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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Thomas Koenig
+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dorothy J Heydt
||+- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
||`- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dorothy J Heydt
|+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
||`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)pete...@gmail.com
|| `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
|`- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
| `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Tony Nance
|  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Tony Nance
|  | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|  |  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)pete...@gmail.com
|  |  |  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |  |   +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)pete...@gmail.com
|  |  |   |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
|  |  |   | +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)J. Clarke
|  |  |   |  |+- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Wolffan
|  |  |   |  |+- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   |  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |  | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |  |  `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Torbjorn Lindgren
|  |  |   |   `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Joe Pfeiffer
|  |  |   |    |+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   |    || `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)William Hyde
|  |  |   |    ||  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|  |  |   |    ||  | |+* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | ||`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | || `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  | | +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|  |  |   |    ||  | | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | |  +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | |  +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)J. Clarke
|  |  |   |    ||  | |  +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|  |  |   |    ||  | |  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  | |   `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | |    `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | |     `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | |      `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | |       `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | |        `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|  |  |   |    ||  | |         `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  |  +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|  |  |   |    ||  |  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   |    ||  |  |`- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Quadibloc
|  |  |   |    ||  |  `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Kevrob
|  |  |   |    ||  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|  |  |   |    ||  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  | +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|  |  |   |    ||  | |+- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)William Hyde
|  |  |   |    ||  | |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  | | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Woodward
|  |  |   |    ||  | |  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  |   |    ||  | |   +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Ninapenda Jibini
|  |  |   |    ||  | |   `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Woodward
|  |  |   |    ||  | |    `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |  |   |    ||  | `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)William Hyde
|  |  |   |    ||  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    ||  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Woodward
|  |  |   |    ||  | `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)J. Clarke
|  |  |   |    ||  `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  |   |    |`- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |  |   |    `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Woodward
|  |  |   +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Kevrob
|  |  |   `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Andrew McDowell
|  |  +* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Tony Nance
|  |  |`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dimensional Traveler
|  |  | `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Tony Nance
|  |  |  `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|  |  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
|  |   `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|  |    `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
|  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
|   +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Lynn McGuire
|   +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Tony Nance
|   `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Dorothy J Heydt
|    +- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Paul S Person
|    `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)The Horny Goat
|     `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|      `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Kevrob
|       `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
+- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Robert Carnegie
`* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)pete...@gmail.com
 `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
  `* Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Leif Roar Moldskred
   `- Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)Kevrob

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Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<XnsAE9475668C0D4taustingmail@85.12.62.232>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
References: <b6ca70a9-7896-478e-a905-c14b693821ddn@googlegroups.com> <mst77h9o2hk4qjpugulnaf0e0j06j8j1dn@4ax.com> <2rr87hlec945kscjobtcgc5aa54l4587n0@4ax.com> <t5b9nk$mqq$1@dont-email.me> <5vki7h9mcs6ull8m2ir4r0aphijrmvi2q5@4ax.com> <1bilqek2ca.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net> <qvmj7hh108u5m51gihfrakpdsto700djjr@4ax.com> <1b768f66-738d-40d5-9089-dcf3314f76f8n@googlegroups.com> <t5eg1p$3ab$2@dont-email.me> <XnsAE93A51D08232taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <68un7hdlv618cp5gollhh8ktiddslk0hal@4ax.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:32 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:68un7hdlv618cp5gollhh8ktiddslk0hal@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:13:52 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Or if the thirteen colonies has seized Canada also at the
>>> conclusion of the Revolutionary War. There were many people
>>> in favor of it.
>>>
>>And not all of them were in the US side.
>
> One of the great fears of the British governor in 1812 was
> whether the former Americans (NOT the 'United Empire Loyalists')
> who had moved to southern Ontario from the Northern US after the
> Revolution was whether these men would be loyal to the US or
> Canada. (Britain had been selling land to farmers in what is now
> southern Ontario for about 1/3 the price of land in western NY
> and PA)
>
> Most of them stayed loyal to the Canadian / British side because
> they valued their lands more than their former country.
>
> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
> any other factor.

I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
*all* of them).

