I watched a video on YouTube that talked about the many
cases in which a church calls itself by one name, or even
tries not to call itself by any name, but is called another
name by those outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-OMQk0yHs

He mentioned one group, sometimes called "The Truth"
or "Two-by-Twos", which succeded more than others in not
having a name.

I was curious, as I'd never heard of them. But I managed
to find the Wikipedia article on them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_by_Twos

They were founded by a man named William Irvine.

The article noted that he died in 1957 in Jerusalem, after being
expelled from the church he founded.

I thought that seemed harsh, but then I read more, and found
out _why_ he was expelled.

He founded the church with an "Alpha" doctrine, which was
basically the substance of his denomination's Christian teachings.

The church is not Trinitarian; the Holy Sprit is taken to be a phrase
referring to God's power, and Jesus is taken to be a man.

But it was the "Omega" doctrine, when Irvine came up with it, that
got the group to dissociate from him. As the letter implies... he
decided to proclaim that The End of the World Is at Hand!

So they avoided the trap that the Jehovah's Witnesses and the
Seventh-Day Adventists fell head first into. Good for them. Has
any other new Christian denomination managed such a feat?

John Savard

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:30:30 PM UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> I watched a video on YouTube that talked about the many
> cases in which a church calls itself by one name, or even
> tries not to call itself by any name, but is called another
> name by those outside.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-OMQk0yHs
>
> He mentioned one group, sometimes called "The Truth"
> or "Two-by-Twos", which succeded more than others in not
> having a name.
>
> I was curious, as I'd never heard of them. But I managed
> to find the Wikipedia article on them:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_by_Twos
>
> They were founded by a man named William Irvine.
>
> The article noted that he died in 1957 in Jerusalem, after being
> expelled from the church he founded.
>
> I thought that seemed harsh, but then I read more, and found
> out _why_ he was expelled.
>
> He founded the church with an "Alpha" doctrine, which was
> basically the substance of his denomination's Christian teachings.
>
> The church is not Trinitarian; the Holy Sprit is taken to be a phrase
> referring to God's power, and Jesus is taken to be a man.
>
> But it was the "Omega" doctrine, when Irvine came up with it, that
> got the group to dissociate from him. As the letter implies... he
> decided to proclaim that The End of the World Is at Hand!
>
> So they avoided the trap that the Jehovah's Witnesses and the
> Seventh-Day Adventists fell head first into. Good for them. Has
> any other new Christian denomination managed such a feat?
>
> John Savard
Wikipedia dates it from as far back as 1865, but the Salvation Army is a fully fledged Christian Denomination - albeit rather unusual in many ways. As far as I have seen their doctrines are thought through and sometimes surprisingly sophisticated.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 10:33:20 PM UTC-6, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:

> Wikipedia dates it from as far back as 1865, but the Salvation Army is a fully fledged Christian Denomination

And here I thought that they were - at least originally - a lay Anglican organization. And then they
acquired the ability to conduct nondenominational church services on their own... sort of like how
chaplains in the _Army_ Army can pinch-hit for whatever religion the servicemen to whom they
minister belong to... and so they had many of the *characteristics* of a Christian denomination
without technically being one (their members would still, as individuals, belong to denominations
other than the Salvation Army) - such as having their own places of worship.

However, this is merely a surmise, and I have not looked into the matter in detail. Perhaps they really
are a denomination with doctrines of their own.

John Savard

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 5:55:48 AM UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 10:33:20 PM UTC-6, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
>
> > Wikipedia dates it from as far back as 1865, but the Salvation Army is a fully fledged Christian Denomination
> And here I thought that they were - at least originally - a lay Anglican organization. And then they
> acquired the ability to conduct nondenominational church services on their own... sort of like how
> chaplains in the _Army_ Army can pinch-hit for whatever religion the servicemen to whom they
> minister belong to... and so they had many of the *characteristics* of a Christian denomination
> without technically being one (their members would still, as individuals, belong to denominations
> other than the Salvation Army) - such as having their own places of worship.
>
> However, this is merely a surmise, and I have not looked into the matter in detail. Perhaps they really
> are a denomination with doctrines of their own.
>
> John Savard
Some years ago the church I was attending died of old age. I turned up at the services of a local Salvation Army outfit while looking for replacement churches, and I downloaded and read through some of their material. In their favour, looked on as a charity, they were one of the few charities my Father was keen on - he remembered them providing refreshments or something to soldiers during the second world war. As far as I can tell they had all of the structures and doctrines that you would expect of a fully fledged christian denomination (except that they do not celebrate communion). I found some of their attitudes slightly illiberal, no doubt because of their experience with down and outs.

