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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

SubjectAuthor
* A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
|+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
|| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJames Nicoll
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDorothy J Heydt
||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
||  +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
||  |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionScott Lurndal
||  | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDan Swartzendruber
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
||  |  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJay E. Morris
||  |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
||  |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||  |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
||  |     `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decisionpete...@gmail.com
||  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionBice
||   `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Woodward
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJoy Beeson
| `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
|+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
|`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | ||+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |||`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | ||| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | ||| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | |||  +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionMagewolf
| | |||  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionAlan
| | | ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |  `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |   +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |   `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |    +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |    |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |    `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |     +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |     | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |     | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |     | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionLynn McGuire
| | | | |     |  `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |     `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |      `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |       +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionNinapenda Jibini
| | | | |       `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |        `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |         | +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |         | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |         `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionQuadibloc
| | | | |          ||`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | |          |+- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |          |`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |          | `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| | | | |          +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| | | | |          `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |           `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | | |            `- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | +* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionJ. Clarke
| | | | |`- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionPaul S Person
| | | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
| | | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRoss Presser
| | `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionKevrob
| +- Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionRobert Carnegie
| `* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionThe Horny Goat
`* Re: A Poor Supreme Court DecisionDavid Johnston

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Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<g1r58h11l13e2qq9v7u7f3p7i2aqq6nott@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73617&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73617

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 20:29:00 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:29 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:43:00 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:05:54 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
><Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:50:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to
>>>>>>> >a post about when personhood begins.
>>>>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>>>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>>>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is
>>>>>>> a criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>>>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>>>>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>>>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>>>>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>>>>>constitutional lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>>>>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>>>>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>>>>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
>>>>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a
>>>>> person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
>>>>> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>>>>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>>>>> birth certificate.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>>>>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
>>>>FINAL.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from
>>>>> Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian
>>>>> viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
>>>>>
>>>>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject
>>>>> captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not
>>>>> pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any
>>>>> of its appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that
>>>>> even the idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>>>>
>>>>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
>>>>Being born to the wrong person?
>>>
>>> Again, this is not the point.
>>>
>>> The point is the legal definition of "human being".
>>>
>>> And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
>>>
>>> Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.
>>
>>I was replying to the only anti-capital punishment people are pro-life
>>statement,pointing out they are not the same thing.
>
>It is my understanding that, if you check with the Pope, you will find
>that being pro-life includes all of:
>
>1) opposition to abortion
>2) opposition to effective contraception
>3) opposition to capital punishment
>
>Although not a Roman Catholic, I suggest that the Pope's definition of
>"pro-life" is reasonably authoritative.

You don't actually know any Catholics, do you?

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <lcon7hhlfdfdfn6ujul83kksv0dahfldjk@4ax.com> <afa9e72f-298a-4d64-84e3-e39d5a8b3d84n@googlegroups.com> <7348939b-8c29-4a31-868d-cc5e7a9da80dn@googlegroups.com> <6fd72efb-8d6e-4642-8e04-63d45a57f354n@googlegroups.com> <9e883c87-c15b-451a-9497-c09adc697dfbn@googlegroups.com> <bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com> <XnsAE9782162E711taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232> <3p728h9vpi02lht0qeikddnh6amn1t08j8@4ax.com> <XnsAE98722FA9D0Ctaustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245> <36v48hpfgsqsuk9a8rrhs96jjqfko130ga@4ax.com>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Tue, 17 May 2022 02:29 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:36v48hpfgsqsuk9a8rrhs96jjqfko130ga@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022 18:13:30 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:3p728h9vpi02lht0qeikddnh6amn1t08j8@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47:20 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert
>>>>> Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>>>>
>>>>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>>>>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.
>>>>
>>>>Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.
>>>>
>>>>Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to describe
>>>>humans to other crows. Which means that if you piss off a crow
>>>>(they're quite vindictive), it will describe you to all the
>>>>other crows for miles around, and *every* crow will hate you,
>>>>even the first time they see you. And will pass it on to their
>>>>offspring, so every crown in the area will hate you long after
>>>>the one you pissed off is dead.
>>>
>>> Having made that mistake in the past, I can confirm that it
>>> certainly /seems/ that way.
>>
>>There has been peer reviewed research. Some varities will also
>>not only *use* tools to dig food out of small places, they will
>>*manufacture* tools - out of artificial materials (wire).
>>
>>Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that you have a history of
>>tormenting small animals.
>
> Back when I was walking an hour each day for exercise, I walked
> too close to a nest during the season when they were raising
> their young. They didn't like it and attacked. And kept
> attacking.

