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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsCharles Packer
|+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
|||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
||||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
|||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsTony Nance
||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThomas Koenig
|`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsKevrob
+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsRobert Carnegie
|`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
| `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | || `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |||   |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | |||   |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |||    `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |||     `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||| +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| ||| |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| ||| `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | ||| |||  `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| || `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||  +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| ||    |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsNinapenda Jibini
 | ||| ||    | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||    |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| ||    |   +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||    |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| ||    |    `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | ||| ||    |     +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| ||    |     |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | ||| ||    |     `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||| ||    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 | ||| | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |   |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||| |   | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| |   | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| |   |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
 | ||| |   |   `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| |   +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | ||| |   | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| |    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||| +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | ||| +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | ||| `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsKevrob
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | |||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | ||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | | +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThomas Koenig
 | | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | | |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsLynn McGuire
 | | | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 | | |+- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | | |`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | | `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston
 | |  `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDimensional Traveler
 | |   `* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |    `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsThe Horny Goat
 | +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | |+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||+* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsScott Lurndal
 | |||`- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
 | ||`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsPaul S Person
 | |`* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsChris Buckley
 | `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsJ. Clarke
 +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 +- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsQuadibloc
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootingspete...@gmail.com
 +* Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsAlan
 `- Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass ShootingsDavid Johnston

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Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:56 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 17:21:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/18/2022 4:29 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t63no6$c1e$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>
>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>
>B-52s at 40,000 feet and a few CIA officers on the ground destroyed the
>warlords in Afghanistan after 9/11. That worked fine, we should have
>stayed with it.
>
>Of course, Osama Bin Laden turned up in Pakistan later and we took care
>of him and his family. And we did not invade Pakistan nor did we
>overturn its government.

Of course not, they have nuclear weapons.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:57 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> > I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>
>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>
>Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had anything to
>do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda, eh?".
>
>They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then, the Taliban
>were the guys running the place.

And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been very
effective in destroying them.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:00 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 7:07:14 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:t63tu9$tc$1...@dont-email.me:
> > On 5/18/2022 4:34 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:t63ois$qp6$2...@dont-email.me:
> >>
> >>> On 5/17/2022 6:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> >>>> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both*
> >>>>>> parties that seem to think George Washington was right, and
> >>>>>> America should stay out of the business of defending
> >>>>>> freedom beyond its own borders. One would think that the
> >>>>>> experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
> >>>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be
> >>>>>> drawn, I suppose, from a different viewpoint.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John Savard
> >>>>>
> >>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-t
> >>>>> o- finland-159385
> >>>>>
> >>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the
> >>>>> Cold War ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not
> >>>>> threaten the United States. As for any threat that it poses
> >>>>> to its European neighbors, let them deal with it.”
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
> >>>>
> >>>> And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back
> >>>> there but without the forward basing and commonality of
> >>>> systems and coordinated doctrine that we have now.
> >>>
> >>> We already fought WWI and WWII in Europe. We, the USA, need
> >>> to sit this one out and let those people defend themselves.
> >>
> >> The Ukranians seem to be doing a pretty good job of it so far.
> >
> > They are doing amazingly well. Much better than I hoped.
> I'm less surprised than many people than the Russian military is a
> paper tiger, long past its prime. The Soviets never did have the
> kind of robust military infrastructure the west has (and
> totalitarianism brutally suppresses initiative, which is a key
> element of it), and things have . . . not been well maintained
> since the breakup.
> > Of
> > course, the country has been totally trashed which may have been
> > Putin's goal all along.
> No, Putin's goal is empire building. Given the hints of a serious
> health issue, he may be thinking of what legacy he'll leave. If so,
> he'll be bitterly disappointed.

Putin's minimal goal appears to be to make the Russian homeland
'safe' from invasion. Russia sits in a vast plane, and has been invaded
many, many times. Fear of invasion is deeply rooted in Russian
strategic thought.

