Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:

I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.

The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).

If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.

The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.

Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru

In another the rather famous incident of non-fictional cannibalism, the survivors of the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crash ate the non-survivors, including the brains (only as a last resort - apparently a couple of the survivors did refuse to eat brains and died). No cases of Kuru, or Kuru-like symptoms appear to have turned up in the survivors.

So is this just an idea invented by SF writers who need an easy escape clause for their post-apocalyptic characters to use to identify and avoid cannibals? Or is it a real thing? Or did SF writers ready about Kuru and automatically assume that Kuru is a universal outcome of cannibalism.

Any thoughts?

And I do apologize for the subject matter....

Thank you.

Kind regards
Frank

On 01/06/2022 06.57, Frank Scrooby wrote:

> The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
>
> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru

The opposite was portrayed in Poul Anderson's "The Sharing of Flesh".

In this one, the members of the primitive culture contacted needed to
practice cannibalism (at least once).

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sharing_of_Flesh>

(The wikipedia article contains the link to the ISFDB.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at
<http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm>
Please read it before posting.

In article <t77pqd$t0o$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 01/06/2022 06.57, Frank Scrooby wrote:
>
>> The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is
>of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
>>
>> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was
>responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to
>the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the
>brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve
>shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and
>only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The
>government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral
>cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further
>outbreaks of Kuru
>
>The opposite was portrayed in Poul Anderson's "The Sharing of Flesh".
>
>In this one, the members of the primitive culture contacted needed to
>practice cannibalism (at least once).
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sharing_of_Flesh>
>
>(The wikipedia article contains the link to the ISFDB.)
>

Kuru is an element in the "Damsel" superhero books I have reviewed
several times. It's a tell for just how evil the villian is and I
got the feeling the author figured it was a pretty common outcome.

In other cases, I don't recall anyone in _Stranger_ or _Courtship
Rite_ worrying about it.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <t77pqd$t0o$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 01/06/2022 06.57, Frank Scrooby wrote:
> >
> >> The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is
> >of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
> >>
> >> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was
> >responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to
> >the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the
> >brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve
> >shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and
> >only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The
> >government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral
> >cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further
> >outbreaks of Kuru
> >
> >The opposite was portrayed in Poul Anderson's "The Sharing of Flesh".
> >
> >In this one, the members of the primitive culture contacted needed to
> >practice cannibalism (at least once).
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sharing_of_Flesh>
> >
> >(The wikipedia article contains the link to the ISFDB.)
> >
> Kuru is an element in the "Damsel" superhero books I have reviewed
> several times. It's a tell for just how evil the villian is and I
> got the feeling the author figured it was a pretty common outcome.
>
> In other cases, I don't recall anyone in _Stranger_ or _Courtship
> Rite_ worrying about it.

I think it was _Lucifer's Hammer_ that had a discussion of diseases we can pick up from food the more biologically similar they are to us. My takeaway from it was to be sure to cook it thoroughly.

--
-Jack

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:33:06 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/06/2022 06.57, Frank Scrooby wrote:
>
> > The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
> >
> > Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru
> The opposite was portrayed in Poul Anderson's "The Sharing of Flesh".
>
> In this one, the members of the primitive culture contacted needed to
> practice cannibalism (at least once).
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sharing_of_Flesh>
>
> (The wikipedia article contains the link to the ISFDB.)

Similarly, in RAH's 'Stranger in a Strange Land'.

pt

On 6/1/2022 4:57 AM, Frank Scrooby wrote:
> Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
>
> I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
>
> The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
>
> If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
>
> The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
>
> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru
>
> In another the rather famous incident of non-fictional cannibalism, the survivors of the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crash ate the non-survivors, including the brains (only as a last resort - apparently a couple of the survivors did refuse to eat brains and died). No cases of Kuru, or Kuru-like symptoms appear to have turned up in the survivors.
>
> So is this just an idea invented by SF writers who need an easy escape clause for their post-apocalyptic characters to use to identify and avoid cannibals? Or is it a real thing? Or did SF writers ready about Kuru and automatically assume that Kuru is a universal outcome of cannibalism.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> And I do apologize for the subject matter....
>
> Thank you.
>
Well, the reason it didn't occur in the Flight 571 crash is that none of
the dead had the disease. The existence of Kuru outside of New Guinea
is extremely rare.