You deserved it, for tormenting them.
>
> This is not at all uncommon here, as the Burke-Gilman trail has
> many stretches with prime nesting locations on one side or the
> other or both.
>
>>> And, around here at least, they are /protected/, so can't even
>>> defend yourself effectively.
>>
>>Which says more about the intelligence of people than it does
>>about crows.
>
> Provided, of course, that the crows didn't figure out how to get
> themselves put on the list.

If they did, that still says more about the intelligence of people
than it does about crows. Only more so.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:08 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:12:20 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 10:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:37:38 -0700, Paul S Person
>> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> Some overseas charities learned long ago that
>>> -- if you give the husband the money, he will spend it drinking with
>>> his friends
>>> -- if you give the wife the money, she will spend it on the kids first
>>> and then herself and her husband
>>> note that "the money" is often a grant to start a small business with.
>>
>> That's a stereotype and far from a universal truth. I for one don't
>> remember the last time I went drinking in a public place without my
>> wife or daughter present. And I don't at all think I'm "domesticated"
>> in the sense you suggest.
>
>Congrats on the new grandchild !
>
>Lynn

Thanks! My first grandchild - she will be 10 days old tomorrow. Son +
wife aren't keen to have us over just yet - he says they're still
working out their crib arrangements.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:15 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:15:10 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>Personally I'm a Republican and I don't give the tiniest damn what
>Trump wants. He had his shot, he screwed up by the numbers, he lost,
>and I suspect if he tries again it's not going to turn out like he
>planned. Be nice though if he kicked it in the near future so
>everybody woult STFU about the moron.

The Trumpsters would probably describe me as a RINO if I were an
American - I'm very tough on the need to run a tight ship financially
but am fairly tolerant on social issues. I'm NOT one for social
engineering by pouring dollars on them.

My point is that there are a LOT of people like me who will be aghast
at the type of progressive who belongs to the "drunken sailor" sort of
project financing. Similarly we're not the "hang em high types" - the
point being that it is most unwise to assume there are clearly defined
liberal and conservative positions that will line up obediently across
the whole agenda.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:19 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 05:32:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>In a perfect world, we'd remove the quotes around "crimes" in the
>case of those who have openly endorsed the violent insurgency after
>the 2016 election.

Surely you mean 2020 (or more accurately January 2021). I am not aware
of a great deal of uproar relating to Trump's inauguration.

On the other hand you are showing your bias when you excuse the
widespread rioting after the Floyd death in Minneapolis. While SOME of
the demonstrations WERE peaceful, a great many were NOT and anybody
doing the "mostly peaceful" rhetoric is either ignorant or
disingenuous.

There were of course numerous other such cases.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:24 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 00:06:25 -0400, Dan Swartzendruber
<dan888@druber.com> wrote:

>In article <0a36344b-9dbc-4f5f-9495-87d091c7f26fn@googlegroups.com>,
>kevrob@my-deja.com says...
>> The bars in Milwaukee, prior to Wisconsin being whipsawed into
>> raising the drinking age to 21 by the Feds denying states any
>> highway money unless they knuckled under, had a constant
>> stream of brand-new sailors given liberty from the Great Lakes
>> station at North Chicago. IL was a 21 state. If they older, they
>> could get served in the Land of Lincoln.
>
>I went to college in northern Indiana in the 70s. It was very popular
>for students to drive less than 1 hour over the border to Michigan,
>where they could drink at 18+.

That's true pretty much anywhere where there's a boundary where the
drinking age is lower on one side than the other.

I had a similar discussion with my daughter when she came home for
Christmas her first year at Carleton (Ottawa ON where the age is 19
vs across the river in Quebec 18) and I just laughed at her and said
"kid you're a university student now and university students have been
known to raise a pint or two. I have enough faith both in your common
sense and the values you've learned from your mother and I to know you
are MOST unlikely to ever be brought home in a shopping cart!" (She
and I had both seen Animal House so knew instantly what I meant)

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:28 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:18:01 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>I don't think so. The most basic principle of the Traditional Family
>Values they champion is, after all:
>
>women are cattle
>
>However, "all women" is a bit of a stretch. Any woman who is satisfied
>with the 3 Ks (Kinde, Kirche, Kueche -- that is, Kids, Church,
>Kitchen) will find the Republican solutions quite tolerable.

THAT is an extremely low blow since while the term "Kinde, Kirche,
Kueche" was coined by Bismarck, it is most associated with the Third
Reich which some Democrats insist on describing their opposition as.
(As does Putin in describing anybody - not just Ukrainians - who
doesn't embrace him)

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 03:40 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:37:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Is that the most recent Democrat you could come up with that I
>couldn't immediately point to fascist acts they've committed? Most
>likely.
>>
>> It is the /Republicans/ that have gone fascist.
>
>It is *Democrats* who are literally using the history of the rise
>to power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as a handbook.
>>
During the 1920 the Nazi SA were almost entirely engaging in street
battles vs their Communist counterparts. Hard core Nazi anti-semitic
actions didn't really get into full gear until after Jan 1, 1933 when
they took power.