Historically, the only times its been more or less safe is when its had
hegemony over neighboring countries, creating buffers that had to
be crossed, and block most of the approach routes - the Baltics, Finland, the
north European plane (block at Poland), the BesArabian gap (block
at Georgia) etc.

If Ukraine is in 'enemy' hands, Moscow is only 260 miles from the border.
If Russia controls out through Poland, its well over 1000.

pt

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:02 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 03:09:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 06:11:13 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:21:35 PM UTC-6, Chris Buckley wrote:
>>
>> > You do realize that Bill Clinton supported the war declaration and has
>> > stated that Bush went to war out of a genuine belief that large quantities
>> > of weapons of mass destruction remain unaccounted for.
>> I didn't know that.
>>
>> I simply thought that while the CIA told Bush that it believed that Saddam
>> Hussein _probably_ didn't have any WMDs, they had also admitted they
>> weren't 100% sure of that. Given that Saddam Hussein _was_ known to be
>> obstructing the work of UN weapons inspectors at the time - I saw it on CNN
>> just before Bush ordered the invasion - Bush made the decision that even a
>> slight risk of Saddam Hussein having WMDs was an intolerable risk.
>>
>> Which is certainly a very reasonable decision, say, from the point of view of
>> anyone living in Israel.
>
>My take is that Bill Clinton was onboard to slaughter
>foreign Muslims needlessly, or just about any other
>foreigners, when his political career called for him to
>take that stance. As are most U.S. politicians.
>
>In this, I think that I know better than Bill Clinton, morally.
>But if I was in line maybe to be President, I guess I'd
>be weighing the importance of having moral principles,
>versus not having principles but being President.
>I hope I'd still stick to principles. But what shall it profit
>a man? Plenty.

Bill Clinton left office and politics on January 20, 2001. He wasn't
"in line to be President", he had already served the two terms that
were allowed him by the Constitution.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:04 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:29:57 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/18/2022 10:48 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:vfd88hdcdcv32hlg67qp7v04tde6qihvsk@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both*
>>>>> parties that seem to think George Washington was right, and
>>>>> America should stay out of the business of defending freedom
>>>>> beyond its own borders. One would think that the experience of
>>>>> two World Wars and the Cold War would have shown why this is
>>>>> mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I suppose, from
>>>>> a different viewpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>
>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-fi
>>>> nland-159385
>>>>
>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the
>>>> Cold War ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not
>>>> threaten the United States. As for any threat that it poses to
>>>> its European neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>>
>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>
>>> And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back
>>> there but without the forward basing and commonality of systems
>>> and coordinated doctrine that we have now.
>>>
>> I can predict Lynn's response to that:
>>
>> "Why would we care about the EU? What have they done for us (or,
>> rather, me, personally) lately?"
>
>You do realize that we are probably headed to USA peacekeepers in the
>Ukraine.

Why? Ukraine seems to be doing a fine job and if the USA went in
without their consent they'd likely fight us just as hard as they're
fighting the Russians.

>My agent in Russia told me that he was going to take his family and
>leave four weeks ago, probably to Germany. He has not gotten back to me
>yet so I have no idea if he made it out or has been arrested.

If he told you he was leaving then it's almost certain that he's been
arrested. If he wasn't using an encrypted line of communication the
KGB (or whatever it's called today) knew before you did. If he was
using one he got arrested for that.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<jlqc8h5m665vrp8g98426mlcr6utufrlvf@4ax.com>

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:05 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:31:08 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/17/2022 6:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>
>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>
>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
>>> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
>>> them deal with it.”
>>>
>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>
>> And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back there but
>> without the forward basing and commonality of systems and coordinated
>> doctrine that we have now.
>
>We already fought WWI and WWII in Europe. We, the USA, need to sit this
>one out and let those people defend themselves.

And after Russia controls the entirety of Europe then what?

