>>
>>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea
>>>>that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some
>>>>sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard
>>>>of any theory of souls growing and developing the way the
>>>>human body and mind do.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point,
>>> merely pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer
>>> to when a person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional
>>> Christian answer as well.
>>>
>>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on
>>> the web and found out that Canada also requires a live birth
>>> (including, say, C-sections) before the existence of a human
>>> being is recognized with a birth certificate.
>>>
>>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on
>>>>the personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abo
>>>>rtion-
>>FINAL.pdf
>>>
>>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed
>>> from Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional
>>> Christian viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
>>>
>>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also
>>> reject captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion
>>> but not pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely
>>> refuses to use any of its appeals involving capital
>>> punishment, it must be concluded that even the idiotic five
>>> are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>>
>>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death
>>penalty? Being born to the wrong person?
>
> Again, this is not the point.
>
> The point is the legal definition of "human being".
>
> And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
>
> Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.

When one side of an argument has to resort to instilling hysteria
to convince you, it's very likely because that's all they have.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<t5rmf2$f5o$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:05:54 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:05 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:50:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>>> >
>>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to
>>>>> >a post about when personhood begins.
>>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is
>>>>> a criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>>>constitutional lines.
>>>>
>>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
>>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a
>>> person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
>>> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>>> birth certificate.
>>>
>>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
>>FINAL.pdf
>>>
>>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from
>>> Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian
>>> viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
>>>
>>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject
>>> captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not
>>> pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any
>>> of its appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that
>>> even the idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>>
>>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
>>Being born to the wrong person?
>
> Again, this is not the point.
>
> The point is the legal definition of "human being".
>
> And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
>
> Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.

I was replying to the only anti-capital punishment people are pro-life
statement,pointing out they are not the same thing.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Titus G - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:47 UTC

On 16/05/22 03:48, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 12:02:54 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/22 04:08, Paul S Person wrote:
>> snippage and editing
>>>
>>> Aristotle recognized three types of soul, one for plants, one for
>>> animals, and one for humans. The plant souls were concerned with
>>> nutrition.
>> .
>>
>> He didn't know much about plants then, did he?
>>
>>
>> The animal souls were [also] concerned with movement,.
>>
>> .
>> He didn't know much about animals then, did he?
>> .
>>
>> The human souls were [also] concerned with reason.
>>
>> He didn't know much about humans then, did he?
>>
>> (Aristotle, Aristotle, such a bugger for the bottle?)
>
> I seem to be missing a point here.

From the same thread:
Paul Person wrote:
>
> It is truly amazing, over the last 50-100 years or so, how many
> "distinctively human" activities have turned out (when suitably
> defined) to be anything but.

Jibini replied:
I have noted the same thing. I can't think of a single trait that
is uniquely human. There are many that we do *better* than any
other species, but the only uniqueness we have is the combination
of *all* of them.

>
> Aristotle may seem to be simplistic here, but plants /do/ grow,
> animals /do/ move, and humans /do/ reason.

Reason? Plants and Animals don't do religion.

> It's not like he claimed the soul could, say, transport itself
> instantaneously to Mars or something unlikely like that.

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