One suspects that the idea in much of SF script writing (as opposed to
printed book writing) is because script writers are usually pretty
stupid with little real world experience, don't do research, it sounds
"cool" and even when they do get something right it usually gets changed
to something wrong by the actors and director during filming. :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
> Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
>
> I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
>
> The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
>
> If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.

Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
deformities.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 6:57:10 AM UTC-5, Frank Scrooby wrote:
> Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
>
> I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
>
> The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
>
> If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
>
> The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
>
> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru
>
> In another the rather famous incident of non-fictional cannibalism, the survivors of the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crash ate the non-survivors, including the brains (only as a last resort - apparently a couple of the survivors did refuse to eat brains and died). No cases of Kuru, or Kuru-like symptoms appear to have turned up in the survivors.
>
> So is this just an idea invented by SF writers who need an easy escape clause for their post-apocalyptic characters to use to identify and avoid cannibals? Or is it a real thing? Or did SF writers ready about Kuru and automatically assume that Kuru is a universal outcome of cannibalism.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> And I do apologize for the subject matter....
>
Kuru was mentioned in a story by Larry Niven before prions were discovered. It was presumed to
be a virus, as it was in the real world at that time, as were the other prion diseases.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:33:06 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 01/06/2022 06.57, Frank Scrooby wrote:
>>
>> > The one (notorious) written instance of cannibalism in written SF is of cause a "Dog and his Boy" does not (AFAIR) contain a mention of it.
>> >
>> > Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s.
>
> Similarly, in RAH's 'Stranger in a Strange Land'.
>
Kuru was a recent thing in PNG, due to a new practice, I think from the
1940s, and maybe ISTM influenced by garbled Christianity - eating the
brains of loved recently deceased relatives. Head shrinking was a thing
from warfare and done to enemies. Gadjusek (hey I can name drop a Nobel
Laureate*) told us that when he arrived in PNG that the local expats
immediately claimed this new weird disease must be due to cannbalism,
so he looked at every other possible cause first :)

Cheers, David Duffy.

* he was pals with a coworker, so visited and we heard the whole story
firsthand.

More SF-adjacent Robert Silverberg _Lord of Darkness_

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 4:11:24 PM UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
> > Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
> >
> > I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
> >
> > The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
> >
> > If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
> Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
> were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
> no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
> routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
> It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
> the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
> deformities.
The UK managed to reenact this in cows as BSE by using ground up cow carcasses as cattle feed - see https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/oct/26/bse3 - I say the UK but this article pins this to "Believed to be the period when scrapie "jumped" the species barrier and reappeared in cattle as BSE after changes in the rendering process" and during this time much UK regulation, especially agricultural regulation, was EU/EEC regulation.

On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 05:38:49 UTC+1, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 4:11:24 PM UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> > On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
> > > Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
> > >
> > > I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
> > >
> > > The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
> > >
> > > If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
> > Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
> > were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
> > no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
> > routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
> > It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
> > the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
> > deformities.
>
> The UK managed to reenact this in cows as BSE by using ground up cow carcasses as cattle feed - see https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/oct/26/bse3 - I say the UK but this article pins this to "Believed to be the period when scrapie "jumped" the species barrier and reappeared in cattle as BSE after changes in the rendering process" and during this time much UK regulation, especially agricultural regulation, was EU/EEC regulation.

But as you say, that BSE outbreak was only in the UK.
....And anywhere that UK livestock or meat was sent to.
Which soon was nowhere.