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:42 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 15:38:38 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:t63rhs$jt6$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 5/18/2022 4:29 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a
>>> safe haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>
>> B-52s at 40,000 feet and a few CIA officers on the ground
>> destroyed the warlords in Afghanistan after 9/11.
>
>Then why were they ongoing attacks the entire time we were in the
>country, and how did they have enough resources to retake control
>even as we were pulling out?
>
>> That worked
>> fine, we should have stayed with it.
>
>No, it really didn't. These people have lifetimes of experience at
>avoiding anything remotely like a conventional warfare attack.
>
>That kind of approach just pisses them off, and encourages *more*
>terror attacks. On US soil.
>>
>> Of course, Osama Bin Laden turned up in Pakistan later and we
>> took care of him and his family. And we did not invade Pakistan
>> nor did we overturn its government.
>>
>And the Taliban picked a new leader and kept on attacking. And
>retook control of the country before our last plane took off.
>
>You really are a dense as Quaddie.

Not to doubt your narrative or your conclusions, but

-- the Taliban was the government in Afghanistan that was shielding
Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Ladin
-- Osama was not "the leader of the Taliban"; he was the leader of
Al-Qaeda

Which doesn't affect your points, but accuracy would be appreciated.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 09:48:00 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:48 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 08:47:19 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>news:8N6hK.4308$NMxb.2283@fx02.iad:
>
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>>
>>>> No, it isn't.
>>>
>>>That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>>>
>>>Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice.
>>>He was smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan
>>>after that. He and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk
>>>about his lack of volunteering skills during that talk.
>>
>> Lynn, Iraq had nothing to do with NATO. That was the US GOP
>> that invaded IRAQ specifically Dick and George after lying
>> through their teeth about the causes belli.
>>
>I'm more of the opinion they were lied *to* by intelligence people
>who were too eager to please, and believed (at the time, at least)
>what they were saying.

I guess you missed the part where Vice President Halliburton (a wholly
owned subidiary of the corporation) /hand-picked/ the Intel he wanted
to see and ignored the actual analysts conclusions.

>Much like how Putin got involved in the clusterfuck that is UkraIne.

I think Putin deluded himself. And is still doing so.

I wonder if he has started moving nonexistent armies around yet?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:52 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:unsc8hdrv2oaaugggf98njk0f6j8b19glj@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 18 May 2022 15:38:38 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:t63rhs$jt6$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 5/18/2022 4:29 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing
>>>> a safe haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>
>>> B-52s at 40,000 feet and a few CIA officers on the ground
>>> destroyed the warlords in Afghanistan after 9/11.
>>
>>Then why were they ongoing attacks the entire time we were in
>>the country, and how did they have enough resources to retake
>>control even as we were pulling out?
>>
>>> That worked
>>> fine, we should have stayed with it.
>>
>>No, it really didn't. These people have lifetimes of experience
>>at avoiding anything remotely like a conventional warfare
>>attack.
>>
>>That kind of approach just pisses them off, and encourages
>>*more* terror attacks. On US soil.
>>>
>>> Of course, Osama Bin Laden turned up in Pakistan later and we
>>> took care of him and his family. And we did not invade
>>> Pakistan nor did we overturn its government.
>>>
>>And the Taliban picked a new leader and kept on attacking. And
>>retook control of the country before our last plane took off.
>>
>>You really are a dense as Quaddie.
>
> Not to doubt your narrative or your conclusions, but
>
> -- the Taliban was the government in Afghanistan that was
> shielding Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Ladin

They really weren't different groups.

> -- Osama was not "the leader of the Taliban"; he was the leader
> of Al-Qaeda
>
> Which doesn't affect your points, but accuracy would be
> appreciated.

