Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022

I aim to do this type of post every two months. I think there are no spoilers,
not even minor ones. If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early
in the book in question and is front-and-center.

Books are listed in reverse chronological order from how I read them,
with a very primitive rating system:
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse

I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.

Highlight(s) - Tiamat’s Wrath [Corey], and Explorers [ed. Dozois]

Lowlight(s) - The Mind Pool [Sheffield], or Zero Sum Game [Huang],
or Edgedancer [Sanderson]

Here’s what’s below:

June
Brokedown Palace - Brust
Zero Sum Game - S.L. Huang
The Day After Judgement - Blish
Black Easter - Blish
The Witness for the Dead - Addison
The Mind Pool - Sheffield

May
Black Sun Rising - Friedman [Coldfire #1]
The Languages of Pao - Vance
Edgedancer - Sanderson [Stormlight Archive novella, set between #2 and #3]
A Desolation Called Peace - Martine [Teixcalaan #2]
To Clear Away the Shadows - Drake [RCN # 13]
The Ruthless Lady’s Guide to Wizardry- CM Waggoner
Tiamat’s Wrath - Corey [Expanse #8]
Explorers - Dozois, ed. (1st half of Exploring The Horizon, 2nd half
is the anthology The Furthest Horizon)
======================================================June
(++) Brokedown Palace - Brust
This was charming, employing a wonderful tale-telling style; also has many
mostly-plot-independent interludes that relate “fairy tales” and “legends” -
each guaranteed to be true because one of the tale-tellers many relatives
was actually there, or knew someone who was, and how could it be
otherwise (wink-wink)?

(+ -) Zero Sum Game - S.L. Huang
Some truly neat ideas, but poorly executed; not a very sympathetic
protagonist, and the redemption angle never really gets on track
(or perhaps gets derailed early); characters have strange reactions
and over-reactions; the plot strongly relies on memory manipulation
& mental control, leading to a lot of questions & angst about
what/who to believe.

(++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
(++) Black Easter - Blish
I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
it of some impact.

(++) The Witness for the Dead - Addison
This takes place in the same world as The Goblin Emperor, but pretty
far away from that milieu (no Maia, for example). This volume focuses
on Thara Celahar and his duties/mysteries in far-off Amalo. This book
is almost-but-not-quite The Goblin Emperor - it’s similar in temperament,
tone, pace, and focus, but scaled down, with a protagonist that is
almost-but-not-quite as charming.

(++ - -) The Mind Pool - Sheffield
Mostly good, but maddening with its holes and inconsistencies. Interesting
world-building and set-up - far-future solar-system-and-beyond; four major
species of very different forms and mentalities. The focus is on 5-7 humans,
initially doing very different things. Earth is special in a bad/dumb way; two
of the protagonists are rather monolithic and are the primary sources of the
holes and inconsistencies. The entire plot turns/hinges (rather early in the
book) on an uber-disciplined & uber-controlling protagonist impulsively
making a bet with another protagonist, and then impulsively implementing
the terms of the bet. What? Not the only holes or inconsistencies, either, sad
to say. Still, very interesting, and would be a very good read if you leave your
scrutinizing at home.

May
(++ - )Black Sun Rising - Friedman [Coldfire #1]
For similar reasons to the previous entry, this was “Good, but…” The
world-building was very very good - far future, earth colony, on a planet
where there is an adaptable/mutable “magic”/energy source called “fae”
that interacts with both the humans and a native sentient species.
But…the plot & characterizations are rather thin, especially given how
long the book is. Another decent read that would be even better if you
don’t scrutinize too closely.

(++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
planet. The protagonist is a bit passive and ineffectual. The resolution is
somewhat unsatisfying, though plausible.

(+ -) Edgedancer - Sanderson [Stormlight Archive novella, set between #2 and #3]
Meh. This is a novella that is placed between #2 and #3 of the Stormlight
Archive, and is centered on a previously-minor character who will clearly
develop and become important as the series proceeds. The problem is that
she’s really really annoying. If you pay attention, it’s really well done by
Sanderson, as what she says and what she does are different things - not
to mention revealing/important. While this enhanced the reading, it didn’t
make it enjoyable. But it really helps to have read this before you read #3
(Oathbringer), as I am doing now.

