In article <t98or3$3pfnc$1@dont-email.me>,
Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote:
>
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I thought I had a copy of "Guards ! Guards ! Guards !" in my SBR
>>>but I cannot find it now.
>>>
>>
>>That's a very good book, but it's not a Stross.
>
>It's where I would recommend a lot of people start Discworld.
>
>
>Brian

Yeah, I would agree with that.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 26 Jun 2022, Robert Woodward wrote
(in article<robertaw-6BFC6D.21530825062022@news.individual.net>):

> In article<0001HW.2867AB8802A0B5DB7000060FC38F@news.supernews.com>,
> Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>
> > On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1-93af-e85644e0faa9n@googlegroups.com>):
> >
> > > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > > On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
> > > > [snip-snip]
> > > > These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> > > > "Laundry Files" books.
> > >
> > > We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUXqY
> > > J
>
> (SNIP!)
> > >
> > > 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
> > > notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily mean
> > > that there aren’t any.)
> >
> > There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
> > weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into
> > action
> > and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
> > breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
>
> Which book was this in? The last one had Agent Franks firing a 20mm
> cannon (which was probably close to 2 meters in length), but Franks is a
> special case.

I don’t remember. I stopped reading the series shortly after that book, and
I’ve never read a story with Franks and a 20mm gun. Now, I’d have no
problems with Franks hauling a Lahti around.

On 25 Jun 2022, pete...@gmail.com wrote
(in article<2645ba83-1ea9-4fff-ab9b-8dfd44309f0cn@googlegroups.com>):

> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 5:56:02 PM UTC-4, Wolffan wrote:
> > On 25 Jun 2022, Lynn McGuire wrote
> > (in article <t97ve6$3kf31$1...@dont-email.me>):
> > > On 6/25/2022 3:46 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> > > > On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > > > (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > > > > On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > > > "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
> > > > > > [snip-snip]
> > > > > > These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> > > > > > "Laundry Files" books.
> > > > >
> > > > > We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUX
> > > > > qY
> > > > > J
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is the original text of my post:
> > > > >
> > > > > The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
> > > > > about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
> > > > > Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
> > > > > Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
> > > > >
> > > > > There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
> > > > > listed after...
> > > > >
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. They are first (published) novels.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The universes are explicitly Lovecraftian.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. They are both secret histories.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. They are aimed at a particular target audience: gun nuts and
> > > > > computer geeks respectively.
> > > >
> > > > Corriea’s boy is an uber gun nut _and_ a compurt geek.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. The Lovecraftian horrors want to invade Earth and take over.
> > > >
> > > > They already own several versions of Earth. In Corriea’s story, they
> > > > aren’t the only ones who want to take over. Even the elves would, except
> > > > that they’d have to stir out of the trailer park and actually make an
> > > > effort.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6. The protagonists are in their mid-twenties, male, very good at what
> > > > > they do and have a “problem with authority”. (They also pursue and
> > > > > get
> > > > > the girl, but that’s not exactly uncommon.)
> > > >
> > > > In Corriea’s story the girl is a bigger uber gun nut than the protag.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 7. The protagonists are Mary Sues with some minor flaws: obesity in
> > > > > _MHI_ and alcohol abuse in _tAA_.
> > > >
> > > > m’man’s not fat, he’s just big boned.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 8. In addition to the Lovecraftian horrors, there is other magic afoot:
> > > > > vampires, werewolves, etc in _MHI_ and Hands of Glory/gorgons/geasa in
> > > > > _tAA_.
> > > >
> > > > there are _lots_ of other magical/monstrous creatures roaming Corriea’s
> > > > world. Vampires. Werewolves. Minotaurs (except that they ain’t no Greek
> > > > pansies, they’re _bullmen_, _Texas_ bullmen, and will take a major
> > > > dislike
> > > > to you if you forget it; one xter has a thought about whether females are
> > > > ‘cowwomen’ or just heifers but thinks better of asking. There’s also
> > > > some speculation about where said females keep their mammary glands, but
> > > > no-one asked about that, either.). Orcs, who like Russian helos and heavy
> > > > metal music. (The elves like country& western.) Zombies. Pretty much
> > > > every
> > > > magical monster you ever heard of from Greeco-Roman, Germanic, Hindi,
> > > > Arab,
> > > > Native American and especially Mexican, Caribbean, West African (not the
> > > > same
> > > > as Caribbean, but related), Japanese, Korean (not the same but related),
> > > > Chinese, Persian, and South East Asian mythologies. The Monster Hunters
> > > > spend
> > > > a lot of time chasing the various monsters down, often with the help of
> > > > some
> > > > of the monsters, particularly orcs, elves, bullmen, and a couple vampires
> > > > and
> > > > werewolves. This is one of the ways that MHI doesn’t behave like the
> > > > Laundry. Methods and motives and monsters. (Note that the vampires help
> > > > when
> > > > they feel like it, and for their own reasons, which might not mesh with
> > > > MHI’s reasons.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 9. The laws of physics still apply, but are “expanded” to allow for
> > > > > magic
> > > > > and such.
> > > >
> > > > Orcs can make Russian helos do things which are totally impossible.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 10. The Lovecraftian horrors are opposed by two teams: “The Good
> > > > > Guys”
> > > > > and “The Bad Guys”. The “Bad Guys” are government bureaucracies:
> > > > > the
> > > > > jackbooted thugs from an FBI clone in _MHI_ and some parts of the Laundry
> > > > > bureaucracy in _tAA_.
> > > > >
> > > > > 11. Pretty much everyone is at least moderately unpleasant. You know
> > > > > it’s
> > > > > bad when you are tempted to start rooting for the nameless horrors from
> > > > > beyond space and time.
> > > > >
> > > > > And here are some of the differences:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Stross has a lot more balls in the air: Dilbert, Deighton,
> > > > > Lovecraft, Stephenson, the works.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Correia’s protagonist is a much bigger Mary Sue, often annoyingly
> > > > > so.
> > > >
> > > > he’s a Marty Stu. The Marty Stu of all Marty Stus.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
> > > > > notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily
> > > > > mean
> > > > > that there aren’t any.)
> > > >
> > > > There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
> > > > weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into
> > > > action
> > > > and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
> > > > breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
> > >
> > > Isn't it a recoilless rifle on wheels ?
> > it had wheels, but it most definitely was not recoilless.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39 and, in any case, the wheels
> > weren’t much help, she was hauling it upstairs.
> >
> > Note that in Finnish service it was often towed by horses. It’s a big,
> > big,
> > BIG gun.
> >
> > I think that there was an incident with a 106mm recoilless and one of the
> > larger Great Old Ones. 106mm recoillesses were a lot easier to move around
> > than Lahtis, and easier to shoot, but were usually jeep (or
> > Ontoshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos) mounted.
>
> Did this guy ride a Vespa 150 TAP?
> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP
>
> Pt

On 6/25/2022 7:30 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 6/25/2022 2:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 6/25/2022 3:30 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> On 25/06/2022 12.30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 6/25/2022 10:58 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>> "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
>>>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>> These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
>>>>>> "Laundry Files" books.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUXqYJ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the original text of my post:
>>>>>
>>>>> The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
>>>>> about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
>>>>> Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
>>>>> Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
>>>>>
>>>>> There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which
>>>>> are
>>>>> listed after...
>>>
>>>> I may have to try the Stross books some day.
>>>>
>>>> I do have one in my SBR.
>>>
>>> Do you know which it is? People might be able to advise you
>>> based on your known preferences.
>>
>> I thought I had a copy of "Guards ! Guards ! Guards !" in my SBR but I
>> cannot find it now.
>>
> That would be one of Pratchett's Discworld books.  And its only two
> "Guards!".

Thanks ! Like I said, I could not find it in my SBR which is triple
stacked and difficult to maneuver in.

