For those who don't know, officially, "childfree" means that you don't WANT children - AND you never, ever change your mind or have them by accident.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6546882/

People who DO change their minds are referred to as "former fence-sitters." (Of course, those who wanted children but couldn't have or afford them are called "childless.")

And, while no one in the documentary says this in so many words, it doesn't make sense for naysayers to argue that the childfree will regret their decision when they're old. Why? Because, as a blogger once said (not verbatim), "how can there be any truly regretful LONGING for something that was never, until now, a desire?"

I.e., if, when you're 60, you suddenly want children to play with, all that really means is, you want the fun without the work. That's not real regret.. Men who push women to have children but then abandon them after a year or two clearly didn't really want children either.

In the same vein, many people like average-style mountain-climbing, but even those people don't usually regret NOT climbing Mount Everest, because it's so much more dangerous and expensive than climbing some mountain that isn't even nationally famous. Does anyone try to argue that they WILL regret not climbing Everest? No.

Another thing that would have been nice to hear in the movie: "If having children is supposed to be so rewarding, how is it selfish to FORFEIT those rewards?"

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good documentary - it was even thoughtful and sensitive enough to include the awful history of eugenics. But at the same time, it pointed out that women of color who don't want ANY children exist, too. Not just white childfree women.

What's odd is that there are four critics' reviews - but no user reviews!

Also see "To Kid or Not to Kid."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6941872/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_to%2520kid%2520o

Lenona <lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Also see "To Kid or Not to Kid."

RT's "Kidless" -- https://rumble.com/v33tqiv-kidless-rt-documentary.html -- also
covers the same topic.

Thanks.

Btw, critic Ray Lobo wrote this, in his review of MS-CSL:

"If there is one critique, it is that in her attempt to be brisk, Shechter leaves out three huge reasons why many nowadays do not want to have children. Some do not want children because they feel that the U.S. does not provide enough maternity leave and childcare overall, while others notice that their financial future is not as rosy as it was for their parents and grandparents. Finally, climate catastrophe is seen as unavoidable and women question whether it is prudent to bring children into such a bleak future. One wishes the director would have given some attention to these concerns."

Well, I don't. After all, if those significant problems didn't exist, chances are those particular women would be mothers or fence sitters! I.e., they're likely actually childless. Not childfree.

In other words, the documentary is about why women shouldn't NEED any excuses to turn away from parenthood. Just as no one should need an excuse not to become a surgeon or a ditch-digger - or to choose the career or spouse that one's PARENTS try to order the child to choose.

Also, here's an exchange I had elsewhere, exactly one year ago (forgive the length; the first three paragraphs are the most important):

TheVidiot "I never knew there was a forum just for child free people. I didn't even know it was needed."

Me: Well, if you're lucky enough - as I am - to live in a community where people actually mind their own business and understand that even very young people have a right to privacy, you DON'T need such forums, as a rule. (When you think about it, parents shouldn't even ask their adult child "when are you going to start looking for a spouse?" There are all sorts of reasons why that's not a polite question.)

But unfortunately, many - most? - people at Bratfree do not live in such communities. Many come from very conservative or religious backgrounds and wish they didn't. Same goes for many members of the childfree sub at Reddit. They would be only too happy to talk to their friends, relatives, neighbors and co-workers about what they ARE doing with their lives instead of about what they're not doing - if only those other people didn't keep trying to shame or guilt-trip them for not having children.

Ten beliefs and facts about the childfree, from 2007 or earlier:

https://asylums.insanejournal.com/childfree/424.html?mode=reply

Excerpt:

Belief: "So Childfree people don't want kids - we get that, but it's not necessary to be so 'activist' about it."

Truth: "It is, actually. We network, we share information on doctors who don't make us jump through hoops and undergo psychological testing and still stay 'sorry, won't do it' (sterilization), no matter what. We share information on birth control, we share frustration with others who understand and have been there - at being told we'll 'change our minds', or nagging in-laws, or getting told by a spouse after five years of marriage that they want children and that's that. We vent about not being allowed time off of work to care for infirm parents or roommates, when coworkers can frequently take off as much as they want to run their kids to soccer practice, and dump the rest of the workload on us. We vent about taxes, about lack of social services and help available for those without children, and at how baby-centric society has become - and it has. Haven't you ever personally experienced the relief and pleasure of being able to congregate and converse with people of like minds? If your whole family and most of your friends followed one political party that did not match your views, how would you feel if you met a group of people who do share your outlook on things, and you can talk to without getting yelled at or told you're crazy? It's no different here."
__________________________________________

And, if you search in Google News on "childfree" - don't forget the quotation marks - you'll find articles about a recent study in Michigan from "Scientific Reports" that says that over 20% of young American adults do not want children - and likely won't change their minds.