(++) A Desolation Called Peace - Martine [Teixcalaan #2]
Fine - not great - good; Teixcalaan gets focused on the threat beyond the
Lsel Station Gate - a vastly superior opponent (tech-wise). Two of the main
characters are trying to translate a captured message, and are ultimately
tasked with trying to negotiate with their strange opponents. Lots of politics
and political tensions, and — to me — way too much screen-time and
reliance upon the young heir. With one annoying situational exception,
the characterizations are very good, with well-done different distinct
viewpoints and philosophies.

(+) To Clear Away the Shadows - Drake [RCN # 13]
This reads like “what if a young Daniel Leary-type person had become
a biologist instead of a military man?”. Unless I’m forgetting some minor
characters, this is completely populated by new characters in the RCN
universe. It’s mostly an episodic travelogue where the biologist protagonist
is given an RCN commission to aid with the science aspect of an exploration
mission. While there’s an overall arc that ties it all together, the plot primarily
shows the protagonist learning about the biology & eco-systems of each
planet, with one political problem to be solved that pops up at each one.

(+ -) The Ruthless Lady’s Guide to Wizardry- CM Waggoner
Eh - same world as (and loose sequel to) Waggoner’s first novel
Unnatural Magic, with very little overlap in characters. Clunky start,
and some weird/faux language affectations that only occasionally
(but consistently) pop up in the two protagonists. The plot is thin,
including the fact that some key stuff falls apart upon inspection.

(+++) Tiamat’s Wrath - Corey [Expanse #8 - only one more to go!]
This was excellent. Following on from #7, Holden is a prisoner on Laconia,
Naomi is a big cheese in the underground resistance, and Alex & Bobbie
are in the military arm of said underground. Amos is currently long-MIA on
some secret mission (at least, the readers don’t know what it is). Excellent
characterization and plot progress, and at the end, all are in very interesting
situations. Looking forward to #9.

(+++) Explorers - Dozois, ed. (makes up the1st half of Exploring The Horizon;
the 2nd half is the anthology “The Furthest Horizon”)
The list of stories is here:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?230697
However, my copy of “Explorers” makes up the first half of what is seen here:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?84160
The last story in Explorers is the Landis entry.

This was also excellent. Many of these stories were new to me, and I was
very pleasantly surprised at how many really enjoyable stories are here.
I didn’t skip any of the re-reads. Especially strong to me were the stories by
Fyfe, Schmitz, Cordwainer Smith, Niven, Zelazny, Le Guin, Clarke, Vinge,
Varley, McDevitt, Nordley, and Landis; but just about all of them were good
(or better).
======================================================Now Reading:
Long work - Oathbringer, Sanderson [Stormlight #3]
Collection - Dozois’ “The Furthest Horizon”, which is the second half of the
collection Exploring the Horizons. (The 1st half is the anthology “Explorers”
and it was excellent, as reviewed above.)

Tony

On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:

> Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022

> (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> (++) Black Easter - Blish
> I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> it of some impact.

Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
can be fun.

I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
I'll know enough to read them in the right order.

> (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> planet.

I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
_Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
role in it.

One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
good things about it.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Isaiah 58:6-7

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
>
> > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > it of some impact.
> Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> can be fun.
>
> I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
> > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > planet.
> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> role in it.
>
> One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
> bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
> good things about it.

I like almost everything by Vance, and have reread most of it at least once.. But there are a few of his works in which,
while the flavour is Vance, something is missing. Out of curiosity, which Vance did you try?

William Hyde

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
>
> > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > it of some impact.
>
> Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> can be fun.

Completely agree - I've very much enjoyed almost everything
I've read by Blish.

> I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> I'll know enough to read them in the right order.

Just fyi, both of them were put together in a volume called
"The Devil's Day". The volume I have is simply (and conveniently)
called "Black Easter and The Day After Judgement".

> > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > planet.
>
> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> role in it.

True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
that one or Triton.

> One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
> bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
> good things about it.
>

I second what William just wrote - let us know what you've tried,
and we may be able to recommend a more targeted Vance selection.

Tony

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
> >
> > > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > > it of some impact.
> >
> > Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> > can be fun.
> Completely agree - I've very much enjoyed almost everything
> I've read by Blish.
> > I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> > I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> > I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
> Just fyi, both of them were put together in a volume called
> "The Devil's Day". The volume I have is simply (and conveniently)
> called "Black Easter and The Day After Judgement".
> > > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > > planet.
> >
> > I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> > _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> > role in it.
> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> that one or Triton.

David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name), a more conservative poster
than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
and could not finish it. I haven't read Babel-17 since my teens.

William Hyde

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
> > >
> > > > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > > > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > > > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > > > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > > > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > > > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > > > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > > > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > > > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > > > it of some impact.
> > >
> > > Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> > > can be fun.
> > Completely agree - I've very much enjoyed almost everything
> > I've read by Blish.
> > > I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> > > I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> > > I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
> > Just fyi, both of them were put together in a volume called
> > "The Devil's Day". The volume I have is simply (and conveniently)
> > called "Black Easter and The Day After Judgement".
> > > > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > > > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > > > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > > > planet.
> > >
> > > I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> > > _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> > > role in it.
> > True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> > but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> > that one or Triton.
>
> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),

Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.

> a more conservative poster
> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
> and could not finish it.

That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
And then I've put it back.

> I haven't read Babel-17 since my teens.

Any memories or impressions to pass along?
- Tony

On 2022-07-02, Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
....
>> > > I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
>> > > _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
>> > > role in it.
>> > True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
>> > but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
>> > that one or Triton.
>>
>> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),
>
> Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
>
>> a more conservative poster
>> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
>> and could not finish it.
>
> That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> And then I've put it back.
>
>> I haven't read Babel-17 since my teens.
>
> Any memories or impressions to pass along?

I enjoyed _Babel-17_ and reread it several times, though it's been
several decades since the last time. Nice food for thought back then.

_Triton_ was better than _Dhalgren_ but I can't say too much more in
its favor. It was more depressing than I like, with characters I
found tough to empathize with. Also decades since I read it.

Chris

In article <cfb56c76-499a-4aff-a009-00fd7bb743dan@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:

> Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
>

<SNIP!>
>
> (++ - -) The Mind Pool - Sheffield
> Mostly good, but maddening with its holes and inconsistencies.
> Interesting world-building and set-up - far-future
> solar-system-and-beyond; four major species of very different forms
> and mentalities. The focus is on 5-7 humans, initially doing very
> different things. Earth is special in a bad/dumb way; two of the
> protagonists are rather monolithic and are the primary sources of the
> holes and inconsistencies. The entire plot turns/hinges (rather early
> in the book) on an uber-disciplined & uber-controlling protagonist
> impulsively making a bet with another protagonist, and then
> impulsively implementing the terms of the bet. What? Not the only
> holes or inconsistencies, either, sad to say. Still, very
> interesting, and would be a very good read if you leave your
> scrutinizing at home.

This is an expansion (and I suspect rewrite) of an earlier title, _The
Nimrod Hunt_ (both were published by Baen Books). I don't know how the
two versions differ.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <t9ni06$2bj51$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
>
>> Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
>
>> (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
>> (++) Black Easter - Blish
>> I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
>> of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
>> works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
>> researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
>> treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
>> but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
>> it of some impact.
>
>Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
>can be fun.
>
>I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
>I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
>I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
>
>> (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
>> Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
>> hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
>> planet.
>
>I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
>_Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
>role in it.
>
>One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
>bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
>good things about it.
>

My recollection is that Pao is not quite "High Vance", though it's certainly
not _The Five Gold Bands_ either. Which is to say, you could like it
either way. To my mind probably the best Vance for incorporating his
increasing baroqueness with an actual plot and adventure (probably
a contractual requirement given the title) is the "Planet Of Adventure"
sequence.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 01/07/2022 15.28, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:

>>> (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
>>> Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
>>> hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
>>> planet.

>> One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
>> bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
>> good things about it.
>
> I like almost everything by Vance, and have reread most of it at least once. But there are a few of his works in which,
> while the flavour is Vance, something is missing. Out of curiosity, which Vance did you try?

_The Dying Earth_. All that I remember about it is a wizard working
out some spell, because I never made it to page 20.