Lynn

On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 9:49:53 PM UTC+1, Wolffan wrote:
> On 25 Jun 2022, pete...@gmail.com wrote
> (in article<2645ba83-1ea9-4fff...@googlegroups.com>):
> > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 5:56:02 PM UTC-4, Wolffan wrote:
> > > On 25 Jun 2022, Lynn McGuire wrote
> > > (in article <t97ve6$3kf31$1...@dont-email.me>):
> > > > On 6/25/2022 3:46 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> > > > > On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > > > > (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> > > > > > > On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
> > > > > > > [snip-snip]
> > > > > > > These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> > > > > > > "Laundry Files" books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
> > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUX
> > > > > > qY
> > > > > > J
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is the original text of my post:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
> > > > > > about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
> > > > > > Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
> > > > > > Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
> > > > > > listed after...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. They are first (published) novels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The universes are explicitly Lovecraftian.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. They are both secret histories.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4. They are aimed at a particular target audience: gun nuts and
> > > > > > computer geeks respectively.
> > > > >
> > > > > Corriea’s boy is an uber gun nut _and_ a compurt geek.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 5. The Lovecraftian horrors want to invade Earth and take over.
> > > > >
> > > > > They already own several versions of Earth. In Corriea’s story, they
> > > > > aren’t the only ones who want to take over. Even the elves would, except
> > > > > that they’d have to stir out of the trailer park and actually make an
> > > > > effort.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 6. The protagonists are in their mid-twenties, male, very good at what
> > > > > > they do and have a “problem with authority”. (They also pursue and
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > the girl, but that’s not exactly uncommon.)
> > > > >
> > > > > In Corriea’s story the girl is a bigger uber gun nut than the protag.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 7. The protagonists are Mary Sues with some minor flaws: obesity in
> > > > > > _MHI_ and alcohol abuse in _tAA_.
> > > > >
> > > > > m’man’s not fat, he’s just big boned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 8. In addition to the Lovecraftian horrors, there is other magic afoot:
> > > > > > vampires, werewolves, etc in _MHI_ and Hands of Glory/gorgons/geasa in
> > > > > > _tAA_.
> > > > >
> > > > > there are _lots_ of other magical/monstrous creatures roaming Corriea’s
> > > > > world. Vampires. Werewolves. Minotaurs (except that they ain’t no Greek
> > > > > pansies, they’re _bullmen_, _Texas_ bullmen, and will take a major
> > > > > dislike
> > > > > to you if you forget it; one xter has a thought about whether females are
> > > > > ‘cowwomen’ or just heifers but thinks better of asking. There’s also
> > > > > some speculation about where said females keep their mammary glands, but
> > > > > no-one asked about that, either.). Orcs, who like Russian helos and heavy
> > > > > metal music. (The elves like country& western.) Zombies. Pretty much
> > > > > every
> > > > > magical monster you ever heard of from Greeco-Roman, Germanic, Hindi,
> > > > > Arab,
> > > > > Native American and especially Mexican, Caribbean, West African (not the
> > > > > same
> > > > > as Caribbean, but related), Japanese, Korean (not the same but related),
> > > > > Chinese, Persian, and South East Asian mythologies. The Monster Hunters
> > > > > spend
> > > > > a lot of time chasing the various monsters down, often with the help of
> > > > > some
> > > > > of the monsters, particularly orcs, elves, bullmen, and a couple vampires
> > > > > and
> > > > > werewolves. This is one of the ways that MHI doesn’t behave like the
> > > > > Laundry. Methods and motives and monsters. (Note that the vampires help
> > > > > when
> > > > > they feel like it, and for their own reasons, which might not mesh with
> > > > > MHI’s reasons.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 9. The laws of physics still apply, but are “expanded” to allow for
> > > > > > magic
> > > > > > and such.
> > > > >
> > > > > Orcs can make Russian helos do things which are totally impossible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 10. The Lovecraftian horrors are opposed by two teams: “The Good
> > > > > > Guys”
> > > > > > and “The Bad Guys”. The “Bad Guys” are government bureaucracies:
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > jackbooted thugs from an FBI clone in _MHI_ and some parts of the Laundry
> > > > > > bureaucracy in _tAA_.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 11. Pretty much everyone is at least moderately unpleasant. You know
> > > > > > it’s
> > > > > > bad when you are tempted to start rooting for the nameless horrors from
> > > > > > beyond space and time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And here are some of the differences:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Stross has a lot more balls in the air: Dilbert, Deighton,
> > > > > > Lovecraft, Stephenson, the works.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Correia’s protagonist is a much bigger Mary Sue, often annoyingly
> > > > > > so.
> > > > >
> > > > > he’s a Marty Stu. The Marty Stu of all Marty Stus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
> > > > > > notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily
> > > > > > mean
> > > > > > that there aren’t any.)
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
> > > > > weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into
> > > > > action
> > > > > and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
> > > > > breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it a recoilless rifle on wheels ?
> > > it had wheels, but it most definitely was not recoilless.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39 and, in any case, the wheels
> > > weren’t much help, she was hauling it upstairs.
> > >
> > > Note that in Finnish service it was often towed by horses. It’s a big,
> > > big,
> > > BIG gun.
> > >
> > > I think that there was an incident with a 106mm recoilless and one of the
> > > larger Great Old Ones. 106mm recoillesses were a lot easier to move around
> > > than Lahtis, and easier to shoot, but were usually jeep (or
> > > Ontoshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos) mounted.
> >
> > Did this guy ride a Vespa 150 TAP?
> > https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP
> >
> > Pt
> Our Hero would break that poor little scooter. And a 75mm recoilless would
> probably just annoy most of the monsters.
I haven't read much of the main MHI series, but I did notice that all of these lovingly described guns seem to be surprisingly ineffective