>> And, BTW, "they do it" doesn't mean "I can do it too".
>
>When "it" is, literally, a fascist coup with a genocidal intent,
>you'd have to be pretty goddamn stupid to not expect a vigorous
>resistance. Of course, you *are* pretty goddamn stupid, and it's
>not pretty at all.

If the Nazi metaphor MUST be used here the Nazi-Communist street
battles were commonplace from about 1927 - 1935. Before that the Nazis
weren't strong enough, after that the early concentration camps (note
NOT the death camps that came later) were amping up.

What you saw in the last half of Cabaret and throughout the Graet
Dictator were not far off from reality.

The American version really only took place around Biden's
inauguration not really before or since.
>>>> and decided to "negotiate" like
>>>> North Korea does: get what they can and take the rest if
>>>> possible.
>>>
>>>Like Obama's idea of "bipartisan cooperation" being for the
>>>Republicans to sit down, shut up and do as they're told?

That wasn't really true 2008-2012 but was definitely the case
2012-2016 and the pushback to it was a key part of what fueled the
rise of Trump.
>> The Republicans became well known for sitting down, making an
>> agreement that recognized some of their points, and then
>> breaking it at the first opportunity. Just like North Korea.
>
>Which changes Obama's fascist attitude how? As you say, "they do
>it" doesn't mean "I can do it too".
>
>So you've just damned your Savior. No Salvation for you!
>>
>> No wonder whats-his-name was one of Trump's best buddies!
>
>Do you *really* want to go through the - rather extensive - list of
>criminals assocaited with Queen Hillary? And Hunter Biden's selling
>access to his father to the Chinese?
>
>As you say, "they do it" doesn't mean "I can do it too".
>
>So now you're damned the *current* fascist Democrat regime. Better
>be careful there, son, or there might be jack boots on your neck
>come morning.
>>
>>>The left is *far* more dangerously extreme than the right these
>>>days. You refuse to see it because you believe you won't be
>>>among those sent to reeducation camps at the first opportunity.

For one thing the left are far better organized :)
>> Re-education camps aren't fascist.
>
>I'm sure the ultimate goal is actually concentration camps with
>shower that don't spray water.
>>
>> The camps you are projecting onto the Dems will be extermination
>> camps, run by the alt-right under the aegis of the Republican
>> Party.

That's completely over the top and not at all reasonable. Even at the
worst you can't honestly conceive of "death camps" (e.g. Auschwitz,
Bergen-Belsen etc) as opposed to concentration camps (Dachau - which
held quite a few anti-Nazi Germans. I'm thinking of Bonhoeffer but he
was far from the only one)

>Enjoy your Kook-Aid. Don't mind the almond flavor.

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
Injection-Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 04:29:33 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Kevrob - Tue, 17 May 2022 04:29 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 4:05:59 PM UTC-4, Magewolf wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:50:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Mage...@nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> >>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
> >>>>> >> independently of the mother".
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to
> >>>>> >a post about when personhood begins.
> >>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
> >>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
> >>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is
> >>>>> a criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
> >>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
> >>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
> >>>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
> >>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
> >>>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
> >>>>constitutional lines.
> >>>>
> >>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
> >>>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
> >>>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
> >>>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
> >>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a
> >>> person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
> >>> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
> >>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
> >>> birth certificate.
> >>>
> >>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
> >>>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
> >>>>
> >>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
> >>FINAL.pdf
> >>>
> >>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from
> >>> Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian
> >>> viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
> >>>
> >>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject
> >>> captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not
> >>> pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any
> >>> of its appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that
> >>> even the idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
> >>
> >>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
> >>Being born to the wrong person?
> >
> > Again, this is not the point.
> >
> > The point is the legal definition of "human being".
> >
> > And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
> >
> > Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.
> I was replying to the only anti-capital punishment people are pro-life
> statement,pointing out they are not the same thing.

You might want to search on the term "seamless garment" in
regard to Catholic "pro-lifers." I don 't know if Protestants use
that or have their own jargon.

--
Kevin R

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 05:12 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 15:26:06 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>I suspect our foundes would all have a stroke and die foaming at
>the mouth at what we've become.

Absolutely right.

I'd go so far as saying few science fiction writers write 'as far in
the future' as the 250+ years since 1776 and that our shock at the
23rd / 24th century would be far less than the Americans of that era.

(I know - Star Trek Discovery claims to be in the 31st century but
that is in the aftermath of a galactic collapse involving the
"dilithium burn" - even ST:TNG is not as foreign to us as modern day
America would be to the Founding Fathers.