On the other hand, now that the subject comes up, I remember that
"The Last Castle" was also Vance, and I've probably read that half
a dozen times or more, so he's not a total loss for me.

--
Michael F. Stemper
If it isn't running programs and it isn't fusing atoms, it's just bending space.

On 01/07/2022 19.03, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

>>>> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
>>>> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
>>>> role in it.
>>> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
>>> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
>>> that one or Triton.
>>
>> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),
>
> Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
>
>> a more conservative poster
>> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
>> and could not finish it.
>
> That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> And then I've put it back.

Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.

_Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
one might expect from the title).

It just occurred to me that my first Delany and my first Vance were
in the same book:

<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?1544?

--
Michael F. Stemper
If it isn't running programs and it isn't fusing atoms, it's just bending space.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 8:03:33 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > > On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > > > > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > > > > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > > > > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > > > > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > > > > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > > > > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > > > > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > > > > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > > > > it of some impact.
> > > >
> > > > Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> > > > can be fun.
> > > Completely agree - I've very much enjoyed almost everything
> > > I've read by Blish.
> > > > I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> > > > I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> > > > I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
> > > Just fyi, both of them were put together in a volume called
> > > "The Devil's Day". The volume I have is simply (and conveniently)
> > > called "Black Easter and The Day After Judgement".
> > > > > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > > > > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > > > > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > > > > planet.
> > > >
> > > > I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> > > > _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> > > > role in it.
> > > True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> > > but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> > > that one or Triton.
> >
> > David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),
> Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
> > a more conservative poster
> > than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
> > and could not finish it.
> That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> And then I've put it back.
> > I haven't read Babel-17 since my teens.
> Any memories or impressions to pass along?

I was a teenager, and not a remarkably perceptive one, when I read it. On the whole I enjoyed it, but sometimes wondered just what was going on. An experience I had with many new-wave-ish books until something clicked.

William Hyde

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:23:29 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/07/2022 15.28, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
>
> >>> (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> >>> Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> >>> hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> >>> planet.
> >> One of these days, I need to pick up a copy of Pao, even though I've
> >> bounced off of the other Vance I've tried. I've just heard too many
> >> good things about it.
> >
> > I like almost everything by Vance, and have reread most of it at least once. But there are a few of his works in which,
> > while the flavour is Vance, something is missing. Out of curiosity, which Vance did you try?
> _The Dying Earth_. All that I remember about it is a wizard working
> out some spell, because I never made it to page 20.
>
> On the other hand, now that the subject comes up, I remember that
> "The Last Castle" was also Vance, and I've probably read that half
> a dozen times or more, so he's not a total loss for me.

"Castle" is far more typical of Vance's body of work. The "Dying Earth" stories consist of the aforementioned, three novels, and a few other short stories. They're favourites of mine, but except for some similarities of style, could be written by a different author than that of "Languages of Pao". The "Lyonesse" novels are even more explicitly fantasy, but are set in the past.

The spell system in TDE was apparently the source of the system in D&D. In "Trullion" Vance has a character named Gygax. It certainly sounds like a name someone in a Vance world might have.

William Hyde

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 1:06:15 AM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <cfb56c76-499a-4aff...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> >
> <SNIP!>
> >
> > (++ - -) The Mind Pool - Sheffield
> > Mostly good, but maddening with its holes and inconsistencies.
> > Interesting world-building and set-up - far-future
> > solar-system-and-beyond; four major species of very different forms
> > and mentalities. The focus is on 5-7 humans, initially doing very
> > different things. Earth is special in a bad/dumb way; two of the
> > protagonists are rather monolithic and are the primary sources of the
> > holes and inconsistencies. The entire plot turns/hinges (rather early
> > in the book) on an uber-disciplined & uber-controlling protagonist
> > impulsively making a bet with another protagonist, and then
> > impulsively implementing the terms of the bet. What? Not the only
> > holes or inconsistencies, either, sad to say. Still, very
> > interesting, and would be a very good read if you leave your
> > scrutinizing at home.
>
> This is an expansion (and I suspect rewrite) of an earlier title, _The
> Nimrod Hunt_ (both were published by Baen Books). I don't know how the
> two versions differ.
>

Indeed it is - my Baen edition of TMP comes with a two-full-page intro
by Sheffield explaining how and why the re-write/expansion came about.
It's just long enough -- and I'm just lazy enough -- that I won't transcribe
the two pages, but basically Sheffield says: post-publication of TNH,
there were a few things that still bugged him; and then Algis Budrys
pointed out a larger problem (and how to correct it); and a few years
after that, Jim Baen asked if there was anything Sheffield would like
to revisit or even rewrite. And voila' - to quote Sheffield directly:
"The one-week easy fix became the two-month concerted effort.
I found that I had produced a different book."