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:
>On 25/06/2022 12.30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 6/25/2022 10:58 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>> On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>> These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
>>>> "Laundry Files" books.
>>>
>>> We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUXqYJ
>>>
>>> Here is the original text of my post:
>>>
>>> The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
>>> about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
>>> Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
>>> Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
>>>
>>> There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
>>> listed after...
>
>> I may have to try the Stross books some day.
>>
>> I do have one in my SBR.
>
>Do you know which it is? People might be able to advise you
>based on your known preferences.

Personally, I like Stross' Merchant Princes books better than the
_Laundry Files_ (never did get into lovecraft much). Although the
Cheney bits are a bit over the top, they're in character :-)

On 27 Jun 2022, Andrew McDowell wrote
(in article<f0599708-833b-4460-8c64-17b7355ea29cn@googlegroups.com>):

> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 9:49:53 PM UTC+1, Wolffan wrote:
> > On 25 Jun 2022, pete...@gmail.com wrote
> > (in article<2645ba83-1ea9-4fff...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 5:56:02 PM UTC-4, Wolffan wrote:
> > > > On 25 Jun 2022, Lynn McGuire wrote
> > > > (in article <t97ve6$3kf31$1...@dont-email.me>):
> > > > > On 6/25/2022 3:46 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> > > > > > On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > > > > > (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
> > > > > > > > [snip-snip]
> > > > > > > > These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> > > > > > > > "Laundry Files" books.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
> > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjg
> > > > > > > UX
> > > > > > > qY
> > > > > > > J
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is the original text of my post:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
> > > > > > > about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
> > > > > > > Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
> > > > > > > Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
> > > > > > > listed after...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > > SPOILER WARNING
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. They are first (published) novels.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The universes are explicitly Lovecraftian.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. They are both secret histories.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 4. They are aimed at a particular target audience: gun nuts and
> > > > > > > computer geeks respectively.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Corriea’s boy is an uber gun nut _and_ a compurt geek.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 5. The Lovecraftian horrors want to invade Earth and take over.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They already own several versions of Earth. In Corriea’s story, they
> > > > > > aren’t the only ones who want to take over. Even the elves would,
> > > > > > except
> > > > > > that they’d have to stir out of the trailer park and actually make an
> > > > > > effort.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 6. The protagonists are in their mid-twenties, male, very good at what
> > > > > > > they do and have a “problem with authority”. (They also pursue and
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > the girl, but that’s not exactly uncommon.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Corriea’s story the girl is a bigger uber gun nut than the protag.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 7. The protagonists are Mary Sues with some minor flaws: obesity in
> > > > > > > _MHI_ and alcohol abuse in _tAA_.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > m’man’s not fat, he’s just big boned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 8. In addition to the Lovecraftian horrors, there is other magic afoot:
> > > > > > > vampires, werewolves, etc in _MHI_ and Hands of Glory/gorgons/geasa in
> > > > > > > _tAA_.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there are _lots_ of other magical/monstrous creatures roaming
> > > > > > Corriea’s
> > > > > > world. Vampires. Werewolves. Minotaurs (except that they ain’t no