Franklin would probably quickly grasp the situation of the present day
and probably a few of the others but no question most of them would be
completely gobsmacked though I suspect they'd be generally pleased
with the present day map of North America. Certainly Franklin would
not be surprised to find all of North America had been fully explored
and that there was a state beyond the North American continent and
another state in North America but NOT contiguous to the other 48.

One can only imagine what they might think of present day
Europe.....only ONE German state? (well two if you even notice Austria
on the map which they might or might not...)

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 17 May 2022 06:56 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 9:19:25 PM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:

> On the other hand you are showing your bias when you excuse the
> widespread rioting after the Floyd death in Minneapolis.

While there was indeed widespread property damage and looting, there
is a general consensus that to make a fuss about that in the face of the
death of a human being is... indecent, and shows bigotry against black
people.

Whether or not one agrees with that, therefore, one might avoid citing
those riots as a serious problem to avoid being thought a bigot.

Of course, even if one does not *excuse* the Floyd rioters in the least,
one could view that as a local issue, concerning those who were directly
affected (although that isn't reasonable, because that sort of thing doesn't
_only_ happen in New York, what about the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles -
and in *those* riots, a man was pulled from his truck and suffered life-altering
brain damage from being attacked by a rioter) whereas the January 6
event in Washington D.C. threatened *to take away the ability of the
American people to control the government with their votes*.

And riots like the Rodney King riots and the George Floyd riots are entirely
avoidable - if the police would behave properly. And if so many black people
weren't living in desperate poverty.

I mean, really. Slavery ended, what, over 150 years ago? Why is race even
a _thing_ any more?

John Savard

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 08:51:46 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:51 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:28:29 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:18:01 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I don't think so. The most basic principle of the Traditional Family
>>Values they champion is, after all:
>>
>>women are cattle
>>
>>However, "all women" is a bit of a stretch. Any woman who is satisfied
>>with the 3 Ks (Kinde, Kirche, Kueche -- that is, Kids, Church,
>>Kitchen) will find the Republican solutions quite tolerable.
>
>THAT is an extremely low blow since while the term "Kinde, Kirche,
>Kueche" was coined by Bismarck, it is most associated with the Third
>Reich which some Democrats insist on describing their opposition as.
>(As does Putin in describing anybody - not just Ukrainians - who
>doesn't embrace him)

Are you sure?

IIRC, it was presented to me as the traditional German attitude.

But I suppose they could have been mistaken. Or my memory could be.

And, really, all I am doing is pointing out that it is possible that
not /every/ woman wants to have a career. Some may feel that
"housewife" is career enough.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:53 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:29:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:e3u48hlp0cqi8ulkkrg8slf3gsdg0p6tlj@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:12:30 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:08:42 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, in your diseased fantasy world, all Republicans are
>>>>> hell-bent on murdering all women? That *must* be your belief,
>>>>> based on what you've said.
>>>>
>>>>Can't the people in control of the Republican Party just be
>>>>bent on making life worse for nearly all women?
>>>
>>>This is Democratic Party cant.
>>
>> I don't think so. The most basic principle of the Traditional
>> Family Values they champion is, after all:
>>
>> women are cattle
>>
>> However, "all women" is a bit of a stretch. Any woman who is
>> satisfied with the 3 Ks (Kinde, Kirche, Kueche -- that is, Kids,
>> Church, Kitchen) will find the Republican solutions quite
>> tolerable.
>
>I'm not sure Ms. Ronna McDaniel would agree. In fact, I'm pretty sure
>she wouldn't.

Not agree with what?
-- that all women will find life worse under Republican
totalitarianism?
-- that some women might be content to be houswives?
or something else?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 08:57:46 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:57 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:15:11 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:15:10 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Personally I'm a Republican and I don't give the tiniest damn what
>>Trump wants. He had his shot, he screwed up by the numbers, he lost,
>>and I suspect if he tries again it's not going to turn out like he
>>planned. Be nice though if he kicked it in the near future so
>>everybody woult STFU about the moron.
>
>The Trumpsters would probably describe me as a RINO if I were an
>American - I'm very tough on the need to run a tight ship financially
>but am fairly tolerant on social issues. I'm NOT one for social
>engineering by pouring dollars on them.
>
>My point is that there are a LOT of people like me who will be aghast
>at the type of progressive who belongs to the "drunken sailor" sort of
>project financing. Similarly we're not the "hang em high types" - the
>point being that it is most unwise to assume there are clearly defined
>liberal and conservative positions that will line up obediently across
>the whole agenda.

The problem is that the Republican Party has become an ideological
party -- and, yes, everbody has to believe the same thing or they are
RINOs.

I will agree that the Dems are moving in that direction, but they
aren't there yet.

But as to individuals not a member of either party, yes, they will
agree with one on some issues and the other on some others. That is
why they are "in the middle" overall.

Kind of like a donkey equally spaced between two bales of hay.