So, if true, that's going to affect the courtship scene quite a bit, as more people will have to be upfront about whether or not they want children, not act as though the other person's statements can be ignored, and decide early as to whether to keep dating or not, so as to save time and respect other people's feelings and boundaries.

Not to mention that the overturn of Roe v. Wade has caused a HUGE surge in sterilizations, which has prompted the media to point out that people who want NEVER to have children actually exist - and that 60% of the women who sought abortions in the past already HAD children.

Aside from the Michigan study, here's something else:

"Conservatives Are In For A Rude Awakening If They Think Banning Abortion Will Increase Birth Rates: History suggests they’re about to crash at unprecedented levels"

https://psychedelicsaremedicine.medium.com/conservatives-are-in-for-a-rude-awakening-if-they-think-banning-abortion-will-increase-birth-rates-4b5e2853b0de
(7 minute read)

Excerpt:

"...At another clinic in San Antonio, Ob-Gyn Michelle Muldrow described 'the number of women…requesting sterilization (as) unlike anything she has seen' in her entire career.

"It isn’t just women seeking out sterilization, driven by fear of losing their most essential of human rights. Many urologists have reported that vasectomy inquiries are also up, in some places by around 900%.

"Some of these patients already have kids, but many do not. And while a large chunk of the latter would probably consider themselves to be childfree, such a massive increase in inquiries and surgery appointments is certainly not driven solely by these individuals. What these stratospheric numbers suggest is that many fencesitters and people who formerly may have wanted biological kids are opting out completely and choosing to be sterilized, reasoning that it’s too risky to have them at all when they don’t have the right to choose when and how to have them. Others are rightfully terrified of dying from fatal complications of a wanted pregnancy, or being criminalized for a miscarriage.

"More people are opting out of sex, dating, and marriage all together.

"Many conservatives who loudly preach of the virtues of abstinence are going to find themselves shocked and disappointed when a lot of people start to take this to heart and do it long term, to the extent where it tanks marriage and birth rates..."
__________________________________________________________

Personally, I suspect that, given how an awful lot of anti-abortion people just want to keep poor people poor and easier to control (with a good deal of racism involved), they don't REALLY care that much about punishing women - of any age - for having sex without consequences; they just want to punish young people who are determined to stay out of poverty and keep in control of their own futures as individuals, whether through abortion, birth control, or abstinence. I.e., even singles in their 20s who don't even have sex lives get punished economically, as they'll tell you.

Sad to say, though, even liberals are not kind to MEN who shun both marriage and parenthood - liberals forget that if women have the right to be single and childfree, so do men. (And a lot of childfree men don't see any point in a marriage without children, but childfree women likely don't feel that way.)