Heh. Coming from you, I can only assume you're failing at stand up
comedy, like you fail at everything else.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<XnsAE9C6503CF6C6taustingmail@85.12.62.232>

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:55 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:v1tc8h9p4iq13ch1q1eeslmm15blihvreq@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 18 May 2022 08:47:19 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>news:8N6hK.4308$NMxb.2283@fx02.iad:
>>
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>>>
>>>>> No, it isn't.
>>>>
>>>>That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>>>>
>>>>Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice.
>>>>He was smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to
>>>>Afghanistan after that. He and his First Sergeant had a four
>>>>hour talk about his lack of volunteering skills during that
>>>>talk.
>>>
>>> Lynn, Iraq had nothing to do with NATO. That was the US GOP
>>> that invaded IRAQ specifically Dick and George after lying
>>> through their teeth about the causes belli.
>>>
>>I'm more of the opinion they were lied *to* by intelligence
>>people who were too eager to please, and believed (at the time,
>>at least) what they were saying.
>
> I guess you missed the part where Vice President Halliburton (a
> wholly owned subidiary of the corporation) /hand-picked/ the
> Intel he wanted to see and ignored the actual analysts
> conclusions.

And? That such intel was available *to* pick was a failure of the
intelligence community.
>
>>Much like how Putin got involved in the clusterfuck that is
>>UkraIne.
>
> I think Putin deluded himself. And is still doing so.

And deluding the Russian public, though they're starting to wise
up. His days are numbered.
>
> I wonder if he has started moving nonexistent armies around yet?

I suspect he has been all along. I'm increasinly convinced that the
progapanda machine has stopped trying to convince the public of
anything, and is concentrating on convincing Putin to do every
crazier things to speed up his being ousted (and probably killed).
That, and convince him to not just have them all killed now.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

<iitc8h9osbj0c02b6v9ifemg097a86sqrg@4ax.com>

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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:58 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:06:13 PM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Russia delenda est.
>
>I agree emotionally with the sentiment. (Although not the quote. Rome was
>an *aggressor nation* against Carthage.)
>
>But Russia has nukes, so no one can destroy it. Instead, just as during the
>long decades of the Cold War, we must remain eternally vigilant, with all
>the free countries of the world united so that Russia cannot claim another
>inch of territory.
>
>We failed to do this in Ukraine. We must not fail again.
>
>The appropriate step for the moment is: the United States, Canada, and
>indeed all the members of NATO other than Turkey, should send troops to
>the borders of Sweden and Finland with Russia, with the permission of those
>countries, signing bilateral treaties with Sweden and Finland so as to give
>them the _equivalent_ of full Article 5 protection even if they are never able
>to join NATO.

Or NATO could just eject Turkey, which (under Erdogan) wants to occupy
a mediating position between Russia and the West anyway and has
purchased a Russian AA system capable of providing telemetry on NATO's
next-gen fighter, which Turkey is no longer a participant in creating
(if I have remembered all that correctly), and admit Sweden and
Finland.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:00 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 20:26:05 -0700, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-05-17 3:52 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> ...
>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>
>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>
>>
>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
>> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
>> them deal with it.”
>>
>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>
>> Lynn
>
>Yeah...
>
>...you are the kind of guy who would abandon his allies.

He's a Friend of Putin/Russian Propagandist.

But aside from that, he appears to be quite reasonable.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:11 UTC

On 5/19/2022 10:56 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 17:21:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2022 4:29 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>
>> B-52s at 40,000 feet and a few CIA officers on the ground destroyed the
>> warlords in Afghanistan after 9/11. That worked fine, we should have
>> stayed with it.
>>
>> Of course, Osama Bin Laden turned up in Pakistan later and we took care
>> of him and his family. And we did not invade Pakistan nor did we
>> overturn its government.
>
> Of course not, they have nuclear weapons.

But Pakistan does not have ICBMs. That is an even more exclusive club.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:13 UTC

On 5/19/2022 10:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>
>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>
>> Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had anything to
>> do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda, eh?".
>>
>> They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then, the Taliban
>> were the guys running the place.
>
> And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been very
> effective in destroying them.