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<XnsAE9475A42ADD2taustingmail@85.12.62.232>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
References: <mst77h9o2hk4qjpugulnaf0e0j06j8j1dn@4ax.com> <2rr87hlec945kscjobtcgc5aa54l4587n0@4ax.com> <t5b9nk$mqq$1@dont-email.me> <5vki7h9mcs6ull8m2ir4r0aphijrmvi2q5@4ax.com> <1bilqek2ca.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net> <qvmj7hh108u5m51gihfrakpdsto700djjr@4ax.com> <1b768f66-738d-40d5-9089-dcf3314f76f8n@googlegroups.com> <t5eg1p$3ab$2@dont-email.me> <843bb1a9-53b2-480d-b53c-2a1cda1cd353n@googlegroups.com> <t5eot3$ouv$1@dont-email.me> <XnsAE93A539F9549taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <tkun7hhhkr252gq67squefm7njobtq1oc1@4ax.com>
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:33 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:tkun7hhhkr252gq67squefm7njobtq1oc1@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.
>>> His premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth
>>> decimated and in slavery.
>>>
>>Don't all his books end that way?
>
> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of
> those than about Draka
>
I'll take your word for it. The only stuff I've read with his name on
the cover is the Falkenberg's Legion stuff he wrote with Pournelle.

Does he still advocate that all computers should, by law, have
spyware installed that he, persaonlly, can use to scan for copyright
violations, followed by imprisonment so that he, persoanally, can
torture the violators to death?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<je2fg1Ff53iU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: 11 May 2022 19:01:21 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:01 UTC

In article <khtn7hpecmqn0t60bqijmaoi0kmbjnrd1e@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 10 May 2022 17:27:47 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books by S. M.
>>Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His premise, not
>>mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and in slavery.
>
>Hmmm. Didn't know Stirling had a Canadian connection.
>
>He certainly made an opus out of work out of a simple play on words
>(on "Marching Through Georgia").
>
>As a chess player I certainly knew THAT Georgia (it did produce 2
>world champions which is amazing for such a small republic / country)
>but never connected General Sherman with THAT Georgia!
>
>And DID enjoy the sections on how the Domination of the Draka came to
>be though their conquest of Africa, Arabia and into Europe seems more
>like a Civ 6 game than anything that might have happened.
>
>On a related subject, I must admit I REALLY loved The Guns of the
>South which I had thought for ages was Stirling but in fact is
>Turtledove - particularly when I had that nagging feeling all through
>the book I knew who AWB - "America Will Break" was and turned out to
>be right. (Sorry - no spoilers here and telling who AWB was would be a
>massive spoiler)

I liked _Guns Of The South_. In retrospect it probably led Turtledove to
a well he drew from a few times too many.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5h1fv$ddi$2@dont-email.me>

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:06 UTC

On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His
>>> premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>> in slavery.
>>>
>> Don't all his books end that way?
>
> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
> than about Draka

Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
the Fire" series ?

Lynn

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5h3h9$u41$2@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:41:31 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:41 UTC

On 5/11/2022 12:06 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.  His
>>>> premise, not mine.  Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>> in slavery.
>>>>
>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>
>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>> than about Draka
>
> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
> the Fire" series ?
>
Got tied in to them.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
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 by: J. Clarke - Wed, 11 May 2022 21:20 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His
>>>> premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>> in slavery.
>>>>
>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>
>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>> than about Draka
>
>Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>the Fire" series ?

In a sense. "Dies the Fire" is the flip side.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: 11 May 2022 21:44:43 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Wed, 11 May 2022 21:44 UTC

In article <t5h1fv$ddi$2@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His
>>>> premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>> in slavery.
>>>>
>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>
>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>> than about Draka
>
>Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>the Fire" series ?
>
>Lynn
>

I've never read the DTF series, but my understanding is that they both
started with the Nantucket timeslip event. Nantucket went to the past,
but standard physics still applied there, and in the present the event
changed physical law for the worse going forward.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:38 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:32:32 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote in
> news:68un7hdlv618cp5go...@4ax.com:
> > On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:13:52 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> > Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Or if the thirteen colonies has seized Canada also at the
> >>> conclusion of the Revolutionary War. There were many people
> >>> in favor of it.
> >>>
> >>And not all of them were in the US side.
> >
> > One of the great fears of the British governor in 1812 was
> > whether the former Americans (NOT the 'United Empire Loyalists')
> > who had moved to southern Ontario from the Northern US after the
> > Revolution was whether these men would be loyal to the US or
> > Canada. (Britain had been selling land to farmers in what is now
> > southern Ontario for about 1/3 the price of land in western NY
> > and PA)
> >
> > Most of them stayed loyal to the Canadian / British side because
> > they valued their lands more than their former country.
> >
> > So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
> > Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
> > like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
> > any other factor.
> I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
> minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
> wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
> *all* of them).