So, EU regulation or no, it seems that only the UK was
doing that.

Isolated cases appear anywhere. I expect they always have.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:32:59 AM UTC+1, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 05:38:49 UTC+1, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 4:11:24 PM UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> > > On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
> > > > Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
> > > >
> > > > I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
> > > >
> > > > The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
> > > >
> > > > If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
> > > Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
> > > were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
> > > no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
> > > routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
> > > It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
> > > the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
> > > deformities.
> >
> > The UK managed to reenact this in cows as BSE by using ground up cow carcasses as cattle feed - see https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/oct/26/bse3 - I say the UK but this article pins this to "Believed to be the period when scrapie "jumped" the species barrier and reappeared in cattle as BSE after changes in the rendering process" and during this time much UK regulation, especially agricultural regulation, was EU/EEC regulation.
> But as you say, that BSE outbreak was only in the UK.
> ...And anywhere that UK livestock or meat was sent to.
> Which soon was nowhere.
>
> So, EU regulation or no, it seems that only the UK was
> doing that.
>
> Isolated cases appear anywhere. I expect they always have.
The vast majority of cases were in the UK, but there were cases in other countries. Since regulations at the time were set for the EU/EEC as a whole it seems likely that the UK was hit hardest because it rears a lot of cattle and at the time was converting a large amount of food waste to animal feed.. Searching for more information on the origin (nobody really knows but https://www.ifst.org/resources/information-statements/bovine-spongiform-encephalopathy is interesting and mentions multiple variants including French and Italian) I find that BSE is suppressed through the world because of eternal vigilance in multiple countries (Namibia came up early for some reason).

(circling back to cannibalism, this suggests to me that while there is no iron clad guarantee of Kuru, cannibalism is a really bad idea)

On 01/06/2022 18.42, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 6:57:10 AM UTC-5, Frank Scrooby wrote:

>> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru

> Kuru was mentioned in a story by Larry Niven before prions were discovered. It was presumed to
> be a virus, as it was in the real world at that time, as were the other prion diseases.

Would that story be "Night on Mispec Moor"?

--
Michael F. Stemper
A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:04:19 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/06/2022 18.42, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 6:57:10 AM UTC-5, Frank Scrooby wrote:
>
> >> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru
> > Kuru was mentioned in a story by Larry Niven before prions were discovered. It was presumed to
> > be a virus, as it was in the real world at that time, as were the other prion diseases.
> Would that story be "Night on Mispec Moor"?

Cultures with non-survival cannibalism are very thin on the ground. We've seen the example of
PNG, where it spread kuru, due to contact with nervous tissue.

The only other one I can think of is the Aztecs, where, to the best of my knowledge, this problem
did not occur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_pre-Columbian_America

Possible reasons for lack of kuru-like problems:

1. They weren't actually cannibals - the claim has been disputed.
2. They didn't come in contact with nervous tissue, eating other parts.
3. People who fed on human flesh were not, in turn, eaten by others,
breaking the chain of transmission. Note that victims were often
captured foreign warriors, and cannibalism may have been restricted to
a small, elite population.

pt

On 02/06/2022 05:38, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 4:11:24 PM UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
>>> Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
>>>
>>> I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
>>>
>>> The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
>>>
>>> If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
>> Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
>> were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
>> no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
>> routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
>> It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
>> the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
>> deformities.
> The UK managed to reenact this in cows as BSE by using ground up cow carcasses as cattle feed - see https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/oct/26/bse3 - I say the UK but this article pins this to "Believed to be the period when scrapie "jumped" the species barrier and reappeared in cattle as BSE after changes in the rendering process" and during this time much UK regulation, especially agricultural regulation, was EU/EEC regulation.

The problem was in the use of protein material made from ground-up
by-products of sheep (not cows) as dietary supplements and apparently
scrapie virus survived in the processing, and it was fed to cattle as a
protein additive.