The B-52s took out the warlord armies so that our CIA guys could roam
the country as needed.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:15 UTC

On 5/19/2022 11:02 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 03:09:07 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 19 May 2022 at 06:11:13 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:21:35 PM UTC-6, Chris Buckley wrote:
>>>
>>>> You do realize that Bill Clinton supported the war declaration and has
>>>> stated that Bush went to war out of a genuine belief that large quantities
>>>> of weapons of mass destruction remain unaccounted for.
>>> I didn't know that.
>>>
>>> I simply thought that while the CIA told Bush that it believed that Saddam
>>> Hussein _probably_ didn't have any WMDs, they had also admitted they
>>> weren't 100% sure of that. Given that Saddam Hussein _was_ known to be
>>> obstructing the work of UN weapons inspectors at the time - I saw it on CNN
>>> just before Bush ordered the invasion - Bush made the decision that even a
>>> slight risk of Saddam Hussein having WMDs was an intolerable risk.
>>>
>>> Which is certainly a very reasonable decision, say, from the point of view of
>>> anyone living in Israel.
>>
>> My take is that Bill Clinton was onboard to slaughter
>> foreign Muslims needlessly, or just about any other
>> foreigners, when his political career called for him to
>> take that stance. As are most U.S. politicians.
>>
>> In this, I think that I know better than Bill Clinton, morally.
>> But if I was in line maybe to be President, I guess I'd
>> be weighing the importance of having moral principles,
>> versus not having principles but being President.
>> I hope I'd still stick to principles. But what shall it profit
>> a man? Plenty.
>
> Bill Clinton left office and politics on January 20, 2001. He wasn't
> "in line to be President", he had already served the two terms that
> were allowed him by the Constitution.

He was still read in on national defense. All former presidents are.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:16 UTC

On 5/19/2022 11:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:29:57 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2022 10:48 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:vfd88hdcdcv32hlg67qp7v04tde6qihvsk@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both*
>>>>>> parties that seem to think George Washington was right, and
>>>>>> America should stay out of the business of defending freedom
>>>>>> beyond its own borders. One would think that the experience of
>>>>>> two World Wars and the Cold War would have shown why this is
>>>>>> mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I suppose, from
>>>>>> a different viewpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>
>>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>>
>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-fi
>>>>> nland-159385
>>>>>
>>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the
>>>>> Cold War ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not
>>>>> threaten the United States. As for any threat that it poses to
>>>>> its European neighbors, let them deal with it.”
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>
>>>> And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back
>>>> there but without the forward basing and commonality of systems
>>>> and coordinated doctrine that we have now.
>>>>
>>> I can predict Lynn's response to that:
>>>
>>> "Why would we care about the EU? What have they done for us (or,
>>> rather, me, personally) lately?"
>>
>> You do realize that we are probably headed to USA peacekeepers in the
>> Ukraine.
>
> Why? Ukraine seems to be doing a fine job and if the USA went in
> without their consent they'd likely fight us just as hard as they're
> fighting the Russians.
>
>> My agent in Russia told me that he was going to take his family and
>> leave four weeks ago, probably to Germany. He has not gotten back to me
>> yet so I have no idea if he made it out or has been arrested.
>
> If he told you he was leaving then it's almost certain that he's been
> arrested. If he wasn't using an encrypted line of communication the
> KGB (or whatever it's called today) knew before you did. If he was
> using one he got arrested for that.

I hope not but I thought about that too.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Ross Presser - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:20 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 2:15:35 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 5/19/2022 11:02 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > Bill Clinton left office and politics on January 20, 2001. He wasn't
> > "in line to be President", he had already served the two terms that
> > were allowed him by the Constitution.
> He was still read in on national defense. All former presidents are.

Donald J. Trump is not. He wasn't even interested in briefings
while he was in office; now that he's out, he gets no briefings.

