On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:31:11 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>I'll bet Trump was steamed at the very /thought/ of any Afghan
>interpreters' being evacuated. His plan was, of course, to leave them
>/all/ behind. After all, they aren't Norwegians.

Whereas the Canadian Forces say it's a national disgrace ANY
interpreters were left behind because for most of them, the promise of
eventual immigration to Canada was the primary reason they served.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 22:06:52 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 6/15/2022 11:28 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 18:55:38 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> Russia and China are already using a private exchange for Russian oil.
>>>> Are you going to tell China that they cannot buy Russian oil anymore ?
>>>> Are you going to tell India that they cannot buy Russian oil anymore ?
>>>> Please let me know when you do so, I want to watch from a very safe
>>>> distance.
>>>
>>> Have the sanctions already done so? Or are they excepted?
>>>
>>> Also, if (as others have reported) China and India have no remaining
>>> internal supplies, won't that "encourage" them to /use/ what the get
>>> rather than sell it elsewhere?
>>
>>Russia has shut down the natural gas pipelines to Europe.
>
>I'm sure that's news to both the Russians and the Europeans;
>the Russians reduced the Nordstream 1 to 40% capacity claiming
>difficulties with siemens equipment at a pumping station.
>
>https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-minister-accuses-russia-finding-excuse-cut-nord-stream-1-gas-2022-06-15/
>
>_Ukraine_ has shutdown a pipeline that transits Ukraine, but Russian
>CH4 is still being sent to Europe.
>
>https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-cuts-off-russian-natural-gas-pipeline-supplying-europe-/6567439.html
>
>TFA notes the claim by Ukraine that enemy forces were interfering with the
>hub, including siphoning off gas as the reason for the shutdown.

IOW, the claim you are responding to is just another Putin Talking
Point. Being spread by a faithful follower.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 7:29:19 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > Sooner or later somebody is going to have to take the hit to disarm a
> > loon who has nuclear weapons. If the mighty unconquerable Russia is
> > the first to go, that might just serve as a useful object lesson to
> > the lesser tinpot dictators.

> I doubt there are going to be any volunteers for that among the
> existing countries with nuclear weapons. People and countries
> just don't work that way; each nation of people thinks itself to be
> the most important representatives of humanity, the survival of
> whom alone gives the world its meaning.

I am also amused that when I asked, before this whole thing started,
that the U.S. simply deploy troops to the borders of Ukraine, so that
_nothing would have happened_ - because they were there, everything
would have been peaceful, just as East Germany didn't invade West
Germany during the Cold War - this was asking, oh, too much of the
poor United States... whereas you have no shame to ask some other
country to make the ultimate sacrifice.

But then I may be getting Lynn's reaction mixed up with yours.

John Savard

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 07:57:34 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 7:29:19 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> > Sooner or later somebody is going to have to take the hit to disarm a
>> > loon who has nuclear weapons. If the mighty unconquerable Russia is
>> > the first to go, that might just serve as a useful object lesson to
>> > the lesser tinpot dictators.
>
>> I doubt there are going to be any volunteers for that among the
>> existing countries with nuclear weapons. People and countries
>> just don't work that way; each nation of people thinks itself to be
>> the most important representatives of humanity, the survival of
>> whom alone gives the world its meaning.
>
>I am also amused that when I asked, before this whole thing started,
>that the U.S. simply deploy troops to the borders of Ukraine, so that
>_nothing would have happened_ - because they were there, everything
>would have been peaceful, just as East Germany didn't invade West
>Germany during the Cold War - this was asking, oh, too much of the
>poor United States... whereas you have no shame to ask some other
>country to make the ultimate sacrifice.

East Germany didn't invade West Germany because their Lords and
Masters, the Soviet Union, wouldn't let them, even if they had wanted
to do so.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 15:57:38 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 7:29:19 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> >
> > > Sooner or later somebody is going to have to take the hit to disarm a
> > > loon who has nuclear weapons. If the mighty unconquerable Russia is
> > > the first to go, that might just serve as a useful object lesson to
> > > the lesser tinpot dictators.
>
> > I doubt there are going to be any volunteers for that among the
> > existing countries with nuclear weapons. People and countries
> > just don't work that way; each nation of people thinks itself to be
> > the most important representatives of humanity, the survival of
> > whom alone gives the world its meaning.
> I am also amused that when I asked, before this whole thing started,
> that the U.S. simply deploy troops to the borders of Ukraine, so that
> _nothing would have happened_ - because they were there, everything
> would have been peaceful, just as East Germany didn't invade West
> Germany during the Cold War - this was asking, oh, too much of the
> poor United States... whereas you have no shame to ask some other
> country to make the ultimate sacrifice.
>
> But then I may be getting Lynn's reaction mixed up with yours.

Well, "this thing started" in 2014 - or arguably in 2013
when Ukraine's government swivelled from the EU
towards Russia but then fell to popular opposition
to the move. And then the war started. It didn't
actually stop between then and now.

There wasn't a lot of time for U.S. troops to be
sent in and be shot at.

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 9:42:42 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 07:57:34 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> >I am also amused that when I asked, before this whole thing started,
> >that the U.S. simply deploy troops to the borders of Ukraine, so that
> >_nothing would have happened_ - because they were there, everything
> >would have been peaceful, just as East Germany didn't invade West
> >Germany during the Cold War - this was asking, oh, too much of the
> >poor United States... whereas you have no shame to ask some other
> >country to make the ultimate sacrifice.

> East Germany didn't invade West Germany because their Lords and
> Masters, the Soviet Union, wouldn't let them, even if they had wanted
> to do so.

I had intended to say that the NATO troops in the German Federal Republic
deterred the Soviet rulers; not that they deterred Ernst Honecker, even though
I used words that gave the appearance of meaning otherwise.

I apologize for not making this distinction clear, I thought it was not
necessary.

John Savard

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:24:18 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 15:57:38 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:

> > I am also amused that when I asked, before this whole thing started,
> > that the U.S. simply deploy troops to the borders of Ukraine, so that
> > _nothing would have happened_ - because they were there, everything
> > would have been peaceful, just as East Germany didn't invade West
> > Germany during the Cold War - this was asking, oh, too much of the
> > poor United States... whereas you have no shame to ask some other
> > country to make the ultimate sacrifice.

> > But then I may be getting Lynn's reaction mixed up with yours.

> Well, "this thing started" in 2014 - or arguably in 2013
> when Ukraine's government swivelled from the EU
> towards Russia but then fell to popular opposition
> to the move. And then the war started. It didn't
> actually stop between then and now.

> There wasn't a lot of time for U.S. troops to be
> sent in and be shot at.

Since my perception of the conflict in the Ukraine is based on
what I see in the news media, and not satellite images and that
sort of thing, I had imagined that Russia seized Crimea, and then
there was a long period of quiet during which U.S. troops could
have been deployed; then Russia made its first foray into
Donetsk and Luhansk, with "volunteers" out of uniform, and then
there was more quiet between then and the current invasion
aimed at all of the Ukraine.

John Savard