> > > > > > Greek
> > > > > > pansies, they’re _bullmen_, _Texas_ bullmen, and will take a major
> > > > > > dislike
> > > > > > to you if you forget it; one xter has a thought about whether females
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > ‘cowwomen’ or just heifers but thinks better of asking. There’s
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > some speculation about where said females keep their mammary glands, but
> > > > > > no-one asked about that, either.). Orcs, who like Russian helos and
> > > > > > heavy
> > > > > > metal music. (The elves like country& western.) Zombies. Pretty much
> > > > > > every
> > > > > > magical monster you ever heard of from Greeco-Roman, Germanic, Hindi,
> > > > > > Arab,
> > > > > > Native American and especially Mexican, Caribbean, West African (not the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > as Caribbean, but related), Japanese, Korean (not the same but related),
> > > > > > Chinese, Persian, and South East Asian mythologies. The Monster Hunters
> > > > > > spend
> > > > > > a lot of time chasing the various monsters down, often with the help of
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > of the monsters, particularly orcs, elves, bullmen, and a couple
> > > > > > vampires
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > werewolves. This is one of the ways that MHI doesn’t behave like the
> > > > > > Laundry. Methods and motives and monsters. (Note that the vampires help
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > they feel like it, and for their own reasons, which might not mesh with
> > > > > > MHI’s reasons.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 9. The laws of physics still apply, but are “expanded” to allow for
> > > > > > > magic
> > > > > > > and such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Orcs can make Russian helos do things which are totally impossible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 10. The Lovecraftian horrors are opposed by two teams: “The Good
> > > > > > > Guys”
> > > > > > > and “The Bad Guys”. The “Bad Guys” are government
> > > > > > > bureaucracies:
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > jackbooted thugs from an FBI clone in _MHI_ and some parts of the
> > > > > > > Laundry
> > > > > > > bureaucracy in _tAA_.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 11. Pretty much everyone is at least moderately unpleasant. You know
> > > > > > > it’s
> > > > > > > bad when you are tempted to start rooting for the nameless horrors from
> > > > > > > beyond space and time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And here are some of the differences:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Stross has a lot more balls in the air: Dilbert, Deighton,
> > > > > > > Lovecraft, Stephenson, the works.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. Correia’s protagonist is a much bigger Mary Sue, often annoyingly
> > > > > > > so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > he’s a Marty Stu. The Marty Stu of all Marty Stus.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
> > > > > > > notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily
> > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > that there aren’t any.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
> > > > > > weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into
> > > > > > action
> > > > > > and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
> > > > > > breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't it a recoilless rifle on wheels ?
> > > > it had wheels, but it most definitely was not recoilless.
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39 and, in any case, the wheels
> > > > weren’t much help, she was hauling it upstairs.
> > > >
> > > > Note that in Finnish service it was often towed by horses. It’s a big,
> > > > big,
> > > > BIG gun.
> > > >
> > > > I think that there was an incident with a 106mm recoilless and one of the
> > > > larger Great Old Ones. 106mm recoillesses were a lot easier to move around
> > > > than Lahtis, and easier to shoot, but were usually jeep (or
> > > > Ontoshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos) mounted.
> > >
> > > Did this guy ride a Vespa 150 TAP?
> > > https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP
> > >
> > > Pt
> > Our Hero would break that poor little scooter. And a 75mm recoilless would
> > probably just annoy most of the monsters.
> I haven't read much of the main MHI series, but I did notice that all of
> these lovingly described guns seem to be surprisingly ineffective

