[Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the discussion here.]

LARPing has grown up.

It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
on a par with books and visual media. I suggest it needs more
discussion.

For me, LARPing has been something other fans were doing at cons.
It didn't impact me. More recently, my daughters both got
independently involved in local LARP groups, most of which ran
over weekends at remote campsites.

But I wasn't really aware of large-scale commercial LARPs. They've
gotten big.

Disney has this spring introduced a new event in Orlando,
"Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser", which is a special hotel,
constructed to internally appear to be a SW universe
passenger cruiser. Guests sign up for a 3-day, 2-night event,
which can cost over $6000 for a family of four.

Inside, the hotel is configured to provide a 24/7 immersive experience.
There are no windows, only video 'viewports' showing the space
environment. There are a large number of non-customer NPCs, roping
customers into taking parts in a wide ranging plot onboard with
age-appropriate parts. Costuming and developing your own
character is encouraged.

Families can leave to visit regular Disneyworld (if they really want
to), on a bus configured internally as a shuttle which docks at
'Black Spire Outpost', a Star Wars themed new section of the park.
However, I expect most will be there for the SW experience, not the
Carousel of Progress.

I'd heard a bit about this, but a recent article in the New Yorker
explores the experience, and how it was developed, in great detail:

"LARPing Goes to Disneyworld":
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/05/30/larping-goes-to-disney-world
Its a fascinating read.

Disney leaned heavily on commercial LARPs to develop this, and
the author explores that world in depth, including taking part
in a small LARP based on Godwin's 'The Cold Equations'.

Official Disney trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eY-VRFq10k

Positive review from CNET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZF6ySGN_M

Somewhat more jaundiced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vqn0S0Atu8

Things like this are, in my opinion, legit stfnal experiences,
and merit discussion.

pt

"The Cold Equations" as an Escape Room with a difference :-)

On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 11:05:13 -0700, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

> [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the
> discussion here.]
>
> LARPing has grown up.
>
> It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
> on a par with books and visual media. I suggest it needs more
> discussion.
>
> For me, LARPing has been something other fans were doing at cons.
> It didn't impact me. More recently, my daughters both got independently
> involved in local LARP groups, most of which ran over weekends at remote
> campsites.
>
> But I wasn't really aware of large-scale commercial LARPs. They've
> gotten big.
>
> Disney has this spring introduced a new event in Orlando,
> "Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser", which is a special hotel,
> constructed to internally appear to be a SW universe passenger cruiser.
> Guests sign up for a 3-day, 2-night event,
> which can cost over $6000 for a family of four.
>
> Inside, the hotel is configured to provide a 24/7 immersive experience.
> There are no windows, only video 'viewports' showing the space
> environment. There are a large number of non-customer NPCs, roping
> customers into taking parts in a wide ranging plot onboard with
> age-appropriate parts. Costuming and developing your own character is
> encouraged.
>
> Families can leave to visit regular Disneyworld (if they really want
> to), on a bus configured internally as a shuttle which docks at 'Black
> Spire Outpost', a Star Wars themed new section of the park.
> However, I expect most will be there for the SW experience, not the
> Carousel of Progress.
>
> I'd heard a bit about this, but a recent article in the New Yorker
> explores the experience, and how it was developed, in great detail:
>
> "LARPing Goes to Disneyworld":
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/05/30/larping-goes-to-disney-
world
> Its a fascinating read.
>
> Disney leaned heavily on commercial LARPs to develop this, and the
> author explores that world in depth, including taking part in a small
> LARP based on Godwin's 'The Cold Equations'.
>
> Official Disney trailer:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eY-VRFq10k
>
> Positive review from CNET https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZF6ySGN_M
>
> Somewhat more jaundiced:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vqn0S0Atu8
>
> Things like this are, in my opinion, legit stfnal experiences,
> and merit discussion.
>
> pt

