In article <qAHSK.90416$elEa.3488@fx09.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <XnsAF0C9152CF814taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
>>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of hand,
>>>and did very minimal damage to anybody.
>>
>>(Hal Heydt)
>>Dead is "minimal damage"?
>
>Don't respond to Terry's trolling, please.

(Hal Heydt)
I have mixed feelings about that as a general policy. On the one
hand, feeding a troll doesn't work terribly well (and if it did,
they wouldn't actually be a troll). On the other hand, allowing
obvious falsehoods to stand unchallenged allows those just
standing by observing to, potentially, conclude that the troll
must be correct because no one is objecting.

My more recent exchanges with such types of individuals are ones
that are even more fixed in their ideas with much poorer grasp
of the English language. They are in the form of ID/creationist
virulent evolution deniers. (Including one who consistently
claims that the marsupial Tasmanian "wolf" and the placental
wolves found in the rest of the world are basically the same
animal. Convergent evolution being one of the things that
individual neither understands nor accepts.)

On Friday, 9 September 2022 at 17:16:21 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <qAHSK.90416$elEa...@fx09.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >>In article <XnsAF0C9152CF8...@85.12.62.232>,
> >>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of hand,
> >>>and did very minimal damage to anybody.
> >>
> >>(Hal Heydt)
> >>Dead is "minimal damage"?
> >
> >Don't respond to Terry's trolling, please.
> (Hal Heydt)
> I have mixed feelings about that as a general policy. On the one
> hand, feeding a troll doesn't work terribly well (and if it did,
> they wouldn't actually be a troll). On the other hand, allowing
> obvious falsehoods to stand unchallenged allows those just
> standing by observing to, potentially, conclude that the troll
> must be correct because no one is objecting.
>
> My more recent exchanges with such types of individuals are ones
> that are even more fixed in their ideas with much poorer grasp
> of the English language. They are in the form of ID/creationist
> virulent evolution deniers. (Including one who consistently
> claims that the marsupial Tasmanian "wolf" and the placental
> wolves found in the rest of the world are basically the same
> animal. Convergent evolution being one of the things that
> individual neither understands nor accepts.)

I lean towards letting obvious falsehoods be obvious falsehoods.
Also, the creationist in the street doesn't deal in actual facts -
and their leaders mishandle them - so tossing real information
at them doesn't have much effect. I say let them wear out their
fingers typing before you do. And let yourself forget that people
like that exist. It's much more pleasant.

On Friday, 9 September 2022 at 17:03:27 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 18:57:21 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:55:32 PM UTC-6, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> >> Don't remember how we got there but at one point he calls
> >> out to his mother, "do we know anybody for sure going to hell?". The
> >> instant reply was "Martin Luther".
> >
> >As he was the author of "The Jews and Their Lies", it's hard for me to disagree.
> Yes, he was. The traditional excuse is that he was old and cranky. But
> he was also a man of his times.
> >Also, he accused Copernicus of trying to "overturn the whole science
> >of astronomy".
> I don't doubt it, but I do not recall ever hearing it before.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus>
mentions a brief, doubtfully quoted remark over dinner
from Luther, but a call for government suppression from
"Luther's collaborator Philipp Melanchthon".

You get this when people are awfully religious -
Luther is said to argue that since the bible says
Joshua commanded and got God to make the sun
(and the moon) to stop moving, and not the earth,
evidently it was not the earth that was moving anyway.
All of which is not good evidence against, well,
everything else - unless you're religious.

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 2:23:56 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:

> Oh, well before then. But the attitude lingered, and apparently still does. There are a few
> fundamentalist churches around here where the pope is not loved (where you can also
> learn that evolution is a lie and global warming an Atheist/Chinese conspiracy). Though one is
> a mosque.

Aside from the fellow in Turkey who successfully sued scientists who pointed
out errors in his lavish books supporting Creationism, I can note that there is
additional diversity in this area. The Hare Krishna movement, despite the long
time scales of the Hindu faith, also published works purporting to refute
evolution.

However, I find such beliefs understandable, and entirely within the limits of
religious freedom.