--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:02 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:05:41 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 11:41 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> In article <9ni38hpfpv3h70fbpmgo4jbmhtsoslt26c@4ax.com>,
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:40:36 -0700, Paul S Person
>>> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I should acknowledge here that, much as I would prefer a different
>>>> outcome, the usual result of a mid-term election in a President's
>>>> first term is, indeed, for the other side to take control of Congress.
>>>>
>>>> Up to 40 years ago, this was arguably a good thing, as it forced
>>>> middle-of-the-road comprise measures. But then the Republicans went
>>>> all ideological on us, and decided to "negotiate" like North Korea
>>>> does: get what they can and take the rest if possible.
>>>
>>> Oh? And the fact that modern Democrats egg on their most extreme
>>> elements (the Squad's open anti-Semiticism is the least of their
>>> "crimes") with zero restraint whatever?
>>>
>>> I'm no Trump-ista but if you describe ALL Republicans in those terms
>>> you have simply got to expect some pushback. No doubt there are some
>>> wingnuts but it's not the entire party.
>>
>> The minions of Trump are busy driving out all sane Republicans by
>> calling them RINOs (of course, Trump and company are the actual
>> Republicans In Name Only).
>
>Trump's legacy, three conservative SCOTUS justices (two more than I had
>expected), is proof to me and mine that Trump was not and is not a RINO.

Who all appear to be agreeing with a Justice who apparently believes
in Replacement Theory, a staple of the alt-right. Judging from the
footnotes to his draft. Footnotes, I should add, that may or may not
remain in the actual decision if Roe v Wade is overturned.

Trump is a RINO because he is /way/ too far to the right.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:03 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:mf568hd63vv4c70bdb31t789gb8t2cj83p@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:18:01 -0700, Paul S Person
> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I don't think so. The most basic principle of the Traditional
>>Family Values they champion is, after all:
>>
>>women are cattle
>>
>>However, "all women" is a bit of a stretch. Any woman who is
>>satisfied with the 3 Ks (Kinde, Kirche, Kueche -- that is, Kids,
>>Church, Kitchen) will find the Republican solutions quite
>>tolerable.
>
> THAT is an extremely low blow since while the term "Kinde,
> Kirche, Kueche" was coined by Bismarck, it is most associated
> with the Third Reich which some Democrats insist on describing
> their opposition as. (As does Putin in describing anybody - not
> just Ukrainians - who doesn't embrace him)
>
You've *just* noticed that the *first* place the left goes is "if you
disagree with me you're literally Hitler"? That's been their standard
line for many years now.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:04 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:mn568hdlubc1ssntia7q017l77159nesb9@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:37:27 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Is that the most recent Democrat you could come up with that I
>>couldn't immediately point to fascist acts they've committed?
>>Most likely.
>>>
>>> It is the /Republicans/ that have gone fascist.
>>
>>It is *Democrats* who are literally using the history of the
>>rise to power of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 20s as a
>>handbook.
>>>
> During the 1920 the Nazi SA were almost entirely engaging in
> street battles vs their Communist counterparts.

Yes. Perhaps you've hear of "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa," though
of course, you're not allowed to recognize their violent insurgency
trying to overturn the 2016 election was exactly that.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<1qh78htu85bd5pd8a2q1cbcql8rgdgo7i5@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:05:15 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:05 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 23:56:43 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 9:19:25 PM UTC-6, The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On the other hand you are showing your bias when you excuse the
>> widespread rioting after the Floyd death in Minneapolis.
>
>While there was indeed widespread property damage and looting, there
>is a general consensus that to make a fuss about that in the face of the
>death of a human being is... indecent, and shows bigotry against black
>people.
>
>Whether or not one agrees with that, therefore, one might avoid citing
>those riots as a serious problem to avoid being thought a bigot.
>
>Of course, even if one does not *excuse* the Floyd rioters in the least,
>one could view that as a local issue, concerning those who were directly
>affected (although that isn't reasonable, because that sort of thing doesn't
>_only_ happen in New York, what about the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles -
>and in *those* riots, a man was pulled from his truck and suffered life-altering
>brain damage from being attacked by a rioter) whereas the January 6
>event in Washington D.C. threatened *to take away the ability of the
>American people to control the government with their votes*.
>
>And riots like the Rodney King riots and the George Floyd riots are entirely
>avoidable - if the police would behave properly. And if so many black people
>weren't living in desperate poverty.
>
>I mean, really. Slavery ended, what, over 150 years ago? Why is race even
>a _thing_ any more?

Because the sad truth is that racism is as American as apple pie.
Albeit now in only some areas.

And will continue to be such until rooted out altogether.