Also, there was a potential problem in bonemeal fertilizer supplements
for gardens that were made from sheep and cattle bones. Not sure if any
proven cases of transfer were found from this, but handling or breathing
the dust was deemed a risk factor.

--
Mike Dworetsky

On Friday, 3 June 2022 at 09:13:39 UTC+1, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
> On 02/06/2022 05:38, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 4:11:24 PM UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 2022-06-01 5:57 a.m., Frank Scrooby wrote:
> >>> Please forgive the somewhat disturbing subject. But:
> >>>
> >>> I've seen references to this idea in a couple of SF works, though it embarrasses me to admit that I can not recall any that were actually 'written' (as opposed to movies or sf computer games). is this a real 'issue' or is it just an easy standby for SF writers.
> >>>
> >>> The movie the "Book of Eli" presents the idea as the opening question in any new relationship. Everybody wants to be sure they're not talking to a cannibal so they show and wish to see that the other person's hand is steady with no shakes. How someone with tremors caused by some other condition might survive is not discussed (AFAIR).
> >>>
> >>> If the Fallout Series of video games there are a couple of references to it, especially in FO3, and FO New Vegas.
> >> Obviously cannibalism won't automatically create cases of Kuru. There
> >> were plenty of tribes that practiced cannibalism to some extent and had
> >> no such problem. In the Fallout setting cannibalism is actually very
> >> routine and kuru has not been depicted as much of an issue.
> >> It is, however, a believable postapocalyptic superstition, not unlike
> >> the superstition that sibling incest is guaranteed to produce hideous
> >> deformities.
> > The UK managed to reenact this in cows as BSE by using ground up cow carcasses as cattle feed - see https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/oct/26/bse3 - I say the UK but this article pins this to "Believed to be the period when scrapie "jumped" the species barrier and reappeared in cattle as BSE after changes in the rendering process" and during this time much UK regulation, especially agricultural regulation, was EU/EEC regulation.
>
> The problem was in the use of protein material made from ground-up
> by-products of sheep (not cows) as dietary supplements and apparently
> scrapie virus survived in the processing, and it was fed to cattle as a
> protein additive.

Specifically, it isn't the type of "virus" that contains evil DNA,
but is a "misfolded protein" that in a "normal configuration"
is already present in the organism. However, the presence
of a "misfolded" version apparently causes more "misfolded
protein" to appear.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinopathy>

However, both scrapie (for sheep) and BSE (for cows) now come
as "classic" or "atypical". "Classic scrapie" is the original, "known
since at least 1732" says Wikipedia.

Getting rid of "misfolded protein" seems to be extremely difficult,
technically it seems to survive in the environment although infection
from e.g. grass or mother's milk is unproven and possibly unprovable,
and the disease is incurable.

> Also, there was a potential problem in bonemeal fertilizer supplements
> for gardens that were made from sheep and cattle bones. Not sure if any
> proven cases of transfer were found from this, but handling or breathing
> the dust was deemed a risk factor.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:04:19 AM UTC-5, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/06/2022 18.42, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 6:57:10 AM UTC-5, Frank Scrooby wrote:
>
> >> Now a quick Google reveals that a prion disease called Kuru was responsible for many deaths in populations of the New Guinea prior to the 1980s. But kuru is only transmitted if the cannibal consumes the brain or spinal cord matter. The earliest symptoms of Kuru involve shaking, particularly of the hands but the disease is always fatal and only seems to be transmitted through the aforementioned body parts. The government of New Guinea outlawed the practice of ritual, funeral cannibalism in the 1970s and since the 1980s there have been no further outbreaks of Kuru
> > Kuru was mentioned in a story by Larry Niven before prions were discovered. It was presumed to
> > be a virus, as it was in the real world at that time, as were the other prion diseases.
> Would that story be "Night on Mispec Moor"?
>
Possibly _Dream Park_. I think the characters expressed wonder that evolution could fill
such a specialized niche as a virus only spread by cannibalism.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist