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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsCharles Packer
|+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
|||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
||||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
|||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsTony Nance
||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThomas Koenig
|`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsKevrob
+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsRobert Carnegie
|`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
| `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | || `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |||   |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||   |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |||    `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||     `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||| +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| ||| |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| ||| `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | ||| |||  `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| || `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||  +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| ||    |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsNinapenda Jibini
 | ||| ||    | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||    |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    |   +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||    |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||    |    `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||    |     +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||    |     |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | ||| ||    |     `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||| ||    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||| | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |   |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| |   | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| |   |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
 | ||| |   |   `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| |   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| |    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsKevrob
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | |||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThomas Koenig
 | | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | | |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | | | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | | |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | | |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston
 | |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | |||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsChris Buckley
 | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston

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[OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<babc2dfb-e2d9-4e5a-8610-cce93844f489n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
Injection-Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 04:41:22 +0000
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 17 May 2022 04:41 UTC

I saw this article on the recent mass shooting in Buffalo on CBC, and thought it
worth sharing:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-16-2022-1.6454744/blaming-fox-news-republican-rhetoric-for-buffalo-mass-shooting-is-too-easy-says-professor-1.6454921

The professor being interviewed for CBC Radio says it's "too easy" to blame
Fox News and the Republicans for the tragedy in Buffalo because... racism
existed in America before Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump came along.

You don't say! While I realize that Canadians may not be as knowledgeable
about things American than citizens and residents of the United States, I'd
suspect this is *not* news, even in Canada.

And while the "great replacement" theory is racist, it's racist because white
people aren't really in the imminent danger of being replaced that it
claims. Being concerned about the survival of one's community, and not
wishing to change from being a member of the majority in one's own
homeland to being part of a minority there... is not racist in itself.

At least, nobody ever came up with the claim that it _was_ as another
excuse for not giving the country back to the Indians!

Actually, maybe someone did do so at least once. I should not
underestimate human perversity.

But while mass shootings will always tend to divide Americans over the
contentious issue of gun control, not all mass shootings are as divisive in
other respects as the one in Buffalo N.Y..

And so we had another mass shooting sitting next to the one in Buffalo in
the headlines - a mass shooting at a church. This one only claimed one
life, although several other people were hit by the shooter's bullets.

The shooter was a recent arrival from Red China who despised those
ornery Taiwanese who refused to submit to the embrace of the
Motherland, and so he shot up a Taiwanese church in California.

If he only serves a long prison sentence, instead of being executed, I
doubt this is going to do his social credit rating any good when he is
deported at the end of his sentence.

Something like this will unite nearly all Americans, because support for
Taiwan is strong on both sides of the Democratic-Republican divide.

Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
suppose, from a different viewpoint.

John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<StIgK.12813$pqKf.7736@fx12.iad>

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From: mail...@cpacker.org (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Charles Packer - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

[stuff]

Fun fact (courtesy of HowManyOfMe.com): There are less than 1700
Americans named Payton. Racist, schmacist. If I had had the name
Payton inflicted on me by parents named Pam and Paul, I'd
eventually...well, I don't know what I'd do.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<34p78h1qhllcidd2u1li5ecq5dvur8e074@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: The Horny Goat - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:10 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51:14 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>[stuff]
>
>
>Fun fact (courtesy of HowManyOfMe.com): There are less than 1700
>Americans named Payton. Racist, schmacist. If I had had the name
>Payton inflicted on me by parents named Pam and Paul, I'd
>eventually...well, I don't know what I'd do.

Apparently according to that site there are 63000 people in the US
with my first name and 4800 with my last name and 1 person with both.
Since I am not >IN< the United States well he ain't me.