Of course it wouldn't be reasonable to expect the percentage of pro/anti UK types to undergo a step function at the various anglophone Colonial borders. There were plenty of loyalists in the south, disloyalists in the north. As Nelson famously said, the richer classes in the West Indies were American sympathizers. It's just hard to rebel against a naval power when you live on a small island.

The big opportunity came not from the northern disaffected, but from the Quebecois, for whom the British were traditional enemies and current occupiers. But the southern invaders, with their strident anti-catholic and anti-French attitudes managed to alienate the Quebecois to such a degree that they put up excellent resistance even as late as 1812 - more than people around here (Ontario) can say.

Perhaps an army of Marylanders would have done the trick (assuming that Maryland was still Catholic or Catholic-tolerant by this time).

William Hyde

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 13 May 2022 01:23 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:57:10 AM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:
> (Sorry - no spoilers here and telling who AWB was would be a
> massive spoiler)

Oh? Their flag was described accurately at a _very_ early point
in the book, and so I thought that particular "spoiler" was very
clearly telegraphed well in advance to any present-day readers
of the book (as opposed to people reading it in 1864).

John Savard

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 13 May 2022 01:27 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 7:23:26 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:57:10 AM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:

> > (Sorry - no spoilers here and telling who AWB was would be a
> > massive spoiler)

> Oh? Their flag was described accurately at a _very_ early point
> in the book, and so I thought that particular "spoiler" was very
> clearly telegraphed well in advance to any present-day readers
> of the book (as opposed to people reading it in 1864).

Specifically, page 71 of the Del Rey paperback edition.

John Savard

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Fri, 13 May 2022 21:18 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:03:52 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:13:52 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Or if the thirteen colonies has seized Canada also at the
> >> conclusion of the Revolutionary War. There were many people in
> >> favor of it.
> >>
> >And not all of them were in the US side.
> One of the great fears of the British governor in 1812 was whether the
> former Americans (NOT the 'United Empire Loyalists') who had moved to
> southern Ontario from the Northern US after the Revolution was whether
> these men would be loyal to the US or Canada. (Britain had been
> selling land to farmers in what is now southern Ontario for about 1/3
> the price of land in western NY and PA)
>
> Most of them stayed loyal to the Canadian / British side because they
> valued their lands more than their former country.
>
> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower Canada who
> would have preferred US union they weren't anything like a majority
> and were motivated more by land ownership than any other factor.

Most of the recent American settlers would have been content enough to
be again a part of the US, but they weren't going to lift a finger to advance
the possibility.

>
> And with the greatest of respect the United States was simply not in
> any condition to fight a second war (this time for Canada) immediately
> after 1783. I know they dreamt of it in 1812 but to annex land you
> first have to defeat whoever currently owns it and they never came
> close to doing so in 1812-13 notwithsanding the best efforts of my
> 7xgreat-grandfather and his NY state militia friends to do so.

Actually the NY militia was not necessarily our enemy. At least one British victory
was scored in sight of the NY militia who wouldn't cross the border to join in
the fun. In much of the north the war wasn't popular at all, and got less so
when the blockade began to tell.

William Hyde

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Message-ID: <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:30 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
>> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
>> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
>> any other factor.
>
>I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
>minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
>wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
>*all* of them).
>
Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where opinion was
unanimous on one side or another other than that both sides tend to
agree the Battle of New Orleans was a grievous waste of life since it
was fought AFTER the peace but before both sides had gotten word of
it.

Militarily the war of 1812 was a US loss - but New Orleans definitely
soothed American pain.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<b2b18hda2iuvovd4oqtead8fm4qf64lovn@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Message-ID: <b2b18hda2iuvovd4oqtead8fm4qf64lovn@4ax.com>
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Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 00:32:14 -0700
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:32 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His
>>>> premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>> in slavery.
>>>>
>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>
>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>> than about Draka
>
>Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>the Fire" series ?

Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
term anyhow) between the two.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5r3uj$45v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:49:59 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 15 May 2022 14:49 UTC

On 5/15/2022 12:32 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His
>>>>> premise, not mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>>> in slavery.
>>>>>
>>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>>
>>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>>> than about Draka
>>
>> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>> the Fire" series ?
>
> Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
> term anyhow) between the two.