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:20 UTC

On 5/19/2022 11:05 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:31:08 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2022 6:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 17:52:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/16/2022 11:41 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Not that there aren't Americans on the fringe in *both* parties that seem
>>>>> to think George Washington was right, and America should stay out of the
>>>>> business of defending freedom beyond its own borders. One would think
>>>>> that the experience of two World Wars and the Cold War would have
>>>>> shown why this is mistaken... but other inferences can be drawn, I
>>>>> suppose, from a different viewpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> “Why Would US Give a War Guarantee — to Finland?”
>>>>
>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/why-would-us-give-a-war-guarantee-to-finland-159385
>>>>
>>>> “A basic question needs answering: Why, 30 years after the Cold War
>>>> ended, are we still expanding NATO? Russia does not threaten the United
>>>> States. As for any threat that it poses to its European neighbors, let
>>>> them deal with it.”
>>>>
>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>
>>> And then the Russians start digesting the EU and we're back there but
>>> without the forward basing and commonality of systems and coordinated
>>> doctrine that we have now.
>>
>> We already fought WWI and WWII in Europe. We, the USA, need to sit this
>> one out and let those people defend themselves.
>
> And after Russia controls the entirety of Europe then what?

Not our war. Europe needs to defend itself.

You know, when we dropped our army strength in West Germany from 300,000
??? to less than 100,000 in 1995, we effectively left anyway. There is
enough left for a good wienie roast and that is it.
https://theconversation.com/the-us-military-presence-in-europe-has-been-declining-for-30-years-the-current-crisis-in-ukraine-may-reverse-that-trend-175595

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:38 UTC

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t661bj$k43$5@dont-email.me:

> On 5/19/2022 10:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>
>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing
>>>> a safe haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>
>>> Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had
>>> anything to do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda,
>>> eh?".
>>>
>>> They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then,
>>> the Taliban were the guys running the place.
>>
>> And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been
>> very effective in destroying them.
>
> The B-52s took out the warlord armies so that our CIA guys could
> roam the country as needed.
>
Which stopped how many terror attacks? Zero.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: 19 May 2022 18:50:34 GMT
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 by: Chris Buckley - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:50 UTC

On 2022-05-19, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:21:35 PM UTC-6, Chris Buckley wrote:
>
>> You do realize that Bill Clinton supported the war declaration and has
>> stated that Bush went to war out of a genuine belief that large quantities
>> of weapons of mass destruction remain unaccounted for.
>
> I didn't know that.
>
> I simply thought that while the CIA told Bush that it believed that Saddam
> Hussein _probably_ didn't have any WMDs, they had also admitted they
> weren't 100% sure of that. Given that Saddam Hussein _was_ known to be
> obstructing the work of UN weapons inspectors at the time - I saw it on CNN
> just before Bush ordered the invasion - Bush made the decision that even a
> slight risk of Saddam Hussein having WMDs was an intolerable risk.
>
> Which is certainly a very reasonable decision, say, from the point of view of
> anyone living in Israel.

Sorry, John, that's simply another conspiracy theory - I would have thought you
read enough to know better.

There were no doubts expressed by any of the intelligence agencies (US,
British and allies) that Iraq had some WMDS.

There was complete agreement on Iraq having chemical WMDS.

There was strong belief in Oct 2002 (date of the massive intelligence
report that the war was basically based on) that Iraq had an active
biological WMD program. What they didn't realize was that most of the
"independent" confirmation of this was rooted in a single undercover
agent who they began to have suspicions of before the war started in
March, 2003.

There was belief that Iraq had a nuclear WMD program. This is the one
that there was substantial disagreement among the agencies that was
never made public at the time. But note that Bush himself never
claimed that Iraq had a nuclear program - he merely said it was
unknown whether it was a danger. (Others did, eg Kerry said in Oct
2002 that "All US intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking
nuclear weapons.")

There is no indication anywhere that Bush lied about WMDs.

