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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

SubjectAuthor
* [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJames Nicoll
+* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishMichael F. Stemper
|+* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJames Nicoll
||`- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishMichael F. Stemper
|+* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJack Bohn
||`* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishMichael F. Stemper
|| `- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJack Bohn
|+* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishRobert Carnegie
||`* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blishpete...@gmail.com
|| +- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJ. Clarke
|| `* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishRobert Carnegie
||  `* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJack Bohn
||   `- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishThomas Koenig
|`* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishThe Horny Goat
| `- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishMichael F. Stemper
`* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishRobert Woodward
 +* Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishJames Nicoll
 |`- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James BlishRobert Woodward
 `- Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blishted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan

1
[tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<t5qvuu$mmv$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:41:50 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Sun, 15 May 2022 13:41 UTC

The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short

How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
as The Star Dwellers!
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael F. Stemper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:57:43 -0500
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Sun, 15 May 2022 14:57 UTC

On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>
> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> as The Star Dwellers!

I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
and how much better we do things now.

In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
didn't understand calculus!"

IIRC, Jack gave a brief infodump on how the franchise and
reproductive rights were both tied to being able to hold the
right kind of job. (Possibly this was in Mission.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 94:3-6

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:23:31 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:23 UTC

In article <t5r4df$777$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
>> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>>
>> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
>> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
>> as The Star Dwellers!
>
>I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
>month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
>RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
>the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
>and how much better we do things now.
>
>In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
>along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
>didn't understand calculus!"
>
>IIRC, Jack gave a brief infodump on how the franchise and
>reproductive rights were both tied to being able to hold the
>right kind of job. (Possibly this was in Mission.)

Or maybe it's his attempt to emulate YA SF without really understanding
it.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<robertaw-FDC887.10025015052022@news.individual.net>

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:02:50 -0700
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 by: Robert Woodward - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:02 UTC

In article <t5qvuu$mmv$1@reader1.panix.com>,
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>
> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> as The Star Dwellers!

Have you read very many Winston SF titles
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?790+2)?

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:16:20 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:16 UTC

In article <robertaw-FDC887.10025015052022@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <t5qvuu$mmv$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>>
>> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
>> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
>> as The Star Dwellers!
>
>Have you read very many Winston SF titles
>(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?790+2)?

Oh, yes.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: 15 May 2022 17:21:39 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:21 UTC

In article <robertaw-FDC887.10025015052022@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <t5qvuu$mmv$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>>
>> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
>> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
>> as The Star Dwellers!
>
>Have you read very many Winston SF titles
>(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?790+2)?
>

My feeling is that for whatever reason, the Winston line was sort of
an "also ran" effort, with some enjoyable entries.

As for _The Star Dwellers_, you have to give it credit for the "They
became bad liars?" bit.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: jack.boh...@gmail.com (Jack Bohn)
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 by: Jack Bohn - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:44 UTC

Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
> > The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
> >
> > How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> > grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> > as The Star Dwellers!
> I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
> month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
> RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
> the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
> and how much better we do things now.
>
> In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
> along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
> didn't understand calculus!"

I think it was _Mission_ I read, not knowing it was a juvenile, at that awkward age when I was able to drive but not yet understand calculus. I think two theories of juvenile fiction is that the protagonist should be either someone the readers can substitute themselves for, or to aspire to. Of course, "can aspire to" might involve a bit of what we now call the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Haertal drive for FTL? That was the drive invented for the story "Common Time". As that story is based on the author pulling one over on everybody, I tend to get suspicious when the name is mentioned. (Another story in the collection with "Time" mentioned Haertal had been surpassed by another drive, but I forget the name.) I would hesitate to conclude that "Common Time" and Heart Stars are a common Future History from that alone. Blish twice included "Remember Thor V!" among cryptic phrases from the past heard by uncomprehending characters.

--
-Jack

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 15 May 2022 22:34 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 15:57:55 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
> > The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
> >
> > How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> > grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> > as The Star Dwellers!
> I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
> month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
> RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
> the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
> and how much better we do things now.
>
> In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
> along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
> didn't understand calculus!"

This sounds like a Jim Crow law, although calculus
is how to understand such phenomena as acceleration
of the value of staying a ways behind the next car
when driving at speed. I suppose that most twentieth
century drivers had a reasonable understanding of
applied physics, and the ones who apparently didn't
were in newspaper stories about it more often.

> IIRC, Jack gave a brief infodump on how the franchise and
> reproductive rights were both tied to being able to hold the
> right kind of job. (Possibly this was in Mission.)

Of course in _Starship Troopers_ you had to
earn the franchise if you didn't want to be a
mere obedient subject, which I prefer to think
of as a thought-provoking suggestion more
than the author's utopian plan, one thought being
"this story world is messed up and people in it
don't realise."