Actually they are connected. In one of the 'Dies the Fire' books a main
character visits Nantucket Island. The reader finds out that their
Nantucket is the far past Nantucket that was switched for the modern
Nantucket in the first "ISOT" book. The same powers that caused The
Change also sent Nantucket into the past at the same time.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<robertaw-08BC18.09530315052022@news.individual.net>

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:53:03 -0700
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 by: Robert Woodward - Sun, 15 May 2022 16:53 UTC

In article <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
> >> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
> >> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
> >> any other factor.
> >
> >I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
> >minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
> >wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
> >*all* of them).
> >
> Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where opinion was
> unanimous on one side or another other than that both sides tend to
> agree the Battle of New Orleans was a grievous waste of life since it
> was fought AFTER the peace but before both sides had gotten word of
> it.
>

Was it? IIRC, GB was willing to claim that Napoleon's transfer of
Louisiana to the USA was invalid. If the battle took place before a date
specified in the peace treaty (and IIRC which I might not, it did), then
Great Britain could transfer New Orleans and environs back to Spain
(however, I really doubt that Spain could hold what was then Missouri
territory and even Louisiana itself will be a problem).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5rgpv$4ai$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:29:19 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:29 UTC

On 5/15/2022 9:49 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 12:32 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.  His
>>>>>> premise, not mine.  Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>>>> in slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>>>
>>>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>>>> than about Draka
>>>
>>> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>>> the Fire" series ?
>>
>> Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
>> term anyhow) between the two.
>
> Actually they are connected.  In one of the 'Dies the Fire' books a main
> character visits Nantucket Island.  The reader finds out that their
> Nantucket is the far past Nantucket that was switched for the modern
> Nantucket in the first "ISOT" book.  The same powers that caused The
> Change also sent Nantucket into the past at the same time.

Yup, that is my impression. In the school of equal and opposite
effects, the effect of removing electric fire from the world caused
Nantucket Island to be moved 3,000 years in the past.

Lynn

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5rs7j$phu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:44:24 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:44 UTC

On 5/15/2022 11:29 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 9:49 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 12:32 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.  His
>>>>>>> premise, not mine.  Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>>>>> in slavery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>>>>
>>>>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>>>>> than about Draka
>>>>
>>>> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>>>> the Fire" series ?
>>>
>>> Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
>>> term anyhow) between the two.
>>
>> Actually they are connected.  In one of the 'Dies the Fire' books a
>> main character visits Nantucket Island.  The reader finds out that
>> their Nantucket is the far past Nantucket that was switched for the
>> modern Nantucket in the first "ISOT" book.  The same powers that
>> caused The Change also sent Nantucket into the past at the same time.
>
> Yup, that is my impression.  In the school of equal and opposite
> effects, the effect of removing electric fire from the world caused
> Nantucket Island to be moved 3,000 years in the past.
>
I got the impression that The Powers were trying two methods of getting
what they wanted. So both were intended results rather than one being a
side-effect of the other.

But then I also have some serious issues with who The Powers are and
what they are trying to do so....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5rsa6$phu$2@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:45:48 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:45 UTC

On 5/15/2022 9:53 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>,
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
>>>> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
>>>> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
>>>> any other factor.
>>>
>>> I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
>>> minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
>>> wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
>>> *all* of them).
>>>
>> Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where opinion was
>> unanimous on one side or another other than that both sides tend to
>> agree the Battle of New Orleans was a grievous waste of life since it
>> was fought AFTER the peace but before both sides had gotten word of
>> it.
>>
>
> Was it? IIRC, GB was willing to claim that Napoleon's transfer of
> Louisiana to the USA was invalid. If the battle took place before a date
> specified in the peace treaty (and IIRC which I might not, it did), then
> Great Britain could transfer New Orleans and environs back to Spain
> (however, I really doubt that Spain could hold what was then Missouri
> territory and even Louisiana itself will be a problem).
>
The Battle of New Orleans took place well after the peace treaty was signed.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<XnsAE98E3D10EFD2taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <mst77h9o2hk4qjpugulnaf0e0j06j8j1dn@4ax.com> <2rr87hlec945kscjobtcgc5aa54l4587n0@4ax.com> <t5b9nk$mqq$1@dont-email.me> <5vki7h9mcs6ull8m2ir4r0aphijrmvi2q5@4ax.com> <1bilqek2ca.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net> <qvmj7hh108u5m51gihfrakpdsto700djjr@4ax.com> <1b768f66-738d-40d5-9089-dcf3314f76f8n@googlegroups.com> <t5eg1p$3ab$2@dont-email.me> <XnsAE93A51D08232taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <68un7hdlv618cp5gollhh8ktiddslk0hal@4ax.com> <XnsAE9475668C0D4taustingmail@85.12.62.232> <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com> <robertaw-08BC18.09530315052022@news.individual.net> <t5rsa6$phu$2@dont-email.me>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Mon, 16 May 2022 05:23 UTC