On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:41:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 6/25/2022 3:46 PM, Wolffan wrote:
>> On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
>> (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1-93af-e85644e0faa9n@googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>> On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>> These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
>>>> "Laundry Files" books.
>>>
>>> We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUXqYJ
>>>
>>> Here is the original text of my post:
>>>
>>> The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
>>> about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
>>> Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
>>> Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle".
>>>
>>> There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
>>> listed after...
>>>
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>> SPOILER WARNING
>>>
>>> 1. They are first (published) novels.
>>>
>>> 2. The universes are explicitly Lovecraftian.
>>>
>>> 3. They are both secret histories.
>>>
>>> 4. They are aimed at a particular target audience: gun nuts and
>>> computer geeks respectively.
>>
>> Corriea’s boy is an uber gun nut _and_ a compurt geek.
>>>
>>>
>>> 5. The Lovecraftian horrors want to invade Earth and take over.
>>
>> They already own several versions of Earth. In Corriea’s story, they
>> aren’t the only ones who want to take over. Even the elves would, except
>> that they’d have to stir out of the trailer park and actually make an
>> effort.
>>>
>>>
>>> 6. The protagonists are in their mid-twenties, male, very good at what
>>> they do and have a “problem with authority”. (They also pursue and get
>>> the girl, but that’s not exactly uncommon.)
>>
>> In Corriea’s story the girl is a bigger uber gun nut than the protag.
>>>
>>>
>>> 7. The protagonists are Mary Sues with some minor flaws: obesity in
>>> _MHI_ and alcohol abuse in _tAA_.
>>
>> m’man’s not fat, he’s just big boned.
>>>
>>>
>>> 8. In addition to the Lovecraftian horrors, there is other magic afoot:
>>> vampires, werewolves, etc in _MHI_ and Hands of Glory/gorgons/geasa in
>>> _tAA_.
>>
>> there are _lots_ of other magical/monstrous creatures roaming Corriea’s
>> world. Vampires. Werewolves. Minotaurs (except that they ain’t no Greek
>> pansies, they’re _bullmen_, _Texas_ bullmen, and will take a major dislike
>> to you if you forget it; one xter has a thought about whether females are
>> ‘cowwomen’ or just heifers but thinks better of asking. There’s also
>> some speculation about where said females keep their mammary glands, but
>> no-one asked about that, either.). Orcs, who like Russian helos and heavy
>> metal music. (The elves like country& western.) Zombies. Pretty much every
>> magical monster you ever heard of from Greeco-Roman, Germanic, Hindi, Arab,
>> Native American and especially Mexican, Caribbean, West African (not the same
>> as Caribbean, but related), Japanese, Korean (not the same but related),
>> Chinese, Persian, and South East Asian mythologies. The Monster Hunters spend
>> a lot of time chasing the various monsters down, often with the help of some
>> of the monsters, particularly orcs, elves, bullmen, and a couple vampires and
>> werewolves. This is one of the ways that MHI doesn’t behave like the
>> Laundry. Methods and motives and monsters. (Note that the vampires help when
>> they feel like it, and for their own reasons, which might not mesh with
>> MHI’s reasons.)
>>>
>>>
>>> 9. The laws of physics still apply, but are “expanded” to allow for magic
>>> and such.
>>
>> Orcs can make Russian helos do things which are totally impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>> 10. The Lovecraftian horrors are opposed by two teams: “The Good Guys”
>>> and “The Bad Guys”. The “Bad Guys” are government bureaucracies: the
>>> jackbooted thugs from an FBI clone in _MHI_ and some parts of the Laundry
>>> bureaucracy in _tAA_.
>>>
>>> 11. Pretty much everyone is at least moderately unpleasant. You know it’s
>>> bad when you are tempted to start rooting for the nameless horrors from
>>> beyond space and time.
>>>
>>> And here are some of the differences:
>>>
>>> 1. Stross has a lot more balls in the air: Dilbert, Deighton,
>>> Lovecraft, Stephenson, the works.
>>>
>>> 2. Correia’s protagonist is a much bigger Mary Sue, often annoyingly so.
>>
>> he’s a Marty Stu. The Marty Stu of all Marty Stus.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
>>> notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily mean
>>> that there aren’t any.)
>>
>> There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
>> weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into action
>> and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
>> breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
>
>Isn't it a recoilless rifle on wheels ?

