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interests / alt.toys.transformers / What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?

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* What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?Zobovor
`- Re: What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?Irrellius Spamticon

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What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?

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Subject: What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 19:16 UTC

There's an odd way in which transformations are depicted in media, and I don't think that we as consumers always notice it. We're accustomed to picking the toys up off the desk, transforming them, and putting them back down in their now-transformed state. Obviously, that wouldn't be the case in the fictional worlds that these characters inhabit (unless of course it's Blaster being grabbed by a couple of hands on a billboard advertisement, but that's the exception rather than the rule).

Despite this, the characters often transform on-screen in a manner that wouldn't make sense at all. For example, Prowl's waist swivels 180 degrees when he transforms, because the front of his legs forms the rear window of his car mode. And yet, when he transforms on screen, his upper body somehow remains perfectly stationary, and it's his lower body that inexplicably rotates. This can be achieve quite readily if you're holding the toy and are executing these moves by manipulating the toy's moving parts. But, realistically, Prowl's upper body should rotate while his legs remain planted on the ground, which means he would be facing one way as a robot but the opposite way when he gets into car mode. (And it's not just Prowl. Realistically, Mirage and Snarl and Sludge should all suffer from this same issue, but none of them do.)

I mean, obviously we're talking about a cartoon show about giant alien robots who are millions of years old, so already we're leaving our common sense at the door. But, this is a small detail that has often bugged me.

For the purposes of storytelling and the ease of animation, it certainly makes more *sense* for a robot to be able to easily switch to his transformed mode and back. But the physical constraints of the toy designs (and thus the character designs) should realistically inhibit this.

All three Insecticons should end up facing backwards when they transform, but instead their bodies typically execute a mid-air rotation so they can end up facing the right way.

All four of the ground-based Dinobots tend to hover just slightly off the ground when they transform to dinosaur mode, just to give their robot legs room to tuck underneath them. Realistically, they should all have to lay on their bellies or their backs first before they can even switch modes.

I actually kind of like the way the Challenge of the GoBots cartoon addressed this problem. For example, sometimes Turbo would switch from car mode to robot mode and would end up laying down on his back, actually requiring him to climb up off the ground. Or, conversely, if Crasher knew she was going to get into car mode, she would turn around, facing the opposite direction, because she was planning in advance which way she would end up facing as a car.

I guess most of the flying characters are exempt from this, since they can launch into the sky and then reconfigure their bodies as necessary. But the ground-based characters basically have no excuse.

Many of the later series that came after G1 temporarily put the characters in this weird null space while they transformed, so it's likethey weren't even interacting with the outside environment. It was basically the in-world equivalent of a kid at the playground picking up the toy and manipulating it before putting it back down.

I think the only characters who should end up on their feet in robot mode are the guys whose feet already have wheels inside them, and which comprise part of the bottom of the car mode. So, guys like Bumblebee or Sunstreaker, whose robot feet are already in the right respective positions. Everybody else is cheating, though.

Zob (yes, this is what I think about while I'm waiting for the kids to get their hair cut)

Re: What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?

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Subject: Re: What Position Do They End Up In When They Transform?
From: Ob1ken...@att.net (Irrellius Spamticon)
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 by: Irrellius Spamticon - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 13:30 UTC

On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 1:16:45 PM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
> There's an odd way in which transformations are depicted in media, and I don't think that we as consumers always notice it. We're accustomed to picking the toys up off the desk, transforming them, and putting them back down in their now-transformed state. Obviously, that wouldn't be the case in the fictional worlds that these characters inhabit (unless of course it's Blaster being grabbed by a couple of hands on a billboard advertisement, but that's the exception rather than the rule).
>
> Despite this, the characters often transform on-screen in a manner that wouldn't make sense at all. For example, Prowl's waist swivels 180 degrees when he transforms, because the front of his legs forms the rear window of his car mode. And yet, when he transforms on screen, his upper body somehow remains perfectly stationary, and it's his lower body that inexplicably rotates. This can be achieve quite readily if you're holding the toy and are executing these moves by manipulating the toy's moving parts. But, realistically, Prowl's upper body should rotate while his legs remain planted on the ground, which means he would be facing one way as a robot but the opposite way when he gets into car mode. (And it's not just Prowl. Realistically, Mirage and Snarl and Sludge should all suffer from this same issue, but none of them do.)
>
> I mean, obviously we're talking about a cartoon show about giant alien robots who are millions of years old, so already we're leaving our common sense at the door. But, this is a small detail that has often bugged me.
>
> For the purposes of storytelling and the ease of animation, it certainly makes more *sense* for a robot to be able to easily switch to his transformed mode and back. But the physical constraints of the toy designs (and thus the character designs) should realistically inhibit this.
>
> All three Insecticons should end up facing backwards when they transform, but instead their bodies typically execute a mid-air rotation so they can end up facing the right way.
>
> All four of the ground-based Dinobots tend to hover just slightly off the ground when they transform to dinosaur mode, just to give their robot legs room to tuck underneath them. Realistically, they should all have to lay on their bellies or their backs first before they can even switch modes.
>
> I actually kind of like the way the Challenge of the GoBots cartoon addressed this problem. For example, sometimes Turbo would switch from car mode to robot mode and would end up laying down on his back, actually requiring him to climb up off the ground. Or, conversely, if Crasher knew she was going to get into car mode, she would turn around, facing the opposite direction, because she was planning in advance which way she would end up facing as a car.
>
> I guess most of the flying characters are exempt from this, since they can launch into the sky and then reconfigure their bodies as necessary. But the ground-based characters basically have no excuse.
>
> Many of the later series that came after G1 temporarily put the characters in this weird null space while they transformed, so it's likethey weren't even interacting with the outside environment. It was basically the in-world equivalent of a kid at the playground picking up the toy and manipulating it before putting it back down.
>
> I think the only characters who should end up on their feet in robot mode are the guys whose feet already have wheels inside them, and which comprise part of the bottom of the car mode. So, guys like Bumblebee or Sunstreaker, whose robot feet are already in the right respective positions. Everybody else is cheating, though.
>
>
> Zob (yes, this is what I think about while I'm waiting for the kids to get their hair cut)

You did mention a lot of characters end up doing mid-air executions, a little acrobatics has to be expected from a being wh has been converting between modes for possibly millions of years. It's not too much to assume Optimus falls on his knees and then his elbows to transform, and going back to robot would be similar. Gnaw falls forwards onto his hands to go to shark mode.. Wreck gar gets on his hands and knees, Seaspray's feet are his front, same for Cosmos. Powerglide is another who can put his hands on the ground if he wasn't flying. Megatron always jumps or flie up to transform, same for Shockwave. We've seen Soundwave glide on the ground on his legs. There are so many acceptable little cheats for a being who has been doing it for so long. The real cheats are when the face and arms just seem to sink into the vehicle in a bad animation screw up (re Stunticons).

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