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
news:t5rsa6$phu$2@dont-email.me:

> On 5/15/2022 9:53 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> In article <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>,
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
>>>>> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't
>>>>> anything like a majority and were motivated more by land
>>>>> ownership than any other factor.
>>>>
>>>> I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even
>>>> a large minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree
>>>> they did (or it wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing
>>>> loyal, it would have been *all* of them).
>>>>
>>> Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where
>>> opinion was unanimous on one side or another other than that
>>> both sides tend to agree the Battle of New Orleans was a
>>> grievous waste of life since it was fought AFTER the peace but
>>> before both sides had gotten word of it.
>>>
>>
>> Was it? IIRC, GB was willing to claim that Napoleon's transfer
>> of Louisiana to the USA was invalid. If the battle took place
>> before a date specified in the peace treaty (and IIRC which I
>> might not, it did), then Great Britain could transfer New
>> Orleans and environs back to Spain (however, I really doubt
>> that Spain could hold what was then Missouri territory and even
>> Louisiana itself will be a problem).
>>
> The Battle of New Orleans took place well after the peace treaty
> was signed.
>
Which is emaningless until it's also ratified. Which occured on the
same day as the beginning of the battle, making it physically
impossible, in 1815, for either side to know about it. And right
off hand, I doubt any of normal intelligence would consider a
matter of a few hours, especially in 1814 (and it couldn't have
been more than that, and the battle could actually have been
*before* the ratifying vote, it's hard to tell), to be "well
after."

The treaty itself allows either 12 or 30 days for word to be sent
(depending on precisely where New Orleans was at the time, and how
precisely it could be measures).

In short, you are spewing nonsense.

As usual.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<robertaw-047917.10084416052022@news.individual.net>

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 10:08:44 -0700
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 by: Robert Woodward - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:08 UTC

In article <t5rsa6$phu$2@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 5/15/2022 9:53 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > In article <3ta18hl5kqk8evmldkd53ols7ipuu0c4om@4ax.com>,
> > The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
> >>>> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
> >>>> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
> >>>> any other factor.
> >>>
> >>> I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
> >>> minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
> >>> wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
> >>> *all* of them).
> >>>
> >> Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where opinion was
> >> unanimous on one side or another other than that both sides tend to
> >> agree the Battle of New Orleans was a grievous waste of life since it
> >> was fought AFTER the peace but before both sides had gotten word of
> >> it.
> >>
> >
> > Was it? IIRC, GB was willing to claim that Napoleon's transfer of
> > Louisiana to the USA was invalid. If the battle took place before a date
> > specified in the peace treaty (and IIRC which I might not, it did), then
> > Great Britain could transfer New Orleans and environs back to Spain
> > (however, I really doubt that Spain could hold what was then Missouri
> > territory and even Louisiana itself will be a problem).
> >
> The Battle of New Orleans took place well after the peace treaty was signed.

The Treaty of Ghent was signed on Dec 24, 1814; the British government
ratified it on Dec 27th, but it didn't even arrive in Washington DC
until Feb 17th. The Battle of New Orleans took place on January 8th.
While the treaty provided for an exchange of captured territory (at
least between USA and British Empire), there is the question (backed by
some documentation, see
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ghent#Aftermath>) on whether
the British considered Louisiana to be a legal part of pre-1812 USA. So
there is a significant chance they wouldn't return it (they would have
eventually regretted it).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5udmc$uv8$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:54:36 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:54 UTC