Hence the uproar over actually teaching kids to recognize it and call
it out when they see it, as opposed to treating it as one of the
"fnords".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:07 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:86h78hdrpas3od9oq7a8q2ire40nk5c21j@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:29:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:e3u48hlp0cqi8ulkkrg8slf3gsdg0p6tlj@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:12:30 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:08:42 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
>>>>>Jibini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, in your diseased fantasy world, all Republicans are
>>>>>> hell-bent on murdering all women? That *must* be your
>>>>>> belief, based on what you've said.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can't the people in control of the Republican Party just be
>>>>>bent on making life worse for nearly all women?
>>>>
>>>>This is Democratic Party cant.
>>>
>>> I don't think so. The most basic principle of the Traditional
>>> Family Values they champion is, after all:
>>>
>>> women are cattle
>>>
>>> However, "all women" is a bit of a stretch. Any woman who is
>>> satisfied with the 3 Ks (Kinde, Kirche, Kueche -- that is,
>>> Kids, Church, Kitchen) will find the Republican solutions
>>> quite tolerable.
>>
>>I'm not sure Ms. Ronna McDaniel would agree. In fact, I'm pretty
>>sure she wouldn't.
>
> Not agree with what?
> -- that all women will find life worse under Republican
> totalitarianism?

Since she's the Chairwoman of the Republican National Committee,
yes, I'm pretty sure she would disagree with that.

> -- that some women might be content to be houswives?
> or something else?

I'm sure she'd agree you're nothing but a retarded parrot mouthing
other people's lies.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:12:39 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:12 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:59:51 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 20:40:04 UTC+1, rpre...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:25:59 AM UTC-4, Bice wrote:
>> > On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT), Ross Presser
>> > <rpre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Well, the more traditional Calvinists still believe that the State
>> > >> exists to do whatever they tell it to do. One of them said so, IIRC,
>> > >> while running in a primary.
>> > >
>> > >I would like to see a citation for that.
>> > "Don't talk to me about separation of church and state. Church and
>> > state was written because the state has no business in our church. But
>> > we are the church. We are the church, and we run the state."
>> >
>> > -- Georgia gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor
>> >
>> > Quote for May 2, 2022 from:
>> >
>> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/media/say_what/archive?page=2
>>
>> Although this citation does date the quote to May 2, 2022, other searching I've done dates it
>> to April 2, 2022. For example:
>> https://www.newsweek.com/gop-candidate-says-we-are-church-we-run-state-viral-video-1696729
>>
>> I still would like a cite for "one /white/ man, one /white/ woman, and their children"
>
>Where is that supposed to have come from? It could
>be out of the traditional "mad scene" performed in each
>year's Republican convention, but Google doesn't recognise
>the words, which implies no one even alleges it, or else
>they're censoring it of course.

<snippo>
It was the /family/ that was being defined, not marriage.

To the best of my recollection, it was a candidate in the Republican
Primary for a State-level office. Possibly in Wisconsin, although
quite possibly not.

Note that "State-level" includes State legislators that run in only
one State district, which is pretty local in practice.

That's a lot of possibles -- some of which may have lost the Primary
and so be harder to track.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:14 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:29:22 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:36v48hpfgsqsuk9a8rrhs96jjqfko130ga@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 18:13:30 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:3p728h9vpi02lht0qeikddnh6amn1t08j8@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47:20 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert
>>>>>> Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>>>>>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to describe
>>>>>humans to other crows. Which means that if you piss off a crow
>>>>>(they're quite vindictive), it will describe you to all the
>>>>>other crows for miles around, and *every* crow will hate you,
>>>>>even the first time they see you. And will pass it on to their
>>>>>offspring, so every crown in the area will hate you long after
>>>>>the one you pissed off is dead.
>>>>
>>>> Having made that mistake in the past, I can confirm that it
>>>> certainly /seems/ that way.
>>>
>>>There has been peer reviewed research. Some varities will also
>>>not only *use* tools to dig food out of small places, they will
>>>*manufacture* tools - out of artificial materials (wire).
>>>
>>>Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that you have a history of
>>>tormenting small animals.
>>
>> Back when I was walking an hour each day for exercise, I walked
>> too close to a nest during the season when they were raising
>> their young. They didn't like it and attacked. And kept
>> attacking.
>
>You deserved it, for tormenting them.

I apparently strayed "too close" to the nest. Which I never saw.

But they may have felt tormented, I suppose. More likely, they felt
that their eggs or chicks were /threatened/. They have a
territoriality range of at least 10 feet, possibly more.
>> This is not at all uncommon here, as the Burke-Gilman trail has
>> many stretches with prime nesting locations on one side or the
>> other or both.
>>
>>>> And, around here at least, they are /protected/, so can't even
>>>> defend yourself effectively.
>>>
>>>Which says more about the intelligence of people than it does
>>>about crows.
>>
>> Provided, of course, that the crows didn't figure out how to get
>> themselves put on the list.
>
>If they did, that still says more about the intelligence of people
>than it does about crows. Only more so.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:15 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:39:59 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:47:29 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>This was a very interesting mish-mash of quotes from different
>sequences. Granted, they all had the same overall title, but the only
>place they form a continual conversation is -- here.
>
>>> Aristotle may seem to be simplistic here, but plants /do/ grow,
>>> animals /do/ move, and humans /do/ reason.
>>
>>Reason? Plants and Animals don't do religion.
>
>Actually, depending on how you /define/ religion, they do.
>
>Or, more properly, can be made to do so under laboratory conditions.