No. It's a conventional rifle on skids. It weighs more than twice as
much as a 57mm recoilless, which while it isn't light by any means can
be shoulder-fired and has occasionally been used for hunting. If the
tax on each round didn't make it insanely expensive to shoot it would
be good medicine for your pigs. Any critter you shoot with a 57mm
stays shot.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:41:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 6/25/2022 3:46 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> >> On 25 Jun 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> >> (in article<00b2d0e1-204a-47e1...@googlegroups.com>):
> >>
> >>> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:57:27 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >>>> On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>>>> "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
> >>>> [snip-snip]
> >>>> These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> >>>> "Laundry Files" books.
> >>>
> >>> We had a discussion of the two series back in 2013 -- see
> >>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/4iKXiwcuYGs/m/JQ-TPjgUXqYJ
> >>>
> >>> Here is the original text of my post:
> >>>
> >>> The last couple of threads about Correia and Stross got me thinking
> >>> about their first novels, _Monster Hunter International_ and _The
> >>> Atrocity Archive_. The latter was also published in _The Atrocity
> >>> Archives_, which collects _tAA_ and the novella "The Concrete Jungle"..
> >>>
> >>> There are quite a few similarities between the two universes, which are
> >>> listed after...
> >>>
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>> SPOILER WARNING
> >>>
> >>> 1. They are first (published) novels.
> >>>
> >>> 2. The universes are explicitly Lovecraftian.
> >>>
> >>> 3. They are both secret histories.
> >>>
> >>> 4. They are aimed at a particular target audience: gun nuts and
> >>> computer geeks respectively.
> >>
> >> Corriea’s boy is an uber gun nut _and_ a compurt geek.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 5. The Lovecraftian horrors want to invade Earth and take over.
> >>
> >> They already own several versions of Earth. In Corriea’s story, they
> >> aren’t the only ones who want to take over. Even the elves would, except
> >> that they’d have to stir out of the trailer park and actually make an
> >> effort.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 6. The protagonists are in their mid-twenties, male, very good at what
> >>> they do and have a “problem with authority”. (They also pursue and get
> >>> the girl, but that’s not exactly uncommon.)
> >>
> >> In Corriea’s story the girl is a bigger uber gun nut than the protag.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 7. The protagonists are Mary Sues with some minor flaws: obesity in
> >>> _MHI_ and alcohol abuse in _tAA_.
> >>
> >> m’man’s not fat, he’s just big boned.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 8. In addition to the Lovecraftian horrors, there is other magic afoot:
> >>> vampires, werewolves, etc in _MHI_ and Hands of Glory/gorgons/geasa in
> >>> _tAA_.
> >>
> >> there are _lots_ of other magical/monstrous creatures roaming Corriea’s
> >> world. Vampires. Werewolves. Minotaurs (except that they ain’t no Greek
> >> pansies, they’re _bullmen_, _Texas_ bullmen, and will take a major dislike
> >> to you if you forget it; one xter has a thought about whether females are
> >> ‘cowwomen’ or just heifers but thinks better of asking.. There’s also
> >> some speculation about where said females keep their mammary glands, but
> >> no-one asked about that, either.). Orcs, who like Russian helos and heavy
> >> metal music. (The elves like country& western.) Zombies. Pretty much every
> >> magical monster you ever heard of from Greeco-Roman, Germanic, Hindi, Arab,
> >> Native American and especially Mexican, Caribbean, West African (not the same
> >> as Caribbean, but related), Japanese, Korean (not the same but related),
> >> Chinese, Persian, and South East Asian mythologies. The Monster Hunters spend
