Due to the fact that Sméagol and Déagol lived on the banks of the
Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.

Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?

--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.

In article <tg9qut$13gsv$1@dont-email.me>,
"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

> Due to the fact that Sméagol and Déagol lived on the banks of the
> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.
>
> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?

I believe that the Tooks were Fallohide or at least had significant
Fallohide ancestry. Perhaps the Baggins also had Fallohide ancestors.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On 2022-09-19 7:31 a.m., Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> Due to the fact that Sméagol and Déagol lived on the banks of the
> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.
>
> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?
>

When the hobbits settled together in the Shire they stopped being three
distinct races. Bilbo and Frodo were part harfoot, but Fallohide on
their Took side.

In alt.fan.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
> Due to the fact that Sm?agol and D?agol lived on the banks of the
> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.

Or proto-Stoors..."akin to the fathers of the fathers of the
Stoors",as Gandalf put it.
> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?
>

My impression is that Tolkien represented the division into
Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide as something from centuries before the
War of the Ring that had been progressively disappearing through
intermixture since before the Shire was settled.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On 26/09/2022 23.08, Louis Epstein wrote:
> In alt.fan.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Due to the fact that Sm?agol and D?agol lived on the banks of the
>> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.
>
> Or proto-Stoors..."akin to the fathers of the fathers of the
> Stoors",as Gandalf put it.
>
>> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
>> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
>> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
>> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?
>
> My impression is that Tolkien represented the division into
> Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide as something from centuries before the
> War of the Ring that had been progressively disappearing through
> intermixture since before the Shire was settled.

This initially sounded good, but now I'm doubtful. Déagol found
the Ring in SR 863, right? Shire Reckoning dates from the settling
of the Shire, so the division into Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide had been
progressively disappearing for a millennium or so ('before the
Shire was settled'), yet we have a couple of proto-Stoors? I don't
see how both of those can be right.

--
Michael F. Stemper
This post contains greater than 95% post-consumer bytes by weight.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 04:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
<le@top.put.com> wrote:

>In alt.fan.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Due to the fact that Sm?agol and D?agol lived on the banks of the
>> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.
>
>Or proto-Stoors..."akin to the fathers of the fathers of the
>Stoors",as Gandalf put it.

Or neither. Just related to (ancient) Stoors.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

In rec.arts.books.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26/09/2022 23.08, Louis Epstein wrote:
>> In alt.fan.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Due to the fact that Sm?agol and D?agol lived on the banks of the
>>> Anduin, it is likely that they were Stoors.
>>
>> Or proto-Stoors..."akin to the fathers of the fathers of the
>> Stoors",as Gandalf put it.
>>
>>> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
>>> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
>>> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
>>> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?
>>
>> My impression is that Tolkien represented the division into
>> Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide as something from centuries before the
>> War of the Ring that had been progressively disappearing through
>> intermixture since before the Shire was settled.
>
> This initially sounded good, but now I'm doubtful. D?agol found
> the Ring in SR 863, right? Shire Reckoning dates from the settling
> of the Shire, so the division into Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide had been
> progressively disappearing for a millennium or so ('before the
> Shire was settled'), yet we have a couple of proto-Stoors? I don't
> see how both of those can be right.

Perusing the Tale of Years,I see that in 1356 TA some Stoors
returned to Wilderland,while in 1630 TA others moved from
Dunland to the nascent Shire where other Periannath had
already settled.
The Shire was a place of intermingling while the Wilderland
Stoors had diverged rather than enter that melting pot.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On 02/10/2022 13.49, Louis Epstein wrote:
> In rec.arts.books.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 23.08, Louis Epstein wrote:
>>> In alt.fan.tolkien Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> Were Bilbo and Frodo Harfoots? I thought that this was the case,
>>>> but reading "Concerning Hobbits" several times doesn't give me
>>>> any indication of this. Can anybody point me at some textev in
>>>> tLotR for Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide?
>>>
>>> My impression is that Tolkien represented the division into
>>> Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide as something from centuries before the
>>> War of the Ring that had been progressively disappearing through
>>> intermixture since before the Shire was settled.
>>
>> This initially sounded good, but now I'm doubtful. D?agol found
>> the Ring in SR 863, right? Shire Reckoning dates from the settling
>> of the Shire, so the division into Stoor/Harfoot/Fallohide had been
>> progressively disappearing for a millennium or so ('before the
>> Shire was settled'), yet we have a couple of proto-Stoors? I don't
>> see how both of those can be right.
>
> Perusing the Tale of Years,I see that in 1356 TA some Stoors
> returned to Wilderland,while in 1630 TA others moved from
> Dunland to the nascent Shire where other Periannath had
> already settled.
> The Shire was a place of intermingling while the Wilderland
> Stoors had diverged rather than enter that melting pot.

That works for me. Thanks.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.