"They" refers to "animals" or, more particularly, IIRC, pigeons.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:17 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:29:00 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:43:00 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:05:54 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>><Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:50:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were replying to
>>>>>>>> >a post about when personhood begins.
>>>>>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the Breath of
>>>>>>>> Life, causing it to breath independently of the mother. As noted,
>>>>>>>> providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be apparent, this is
>>>>>>>> a criterion based on religion. And not just Christianity or even
>>>>>>>> Judaism. It was probably pretty universal, and may still be.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>>>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege religious
>>>>>>>values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically ethics)
>>>>>>>and/or appeal to the biology of human development, but when you appeal
>>>>>>>to religious tradition and/or theology you have colored outside the
>>>>>>>constitutional lines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the idea that a
>>>>>>>not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed with some sort of a
>>>>>>>psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've never heard of any theory of
>>>>>>>souls growing and developing the way the human body and mind do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point, merely
>>>>>> pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional answer to when a
>>>>>> person begins. And that it /is/ the traditional Christian answer as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on the web
>>>>>> and found out that Canada also requires a live birth (including, say,
>>>>>> C-sections) before the existence of a human being is recognized with a
>>>>>> birth certificate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views on the
>>>>>>>personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-
>>>>>FINAL.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed from
>>>>>> Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional Christian
>>>>>> viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also reject
>>>>>> captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are anti-abortion but not
>>>>>> pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme Court routinely refuses to use any
>>>>>> of its appeals involving capital punishment, it must be concluded that
>>>>>> even the idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death penalty?
>>>>>Being born to the wrong person?
>>>>
>>>> Again, this is not the point.
>>>>
>>>> The point is the legal definition of "human being".
>>>>
>>>> And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
>>>>
>>>> Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.
>>>
>>>I was replying to the only anti-capital punishment people are pro-life
>>>statement,pointing out they are not the same thing.
>>
>>It is my understanding that, if you check with the Pope, you will find
>>that being pro-life includes all of:
>>
>>1) opposition to abortion
>>2) opposition to effective contraception
>>3) opposition to capital punishment
>>
>>Although not a Roman Catholic, I suggest that the Pope's definition of
>>"pro-life" is reasonably authoritative.
>
>You don't actually know any Catholics, do you?

I've known several, in various contexts.

And, while they may not /agree/ with the Pope, I suspect that they
accept his definition of "pro-life".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<bli78hhbnfrpl0age5fkeacf3o6rq528nf@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:25 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:59:00 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:gkv48h93ilq8kgp6op38kgvc9demkha3ds@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:05:54 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:50:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:22:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>>>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:58:49 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
>>>>>> <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:21:24 PM UTC-4, Paul S
>>>>>>>Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:08:03 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>>>>>>>> >Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> The /traditional/ time is "when the child draws breath
>>>>>>>> >> independently of the mother".
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >That may be the traditional time of birth, but you were
>>>>>>>> >replying to a post about when personhood begins.
>>>>>>>> It begins when God breathes into the infant's nostrils the
>>>>>>>> Breath of Life, causing it to breath independently of the
>>>>>>>> mother. As noted, providing assistance is allowed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry to get so religious on you but, as should be
>>>>>>>> apparent, this is a criterion based on religion. And not
>>>>>>>> just Christianity or even Judaism. It was probably pretty
>>>>>>>> universal, and may still be. --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not a good answer for those of us living in a republic that,
>>>>>>>the opinions of some conservatives aside, does not privilege
>>>>>>>religious values. Appeal to philosophy (specifically
>>>>>>>ethics) and/or appeal to the biology of human development,
>>>>>>>but when you appeal to religious tradition and/or theology
>>>>>>>you have colored outside the constitutional lines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once we started thinking that minds depend on brains, the
>>>>>>>idea that a not-very-developed brain comes pre-installed
>>>>>>>with some sort of a psyche/pneuma/soul seems ludicrous, I've
>>>>>>>never heard of any theory of souls growing and developing
>>>>>>>the way the human body and mind do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to prove the underlying theological point,
>>>>>> merely pointing to Quadi that that /is/ the traditional
>>>>>> answer to when a person begins. And that it /is/ the
>>>>>> traditional Christian answer as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He hasn't responded. Perhaps he checked with a lawyer or on
>>>>>> the web and found out that Canada also requires a live birth
>>>>>> (including, say, C-sections) before the existence of a human
>>>>>> being is recognized with a birth certificate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Judaism and ("pro-life") Christianity have dissimilar views
>>>>>>>on the personhood of the fetus in the womb.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-A
>>>>>>>bortion-
>>>>>FINAL.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sound surprising familiar, but then, Christianity developed
>>>>>> from Judaism so it is not surprising that the traditional
>>>>>> Christian viewpoint would be much the same as given here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My feeling is to allow "pro-life" only to those who also
>>>>>> reject captial punishment. Many Evangelicals are
>>>>>> anti-abortion but not pro-life. Indeed, since the Supreme
>>>>>> Court routinely refuses to use any of its appeals involving
>>>>>> capital punishment, it must be concluded that even the
>>>>>> idiotic five are not pro-life but merely anti-abortion.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why? What action has the fetus taken that warranted a death
>>>>>penalty? Being born to the wrong person?
>>>>
>>>> Again, this is not the point.
>>>>
>>>> The point is the legal definition of "human being".
>>>>
>>>> And an unborn child does /not/ qualify.
>>>>
>>>> Hysteria does not help, not even one little bit.
>>>
>>>I was replying to the only anti-capital punishment people are
>>>pro-life statement,pointing out they are not the same thing.
>>
>> It is my understanding that, if you check with the Pope, you
>> will find that being pro-life includes all of:
>>
>> 1) opposition to abortion
>> 2) opposition to effective contraception
>> 3) opposition to capital punishment
>>
>> Although not a Roman Catholic, I suggest that the Pope's
>> definition of "pro-life" is reasonably authoritative.
>
>Only for Catholics. And really, when it comes to the loudest of the
>anti-abortion types in the US, neither they nor the Pope would
>consider tham Catholic (and most of them dont' consider Catholics
>Christian, or even human).