Creationists have sought to pervert the public school system by having it
"teach the controversy", or otherwise present Creationism or at least "Intelligent
Design" as an equally-valid explanation of origins. This would be teaching lies
to children, and is not acceptable.

But, as I've noted before, one of their concerns is valid. The First Amendment
and the fundamental universal democratic right it describes prohibits schools
from indoctrinating children in any opinion concerning religious matters. Since
the literal truth of the entire Bible is an article of faith of one or more religious
denominations, it is a religious matter.

How does one accomodate Creationists without either omitting evolutionary
biology from the curriculum, or teaching the lie that Creationism is equally
valid?

There is a way, but it isn't being discussed because those who are aware that
evolution by natural selection _is_ the truth don't recognize that a religious
liberty issue can still exist despite that fact.

Newspapers reporting crimes will often refer to someone who has been caught
red-handed as having been accused of a crime, or being suspected of a
crime, or having allegedly commited the crime... when it is known better. This
is to avoid prejudicing their right to a fair trial and so on.

We can word our biology texts and our exam questions the same way. Teach
students about, and examine them on, what a certain group of scientists claim,
without explicitly stating that the reason what no other group of scientists may
claim on this subject is also found in their textbooks is because this particular
group of scientists happens to be right about what actually happened.

Everything you teach the students is true. The facts of evolution are presented.
But those students who subscribe to literalist Biblical belief are not required to
abjure the least tenet of their faith in order to provide the right answers on exams.

I like to think that it will also help to prepare the _other_ children for adult life by
giving them a gentle introduction to the hypocrisy of the adult world.

John Savard

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 6:57:32 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:

> There was a quote from around that time, with someone mocking the
> idea that the whole Earth was swinging around but asking if these
> people rode in a carriage and thought the scenery was flowing past
> their window. I was just like, "But, but, but..."

Obviously, Isaac Newton was only able to come up with his formulation of
the principle of relativity - to later be carried to greater heights by the
justly famed Albert Einstein - because of engineering advances in the suspensions
of horse-drawn carriages, that finally permitted people to imagine the notion
that a ride could be so smooth that one could actually be in doubt about whether
or not one was moving.

John Savard

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:d72959ac-c7fa-47cc...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 12:13:18 PM UTC-4, Paul S
> > Person wrote:
> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 12:51:35 PM UTC-4, Paul S
> >> >Person wrote:
> >
> >> >> On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> >> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:59:22 PM UTC-4, David
> >> >> >Johnston wro
> > te:
> >> >> >> On 2022-08-02 1:45 a.m., Charles Packer wrote:
> >> >> >> > On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 09:19:48 -0700, Paul S Person
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Actually, recent efforts to criminalize even the
> >> >> >> >> mention of abor
> > tion on
> >> >> >> >> the Internet by at least one Republican-controlled
> >> >> >> >> State suggest
> > s that
> >> >> >> >> their Ministry of Truth is, at least for now, up and
> >> >> >> >> running.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The noise generated by politicians firing potshots at
> >> >> >> > free speech masks a more insidious undermining of it in
> >> >> >> > which our so-called free press itself is complicit: the
> >> >> >> > acceptance of
> >
> >> >> >> > social media as arbiters of public speech.
> >> >> >> Let me ask you something. In the days before the internet
> >> >> >> what was
> > the
> >> >> >> means by which someone could get a large audience for
> >> >> >> their attempt
> > s to
> >> >> >> convince people that the Earth was flat or FDR planned
> >> >> >> Pearl Harbor
> > ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Just a few weeks ago, every house on my street received a
> >> >> >"nicely bou
> > nd" if not exactly nicely printed, book that on the surface
> > seemed to be one written for Americans, about American politics
> > (had a nice if cliched picture of the Capitol reflected in water
> > on the cover). It was, in reality, an anti-Catholic tract and I
> > was struck with a sense of nostalgia that these bigots had
> > apparently never heard of the internet.
> >> >> Any indication when it was written? This was a lot more
> >> >> common way back when and this could be a reprint of
> >> >> something written 100 years
> >
> >> >> ago.
> >> >
> >> >From the little I read it seems clear it was written, or
> >> >perhaps just up
> > dated post 1981, as president Reagan was mentioned.
> >> >
> >> >On the other hand its tone did make it sound like something
> >> >from the pre
> > -WWII era.
> >> There is a long tradition of Pope-bashing in Protestant
> >> circles, with certain well-known tropes.
> >
> > To be fair, in history many of them deserved worse.
> To be fair, the same is true of many Protestants. And many
> atheists, and many of every other walk of life that includes
> billions of people.

