Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message

A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>
> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.

I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid having to deal with
the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades later, I noticed
no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.

For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.

Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories were a glimpse
of the "golden age" to come.

William Hyde

In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860-b55e-719e38bea264n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>>
>> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
>
>I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
>Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
>having to deal with
>the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
>later, I noticed
>no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
>
>For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
>let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.
>
>Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
>story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
>were a glimpse
>of the "golden age" to come.
>
>
>William Hyde

I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson Satellite" and
"Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out of Professor
Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.

When I joined the SFBC, one of the first fliers from them that I got was for
their edition of BTGA, and it (the flier) had an awesome illustration of a
breast-plated space amazon with a ray gun. I saved that for years. Eventually
the decided (I suppose) that it wasn't cost effective to put much effort into
the art in the fliers, and they became rather mundane.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <jjk245Fs201U2@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860-b55e-719e38bea264n@googlegroups.com>,
>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>>>
>>> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
>>
>>I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
>>Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
>>having to deal with
>>the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
>>later, I noticed
>>no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
>>
>>For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
>>let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.
>>
>>Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
>>story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
>>were a glimpse
>>of the "golden age" to come.
>>
>>
>>William Hyde
>
>I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson Satellite" and
>"Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out of Professor
>Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.
>
>When I joined the SFBC, one of the first fliers from them that I got was for
>their edition of BTGA, and it (the flier) had an awesome illustration of a
>breast-plated space amazon with a ray gun. I saved that for years. Eventually
>the decided (I suppose) that it wasn't cost effective to put much effort into
>the art in the fliers, and they became rather mundane.
>--
>columbiaclosings.com
>What's not in Columbia anymore..

To follow up my own post with a bit I forgot to put in there: Rocklynne lasted
through and past the Golden Age. As I recall, he had a story in Ellison's
_Dangerous Visions_.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <jjk245Fs201U2@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860-b55e-719e38bea264n@googlegroups.com>,
>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>>>
>>> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
>>
>>I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It
>may be that
>>Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
>>having to deal with
>>the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
>>later, I noticed
>>no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
>>
>>For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
>>let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles
>Tanner himself.
>>
>>Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum,
>indeed, but the
>>story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
>>were a glimpse
>>of the "golden age" to come.
>>
>>
>>William Hyde
>
>I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson
>Satellite" and
>"Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out
>of Professor
>Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.
>
>When I joined the SFBC, one of the first fliers from them that I
>got was for
>their edition of BTGA, and it (the flier) had an awesome
>illustration of a
>breast-plated space amazon with a ray gun. I saved that for
>years. Eventually
>the decided (I suppose) that it wasn't cost effective to put much
>effort into
>the art in the fliers, and they became rather mundane.

At least during my tenure with them, each new set of owners was
increasingly heavily invested in corner-cutting, thus the successive
waves of firings of senior employees shortly after acquisition.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 11:26:18 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <jjk245...@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
> >In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860...@googlegroups.com>,
> >William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> >>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> >>>
> >>> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
> >>
> >>I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
> >>Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
> >>having to deal with
> >>the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
> >>later, I noticed
> >>no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
> >>
> >>For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
> >>let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.
> >>
> >>Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
> >>story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
> >>were a glimpse
> >>of the "golden age" to come.
> >>
> >>
> >>William Hyde
> >
> >I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson Satellite" and
> >"Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out of Professor
> >Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.
> >
> >When I joined the SFBC, one of the first fliers from them that I got was for
> >their edition of BTGA, and it (the flier) had an awesome illustration of a
> >breast-plated space amazon with a ray gun. I saved that for years. Eventually
> >the decided (I suppose) that it wasn't cost effective to put much effort into
> >the art in the fliers, and they became rather mundane.
> >--
> >columbiaclosings.com
> >What's not in Columbia anymore..
> To follow up my own post with a bit I forgot to put in there: Rocklynne lasted
> through and past the Golden Age. As I recall, he had a story in Ellison's
> _Dangerous Visions_.

Yes, "Ching Witch" in ADV.

Illness prevented him from writing for a decade or more but he
emerged from it in the 1960s to write for a few more years.