I'll be happier if /this/ all turns out to be parody.
Like _Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers_.

IIRC Mr Nicoll doesn't review humour.

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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 by: The Horny Goat - Mon, 16 May 2022 04:13 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:57:43 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>IIRC, Jack gave a brief infodump on how the franchise and
>reproductive rights were both tied to being able to hold the
>right kind of job. (Possibly this was in Mission.)

Well that is DEFINITELY 'channelling his inner Heinlein' since
Heinlein in several novels tied the franchise to a period of
government service (not just military as Starship Troopers makes
plain)

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<t5thlh$uo7$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 07:56:16 -0500
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 16 May 2022 12:56 UTC

On 15/05/2022 16.44, Jack Bohn wrote:

> Blish twice included "Remember Thor V!" among cryptic phrases from the past heard by uncomprehending characters.

Are you saying that he had this *outside* of the Cities stories? I'd
be interested in knowing which, if you happen to recall.

--
Michael F. Stemper
If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much
more like prunes than rhubarb does.

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 16 May 2022 12:59 UTC

On 15/05/2022 23.13, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:57:43 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
> <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, Jack gave a brief infodump on how the franchise and
>> reproductive rights were both tied to being able to hold the
>> right kind of job. (Possibly this was in Mission.)
>
> Well that is DEFINITELY 'channelling his inner Heinlein' since
> Heinlein in several novels tied the franchise to a period of
> government service

I must not have had enough coffee yet this morning. I can only
think of one such novel -- _Starship Troopers_. Which other of
his novels had this idea?

--
Michael F. Stemper
If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much
more like prunes than rhubarb does.

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 08:14:08 -0500
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:14 UTC

On 15/05/2022 10.23, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <t5r4df$777$1@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

>>> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
>>> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
>>> as The Star Dwellers!
>>
>> I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
>> month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
>> RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
>> the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
>> and how much better we do things now.

> Or maybe it's his attempt to emulate YA SF without really understanding
> it.

That's probably more fair to Heinlein, yeah.

--
Michael F. Stemper
What happens if you play John Cage's "4'33" at a slower tempo?

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<8af8ddb9-426f-43bd-b65f-541e73c1cf5dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: jack.boh...@gmail.com (Jack Bohn)
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 by: Jack Bohn - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:21 UTC

Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 16.44, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
> > Blish twice included "Remember Thor V!" among cryptic phrases from the past heard by uncomprehending characters.
> Are you saying that he had this *outside* of the Cities stories? I'd
> be interested in knowing which, if you happen to recall.

I want to say _Midsummer Century_, but I don't have it to check.

I also want to say either "Beep" or its expansion into _The Quincunx of Time_, but I have those[1]. They have a major character named Thor Wald, so I began doubting an offhand reference to another Thor would be made. Indeed, when they browse an archive of transmissions, (in chapter III of the novelette, Chapter Nine of the book,) there is no Thor V, nor anything I can remember as a reference to the Cities stories, unless it is a code consisting of made-up four-syllable words, there is a sequence of seven of them. The novel (which has more examples) does include a clear reference to _Midsummer Century_, and "A Style in Treason." It also, at the end of the chapter, refers to the genius Haertel, of the eponymous drive in "Common Time" and the Heart Stars stories.

Ah! "A Style in Treason" is one of them! Chapter X of it; chapter VIII has a reference to "a sound like a spindizzy going sour."

"A Dusk of Idols" doesn't, but it does reference the Heart stars (with that capitalization).

[1] My brother searched out and bought _Quincunx_ because J.A. Lawrence, completing Blish's Star Trek adaptations with the Harry Mudd episodes created an additional adventure with a plot element taken from that book, with a footnoted reference to it. I feel this is an appropriate place to state he later found a fan article pointing out where Blish himself had snuck references to some of his stories in adaptations of other episodes.

--
-Jack

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<robertaw-E71BB9.09462016052022@news.individual.net>

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 09:46:21 -0700
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 by: Robert Woodward - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:46 UTC

In article <t5rch4$eud$1@reader1.panix.com>,
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> In article <robertaw-FDC887.10025015052022@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >In article <t5qvuu$mmv$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> > jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >> The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
> >>
> >> How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> >> grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> >> as The Star Dwellers!
> >
> >Have you read very many Winston SF titles
> >(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?790+2)?
>
> Oh, yes.

Including _Vandals of the Void_ (the most un-Vancian of the Jack Vance
novels I have read)?

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Mon, 16 May 2022 21:50 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:34:52 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 15:57:55 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
> > >
> > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
> > >
> > > How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> > > grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> > > as The Star Dwellers!
> > I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
> > month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
> > RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
> > the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
> > and how much better we do things now.
> >
> > In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
> > along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
> > didn't understand calculus!"
> This sounds like a Jim Crow law, although calculus
> is how to understand such phenomena as acceleration
> of the value of staying a ways behind the next car
> when driving at speed. I suppose that most twentieth
> century drivers had a reasonable understanding of
> applied physics, and the ones who apparently didn't
> were in newspaper stories about it more often.