Yep.

And billions deserve/have deserved better too.

William Hyde

On 9/9/2022 9:12 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:22:29 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/09/22 16:25, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-08 20:32, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>
>> As you haven't yet figured it out for yourself, I have chosen myself to
>> inform you that Jibini does not reply to your simplistic one or two line
>> negations of his outrageous statements and will not do so no matter how
>> appropriate and righteous your protestations are.
>>
>> What will you do if he finds out that Zuckerburg has publicly stated
>> that Arsebook censored all the details from Hunter Biden's damaged
>> laptop from discussion after advice from the FBI to beware of Russian
>> disinformation PRIOR to the election? Would that have meant a Trump
>> victory if disclosed?
>> Even worse, he may read extracts from Ashley Biden's diary, (misplaced
>> in a drug rehabilitation centre), which detail her teenage nymphomania
>> whilst showering with her father.
>> (The NYT reported on the successful prosecution of those who sold it.)
>> As an apparent supporter of the US Democrat party, you could be in for a
>> good kicking if he finds that stuff out and you persist in empty abuse.
>
> Sounds like something Trump said.
>
> Are you being paid to push his nonsense?
>
> And when, exactly, would you have the FBI warn social media/news
> companies of the danger of Russian bots spreading Trump Talking
> Points? After the election, when the damage (if any) has already been
> done?
>
> Complaining about that warning is like complaining that someone was
> told to close the barn door /before/ the horses got out.

Well, when the complainer is hoping to steal the horse it is easier if
it is already outside the barn.... :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Friday, 9 September 2022 at 19:06:27 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 6:57:32 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > There was a quote from around that time, with someone mocking the
> > idea that the whole Earth was swinging around but asking if these
> > people rode in a carriage and thought the scenery was flowing past
> > their window. I was just like, "But, but, but..."
> Obviously, Isaac Newton was only able to come up with his formulation of
> the principle of relativity - to later be carried to greater heights by the
> justly famed Albert Einstein - because of engineering advances in the suspensions
> of horse-drawn carriages, that finally permitted people to imagine the notion
> that a ride could be so smooth that one could actually be in doubt about whether
> or not one was moving.

Or, the larger rivers, and canals.

On 10/09/22 04:12, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:22:29 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/09/22 16:25, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-08 20:32, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>
>> As you haven't yet figured it out for yourself, I have chosen myself to
>> inform you that Jibini does not reply to your simplistic one or two line
>> negations of his outrageous statements and will not do so no matter how
>> appropriate and righteous your protestations are.
>>
>> What will you do if he finds out that Zuckerburg has publicly stated
>> that Arsebook censored all the details from Hunter Biden's damaged
>> laptop from discussion after advice from the FBI to beware of Russian
>> disinformation PRIOR to the election? Would that have meant a Trump
>> victory if disclosed?
>> Even worse, he may read extracts from Ashley Biden's diary, (misplaced
>> in a drug rehabilitation centre), which detail her teenage nymphomania
>> whilst showering with her father.
>> (The NYT reported on the successful prosecution of those who sold it.)
>> As an apparent supporter of the US Democrat party, you could be in for a
>> good kicking if he finds that stuff out and you persist in empty abuse.

snip

> And when, exactly,

Your reply indicates that you have misunderstood the emphasis on PRIOR
to the election.
Incriminating details from Hunter Biden's laptop were released to the
media before the US election but not published till after with the
pretence that they had just become available. Zuckerberg has recently
disclosed the REASON for the delay conjuring speculation regarding
presidential election outcome.