Tony

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 6:23:55 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 8:03:33 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> > > > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > > > On 01/07/2022 14.13, Tony Nance wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Highlights and Lowlights - May-June 2022
> > > > > > (++ -) The Day After Judgement - Blish
> > > > > > (++) Black Easter - Blish
> > > > > > I read these back-to-back, as they were in the same volume, and the start
> > > > > > of the second (TDAJ) picks up immediately after the end of the first. These
> > > > > > works are early examples of magic-treated-scientifically. Very well
> > > > > > researched and well-treated. Blish’s forward says a lot about previous
> > > > > > treatments of magic. The ending of TDAJ was a really interesting idea,
> > > > > > but it was unfortunately obscured by how Blish presented it, hence robbing
> > > > > > it of some impact.
> > > > >
> > > > > Despite his flaws (hashed out here within the last month or so), Blish
> > > > > can be fun.
> > > > Completely agree - I've very much enjoyed almost everything
> > > > I've read by Blish.
> > > > > I am surprised to find that not only have I never read either of these,
> > > > > I don't even have either of them on my shelves. If I stumble across them,
> > > > > I'll know enough to read them in the right order.
> > > > Just fyi, both of them were put together in a volume called
> > > > "The Devil's Day". The volume I have is simply (and conveniently)
> > > > called "Black Easter and The Day After Judgement".
> > > > > > (++) The Languages of Pao - Vance
> > > > > > Good/normal/wonderful Vance. The (unmentioned in the book) Sapir-Whorf
> > > > > > hypothesis lays behind a Vancian villain who schemes to control an entire
> > > > > > planet.
> > > > >
> > > > > I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> > > > > _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> > > > > role in it.
> > > > True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> > > > but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> > > > that one or Triton.
> > >
> > > David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),
> > Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
> > > a more conservative poster
> > > than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
> > > and could not finish it.
> > That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> > with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> > And then I've put it back.
> > > I haven't read Babel-17 since my teens.
> > Any memories or impressions to pass along?
> I was a teenager, and not a remarkably perceptive one, when I read it. On the whole I enjoyed it, but sometimes wondered just what was going on. An experience I had with many new-wave-ish books until something clicked.
>

Sounds good - thanks. I had a bumpy experience with my first few books
that leaned on Sapir-Whorf, and I'm still a bit wary when it pops up nowadays.

Tony

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 01/07/2022 19.03, Tony Nance wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> >> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
> >>>> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> >>>> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> >>>> role in it.
> >>> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> >>> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> >>> that one or Triton.
> >>
> >> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by that name),
> >
> > Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
> >
> >> a more conservative poster
> >> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren. I, on the other hand, started it twice
> >> and could not finish it.
> >
> > That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> > with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> > And then I've put it back.
>
> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
>
> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
> one might expect from the title).
>

All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
protagonists lately.

And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
definitely start with the first).

Tony

On 04/07/2022 07.56, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

>> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
>> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
>> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
>> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
>>
>> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
>> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
>> one might expect from the title).
>>
>
> All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
> because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
> protagonists lately.
>
> And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
> You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
> definitely start with the first).

Thanks for the tip.

One other compound question. I've had _The Green Pearl_ on my shelves
for a number of years. Well, no need to be coy. For eight years.