Robb-Silberman Commission (US investigation):
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/wmd/report/report.html#overview

Discussion of Chilcot report (British investigation):
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/spy-agencies-flawed-information-saddam-wmds-iraq-chilcot

Chris

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 13:55:23 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:55 UTC

On 5/19/2022 1:38 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:t661bj$k43$5@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 5/19/2022 10:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing
>>>>> a safe haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>>
>>>> Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had
>>>> anything to do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda,
>>>> eh?".
>>>>
>>>> They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then,
>>>> the Taliban were the guys running the place.
>>>
>>> And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been
>>> very effective in destroying them.
>>
>> The B-52s took out the warlord armies so that our CIA guys could
>> roam the country as needed.
>>
> Which stopped how many terror attacks? Zero.

That was not the mission. The mission was to kill Osama Bin Laden.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: Chris Buckley - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:58 UTC

On 2022-05-19, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-18 8:21 p.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>> On 2022-05-18, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 5/17/2022 6:24 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>> On 5/17/2022 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> It is time for the USA to leave NATO.
>>>>>>
>>>>> No, it isn't.
>>>>
>>>> That is a very expansive answer. Why not ?
>>>>
>>>> Let's send your kids then. Mine went to Iraq already. Twice. He was
>>>> smart enough to refuse to volunteer to go to Afghanistan after that. He
>>>> and his First Sergeant had a four hour talk about his lack of
>>>> volunteering skills during that talk.
>>>
>>> Lynn, Iraq had nothing to do with NATO. That was the US GOP that invaded IRAQ
>>> specifically Dick and George after lying through their teeth about the
>>> causes belli.
>>
>> You do realize that Bill Clinton supported the war declaration and has
>> stated that Bush went to war out of a genuine belief that large quantities
>> of weapons of mass destruction remain unaccounted for.
>
> Have you got the cites for those claims?

Of course, Alan - I would think you would know that by now.

https://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/
Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that
Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out
of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass
destruction remained unaccounted for.

Chris

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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From: jclarke....@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:56 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 13:11:53 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/19/2022 10:56 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 17:21:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/18/2022 4:29 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>>>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>
>>> B-52s at 40,000 feet and a few CIA officers on the ground destroyed the
>>> warlords in Afghanistan after 9/11. That worked fine, we should have
>>> stayed with it.
>>>
>>> Of course, Osama Bin Laden turned up in Pakistan later and we took care
>>> of him and his family. And we did not invade Pakistan nor did we
>>> overturn its government.
>>
>> Of course not, they have nuclear weapons.
>
>But Pakistan does not have ICBMs. That is an even more exclusive club.

They have nuclear capable submarine launched cruise missiles
>
>Lynn

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Subject: Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:57 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 13:13:06 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/19/2022 10:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>
>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing a safe
>>>> haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>
>>> Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had anything to
>>> do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda, eh?".
>>>
>>> They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then, the Taliban
>>> were the guys running the place.
>>
>> And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been very
>> effective in destroying them.
>
>The B-52s took out the warlord armies so that our CIA guys could roam
>the country as needed.

Ok, tell us on what date a B-52 strike "took out" a "warlord army".

Re: [OT] Two Recent Mass Shootings

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Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 15:58:11 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:58 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 13:55:23 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/19/2022 1:38 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t661bj$k43$5@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2022 10:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:29:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
>>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:t63no6$c1e$1...@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no idea why GWB moved troops into Afghanistan.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Couldn't possibly have had anything to do with them providing
>>>>>> a safe haven for the Taliban, eh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Minor typo. No doubt you meant "Couldn't possibly have had
>>>>> anything to do with them providing a safe haven for al-Qaeda,
>>>>> eh?".
>>>>>
>>>>> They weren't providing a _haven_ for the Taliban; back then,
>>>>> the Taliban were the guys running the place.
>>>>
>>>> And still are, so Lynn's B-52 strikes don't seem to have been
>>>> very effective in destroying them.
>>>
>>> The B-52s took out the warlord armies so that our CIA guys could
>>> roam the country as needed.
>>>
>> Which stopped how many terror attacks? Zero.
>
>That was not the mission. The mission was to kill Osama Bin Laden.

Please state your source for that statement.

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