I'd be curious knowing where he is and possibly getting in contact but
that's unlikely and have Googled my name several times and never found
reference to whoever he is. (Whereas I am involved in several things
that the Google engine scoops up and indexes)

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<9c95d181-b39e-4124-9b12-e22ffe9db63cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:14 UTC

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 05:41:24 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> I saw this article on the recent mass shooting in Buffalo on CBC, and thought it
> worth sharing:
>
> https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-16-2022-1.6454744/blaming-fox-news-republican-rhetoric-for-buffalo-mass-shooting-is-too-easy-says-professor-1.6454921
>
> The professor being interviewed for CBC Radio says it's "too easy" to blame
> Fox News and the Republicans for the tragedy in Buffalo because... racism
> existed in America before Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump came along.
>
> You don't say! While I realize that Canadians may not be as knowledgeable
> about things American than citizens and residents of the United States, I'd
> suspect this is *not* news, even in Canada.
>
> And while the "great replacement" theory is racist, it's racist because white
> people aren't really in the imminent danger of being replaced that it
> claims. Being concerned about the survival of one's community, and not
> wishing to change from being a member of the majority in one's own
> homeland to being part of a minority there... is not racist in itself.

If "one's community" is your race - I think that most people
would regard that as racism, whether they're for or against that.

ObSF: in Poul Anderson's _There Will Be Time_ when
the hero and heroine of different dates time travel to
the future and see humans associating with extraordinary
aliens. He reacts with wonder and delight, she reacts
with fear and panic - until he talks her around.

People are /allowed to be different./

> At least, nobody ever came up with the claim that it _was_ as another
> excuse for not giving the country back to the Indians! w
>
> Actually, maybe someone did do so at least once. I should not
> underestimate human perversity.
>
> But while mass shootings will always tend to divide Americans over the
> contentious issue of gun control, not all mass shootings are as divisive in
> other respects as the one in Buffalo N.Y..
>
> And so we had another mass shooting sitting next to the one in Buffalo in
> the headlines - a mass shooting at a church. This one only claimed one
> life, although several other people were hit by the shooter's bullets.
>
> The shooter was a recent arrival from Red China who despised those
> ornery Taiwanese who refused to submit to the embrace of the
> Motherland, and so he shot up a Taiwanese church in California.
>
> If he only serves a long prison sentence, instead of being executed, I
> doubt this is going to do his social credit rating any good when he is
> deported at the end of his sentence.
>
> Something like this will unite nearly all Americans, because support for
> Taiwan is strong on both sides of the Democratic-Republican divide.
>
> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>
> John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<d17933ef-d15c-408f-bb65-52db0338a7fan@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:09 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:10:16 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51:14 GMT, Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org>
> wrote:
> >On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
> >
> >[stuff]
> >
> >
> >Fun fact (courtesy of HowManyOfMe.com): There are less than 1700
> >Americans named Payton. Racist, schmacist. If I had had the name
> >Payton inflicted on me by parents named Pam and Paul, I'd
> >eventually...well, I don't know what I'd do.
> Apparently according to that site there are 63000 people in the US
> with my first name and 4800 with my last name and 1 person with both.
> Since I am not >IN< the United States well he ain't me.
>
> I'd be curious knowing where he is and possibly getting in contact but
> that's unlikely and have Googled my name several times and never found
> reference to whoever he is. (Whereas I am involved in several things
> that the Google engine scoops up and indexes)

Don't trust the site. It says I don't exist. 642,077 with my first name,
163 with my last, and 0 with both.

pt

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:46 UTC

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:10:16 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51:14 GMT, Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org>
>> wrote:
>> >On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>> >
>> >[stuff]
>> >
>> >
>> >Fun fact (courtesy of HowManyOfMe.com): There are less than 1700
>> >Americans named Payton. Racist, schmacist. If I had had the name
>> >Payton inflicted on me by parents named Pam and Paul, I'd
>> >eventually...well, I don't know what I'd do.
>> Apparently according to that site there are 63000 people in the US
>> with my first name and 4800 with my last name and 1 person with both.
>> Since I am not >IN< the United States well he ain't me.
>>
>> I'd be curious knowing where he is and possibly getting in contact but
>> that's unlikely and have Googled my name several times and never found
>> reference to whoever he is. (Whereas I am involved in several things
>> that the Google engine scoops up and indexes)
>
>Don't trust the site. It says I don't exist. 642,077 with my first name,
>163 with my last, and 0 with both.