William Hyde

Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> >>
> >> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
> >
> >I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
> >Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
> >having to deal with
> >the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
> >later, I noticed
> >no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
> >
> >For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
> >let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.
> >
> >Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
> >story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
> >were a glimpse
> >of the "golden age" to come.
> >
> I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson Satellite" and
> "Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out of Professor
> Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.

"The Jameson Satellite" and "Born of the Sun" are the ones I remember best. "Sidewise in Time" I had already read elsewhere. This would have been the first place I read "Parasite Planet," "Old Faithful," and maybe "Proxima Centari".

ISTR Asimov asked an SF friend for help in tracking down and clearing the rights to these stories, trampling on that friend's dreams of collecting such an anthology. Who was that, and was he later able to do one? I don't think it was Damon Knight, who got one out later in the '70s:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?221589
No overlap between the two. Well, they had a whole decade and only a total of some 1,500 pages to fill.

--
-Jack

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 4:01:24 PM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <e29b1bb0-84b0-4860...@googlegroups.com>,
> > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:53:21 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > >> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> > >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> > >>
> > >> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
> > >
> > >I don't know if Asimov knew that Charles Tanner was black. It may be that
> > >Tanner set many of his stories in the very distant future to avoid
> > >having to deal with
> > >the racism we see elsewhere in this collection. Rereading this decades
> > >later, I noticed
> > >no reference to skin colour in any of his stories.
> > >
> > >For his more contemporary fiction he seems to have been happy to
> > >let the readers assume the characters were as white as Charles Tanner himself.
> > >
> > >Rocklynne didn't know about conservation of angular momentum, indeed, but the
> > >story was still gripping. I thought that several of the last stories
> > >were a glimpse
> > >of the "golden age" to come.
> > >
> > I remember some of these. The Tumithak stories, "The Jameson Satellite" and
> > "Sidewise In Time" in particular. Jones got a whole series out of Professor
> > Jameson. He never spent any time mourning his fate as I recall.
> "The Jameson Satellite" and "Born of the Sun" are the ones I remember best. "Sidewise in Time" I had already read elsewhere. This would have been the first place I read "Parasite Planet," "Old Faithful," and maybe "Proxima Centari".
>
> ISTR Asimov asked an SF friend for help in tracking down and clearing the rights to these stories, trampling on that friend's dreams of collecting such an anthology. Who was that, and was he later able to do one?

That was Sam Moskowitz, who couldn't get a publisher interested in the idea.. He had already edited "science fiction by gaslight" and perhaps that didn't do all that well. He went on to create several more anthologies, though. Perhaps the success of BTGA convinced the publishers that he had after all had a good idea.

William Hyde

On 17/07/2022 07.53, James Nicoll wrote:
> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>
> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.

I think that you need to fix the years shown for the works
by Meek. s/1974/1931/, per the ISFDB, as well as implied
by their placement in the book.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 6:53:21 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
>
> A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.

I don't remember the book well enough to know if many of the
stories in it were "dreadful" or not, however, even if Asimov made
the best possible effort to obtain the best stories from that era,
likely they would still seem hopelessly dated to readers of the
1960s, let alone the readers of 1974 and onwards who would have
actually had the opportunity to read this book.

But I still must take issue to your claim that 1979 is today part
of the ancient past (even as you also allege that 1931 was in
1974). I mean, really. I could be pedantic, and note
that 1979 still irrevocably postdates the fall of Rome. But,
rather, what I think makes that claim strange is that 1979 is still
very much within living memory. World War II is starting to edge
into "ancient" territory these days, as those who served in that
conflict - and even those who only remember it as children - are
becoming increasingly elderly.

Let's see now... someone who signed up in 1944, at the age
of 16, by lying about his age... would be 94 this year. Oh, dear;
we really are fast approaching the day when the last living
World War II veteran will pass away.

John Savard

On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 11:07:43 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 6:53:21 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> >
> > A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.

> I don't remember the book well enough to know if many of the
> stories in it were "dreadful" or not, however, even if Asimov made
> the best possible effort to obtain the best stories from that era,
> likely they would still seem hopelessly dated to readers of the
> 1960s, let alone the readers of 1974 and onwards who would have
> actually had the opportunity to read this book.

Reading the list of the stories in that book, and your descriptions
of them, it seems to me that Isaac Asimov indeed did an excellent
job in picking out the best of the stories available from that era.