> >> a lot of time chasing the various monsters down, often with the help of some
> >> of the monsters, particularly orcs, elves, bullmen, and a couple vampires and
> >> werewolves. This is one of the ways that MHI doesn’t behave like the
> >> Laundry. Methods and motives and monsters. (Note that the vampires help when
> >> they feel like it, and for their own reasons, which might not mesh with
> >> MHI’s reasons.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 9. The laws of physics still apply, but are “expanded” to allow for magic
> >>> and such.
> >>
> >> Orcs can make Russian helos do things which are totally impossible.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 10. The Lovecraftian horrors are opposed by two teams: “The Good Guys”
> >>> and “The Bad Guys”. The “Bad Guys” are government bureaucracies: the
> >>> jackbooted thugs from an FBI clone in _MHI_ and some parts of the Laundry
> >>> bureaucracy in _tAA_.
> >>>
> >>> 11. Pretty much everyone is at least moderately unpleasant. You know it’s
> >>> bad when you are tempted to start rooting for the nameless horrors from
> >>> beyond space and time.
> >>>
> >>> And here are some of the differences:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Stross has a lot more balls in the air: Dilbert, Deighton,
> >>> Lovecraft, Stephenson, the works.
> >>>
> >>> 2. Correia’s protagonist is a much bigger Mary Sue, often annoyingly so.
> >>
> >> he’s a Marty Stu. The Marty Stu of all Marty Stus.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 3. Stross makes some errors in the history/espionage area. I didn’t
> >>> notice any gun-related mistakes in _MHI_ (which doesn’t necessarily mean
> >>> that there aren’t any.)
> >>
> >> There’s the incident with the Finnish 20mm anti-tank rifle. That thing
> >> weighed about what Our Hero’s girlfriend weighed. She hauled it into action
> >> and used it, somehow avoiding rupturing herself when she moved it and
> >> breaking her shoulder and/or spine when she fired it.
> >
> >Isn't it a recoilless rifle on wheels ?
> No. It's a conventional rifle on skids. It weighs more than twice as
> much as a 57mm recoilless, which while it isn't light by any means can
> be shoulder-fired and has occasionally been used for hunting. If the
> tax on each round didn't make it insanely expensive to shoot it would
> be good medicine for your pigs. Any critter you shoot with a 57mm
> stays shot.
Practical experience with this would be relevant to David Drake's dinosaur hunting stories, which were in turn based on the memoirs of a very good shot who favoured very accurately placed shots with a relatively small calibre weapon. While as a non-armed forces British Citizen I have essentially no knowledge of such things, I would have thought that the apparently everyday choice in the US of an AR-15 style rifle would be a pretty practical choice.

On 2022-06-25 7:57 a.m., Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 24/06/2022 18.55, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Monster Hunter International" by Larry Correia
>
>
>> Owen Zastava Pitt has everything going for him, a new accounting
>> degree, a new accounting job in a large well respected company, and a
>> regular paycheck for the first time in his life.  But, his new boss is
>> a real jerk and then he turns into a werewolf when Owen is working
>> late one day.  The boss tries to eat Owen and Owen throws him out the
>> window of the 14th floor office building.  After Owen wakes up in the
>> hospital, Human Resources fires him for carrying a .357 revolver in
>> his sock without mentioning his werewolf boss.
>>
>> But when Owen woke up in the hospital, two government agents were
>> there to meet him.  After he did not turn into a werewolf, they left.
>> And then another guy showed up and explains that there are monsters in
>> the world, vampires, werewolves, orcs, elves, all kinds of creepy and
>> nasty things.  And offers him a job.  As a monster hunter.
>
> These two paragraphs make it sound reminiscent of Stross'
> "Laundry Files" books.
>

Since it's Correia it will be a much more macho and less Le Carre take.