On 5/15/2022 4:44 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 11:29 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 9:49 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 5/15/2022 12:32 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>>>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.  His
>>>>>>>> premise, not mine.  Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>>>>>> in slavery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of those
>>>>>> than about Draka
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the "Dies
>>>>> the Fire" series ?
>>>>
>>>> Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
>>>> term anyhow) between the two.
>>>
>>> Actually they are connected.  In one of the 'Dies the Fire' books a
>>> main character visits Nantucket Island.  The reader finds out that
>>> their Nantucket is the far past Nantucket that was switched for the
>>> modern Nantucket in the first "ISOT" book.  The same powers that
>>> caused The Change also sent Nantucket into the past at the same time.
>>
>> Yup, that is my impression.  In the school of equal and opposite
>> effects, the effect of removing electric fire from the world caused
>> Nantucket Island to be moved 3,000 years in the past.
>>
> I got the impression that The Powers were trying two methods of getting
> what they wanted.  So both were intended results rather than one being a
> side-effect of the other.
>
> But then I also have some serious issues with who The Powers are and
> what they are trying to do so....

I need to reread the Dies The Fire series because I do not remember who
the Powers are and why they are messing with humanity. I reread the
first four books last year. I seem to recall that Rudy makes it to
Nantucket around book #8 or #10 after a long tedious journey.

Lynn

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<e1060b80-0348-4715-8f9b-0a3952ffc12en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:08 UTC

On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 18:08:50 UTC+1, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <t5rsa6$phu$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > On 5/15/2022 9:53 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > In article <3ta18hl5kqk8evmld...@4ax.com>,
> > > The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:32:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> > >> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> So while I don't doubt there were people in Upper and Lower
> > >>>> Canada who would have preferred US union they weren't anything
> > >>>> like a majority and were motivated more by land ownership than
> > >>>> any other factor.
> > >>>
> > >>> I did not even remotely suggest they were a majority, or even a large
> > >>> minority. Simply that they existed, which you agree they did (or it
> > >>> wouldn't have been *most* of them styaing loyal, it would have been
> > >>> *all* of them).
> > >>>
> > >> Correct - there is very little of the War of 1812 where opinion was
> > >> unanimous on one side or another other than that both sides tend to
> > >> agree the Battle of New Orleans was a grievous waste of life since it
> > >> was fought AFTER the peace but before both sides had gotten word of
> > >> it.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Was it? IIRC, GB was willing to claim that Napoleon's transfer of
> > > Louisiana to the USA was invalid. If the battle took place before a date
> > > specified in the peace treaty (and IIRC which I might not, it did), then
> > > Great Britain could transfer New Orleans and environs back to Spain
> > > (however, I really doubt that Spain could hold what was then Missouri
> > > territory and even Louisiana itself will be a problem).
> > >
> > The Battle of New Orleans took place well after the peace treaty was signed.
> The Treaty of Ghent was signed on Dec 24, 1814; the British government
> ratified it on Dec 27th, but it didn't even arrive in Washington DC
> until Feb 17th. The Battle of New Orleans took place on January 8th.
> While the treaty provided for an exchange of captured territory (at
> least between USA and British Empire), there is the question (backed by
> some documentation, see
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ghent#Aftermath>) on whether
> the British considered Louisiana to be a legal part of pre-1812 USA. So
> there is a significant chance they wouldn't return it (they would have
> eventually regretted it).

The post is pretty bad around Christmas. I don't know
anything about this case but it is desirable to pause
fighting at an earlier point in peace negotiation.
?You can always start again if it doesn't work out.

ObSF, Joe Haldeman's _The Forever War_ comes
to mind.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5urg1$l71$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73621&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73621

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:50:18 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50 UTC