Check back in a couple of days, maybe that's how they populate their database.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: tkoe...@netcologne.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 21:10:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Thomas Koenig - Tue, 17 May 2022 21:10 UTC

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> schrieb:

> Apparently according to that site there are 63000 people in the US
> with my first name

"The" is an unusal first name. I have only run across this once,
with "The Journalist" in "Starship Titanic".

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:08 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>I saw this article on the recent mass shooting in Buffalo on CBC, and thought it
>worth sharing:
>
>https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-16-2022-1.6454744/blaming-fox-news-republican-rhetoric-for-buffalo-mass-shooting-is-too-easy-says-professor-1.6454921
>
>The professor being interviewed for CBC Radio says it's "too easy" to blame
>Fox News and the Republicans for the tragedy in Buffalo because... racism
>existed in America before Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump came along.
>
>You don't say! While I realize that Canadians may not be as knowledgeable
>about things American than citizens and residents of the United States, I'd
>suspect this is *not* news, even in Canada.
>
>And while the "great replacement" theory is racist, it's racist because white
>people aren't really in the imminent danger of being replaced that it
>claims. Being concerned about the survival of one's community, and not
>wishing to change from being a member of the majority in one's own
>homeland to being part of a minority there... is not racist in itself.
>
>At least, nobody ever came up with the claim that it _was_ as another
>excuse for not giving the country back to the Indians!
>
>Actually, maybe someone did do so at least once. I should not
>underestimate human perversity.
>
>But while mass shootings will always tend to divide Americans over the
>contentious issue of gun control, not all mass shootings are as divisive in
>other respects as the one in Buffalo N.Y..
>
>And so we had another mass shooting sitting next to the one in Buffalo in
>the headlines - a mass shooting at a church. This one only claimed one
>life, although several other people were hit by the shooter's bullets.
>
>The shooter was a recent arrival from Red China who despised those
>ornery Taiwanese who refused to submit to the embrace of the
>Motherland, and so he shot up a Taiwanese church in California.
>
>If he only serves a long prison sentence, instead of being executed, I
>doubt this is going to do his social credit rating any good when he is
>deported at the end of his sentence.
>
>Something like this will unite nearly all Americans, because support for
>Taiwan is strong on both sides of the Democratic-Republican divide.
>
>Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>suppose, from a different viewpoint.

WWI wasn't about "defending freedom". It was about which member of
the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha clan had the biggest dick.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:52 UTC

On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
....
> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>
> John Savard

“Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385

“A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
them deal with it.”

It is time for the USA to leave NATO.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: tonynanc...@gmail.com (Tony Nance)
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 by: Tony Nance - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:10 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:09:57 PM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:10:16 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51:14 GMT, Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org>
> > wrote:
> > >On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
> > >
> > >[stuff]
> > >
> > >
> > >Fun fact (courtesy of HowManyOfMe.com): There are less than 1700
> > >Americans named Payton. Racist, schmacist. If I had had the name
> > >Payton inflicted on me by parents named Pam and Paul, I'd
> > >eventually...well, I don't know what I'd do.
> >
> > <snip for brevity
> >
>
> Don't trust the site. It says I don't exist. 642,077 with my first name,
> 163 with my last, and 0 with both.
>

Aye - the site underreports. For example, from the ssa.gov website,
where you can search for baby names:

More information for male name Payton
• For 2018, the number of births with name Payton is 237, which represents 0.012 percent of total male births in 2018.
• The year when the name Payton was most popular is 2000. In that year, the number of births is 1581, which represents 0.076 percent of total male births in 2000.

More information for female name Payton
• For 2021, the number of births with name Payton is 1164, which represents 0.065 percent of total female births in 2021.
• The year when the name Payton was most popular is 2010. In that year, the number of births is 3586, which represents 0.183 percent of total female births in 2010.