I spent some time in my youth playing in a concert band run by an ex-Army bandsman who regarded Salvation Army musicianship as a synonym for dumbed down mediocrity - I was therefore surprised and impressed to hear them deliver sophisticated and learned sermons. However I also got the impression that joining them would be a considerable commitment, and that the active members were a tightly knit group where a new member would stand out for a considerable time.

In article <a35b7351-2a3e-4ff2-9f6b-980eae6a199cn@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew McDowell <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>Some years ago the church I was attending died of old age. I turned up
>at the services of a local Salvation Army outfit while looking for
>replacement churches, and I downloaded and read through some of their
>material. In their favour, looked on as a charity, they were one of the
>few charities my Father was keen on - he remembered them providing
>refreshments or something to soldiers during the second world war.

(Hal Heydt)
My father was, at least sympathetic, to the Salvation Army for
much the same reason. He disliked the Red Cross over their WW2
behavior in the UK. This takes a bit of explaining...

Just prior to the US entry into WW2 my father was sailing as the
engineering officer on Esso oil tankers. Seeing that the US was
obviously going to be in the war, he decided that what he was
doing was not going to be a very good way to make a living. So
he applied to the Maritime Service to be an officer candidate and
was accepted.

He left his last tanker on 6 Dec. 1941 (!!) and reported to the
USMS OCS school in Fort Trumbell in New London, CT in January
1942.

The Maritime Service decided their best use of him was to have
him train other ships engineers on the new power systems being
put into ships. The training being done at the Turbo-electric
School just outside Philadelphia, PA.

Needless to say, even in light of withholding information on ship
losses from the public, the Maritme Service people as well as the
lock dock workers all knew what ships didn't come back and how
any survivors were treated. That's where the problem comes in.

The Salvation Army, as a charity, was allowed to provide services
to distress mariners for free. The Red Cross, as a purely
secular organization was required--by the UK--to charge for their
services. Hence looking at the Salvation Army favorably and the
Red Cross not so much.

Side note... After WW2 he was transferred to the Martime Service
Training Center at Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, NY. In March 1954,
he was promoted to Lt. Commander. He left the Service in June
1954. When he died in 1975, he was a civilian employee of the US
Navy (working at North Island Naval Air Station, Corando, CA). His
boss was a Navy Lieutenant...who was unaware that my father had
any sort of military background at all. It was while at his
house talking with my mother that he found out that my father had
out-ranked him 21 years before....

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 15:30:28 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> I watched a video on YouTube that talked about the many cases in which a
> church calls itself by one name, or even tries not to call itself by any
> name, but is called another name by those outside.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-OMQk0yHs
>
> He mentioned one group, sometimes called "The Truth"
> or "Two-by-Twos", which succeded more than others in not having a name.
>
> I was curious, as I'd never heard of them. But I managed to find the
> Wikipedia article on them:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_by_Twos
>
> They were founded by a man named William Irvine.
>
> The article noted that he died in 1957 in Jerusalem, after being
> expelled from the church he founded.
>
> I thought that seemed harsh, but then I read more, and found out _why_
> he was expelled.
>
> He founded the church with an "Alpha" doctrine, which was basically the
> substance of his denomination's Christian teachings.
>
> The church is not Trinitarian; the Holy Sprit is taken to be a phrase
> referring to God's power, and Jesus is taken to be a man.
>
> But it was the "Omega" doctrine, when Irvine came up with it, that got
> the group to dissociate from him. As the letter implies... he decided to
> proclaim that The End of the World Is at Hand!
>
> So they avoided the trap that the Jehovah's Witnesses and the
> Seventh-Day Adventists fell head first into. Good for them. Has any
> other new Christian denomination managed such a feat?
>
> John Savard

The group appears to have had maximum newspaper coverage
in Britain 1906-09. Its outdoor baptism ceremonies drew crowds
of onlookers, both sympathizers and not so. Scuffles grew into
near-riots and police were called in.