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:tfeiiq$vear$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/09/22 16:25, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-09-08 20:32, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>
> As you haven't yet figured it out for yourself, I have chosen
> myself to inform you that Jibini does not reply to your
> simplistic one or two line
> negations of his outrageous statements and will not do so no
> matter how
> appropriate and righteous your protestations are.

I don't even read them.

But he *can't* help himself. He literally *can't* resist. The hook is
set *way* too deep. And he sets it deeper every day, all by himself.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:kapmhhp4tdqkt0iue96nrsmg6beopolpsc@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 17:22:29 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 9/09/22 16:25, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-08 20:32, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>
>>As you haven't yet figured it out for yourself, I have chosen
>>myself to inform you that Jibini does not reply to your
>>simplistic one or two line
>> negations of his outrageous statements and will not do so no
>> matter how
>>appropriate and righteous your protestations are.
>>
>>What will you do if he finds out that Zuckerburg has publicly
>>stated that Arsebook censored all the details from Hunter
>>Biden's damaged laptop from discussion after advice from the FBI
>>to beware of Russian disinformation PRIOR to the election? Would
>>that have meant a Trump victory if disclosed?
>>Even worse, he may read extracts from Ashley Biden's diary,
>>(misplaced in a drug rehabilitation centre), which detail her
>>teenage nymphomania whilst showering with her father.
>>(The NYT reported on the successful prosecution of those who
>>sold it.) As an apparent supporter of the US Democrat party, you
>>could be in for a good kicking if he finds that stuff out and
>>you persist in empty abuse.
>
> Sounds like something Trump said.
>
> Are you being paid to push his nonsense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_derangement_syndrome

Take your meds. Seriously. You *need* them.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:tfekv7$vklm$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/09/22 15:32, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
>> news:tfeb3q$usuu$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 9/09/22 09:19, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> People like Jack Chick were reluctant to even admit Catholics
>>>> were *human*.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Has science conclusively overturned that viewpoint?
>>
>> Has science conclusively proven you're human?
>
> I wish to adhere the group's unanimous demand for respectful and
> polite replies

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

> but in this instance I throw caution to the whims
> and accuse you of personalising a generalisation which, even
> with irrefutable evidence you may possess, suggests a violation
> of my privacy which could possibly cause the ethical in this
> group to view you with disfavour. You have been warned.

He said is his more robot-like way.
>
>>>
>>> Seriously, I had never heard of such a person before a quick
>>> web search which showed diverse opinions on his sanity or
>>> saintliness. I might pursue some of those later for
>>> entertainment.
>>>
>> If you've ever been an RPGer, the tract on D&D is hilarious.
>>
>> (I met a reporter doing a story on roleplaying games at the
>> height of the "Satanic Panic" era. She made Jack Chick sounds
>> nearly sane. She wouldn't even talk to me because I wouldn't
>> give her any bullshit.)
>>
>
> I watched a little on youtube and found it more disturbing than
> entertaining.
>
You say that like they're mutually exclusive.

Jack Chick was every as batshit crazy as some of the lefty loons
here. Just with a different color food coloring in the Kool-Aid (or
Kook-Aid, as the case may be).

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:qAHSK.90416
$elEa.3488@fx09.iad:

> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <XnsAF0C9152CF814taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
>>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of hand,
>>>and did very minimal damage to anybody.
>>
>>(Hal Heydt)
>>Dead is "minimal damage"?
>
> Don't respond to Terry's trolling, please.
>
Especially on subjects where the facts make lefties look like the
insane, violent insurgents so many of them are.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:rHy9y5.1tIv@kithrup.com:

> In article <qAHSK.90416$elEa.3488@fx09.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>In article <XnsAF0C9152CF814taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
>>>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of hand,
>>>>and did very minimal damage to anybody.
>>>
>>>(Hal Heydt)
>>>Dead is "minimal damage"?
>>
>>Don't respond to Terry's trolling, please.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> I have mixed feelings about that as a general policy. On the one
> hand, feeding a troll doesn't work terribly well (and if it did,
> they wouldn't actually be a troll). On the other hand, allowing
> obvious falsehoods to stand unchallenged allows those just
> standing by observing to, potentially, conclude that the troll
> must be correct because no one is objecting.
>
You really should get your news from more sources than C(ommunist)N
(ews)N(etwork).