Whether or not those stories will, for the most part, be enjoyable
to read is, of course, another question - even if he did the best
anyone could have done, indeed that era is sufficiently remote
that the results will still be of limited general interest.

John Savard

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:07:43 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

>
> Let's see now... someone who signed up in 1944, at the age
> of 16, by lying about his age... would be 94 this year. Oh, dear;
> we really are fast approaching the day when the last living
> World War II veteran will pass away.

Probably a German man, who conscripted into the Hitler Youth
at 12 in 1945, and fought the Allies that same year. He'd be 89
now.

There was one Russian orphan who was adopted by a Soviet army
unit during the war at age 6, who then rose through the ranks, but
he passed some time ago.

pt

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:07:43 AM UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 6:53:21 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> >
> > A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
> I don't remember the book well enough to know if many of the
> stories in it were "dreadful" or not, however, even if Asimov made
> the best possible effort to obtain the best stories from that era,
> likely they would still seem hopelessly dated to readers of the
> 1960s, let alone the readers of 1974 and onwards who would have
> actually had the opportunity to read this book.
>
> But I still must take issue to your claim that 1979 is today part
> of the ancient past (even as you also allege that 1931 was in
> 1974). I mean, really. I could be pedantic, and note
> that 1979 still irrevocably postdates the fall of Rome. But,
> rather, what I think makes that claim strange is that 1979 is still
> very much within living memory. World War II is starting to edge
> into "ancient" territory these days, as those who served in that
> conflict - and even those who only remember it as children - are
> becoming increasingly elderly.
>
> Let's see now... someone who signed up in 1944, at the age
> of 16, by lying about his age... would be 94 this year. Oh, dear;
> we really are fast approaching the day when the last living
> World War II veteran will pass away.
>
> John Savard
1976 is being referenced a bit in the UK at the moment, because that is remembered as an unusually hot summer.

Of course some years and issues are retained in various cultures. Some communities in N.Ireland celebrate 1690. Others retain bad memories of Cromwell's expedition there, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Drogheda 1649. I came away from reading an introductory book on the Greek Orthodox Church with the impression that much of their doctrine was unchanged since Chrysostom (407) but this may be an exaggeration.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:34:29 PM UTC-4, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:07:43 AM UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 6:53:21 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > Before the Golden Age edited by Isaac Asimov
> > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/youll-get-the-message
> > >
> > > A massive anthology of often dreadful SF from the 1930s.
> > I don't remember the book well enough to know if many of the
> > stories in it were "dreadful" or not, however, even if Asimov made
> > the best possible effort to obtain the best stories from that era,
> > likely they would still seem hopelessly dated to readers of the
> > 1960s, let alone the readers of 1974 and onwards who would have
> > actually had the opportunity to read this book.
> >
> > But I still must take issue to your claim that 1979 is today part
> > of the ancient past (even as you also allege that 1931 was in
> > 1974). I mean, really. I could be pedantic, and note
> > that 1979 still irrevocably postdates the fall of Rome. But,
> > rather, what I think makes that claim strange is that 1979 is still
> > very much within living memory. World War II is starting to edge
> > into "ancient" territory these days, as those who served in that
> > conflict - and even those who only remember it as children - are
> > becoming increasingly elderly.
> >
> > Let's see now... someone who signed up in 1944, at the age
> > of 16, by lying about his age... would be 94 this year. Oh, dear;
> > we really are fast approaching the day when the last living
> > World War II veteran will pass away.
> >
> > John Savard
> 1976 is being referenced a bit in the UK at the moment, because that is remembered as an unusually hot summer.

I was in the UK for eight weeks that year. I went there in part to escape the heat of a Toronto summer as 75 had been
most unpleasant. Of course, in 76 Toronto had a notably cool summer.

South of Scotland I saw rain only once, a few drops which were not even enough to thoroughly wet the pavement. The only really hot days though, were a couple I spent in Cambridge. I passed the afternoons in the cool interior of the Church of St Edward, King and Martyr, reading R. R. James' "Churchill: a study in failure".

The Cornish Riviera really was like the Riviera that summer. London ran out of lager.

The wines of 76 were spectacular, but alas now just a memory.

William Hyde