It is a legit moronic experience. Anyone who goes after checking out
what they get for $4,500 to $6,000 deserves the highway robbery they will
experience.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 4:00:25 PM UTC-4, Magewolf wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 11:05:13 -0700, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the
> > discussion here.]
> >
> > LARPing has grown up.
> >
> > It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
> > on a par with books and visual media. I suggest it needs more
> > discussion.
> >
> > For me, LARPing has been something other fans were doing at cons.
> > It didn't impact me. More recently, my daughters both got independently
> > involved in local LARP groups, most of which ran over weekends at remote
> > campsites.
> >
> > But I wasn't really aware of large-scale commercial LARPs. They've
> > gotten big.
> >
> > Disney has this spring introduced a new event in Orlando,
> > "Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser", which is a special hotel,
> > constructed to internally appear to be a SW universe passenger cruiser.
> > Guests sign up for a 3-day, 2-night event,
> > which can cost over $6000 for a family of four.
> >
> > Inside, the hotel is configured to provide a 24/7 immersive experience.
> > There are no windows, only video 'viewports' showing the space
> > environment. There are a large number of non-customer NPCs, roping
> > customers into taking parts in a wide ranging plot onboard with
> > age-appropriate parts. Costuming and developing your own character is
> > encouraged.
> >
> > Families can leave to visit regular Disneyworld (if they really want
> > to), on a bus configured internally as a shuttle which docks at 'Black
> > Spire Outpost', a Star Wars themed new section of the park.
> > However, I expect most will be there for the SW experience, not the
> > Carousel of Progress.
> >
> > I'd heard a bit about this, but a recent article in the New Yorker
> > explores the experience, and how it was developed, in great detail:
> >
> > "LARPing Goes to Disneyworld":
> > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/05/30/larping-goes-to-disney-
> world
> > Its a fascinating read.
> >
> > Disney leaned heavily on commercial LARPs to develop this, and the
> > author explores that world in depth, including taking part in a small
> > LARP based on Godwin's 'The Cold Equations'.
> >
> > Official Disney trailer:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eY-VRFq10k
> >
> > Positive review from CNET https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZF6ySGN_M
> >
> > Somewhat more jaundiced:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vqn0S0Atu8
> >
> > Things like this are, in my opinion, legit stfnal experiences,
> > and merit discussion.
> >
> > pt
> It is a legit moronic experience. Anyone who goes after checking out
> what they get for $4,500 to $6,000 deserves the highway robbery they will
> experience.

Sour grapes much?

You're entitled to your opinion. It seems to be selling well.

pt

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 1:05:15 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
. . .
> I'd heard a bit about this, but a recent article in the New Yorker
> explores the experience, and how it was developed, in great detail:
>
> "LARPing Goes to Disneyworld":
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/05/30/larping-goes-to-disney-world
> Its a fascinating read.
>
> Disney leaned heavily on commercial LARPs to develop this, and
> the author explores that world in depth, including taking part
> in a small LARP based on Godwin's 'The Cold Equations'.
>
From the _New Yorker_ article:

In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship
customers play a spaceship pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying from an
illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
. . .
In January, at the height of the Omicron wave, Hart ran Calculations for me in his Lower East Side home. In the basement,
I sat on a paisley-print sofa under the stairs. A laptop on a table connected me to my A.I. assistant, Gabi, voiced by
Allegra Durante, a professional actor.

“This is an air lock,” Hart explained. “This leads to outer space”—he waved his hands toward the foot of the stairs.
I looked around. A covered basket and a large black chest sat near a TV and a bookshelf full of Dungeons and
Dragons manuals. This was my ship. “Game on,” Hart said and jogged upstairs.

Gabi told me that the ship had drifted off course because of an unaccounted-for hundred-and-forty-pound mass.
In other words, there was a stowaway. I searched the ship, terrified that I would find a human body as I lifted the
covering of the basket (towels) and then opened the chest (bedding). Finally, behind a pillow, I discovered a pair of eyes.
A young woman with black pigtails—Lucie Allouche, an N.Y.U.-trained actor—stared at me from a crawl space under the stairs.
Gabi had told me that stowaways must be sent out the air lock. If we didn’t act, the Martian colonists would not get their
medicine and we would both die adrift in space. The first stranger I’d touched in two years sobbed against my shoulder.
Eventually, she ascended the stairs to her death.