The violence, including numerous murders, of the Antifa/BLM
insurgency are well documented.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:3ce4d294-31fb-4cd1-902b-759e24448d75n@googlegroups.com:

> How does one accomodate Creationists without either omitting
> evolutionary biology from the curriculum, or teaching the lie
> that Creationism is equally valid?
>
> There is a way,

But not the one in your insane ramblings.

Science has an objective definition, and neither creationism nor
intelligent design fit within it. Period.

So you don't cover it in *science* class. To include it in a
science class is an admission that one has no clue what science
*is*.

The proper place for it is in a comparative religion class, which
isn't normally taught below the college level because doing so in a
public school would, indeed, require presenting, at the least, all
the major religious belief systems. Which is, of course, tantamount
to sacrificing one's own children to Satan (because one has done
such a poor job of parenting that the little dears can't possibly
do anyting other than choose eternal damnation on their own, so
they can't be allowed to know of the existence of any other
religious systems).

That is why religious whack-jobs push for it to be presented in
science classes.

One cannot "teach the controversy" if there is no controversy, and
there _is_ _no_ _controversy_, because creationism and intelligent
design are *not* science, and don't even pretend to be.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4222814b-a246-4be1-9966-92e9c84617bfn@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:d72959ac-c7fa-47cc...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 12:13:18 PM UTC-4, Paul S
>> > Person wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
>> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 12:51:35 PM UTC-4, Paul S
>> >> >Person wrote:
>> >
>> >> >> On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
>> >> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:59:22 PM UTC-4, David
>> >> >> >Johnston wro
>> > te:
>> >> >> >> On 2022-08-02 1:45 a.m., Charles Packer wrote:
>> >> >> >> > On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 09:19:48 -0700, Paul S Person
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Actually, recent efforts to criminalize even the
>> >> >> >> >> mention of abor
>> > tion on
>> >> >> >> >> the Internet by at least one Republican-controlled
>> >> >> >> >> State suggest
>> > s that
>> >> >> >> >> their Ministry of Truth is, at least for now, up
>> >> >> >> >> and running.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > The noise generated by politicians firing potshots
>> >> >> >> > at free speech masks a more insidious undermining of
>> >> >> >> > it in which our so-called free press itself is
>> >> >> >> > complicit: the acceptance of
>> >
>> >> >> >> > social media as arbiters of public speech.
>> >> >> >> Let me ask you something. In the days before the
>> >> >> >> internet what was
>> > the
>> >> >> >> means by which someone could get a large audience for
>> >> >> >> their attempt
>> > s to
>> >> >> >> convince people that the Earth was flat or FDR planned
>> >> >> >> Pearl Harbor
>> > ?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Just a few weeks ago, every house on my street received
>> >> >> >a "nicely bou
>> > nd" if not exactly nicely printed, book that on the surface
>> > seemed to be one written for Americans, about American
>> > politics (had a nice if cliched picture of the Capitol
>> > reflected in water on the cover). It was, in reality, an
>> > anti-Catholic tract and I was struck with a sense of
>> > nostalgia that these bigots had apparently never heard of the
>> > internet.
>> >> >> Any indication when it was written? This was a lot more
>> >> >> common way back when and this could be a reprint of
>> >> >> something written 100 years
>> >
>> >> >> ago.
>> >> >
>> >> >From the little I read it seems clear it was written, or
>> >> >perhaps just up
>> > dated post 1981, as president Reagan was mentioned.
>> >> >
>> >> >On the other hand its tone did make it sound like something
>> >> >from the pre
>> > -WWII era.
>> >> There is a long tradition of Pope-bashing in Protestant
>> >> circles, with certain well-known tropes.
>> >
>> > To be fair, in history many of them deserved worse.
>> To be fair, the same is true of many Protestants. And many
>> atheists, and many of every other walk of life that includes
>> billions of people.
>
> Yep.
>
> And billions deserve/have deserved better too.
>
As is true of Protestants and Catholics, whichever you're hating
on.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 12:54:31 AM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
> On 8/09/22 11:36, William Hyde wrote:
> snip
> >
> > I never could understand sung lyrics.
> >
> Nor me. So I research them if I have a reason. I loved Neil Young's Down
> By The River but was a little disturbed by the lyrics until I read
> online that shooting his baby was injecting drugs.