Tony

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 16:24:58 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:24 UTC

On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> ...
>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>
> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>
>
> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
> them deal with it.”
>
> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>
No, it isn't.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:56 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>...
>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>
>> John Savard
>
>“Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>
>https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>
>“A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
>States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
>them deal with it.”
>
>It is time for the USA to leave NATO.

And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back there but
without the forward basing and commonality of systems and coordinated
doctrine that we have now.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Lynn McGuire - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:57 UTC

On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> ...
>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that
>>> seem
>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>
>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>
>>
>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>
>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>
> No, it isn't.

That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?

Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
volunteering skills during that talk.

He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from Lance
Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four year
active duty. By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they can now
call him up for wartime duty until he is 45. He is now 38.

After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and had
to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with the
Corps. Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer. His
answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq. He had to shoot the
Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on blue incident).

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 17:45:03 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:45 UTC

On 5/17/2022 4:57 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that
>>>> seem
>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of
>>>> the
>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>
>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>
>>>
>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>
>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>
>> No, it isn't.
>
> That is a very expansive answer.  Why not ?
>
> Let's send your kids then.  Mine went to Iraq already.  Twice.  He was
> smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that.  He
> and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
> volunteering skills during that talk.
>
> He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from Lance
> Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four year
> active duty.  By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they can now
> call him up for wartime duty until he is 45.  He is now 38.
>
> After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and had
> to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with the
> Corps.  Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer.  His
> answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq.  He had to shoot the
> Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on blue incident).
>
First, all the Middle East adventures weren't NATO.

Second, if Trump hadn't spent four years trying to undermine and
dismantle NATO there is a good chance that Russia wouldn't have invaded
Ukraine. Being part of a strong alliance is a way to AVOID wars.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:13 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:53:04 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
> them deal with it.”

That's just crazy talk.

Russia's immediate neighbors can't deal with the threat Russia poses
to them, because Russia has nukes and they don't. Period.

That's why we need an international order where the world's free
countries are defended by the most powerful free nation with nuclear
weapons.

And Russia certainly _does_ threaten the United States. So does China.
Tyranny anywhere threatens all free men everywhere.

If Russia is willing to invade Ukraine for purposes of conquest, then it would
be willing to invade the United States and conquer it, if it could get away
with it. And if Russia and China control almost the whole rest of the world,
then *they* can be the ones to choke off the U.S. with sanctions.

If Russia destroys NATO and conquers continental Europe, then it will control
ASML, from which it can supply TSMC after mainland China conquers Taiwan.
So Russia and China, rather than the United States, will have the latest and
greatest microchips.

John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:16 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:53:04 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>
> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>
> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
> them deal with it.”
>
> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.

Here's another quote from the article:

"By welcoming Finland into NATO, Biden is offering Helsinki
the kind of war guarantee Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain
gave to Poland in the spring of 1939, which led to Britain’s
having to declare war on Sept. 3, 1939, two days after
Germany invaded Poland."

The guy's a Nazi.

John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:19 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:57:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that
>>>> seem
>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>
>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>
>>>
>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>
>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>
>> No, it isn't.
>
>That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>
>Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
>smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
>and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>volunteering skills during that talk.
>
>He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from Lance
>Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four year
>active duty. By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they can now
>call him up for wartime duty until he is 45. He is now 38.
>
>After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and had
>to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with the
>Corps. Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer. His
>answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq. He had to shoot the
>Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on blue incident).

What does any of that have to do with the US belonging to NATO? Are
you under the mistaken impression that those wars happened because a
NATO member invoked the NATO treaty rather than because Shrub didn't
think his dick was big enough?

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:22 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:44:52 PM UTC-6, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

> Second, if Trump hadn't spent four years trying to undermine and
> dismantle NATO there is a good chance that Russia wouldn't have invaded
> Ukraine. Being part of a strong alliance is a way to AVOID wars.

If George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, *and* Joe Biden hadn't
done the obvious - and gotten Ukraine admitted to NATO after Russia proved
that it was a threat to its freedom by invading first Crimea, and then Donetsk
and Luhansk - *then* Russia indeed would not have been likely to have invaded
Ukraine.