Does this fall more towards the Demon Princes end of his spectrum or
the Dying Earth end? If the former, since it's the second in the
Lyonesse series, should I find and read _Suldrun's Garden_ first?
After all, there are tightly-coupled series and loosely-coupled series.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Deuteronomy 24:17

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 9:34:57 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 04/07/2022 07.56, Tony Nance wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
> >> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
> >> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
> >> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
> >> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
> >>
> >> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
> >> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
> >> one might expect from the title).
> >>
> >
> > All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
> > because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
> > protagonists lately.
> >
> > And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
> > You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
> > definitely start with the first).
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> One other compound question. I've had _The Green Pearl_ on my shelves
> for a number of years. Well, no need to be coy. For eight years.
>
> Does this fall more towards the Demon Princes end of his spectrum or
> the Dying Earth end? If the former, since it's the second in the
> Lyonesse series, should I find and read _Suldrun's Garden_ first?
> After all, there are tightly-coupled series and loosely-coupled series.

Thematically, Lyonesse is kind of its own thing - per Wikipedia, the
setting is:
"... in the mythical Elder Isles west of France and southwest of Britain,
a generation or two before the birth of King Arthur. The stories contain
references to Atlantis and Arthurian mythology ..."

In terms of tone & treatment, I'd put it more on the Dying Earth end,
primarily in the sense that the Lyonesse trilogy is fantasy, and the
Demon Princes series is planetary adventure. Definitely read Lyonesse
in order.

Tony

In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38-8f53-c8fbd23c097fn@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 01/07/2022 19.03, Tony Nance wrote:
>> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
>> >> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
>> >>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>
>> >>>> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
>> >>>> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
>> >>>> role in it.
>> >>> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
>> >>> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
>> >>> that one or Triton.
>> >>
>> >> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by
>that name),
>> >
>> > Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
>> >
>> >> a more conservative poster
>> >> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren.
>I, on the other hand, started it twice
>> >> and could not finish it.
>> >
>> > That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
>> > with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
>> > And then I've put it back.
>>
>> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
>> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
>> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
>> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
>>
>> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
>> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
>> one might expect from the title).
>>
>
>All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
>because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
>protagonists lately.
>
>And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
>You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
>definitely start with the first).
>

To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
different sort of animal.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <t9uq9s$3cufs$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 04/07/2022 07.56, Tony Nance wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
>>> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
>>> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
>>> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
>>> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
>>>
>>> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
>>> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
>>> one might expect from the title).
>>>
>>
>> All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
>> because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
>> protagonists lately.
>>
>> And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
>> You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
>> definitely start with the first).
>
>Thanks for the tip.
>
>One other compound question. I've had _The Green Pearl_ on my shelves
>for a number of years. Well, no need to be coy. For eight years.
>
>Does this fall more towards the Demon Princes end of his spectrum or
>the Dying Earth end? If the former, since it's the second in the
>Lyonesse series, should I find and read _Suldrun's Garden_ first?
>After all, there are tightly-coupled series and loosely-coupled series.
>

Lyonesse is fantasy, but in a completely different mood & mode than
The Dying Earth(*). It's been quite a while, but in my memory the books
are rather loosely coupled.

(*) Though he does manage to work in one of the classic dirty jokes, which
seemed like something that might have involved Cugel
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 11:54:11 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> On 01/07/2022 19.03, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> >> >> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> >>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
> >> >>>> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
> >> >>>> role in it.
> >> >>> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
> >> >>> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
> >> >>> that one or Triton.
> >> >>
> >> >> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by
> >that name),
> >> >
> >> > Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
> >> >
> >> >> a more conservative poster
> >> >> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren.
> >I, on the other hand, started it twice
> >> >> and could not finish it.
> >> >
> >> > That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
> >> > with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
> >> > And then I've put it back.
> >>
> >> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
> >> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
> >> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
> >> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
> >>
> >> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
> >> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
> >> one might expect from the title).
> >>
> >
> >All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
> >because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
> >protagonists lately.
> >
> >And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
> >You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
> >definitely start with the first).
> >
> To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
> focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
> different sort of animal.
>

Yepyep - I was overly terse: I agreed with your idea & description
of "High Vance", and I was adding The Demon Princes as another
example. I also agree that Planet of Adventure and The Demon
Princes are different animals, but both are pretty far from
The Dying Earth.