I did not know that - many thanks.

> I am sure you would
> appreciate Tales of Brave Ulysses a short track by 60's super group
> Cream. The "There and back again", or staring into the abyss" themes
> are summarised
>
> Slightly on topic:
> Once upon a time I was mesmerised by _Where Is My Mind_ by The Pixies

Indeed - a most excellent song.

> and some time ago discovered the ensuing albums from their 'Frank
> Black'.

Less consistent that the Pixies albums, but the highs are really high.

> I have become obsessed with about twenty of his 'Indie Rock'
> creations, a few of which deal with his interest in Mars, (eg The
> Marsist).

Science fiction is one of his somewhat common themes.

> Because my interest has been in the music, it has taken months
> for the lyrics to penetrate my ear wax.

For better or worse, the way my mind is geared, it's hard for
me to actually notice the lyrics, and even harder for them to
have any meaning to me. Doesn't make me enjoy music any
less. I think my brain hears vocals as just another instrument.
<shrug> It's just the way it is.

> This Gulliver "Foyle" is stranded halfway to Mars.
>
> Big Red. Frank Black.
>
> <lyrics deleted>

A truly fine song, but the one that I go back to over
and over again on that album is "Two Reelers".

I've been fortunate to see the Pixies live several times,
but I feel especially fortunate that I saw Frank Black
live in a small venue in 2001 in support of the album
Dog in the Sand.

Thanks for pulling up some neat memories.
Tony

In article <XnsAF0DB43D8BA49taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>,
Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>That is why religious whack-jobs push for it to be presented in
>science classes.
>
>One cannot "teach the controversy" if there is no controversy, and
>there _is_ _no_ _controversy_, because creationism and intelligent
>design are *not* science, and don't even pretend to be.

(Hal Heydt)
Correct on both points.

In article <XnsAF0DB1F25581Ataustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>,
Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>You really should get your news from more sources than C(ommunist)N
>(ews)N(etwork).

(Hal Heydt)
I don't get *any* of my news from CNN. On the other hand, I
don't get any of it from Faux News, either.

On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 21:24:44 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-09-08 20:30, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in news:rHx6vt.u05
>> @kithrup.com:
>>
>>> In article <XnsAF0C9152CF814taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of hand,
>>>> and did very minimal damage to anybody.
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Dead is "minimal damage"?
>>>
>> Tha Antifa/BLM riots killed a lost more peole. On purpose.
>
>Another lie.

What would YOU call them then? I sure as HELL wouldn't describe them
as "mostly peaceful" - and if the claim is that the violent ones
weren't associated with the "real" protest then one would want to see
soem evidence that the violent ones were actually told to leave the
demonstration and stay far far away.

Because THAT's the criteria that was used this spring against the
Canadian Trucker's demonstration when weirdos carrying Nazi and
Confederate flags and the Prime Minister then tried to tar the entire
crowd as "pro-Nazi racists and bigots". (Actually that rally annoying
as it was for Ottawans did a better job than most rallies in weeding
out the far out lunatic fringe that attached themselves to the crowds)

But no question if "progressives" attach epithets to hangers on of
dubious stripe to their opponents' demonstrations they had BETTER be
prepared to be equally castigated when far out goofballs do the same
thing at their rallies and that very much HAS happened on several
occasions.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 16:46:18 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>>These would, I suspect, mostly have the mainstream denominations;
>>anti-RC rhetoric probably continued on in the others for a while. And,
>>clearly, some groups are keeping the flame alive.
>
>I know of a Lutheran, who married a RC in 1956 - his parents wouldn't go
>to the wedding.