After the larp, Hart explained that Sinking Ship normally provides more spaceship ambience: dim blue lights, a speaker that
mimics the sound of pressurized air. Such elements bolster what Nordic larpers call “alibi,” an excuse to act in character
without feeling self-conscious. I told him the game was still pretty sad. A lot of customers seek out larps that make them
cry, he said. “That’s all they want from me. I’m, like, I could do a lot of shit. I can do comedy. I can do romance, action, thriller.
All of those are much harder than crying.”

The orbital mechanics seem even less realistic than in the original story. With colonists on Mars to collect the payload,
the mission should be simpler than the 1976 Viking landers. Using a manned spacecraft increases the throw-weight
by orders of magnitude, but that's show business.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:

>In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
>side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
>pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
>from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
>game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.

Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.

Brian

On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 6:53:53 AM UTC+1, Default User wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
> >side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
> >pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
> >from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
> >game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.
>
>
> Brian
My impression of it with paid performers is that it is an even less efficient way of communicating SF than film, with my preferred medium being books. LARP as an amateur recreation sounds more comprehensible to me, although I would not be particularly keen myself - I observe that many sports clubs and other amateur recreations function almost as if the purported business at hand is nothing more than the excuse for a social occasion.

Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
>>side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
>>pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
>>from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
>>game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
>
> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.

Sounds a lot like the VR "game" from the "Three-Body Problem", which
also was quite pointless.

On 6/2/2022 11:05 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the discussion here.]
>
> LARPing has grown up.
>
> It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
>

Just in case someone else is wondering:

LARP definition
Live action role-playing game

Form of role-playing game
A live action role-playing game (LARP) is a form of role-playing game
where the participants physically portray their characters. The players
pursue goals within a fictional setting represented by rea…

a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> On 6/2/2022 11:05 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the discussion here.]
>>
>> LARPing has grown up.
>>
>> It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
>>
>
> Just in case someone else is wondering:
>
> LARP definition
> Live action role-playing game

And I thought it was a "Luser Attitude Readjustment Program",
much like the "LART" (Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool).

(No, I didn't).

On 04/06/2022 10.33, a425couple wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 11:05 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the discussion here.]
>>
>> LARPing has grown up.
>>
>> It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
>>
>
> Just in case someone else is wondering:
>
> LARP definition
> Live action role-playing game
>
> Form of role-playing game
> A live action role-playing game (LARP) is a form of role-playing game where the participants physically portray their characters. The players pursue goals within a fictional setting represented by rea…

And Charlie Stross has an Edinburgh-based LARP used to co-opt
some innocents in _Rule 34_.

--
Michael F. Stemper
No animals were harmed in the composition of this message.

On Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 16:33:54 UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 11:05 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of the discussion here.]
> >
> > LARPing has grown up.
> >
> > It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
> >
> Just in case someone else is wondering:
>
> LARP definition
> Live action role-playing game
>
> Form of role-playing game
> A live action role-playing game (LARP) is a form of role-playing game
> where the participants physically portray their characters. The players
> pursue goals within a fictional setting represented by rea…

By rea? That's a large flightless bird, isn't it?

Thomas Koenig wrote:

>Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> schrieb:

>> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the
>>story or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do
>>anything else.
>
>Sounds a lot like the VR "game" from the "Three-Body Problem", which
>also was quite pointless.

They do have what amount to immersive experience events. They really
have for a long time with the "murder mystery dinners" and such. I
don't know much about the LARP events to tell if there's any real
competitiveness versus just riding along with a story.