And this is not just hindsight. I've posted several times about this before
the current invasion of Ukraine, and J. Clarke replied in a contradictory manner,
and is even now refusing to admit that I was right and he was wrong.

As it is, Georgia and Ukraine are the "Czechoslovakia" with which the resolve
of the U.S. and the West was tested - if Putin assumes it is weak enough for
his purposes, Estonia is a name that keeps coming up as the "Poland" to
which he will proceed next. He doesn't need another two Czechoslovakias,
so he may well skip Sweden and Finland.

John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Wed, 18 May 2022 02:06 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:53:04 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> ...
> > Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
> > to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
> > business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
> > that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
> > shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
> > suppose, from a different viewpoint.
> >
> > John Savard
> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>
> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>
> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
> them deal with it.”

Russia is a threat to the US, and all countries that respect democracy and the
rule of law. Russia clearly interfered in the 2016 and 2020 elections, and seems
to have supported Brexit, and the various extreme right movements in Europe..

Putin regards Western values as anathema, and tries at every turn to sow division
and extremist hate.

Russia delenda est.

Pt

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Wed, 18 May 2022 02:33 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:44:52 PM UTC-6, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> Second, if Trump hadn't spent four years trying to undermine and
>> dismantle NATO there is a good chance that Russia wouldn't have invaded
>> Ukraine. Being part of a strong alliance is a way to AVOID wars.
>
>If George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, *and* Joe Biden hadn't
>done the obvious - and gotten Ukraine admitted to NATO after Russia proved
>that it was a threat to its freedom by invading first Crimea, and then Donetsk
>and Luhansk - *then* Russia indeed would not have been likely to have invaded
>Ukraine.
>
>And this is not just hindsight. I've posted several times about this before
>the current invasion of Ukraine, and J. Clarke replied in a contradictory manner,
>and is even now refusing to admit that I was right and he was wrong.

Please link these posts.

>As it is, Georgia and Ukraine are the "Czechoslovakia" with which the resolve
>of the U.S. and the West was tested - if Putin assumes it is weak enough for
>his purposes, Estonia is a name that keeps coming up as the "Poland" to
>which he will proceed next. He doesn't need another two Czechoslovakias,
>so he may well skip Sweden and Finland.
>
>John Savard

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<t61p7g$rur$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 22:29:50 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Wed, 18 May 2022 03:29 UTC

On 5/17/2022 7:45 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 4:57 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties
>>>>> that seem
>>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out
>>>>> of the
>>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>
>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>>>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>>>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>>
>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>
>>> No, it isn't.
>>
>> That is a very expansive answer.  Why not ?
>>
>> Let's send your kids then.  Mine went to Iraq already.  Twice.  He was
>> smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that.
>> He and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>> volunteering skills during that talk.
>>
>> He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from
>> Lance Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four
>> year active duty.  By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they
>> can now call him up for wartime duty until he is 45.  He is now 38.
>>
>> After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and
>> had to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with
>> the Corps.  Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer.
>> His answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq.  He had to
>> shoot the Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on
>> blue incident).
>>
> First, all the Middle East adventures weren't NATO.
>
> Second, if Trump hadn't spent four years trying to undermine and
> dismantle NATO there is a good chance that Russia wouldn't have invaded
> Ukraine.  Being part of a strong alliance is a way to AVOID wars.

Wrong. Both Iraq and Afghanistan were NATO joint ventures. The
British, French, Canadians, and others sent troops in because the USA
invoked the NATO treaty. Not as many as the USA did but they did send
troops. Shoot, Britain even sent a royal grandchild under an assumed name.