People are much better at driving safely than most would estimate
from our recorded reaction times.

It appears that humans have a hardwired appreciation of at least
some things that normally involve calculus. We can throw things
with far more accuracy than other animals.

https://what-if.xkcd.com/44/

Knowing how to derive an integral is not required.

Pt

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

<9nr58h5r1g1i7t43oo8vgs34mugb5cide4@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:40 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:50:47 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:34:52 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 15:57:55 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> > On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
>> > >
>> > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
>> > >
>> > > How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
>> > > grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
>> > > as The Star Dwellers!
>> > I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
>> > month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
>> > RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
>> > the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
>> > and how much better we do things now.
>> >
>> > In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
>> > along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
>> > didn't understand calculus!"
>> This sounds like a Jim Crow law, although calculus
>> is how to understand such phenomena as acceleration
>> of the value of staying a ways behind the next car
>> when driving at speed. I suppose that most twentieth
>> century drivers had a reasonable understanding of
>> applied physics, and the ones who apparently didn't
>> were in newspaper stories about it more often.
>
>People are much better at driving safely than most would estimate
>from our recorded reaction times.
>
>It appears that humans have a hardwired appreciation of at least
>some things that normally involve calculus. We can throw things
>with far more accuracy than other animals.
>
>https://what-if.xkcd.com/44/
>
>Knowing how to derive an integral is not required.

Anybody who tries to drive by doing calculus in his head is probably
already a statistic.

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:57 UTC

On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 22:50:50 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:34:52 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 15:57:55 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > On 15/05/2022 08.41, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
> > > >
> > > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/at-least-it-was-short
> > > >
> > > > How wretched can a YA about a cadet, his space pal, and his
> > > > grumpy mentor be and still get published? At least as bad
> > > > as The Star Dwellers!
> > > I just read this and _Mission to the Heart Stars_ earlier this
> > > month. It seemed to me as if Blish was channeling his inner
> > > RAH. A coming of age story, with two boys and their mentor,
> > > the mentor explaining what was wrong with the twentieth century,
> > > and how much better we do things now.
> > >
> > > In fact, there was even one bit where the mentor said something
> > > along the lines of "believe it or not, they let people drive who
> > > didn't understand calculus!"
> > This sounds like a Jim Crow law, although calculus
> > is how to understand such phenomena as acceleration
> > of the value of staying a ways behind the next car
> > when driving at speed. I suppose that most twentieth
> > century drivers had a reasonable understanding of
> > applied physics, and the ones who apparently didn't
> > were in newspaper stories about it more often.
> People are much better at driving safely than most would estimate
> from our recorded reaction times.
>
> It appears that humans have a hardwired appreciation of at least
> some things that normally involve calculus. We can throw things
> with far more accuracy than other animals.
>
> https://what-if.xkcd.com/44/
>
> Knowing how to derive an integral is not required.

I meant to say "acceleration or the value of staying behind
the next car." And on reflection, let me mention fuel economy.

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
From: jack.boh...@gmail.com (Jack Bohn)
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 by: Jack Bohn - Tue, 17 May 2022 12:39 UTC

Robert Carnegie wrote:

[re: driving and calculus]

> I meant to say "acceleration or the value of staying behind
> the next car." And on reflection, let me mention fuel economy.

I still mostly think of fuel economy as a post-driving metric for analysis. I didn't have instantaneous fuel economy until I was too old to experiment with drafting behind trucks.

I do remember the joys of a long trip; with a digital watch and the trip odometer calculating my average speed for the first minute, then the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seven-and-a-halfth, eighth, tenth, twelfth, fifteenth, eighteenth, and twentieth, then ever sixth minute after that. In my head I could only store the previous average, and the delta to the one before it. Before the twentieth, I'd have reached the highway, and an average speeds graph would have settled down to a flattening curve approaching highway speed.

My current car has two trip odometers, and will display average speed and fuel economy for each, plus there's a graphic display for fuel economy average over five minutes for the previous half hour, with a line showing lifetime fuel efficiency. If I may wax philosophical on that: what you are after two or three hours is pretty much what you are gonna be.

--
-Jack

Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish

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From: tkoe...@netcologne.de (Thomas Koenig)
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Subject: Re: [tears] The Star Dwellers (Heart Stars, volume 1) by James Blish
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 by: Thomas Koenig - Tue, 17 May 2022 21:15 UTC

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> schrieb:

> I still mostly think of fuel economy as a post-driving metric for analysis. I didn't have instantaneous fuel economy until I was too old to experiment with drafting behind trucks.

My grandfather worked on such a system, I used to love helping
him with the experiments. It probably came a bit too early for
market success, though.

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