Brian

On 3/06/22 06:05, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
>
> Disney has this spring introduced a new event in Orlando,
> "Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser", which is a special hotel,
> constructed to internally appear to be a SW universe
> passenger cruiser. Guests sign up for a 3-day, 2-night event,
> which can cost over $6000 for a family of four.
>
> Inside, the hotel is configured to provide a 24/7 immersive experience.
> There are no windows, only video 'viewports' showing the space
> environment. There are a large number of non-customer NPCs, roping
> customers into taking parts in a wide ranging plot onboard with
> age-appropriate parts. Costuming and developing your own
> character is encouraged.
> snip

This is your captain speaking. Second Navigation Technician P Trei to
immediately proceed to Level YMe and clear the blocked toilets.

> On 3/06/22 06:05, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> snip

Please accept my apologies for mistakenly sending my reply to the group
on this topic to your personal email.

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
news:8c714f65-6185-4a3f-8d0e-ccbd637c1b04n@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 16:33:54 UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 11:05 AM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > [Yes, its not written SF, but is more on-topic than most of
>> > the discuss
> ion here.]
>> >
>> > LARPing has grown up.
>> >
>> > It seems to be turning into its own SF fannish experience,
>> >
>> Just in case someone else is wondering:
>>
>> LARP definition
>> Live action role-playing game
>>
>> Form of role-playing game
>> A live action role-playing game (LARP) is a form of
>> role-playing game where the participants physically portray
>> their characters. The players
>
>> pursue goals within a fictional setting represented by rea…
>
> By rea? That's a large flightless bird, isn't it?
>
I believe it's spelled rhea.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-06-03 11:53 p.m., Default User wrote:
> peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
>> side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
>> pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
>>from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
>> game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
>
> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.
>

Yeah, that's semi-interactive fiction not a game. The computer
equivalent is called a Visual Novel.

On Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 06:53:53 UTC+1, Default User wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
> >side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
> >pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
> >from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
> >game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
>
> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.

Well, if there's a twist, it would be rude to give it away in
_The New Yorker_. They don't "spoil" the Star Wars stuff.

But there's a lot more in the room which could go out the
airlock. INCLUDING the "Dungeons and Dragons" books.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2022 11:06:43 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 06:53:53 UTC+1, Default User wrote:
>> peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
>> >side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
>> >pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
>> >from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
>> >game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
>>
>> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
>> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.
>
>Well, if there's a twist, it would be rude to give it away in
>_The New Yorker_. They don't "spoil" the Star Wars stuff.
>
>But there's a lot more in the room which could go out the
>airlock. INCLUDING the "Dungeons and Dragons" books.

A shortcoming of contemporary electronic gaming is that AI is not up
to NPCs having much in the way of options--in most cases the options
are a very limited number of scripted choices or kill them and take
their stuff.

With actual humans in the NPC roles, things could get more
interesting. But expensive.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 2:08:31 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2022 11:06:43 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 06:53:53 UTC+1, Default User wrote:
> >> peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >In Calculations, written by Caro Murphy, a veteran larper with a
> >> >side-swept cyberpunk haircut, Sinking Ship customers play a spaceship
> >> >pilot delivering medicine to Mars, where colonists have been dying
> >> >from an illness that causes “shortness of breath.” Murphy adapted the
> >> >game from a nineteen-fifties sci-fi story by Tom Godwin.
> >>
> >> Seems like a fairly poor "game" if all you can do is follow the story
> >> or die. There wasn't any indication that you could do anything else.
> >
> >Well, if there's a twist, it would be rude to give it away in
> >_The New Yorker_. They don't "spoil" the Star Wars stuff.
> >
> >But there's a lot more in the room which could go out the
> >airlock. INCLUDING the "Dungeons and Dragons" books.
> A shortcoming of contemporary electronic gaming is that AI is not up
> to NPCs having much in the way of options--in most cases the options
> are a very limited number of scripted choices or kill them and take
> their stuff.
>
> With actual humans in the NPC roles, things could get more
> interesting. But expensive.

LARPing is a bit like SF Cons - there are amateur fan-run events,
but also more professional ones, with a harder staff/fan distinction.

Amateur LARPs can include a good deal of improvisation, with plots
going off in odd directions. The Disney event seems much more tightly
scripted; after all, many the paying attendees have a huge gap in knowledge
compared to the paid NPCs, and they want everyone to have fun.

pt