On the other hand I know a Roman Catholic (fairly nominal) who married
a Protestant in 1984 - and while she was told they could be married in
the sacristy they would not be allowed anywhere near the high altar.
So they had a non-Catholic wedding despite the groom's willingness to
do so. The groom was also willing to go through Catholic pre-wedding
courses.

Her sister 15 years later married an atheist (I emphasize NOT an
agnostic) and they WERE married at the high altar. Not only that but
the bride was pregnant at the time of their wedding. (I've no idea
whether the priest knew though given when her daughter was born she
had to be showing a little bit)

Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because these are
close family to me and clearly the message is that if you are a
Catholic (however nominal) it is better to marry an atheist than a
Protestant since the former MIGHT convert while the latter is far less
likely to.

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:rHz1IJ.qJF@kithrup.com:

> In article <XnsAF0DB1F25581Ataustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>,
> Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>You really should get your news from more sources than C(ommunist)N
>>(ews)N(etwork).
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> I don't get *any* of my news from CNN. On the other hand, I
> don't get any of it from Faux News, either.
>
I don't know where you get it, but if they told you no one was
murdered and the damage wasn't *extensive* during the 2016 riots,
they lied. Not misunderstood, not played down, not mistaken, they
*lied*.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:d9vnhhhndv2mourtt73svsj45463mafvl1@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 21:24:44 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-09-08 20:30, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in news:rHx6vt.u05
>>> @kithrup.com:
>>>
>>>> In article <XnsAF0C9152CF814taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Jan 6 was some hillbillies who had a party that got out of
>>>>> hand, and did very minimal damage to anybody.
>>>>
>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>> Dead is "minimal damage"?
>>>>
>>> Tha Antifa/BLM riots killed a lost more peole. On purpose.
>>
>>Another lie.
>
> What would YOU call them then?

Whatever he's told to, by the voices in his head.

The dude's *not* right in the head. You know that. Don't feed his
illness.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-09-09 21:02, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
> news:rHz1IJ.qJF@kithrup.com:
>
>> In article <XnsAF0DB1F25581Ataustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>,
>> Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You really should get your news from more sources than C(ommunist)N
>>> (ews)N(etwork).
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> I don't get *any* of my news from CNN. On the other hand, I
>> don't get any of it from Faux News, either.
>>
> I don't know where you get it, but if they told you no one was
> murdered and the damage wasn't *extensive* during the 2016 riots,
> they lied. Not misunderstood, not played down, not mistaken, they
> *lied*.
>

Like you lie about the insurrection incited by your fearless leader?

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:1ovnhh50e5e3d0t5pagf5o34mgia3rkkme@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 16:46:18 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott
> Lurndal) wrote:
>
>>>These would, I suspect, mostly have the mainstream
>>>denominations; anti-RC rhetoric probably continued on in the
>>>others for a while. And, clearly, some groups are keeping the
>>>flame alive.
>>
>>I know of a Lutheran, who married a RC in 1956 - his parents
>>wouldn't go to the wedding.
>
> On the other hand I know a Roman Catholic (fairly nominal) who
> married a Protestant in 1984 - and while she was told they could
> be married in the sacristy they would not be allowed anywhere
> near the high altar. So they had a non-Catholic wedding despite
> the groom's willingness to do so. The groom was also willing to
> go through Catholic pre-wedding courses.
>
> Her sister 15 years later married an atheist (I emphasize NOT an
> agnostic) and they WERE married at the high altar. Not only that
> but the bride was pregnant at the time of their wedding. (I've
> no idea whether the priest knew though given when her daughter
> was born she had to be showing a little bit)
>
> Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because these
> are close family to me and clearly the message is that if you
> are a Catholic (however nominal) it is better to marry an
> atheist than a Protestant since the former MIGHT convert while
> the latter is far less likely to.
>
Or perhaps attitudes changed in . . . 15 years.

But don't let that get in the way of your hate-on.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.