Actually, some of them have been warming up to Rome, to the point of
adding opposition to contraception to their position and redefining
infanticide as "post-birth abortion" so the Fathers can be said to
oppose abortion.

Such concern over the Fathers as somehow Authorities, given that /sola
scriptura/ is a foundational principle of Protestantism and clearly
excludes them, is very indicative of just in what direction those
evangelicals doing this are moving.

I'm not sure how rabidly anti-Catholic evangelicals are today. At
least one major denominational organization of Lutherans dropped that
in the 50s.

As to the definition of "pro-life", I suggest that the Pope's
definition is, in fact, the best definition. Which leaves most
anti-abortion types "anti-abortion" rather than "pro-life".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision

<XnsAE9A655147491taustingmail@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: A Poor Supreme Court Decision
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:57 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:0di78hls0usllsrrj6a79ef8mtq8i0soka@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:29:22 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:36v48hpfgsqsuk9a8rrhs96jjqfko130ga@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 18:13:30 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>news:3p728h9vpi02lht0qeikddnh6amn1t08j8@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 19:47:20 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>>>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>>news:bd3d28ee-d04b-443c-976e-2733adfb7f3cn@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:46:39 AM UTC-6, Robert
>>>>>>> Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lots of critters hiss. Maybe it's a lingua francccccccca.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You didn't bother mentioning parrots. Yes, many creatures
>>>>>>> vocalize, but only humans have *language*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rather thoroughly proven to not be true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Crows, for instance, have demonstrated the ability to
>>>>>>describe humans to other crows. Which means that if you piss
>>>>>>off a crow (they're quite vindictive), it will describe you
>>>>>>to all the other crows for miles around, and *every* crow
>>>>>>will hate you, even the first time they see you. And will
>>>>>>pass it on to their offspring, so every crown in the area
>>>>>>will hate you long after the one you pissed off is dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having made that mistake in the past, I can confirm that it
>>>>> certainly /seems/ that way.
>>>>
>>>>There has been peer reviewed research. Some varities will also
>>>>not only *use* tools to dig food out of small places, they
>>>>will *manufacture* tools - out of artificial materials (wire).
>>>>
>>>>Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that you have a history of
>>>>tormenting small animals.
>>>
>>> Back when I was walking an hour each day for exercise, I
>>> walked too close to a nest during the season when they were
>>> raising their young. They didn't like it and attacked. And
>>> kept attacking.
>>
>>You deserved it, for tormenting them.
>
> I apparently strayed "too close" to the nest. Which I never saw.
>
> But they may have felt tormented, I suppose. More likely, they
> felt that their eggs or chicks were /threatened/. They have a
> territoriality range of at least 10 feet, possibly more.

So far as the crows are concerned (and their opinion is the only
one that matters to them), if they become aware you exist, you're
tormenting them, and deserve it. Crows are not known for their
warm, fuzzy personalities.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

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