On 5/16/2022 1:54 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 4:44 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 11:29 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 5/15/2022 9:49 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 5/15/2022 12:32 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 1:04 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 16:14:32 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>>>>>> Kujisalimisha
>>>>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books
>>>>>>>>> by S. M. Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened.  His
>>>>>>>>> premise, not mine.  Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and
>>>>>>>>> in slavery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't all his books end that way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His Island in the Sea of Time books didn't and he wrote more of
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> than about Draka
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't the "Island in the Sea of Time" books transition into the
>>>>>> "Dies
>>>>>> the Fire" series ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope - different point of divergence (that's the soc.history.what-if
>>>>> term anyhow) between the two.
>>>>
>>>> Actually they are connected.  In one of the 'Dies the Fire' books a
>>>> main character visits Nantucket Island.  The reader finds out that
>>>> their Nantucket is the far past Nantucket that was switched for the
>>>> modern Nantucket in the first "ISOT" book.  The same powers that
>>>> caused The Change also sent Nantucket into the past at the same time.
>>>
>>> Yup, that is my impression.  In the school of equal and opposite
>>> effects, the effect of removing electric fire from the world caused
>>> Nantucket Island to be moved 3,000 years in the past.
>>>
>> I got the impression that The Powers were trying two methods of
>> getting what they wanted.  So both were intended results rather than
>> one being a side-effect of the other.
>>
>> But then I also have some serious issues with who The Powers are and
>> what they are trying to do so....
>
> I need to reread the Dies The Fire series because I do not remember who
> the Powers are and why they are messing with humanity.  I reread the
> first four books last year.  I seem to recall that Rudy makes it to
> Nantucket around book #8 or #10 after a long tedious journey.
>
Juvyr ba Anaghpxrg ur znxrf "pbagnpg" gubfr erfcbafvoyr sbe Gur Punatr.
"Gurl" ner gur zretrq pbafpvbhfarff bs nyy fragvrag orvatf va gur
tnynkl/(havirefr?) sebz znal ovyyvbaf bs lrnef va gur shgher. Nf orfg
nf ur pna qrgrezvar gurl sryg gurl jrera'g va fhssvpvrag rzcnguvp
pbagnpg jvgu angher, gurzfryirf be fbzrguvat fb gb nqqerff gung gurl
qrpvqrq gung uhznavgl arrqrq gb or ybj grpu sbe n srj graf be uhaqerqf
bs gubhfnaqf bs lrnef ybatre.

I almost threw the book against the wall and stopped reading the series
at that point. I think he realized that was a mistake later as he seems
to have moved away from that to "it was the Old Gods" in later books in
the series.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<t5uv8o$bh7$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73625&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73625

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 20:54:30 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:54 UTC

On 5/16/2022 7:50 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
....
>> I need to reread the Dies The Fire series because I do not remember
>> who the Powers are and why they are messing with humanity.  I reread
>> the first four books last year.  I seem to recall that Rudy makes it
>> to Nantucket around book #8 or #10 after a long tedious journey.
>>
> Juvyr ba Anaghpxrg ur znxrf "pbagnpg" gubfr erfcbafvoyr sbe Gur Punatr.
>  "Gurl" ner gur zretrq pbafpvbhfarff bs nyy fragvrag orvatf va gur
> tnynkl/(havirefr?) sebz znal ovyyvbaf bs lrnef va gur shgher.  Nf orfg
> nf ur pna qrgrezvar gurl sryg gurl jrera'g va fhssvpvrag rzcnguvp
> pbagnpg jvgu angher, gurzfryirf be fbzrguvat fb gb nqqerff gung gurl
> qrpvqrq gung uhznavgl arrqrq gb or ybj grpu sbe n srj graf be uhaqerqf
> bs gubhfnaqf bs lrnef ybatre.
>
> I almost threw the book against the wall and stopped reading the series
> at that point.  I think he realized that was a mistake later as he seems
> to have moved away from that to "it was the Old Gods" in later books in
> the series.

https://rot13.com/

Man, I don't remember that. My suspension of disbelief got rocked by
that one too. I just remember "the Old Gods".

Lynn

Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)

<fce4dfe2-ad11-4288-b886-46bd4586e35cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Scott Adams didn't think this through. (Dilbert)
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
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 by: Kevrob - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:40 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 1:57:10 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 17:27:47 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey, I just read a five book series of alternate history books by S. M.
> >Stirling, a former Canadian, where that happened. His premise, not
> >mine. Ended up with the entire Earth decimated and in slavery.
> Hmmm. Didn't know Stirling had a Canadian connection.
>
> He certainly made an opus out of work out of a simple play on words
> (on "Marching Through Georgia").
>
> As a chess player I certainly knew THAT Georgia (it did produce 2
> world champions which is amazing for such a small republic / country)
> but never connected General Sherman with THAT Georgia!
>
> And DID enjoy the sections on how the Domination of the Draka came to
> be though their conquest of Africa, Arabia and into Europe seems more
> like a Civ 6 game than anything that might have happened.
>
> On a related subject, I must admit I REALLY loved The Guns of the
> South which I had thought for ages was Stirling but in fact is
> Turtledove - particularly when I had that nagging feeling all through
> the book I knew who AWB - "America Will Break" was and turned out to
> be right. (Sorry - no spoilers here and telling who AWB was would be a
> massive spoiler)

AWB? The Average White Band!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_White_Band

I think neither the Real World nor in-story groups with
those initials would like their music.

--
Kevin R

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