Tony

In article <54e72cf4-42dc-4eee-b4b4-eb010c1d1340n@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 11:54:11 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> >> On 01/07/2022 19.03, Tony Nance wrote:
>> >> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:11:39 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
>> >> >> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:38:23 PM UTC-4, Tony Nance wrote:
>> >> >>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>> I seem to recall that you like at least some Delany. Have you read
>> >> >>>> _Babel-17_? The unmentioned Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis plays a similar
>> >> >>>> role in it.
>> >> >>> True that I have liked some Delany. I have not read Babel-17,
>> >> >>> but I do have it. I was thinking my next Delany might be
>> >> >>> that one or Triton.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> David Dwyer-Bennet (no doubt misspelled, as I can't find him by
>> >that name),
>> >> >
>> >> > Remove the 'w' and you're 100% accurate.
>> >> >
>> >> >> a more conservative poster
>> >> >> than I, liked this and called it a "return to form" after Dhalgren.
>> >I, on the other hand, started it twice
>> >> >> and could not finish it.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's interesting, because twice I've grabbed Triton off my shelves
>> >> > with the specific intention of it being The Very Next Book I'm Reading.
>> >> > And then I've put it back.
>> >>
>> >> Well, I would say that between _Triton_ and _Babel-17_, the former has
>> >> the clearer narrative. On the other hand, the protagonist is a truly
>> >> messed-up person. His/her internal narrative is like watching a slo-mo
>> >> train wreck. But, the story had a lot of sensa-wunda.
>> >>
>> >> _Babel-17_ has strange characters, but they're more or less likable.
>> >> And, as I mentioned above, linguistics plays a non-trivial role (as
>> >> one might expect from the title).
>> >>
>> >
>> >All very helpful - thanks. I'm leaning toward Babel-17, partly
>> >because I've been running across a few too many hard-to-like
>> >protagonists lately.
>> >
>> >And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
>> >You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
>> >definitely start with the first).
>> >
>> To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
>> focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
>> different sort of animal.
>>
>
>Yepyep - I was overly terse: I agreed with your idea & description
>of "High Vance", and I was adding The Demon Princes as another
>example. I also agree that Planet of Adventure and The Demon
>Princes are different animals, but both are pretty far from
>The Dying Earth.
>

True that!

It's probably time for me to go on a Vance re-read.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 04/07/2022 12.46, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <54e72cf4-42dc-4eee-b4b4-eb010c1d1340n@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 11:54:11 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
>>>> You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
>>>> definitely start with the first).
>>>>
>>> To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
>>> focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
>>> different sort of animal.

>> Yepyep - I was overly terse: I agreed with your idea & description
>> of "High Vance", and I was adding The Demon Princes as another
>> example. I also agree that Planet of Adventure and The Demon
>> Princes are different animals, but both are pretty far from
>> The Dying Earth.
>>
>
> True that!
>
> It's probably time for me to go on a Vance re-read.

Okay, I have put _The Star King_ and _City of the Chasch_ on my
"to buy" list.

Thanks to both of you.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38-8f53-c8fbd23c097fn@googlegroups.com>,
>Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

>>
>>And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
>>You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
>>definitely start with the first).
>>
>
>To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
>focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
>different sort of animal.

Based on this thread, I read _The Last Castle_ (one-dimensional morality tale)
and started Lyonesse. The later is a bit of a slog at the beginning with
info-dump after info-dump. It's starting to get somewhat interesting, but hasn't
grabbed me at all; not sure if it's worth continuing.

On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 9:57:07 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
> >In article <56b8573f-e6f1-4d38...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
> >>
> >>And I'll echo/second what Ted and William said else-thread.
> >>You may want to look into The Demon Princes (five books,
> >>definitely start with the first).
> >>
> >
> >To be clear, I namechecked the "Planet Of Adventure" series as more
> >focused High Vance. The Demon Princes is very good, but is a rather
> >different sort of animal.
>
> Based on this thread, I read _The Last Castle_ (one-dimensional morality tale)
> and started Lyonesse. The later is a bit of a slog at the beginning with
> info-dump after info-dump. It's starting to get somewhat interesting, but hasn't
> grabbed me at all; not sure if it's worth continuing.
>

I've enjoyed almost all of the Vance I've read -- including Lyonesse -- but I'd
also say that the Lyonesse stuff never really grabbed me. It wouldn't be on
my shortlist of recommendations to people new to Vance or looking for
more Vance.

Just my 2 cents - ymmv,
Tony