I still say, lets send your kids to the next NATO joint venture,
probably Ukraine or Finland. I have already sent mine.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=73733&group=rec.arts.sf.written#73733

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 22:31:02 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Wed, 18 May 2022 03:31 UTC

On 5/17/2022 8:19 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:57:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that
>>>>> seem
>>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>
>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>>>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>>>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>>
>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>
>>> No, it isn't.
>>
>> That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>>
>> Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
>> smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
>> and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>> volunteering skills during that talk.
>>
>> He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from Lance
>> Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four year
>> active duty. By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they can now
>> call him up for wartime duty until he is 45. He is now 38.
>>
>> After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and had
>> to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with the
>> Corps. Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer. His
>> answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq. He had to shoot the
>> Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on blue incident).
>
> What does any of that have to do with the US belonging to NATO? Are
> you under the mistaken impression that those wars happened because a
> NATO member invoked the NATO treaty rather than because Shrub didn't
> think his dick was big enough?

Both Iraq and Afghanistan were NATO joint ventures. The British,
French, Canadians, and others sent troops in because the USA invoked the
NATO treaty. Not as many as the USA did but they did send troops.
Shoot, Britain even sent a royal grandchild under an assumed name.

I still say, lets send your kids to the next NATO joint venture,
probably Ukraine or Finland. I have already sent mine.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: tkoe...@netcologne.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 06:18:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: news.netcologne.de
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 by: Thomas Koenig - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:18 UTC

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On 5/17/2022 8:19 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:57:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that
>>>>>> seem
>>>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>
>>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>>
>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the
>>>>> United States. As for any threat that it poses to its European
>>>>> neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>>
>>>> No, it isn't.
>>>
>>> That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>>>
>>> Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
>>> smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
>>> and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>>> volunteering skills during that talk.
>>>
>>> He paid for that by getting his promotion to Corporal (USMC) from Lance
>>> Corporal delayed for a year, the day after he finished his four year
>>> active duty. By promoting him to non-commissioned officer, they can now
>>> call him up for wartime duty until he is 45. He is now 38.
>>>
>>> After his four years of inactive reserve duty, he was activated and had
>>> to explain to a Marine Corps General why he was not reupping with the
>>> Corps. Marine Corp Generals do not readily take no for answer. His
>>> answer was two of his buddies were killed in Iraq. He had to shoot the
>>> Iraqi soldier who killed his buddy in their FOB (green on blue incident).
>>
>> What does any of that have to do with the US belonging to NATO? Are
>> you under the mistaken impression that those wars happened because a
>> NATO member invoked the NATO treaty rather than because Shrub didn't
>> think his dick was big enough?
>
> Both Iraq and Afghanistan were NATO joint ventures.

Iraq wasn't. Germany famously refused.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Message-ID: <0m498hl77mm3nocoon38ia6riarg5vekek@4ax.com>
References: <babc2dfb-e2d9-4e5a-8610-cce93844f489n@googlegroups.com> <StIgK.12813$pqKf.7736@fx12.iad> <34p78h1qhllcidd2u1li5ecq5dvur8e074@4ax.com> <d17933ef-d15c-408f-bb65-52db0338a7fan@googlegroups.com> <GQTgK.19870$L_b6.9340@fx33.iad>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:32 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:46:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:10:16 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:51:14 GMT, Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:41:22 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> Apparently according to that site there are 63000 people in the US
>>> with my first name and 4800 with my last name and 1 person with both.
>>> Since I am not >IN< the United States well he ain't me.
>>>
>>> I'd be curious knowing where he is and possibly getting in contact but
>>> that's unlikely and have Googled my name several times and never found
>>> reference to whoever he is. (Whereas I am involved in several things
>>> that the Google engine scoops up and indexes)
>>
>>Don't trust the site. It says I don't exist. 642,077 with my first name,
>>163 with my last, and 0 with both.
>
>Check back in a couple of days, maybe that's how they populate their database.

Well again the site does say IN THE UNITED STATES and since I'm not
that one person must be someone else.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 18 May 2022 13:46 UTC

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>
>> No, it isn't.
>
>That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>
>Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
>smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
>and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>volunteering skills during that talk.

Lynn, Iraq had nothing to do with NATO. That was the US GOP that invaded IRAQ
specifically Dick and George after lying through their teeth about the
causes belli.

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