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:29:33 AM UTC-4, Lenona wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> Btw, critic Ray Lobo wrote this, in his review of MS-CSL:
>
> "If there is one critique, it is that in her attempt to be brisk, Shechter leaves out three huge reasons why many nowadays do not want to have children. Some do not want children because they feel that the U.S. does not provide enough maternity leave and childcare overall, while others notice that their financial future is not as rosy as it was for their parents and grandparents. Finally, climate catastrophe is seen as unavoidable and women question whether it is prudent to bring children into such a bleak future. One wishes the director would have given some attention to these concerns."
>
>
> Well, I don't. After all, if those significant problems didn't exist, chances are those particular women would be mothers or fence sitters! I.e., they're likely actually childless. Not childfree.
>
> In other words, the documentary is about why women shouldn't NEED any excuses to turn away from parenthood. Just as no one should need an excuse not to become a surgeon or a ditch-digger - or to choose the career or spouse that one's PARENTS try to order the child to choose.
>
> Also, here's an exchange I had elsewhere, exactly one year ago (forgive the length; the first three paragraphs are the most important):
>
> TheVidiot "I never knew there was a forum just for child free people. I didn't even know it was needed."
>
> Me: Well, if you're lucky enough - as I am - to live in a community where people actually mind their own business and understand that even very young people have a right to privacy, you DON'T need such forums, as a rule. (When you think about it, parents shouldn't even ask their adult child "when are you going to start looking for a spouse?" There are all sorts of reasons why that's not a polite question.)
>
> But unfortunately, many - most? - people at Bratfree do not live in such communities. Many come from very conservative or religious backgrounds and wish they didn't. Same goes for many members of the childfree sub at Reddit.. They would be only too happy to talk to their friends, relatives, neighbors and co-workers about what they ARE doing with their lives instead of about what they're not doing - if only those other people didn't keep trying to shame or guilt-trip them for not having children.
>
>
> Ten beliefs and facts about the childfree, from 2007 or earlier:
>
> https://asylums.insanejournal.com/childfree/424.html?mode=reply
>
> Excerpt:
>
> Belief: "So Childfree people don't want kids - we get that, but it's not necessary to be so 'activist' about it."
>
> Truth: "It is, actually. We network, we share information on doctors who don't make us jump through hoops and undergo psychological testing and still stay 'sorry, won't do it' (sterilization), no matter what. We share information on birth control, we share frustration with others who understand and have been there - at being told we'll 'change our minds', or nagging in-laws, or getting told by a spouse after five years of marriage that they want children and that's that. We vent about not being allowed time off of work to care for infirm parents or roommates, when coworkers can frequently take off as much as they want to run their kids to soccer practice, and dump the rest of the workload on us. We vent about taxes, about lack of social services and help available for those without children, and at how baby-centric society has become - and it has. Haven't you ever personally experienced the relief and pleasure of being able to congregate and converse with people of like minds? If your whole family and most of your friends followed one political party that did not match your views, how would you feel if you met a group of people who do share your outlook on things, and you can talk to without getting yelled at or told you're crazy? It's no different here.."
> __________________________________________
>
> And, if you search in Google News on "childfree" - don't forget the quotation marks - you'll find articles about a recent study in Michigan from "Scientific Reports" that says that over 20% of young American adults do not want children - and likely won't change their minds.
>
> So, if true, that's going to affect the courtship scene quite a bit, as more people will have to be upfront about whether or not they want children, not act as though the other person's statements can be ignored, and decide early as to whether to keep dating or not, so as to save time and respect other people's feelings and boundaries.
>
> Not to mention that the overturn of Roe v. Wade has caused a HUGE surge in sterilizations, which has prompted the media to point out that people who want NEVER to have children actually exist - and that 60% of the women who sought abortions in the past already HAD children.
>
> Aside from the Michigan study, here's something else:
>
> "Conservatives Are In For A Rude Awakening If They Think Banning Abortion Will Increase Birth Rates: History suggests they’re about to crash at unprecedented levels"
>
> https://psychedelicsaremedicine.medium.com/conservatives-are-in-for-a-rude-awakening-if-they-think-banning-abortion-will-increase-birth-rates-4b5e2853b0de
> (7 minute read)
>
> Excerpt:
>
> "...At another clinic in San Antonio, Ob-Gyn Michelle Muldrow described 'the number of women…requesting sterilization (as) unlike anything she has seen' in her entire career.
>
> "It isn’t just women seeking out sterilization, driven by fear of losing their most essential of human rights. Many urologists have reported that vasectomy inquiries are also up, in some places by around 900%.
>
> "Some of these patients already have kids, but many do not. And while a large chunk of the latter would probably consider themselves to be childfree, such a massive increase in inquiries and surgery appointments is certainly not driven solely by these individuals. What these stratospheric numbers suggest is that many fencesitters and people who formerly may have wanted biological kids are opting out completely and choosing to be sterilized, reasoning that it’s too risky to have them at all when they don’t have the right to choose when and how to have them. Others are rightfully terrified of dying from fatal complications of a wanted pregnancy, or being criminalized for a miscarriage.
>
> "More people are opting out of sex, dating, and marriage all together.
>
> "Many conservatives who loudly preach of the virtues of abstinence are going to find themselves shocked and disappointed when a lot of people start to take this to heart and do it long term, to the extent where it tanks marriage and birth rates..."
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Personally, I suspect that, given how an awful lot of anti-abortion people just want to keep poor people poor and easier to control (with a good deal of racism involved), they don't REALLY care that much about punishing women - of any age - for having sex without consequences; they just want to punish young people who are determined to stay out of poverty and keep in control of their own futures as individuals, whether through abortion, birth control, or abstinence. I.e., even singles in their 20s who don't even have sex lives get punished economically, as they'll tell you.
>
> Sad to say, though, even liberals are not kind to MEN who shun both marriage and parenthood - liberals forget that if women have the right to be single and childfree, so do men. (And a lot of childfree men don't see any point in a marriage without children, but childfree women likely don't feel that way.)

Although I never wanted kids, I usually identify as childless or antinatalist rather than childfree, and that is because I don't feel free due to the burden upon me of other people's decisions to have children. Parents force me to pay school tax, higher gas and heating oil prices, resource wars and far higher rent as well as attack me online, making me part of an oppressed group in need of a homeland. Plus my primary reason has always been to save the planet and any personal or financial advantage I get from not having kids has always been of secondary importance, though like the childfree, I have never had any personal desire to have kids even if land and oil was free and pollution nonexistent. So my favorite identity label is really antinatalist or childless antinatalist, because childfree does not adequately convey the extent to which parents oppress us.
In fact, a world without overpopulation, as hasn't existed since arctic habitation, with free land and oil for all, is so hard to imagine that it hardly matters at all what one would do in such a distantly hypothetical world.
City abortion funding saves city school tax, so much so that cities can then fund country abortions as well, all without answering to country voters.
In this way, my guess is that 10 cities can cover the USA and 25 can cover the world.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4992336894196490