Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>On 9/24/2022 12:15 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>>> On 9/24/2022 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:48:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:05:22 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"
>>>>>> <morrisj@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/13/2022 1:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>>> The entry athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundry_Files describes Stross's aim of writing the first three Laundry Files novels in the pattern of other authors. The only one where I really recognised the effect of this is The Jennifer Morgue, where the Bond references are in fact integral to the plot. I've read a fair bit of Len Deighton. OTOH Wikipedia ties the general image of the underpaid under-resourced British Civil Servant to Deighton. I definitely pick up on that, but I tend to regard it as a thing in itself, and I have had enough contact with the UK Civil Service - albeit most of it decades ago now - to recognise that some of the jokes are based on a seed of fact and be amused by it - in my time there really were Civil Servants still working in temporary buildings put up for WWII.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At Fort Knox in the 70s there were still 5, 10, and 20 year temporary
>>>>>>> buildings from WWII in use. I believe they were finally replaced some
>>>>>>> time in the 80s. The joke was that there was actually no wood left, the
>>>>>>> buildings had been painted so many times that that they were composed
>>>>>>> entirely of paint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was indeed a time of transition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Fort Ord, the basic training companies were housed in modern
>>>>>> permanent buildings (3 floors, 6 platoons, two wings with an
>>>>>> admin/mess/supply area between them). But the AIT (Advanced Infantry
>>>>>> Training) companies were housed in the temporary buildings (one per
>>>>>> platoon plus admin/mess/supply, presumably, along what was literally a
>>>>>> "company street"). This was in 1969.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you'd find Fort Ord (such as it remains) quite different
>>>>> today. A friend was living there in the aughts in some of the
>>>>> former married housing units while learning Chinese at the
>>>>> Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey - bare bones housing
>>>>> by modern standards, probably pretty nice in the 60's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mythbusters used the abandoned housing areas in several
>>>>> episodes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the rest of the base is now civilian housing tracts
>>>>> and shopping centers.
>>>>
>>>> We had two smaller bases disappear on us up here too. Sad, but
>>>> unavoidable, I suppose.
>>>
>>> Here in the SF Bay Area we had multiple large bases "disappear".
>>
>> Although several of them still exist in forms that would
>> be useful in an emergency, such as Moffet and Alameda NAS.
>>
>> But it's not what it was 30 years ago when Hunters Point
>> and Mare Island were still active.
>
>And the Presidio, Hamilton AFB. There may be one or two more that I'm
>not remembering.

Chrissy field?

On 9/25/2022 10:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:20:01 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/24/2022 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:48:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:05:22 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"
>>>>> <morrisj@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/13/2022 1:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>> The entry athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundry_Files describes Stross's aim of writing the first three Laundry Files novels in the pattern of other authors. The only one where I really recognised the effect of this is The Jennifer Morgue, where the Bond references are in fact integral to the plot. I've read a fair bit of Len Deighton. OTOH Wikipedia ties the general image of the underpaid under-resourced British Civil Servant to Deighton. I definitely pick up on that, but I tend to regard it as a thing in itself, and I have had enough contact with the UK Civil Service - albeit most of it decades ago now - to recognise that some of the jokes are based on a seed of fact and be amused by it - in my time there really were Civil Servants still working in temporary buildings put up for WWII.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Fort Knox in the 70s there were still 5, 10, and 20 year temporary
>>>>>> buildings from WWII in use. I believe they were finally replaced some
>>>>>> time in the 80s. The joke was that there was actually no wood left, the
>>>>>> buildings had been painted so many times that that they were composed
>>>>>> entirely of paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was indeed a time of transition.
>>>>>
>>>>> At Fort Ord, the basic training companies were housed in modern
>>>>> permanent buildings (3 floors, 6 platoons, two wings with an
>>>>> admin/mess/supply area between them). But the AIT (Advanced Infantry
>>>>> Training) companies were housed in the temporary buildings (one per
>>>>> platoon plus admin/mess/supply, presumably, along what was literally a
>>>>> "company street"). This was in 1969.
>>>>
>>>> I think you'd find Fort Ord (such as it remains) quite different
>>>> today. A friend was living there in the aughts in some of the
>>>> former married housing units while learning Chinese at the
>>>> Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey - bare bones housing
>>>> by modern standards, probably pretty nice in the 60's.
>>>>
>>>> Mythbusters used the abandoned housing areas in several
>>>> episodes.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the rest of the base is now civilian housing tracts
>>>> and shopping centers.
>>>
>>> We had two smaller bases disappear on us up here too. Sad, but
>>> unavoidable, I suppose.
>>
>> Here in the SF Bay Area we had multiple large bases "disappear".
>
> Our closest large base was Ft. Lewis. Which, together with McChord
> AFB, became JBLM (Joint Base Lewis McChord). It survived, presumably
> because there wasn't any other major base anywhere near it.
>
> This wave of shutting bases down turned out to hit areas with a larger
> military presence harder (and/or closer alternative bases) than those
> with a smaller one (and fewer alternatives).

The joint base concept supposedly saves money by combining support
operations where more than one post/base exists. Here in San Antonio
Kelly AFB was closed in one Base Realignment and Closure action, Brooks
AFB in the next BRAC. Then Randolph AFB, Lackland AFB, and Fort Sam
Houston were combined into Joint Base San Antonio. So now for example,
the three base engineering units have been combined into one
organization with one commander, although still located at each base.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 20:09:35 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"
<morrisj@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:

>On 9/25/2022 10:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:20:01 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/24/2022 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:48:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:05:22 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"
>>>>>> <morrisj@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/13/2022 1:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>>> The entry athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundry_Files describes Stross's aim of writing the first three Laundry Files novels in the pattern of other authors. The only one where I really recognised the effect of this is The Jennifer Morgue, where the Bond references are in fact integral to the plot. I've read a fair bit of Len Deighton. OTOH Wikipedia ties the general image of the underpaid under-resourced British Civil Servant to Deighton. I definitely pick up on that, but I tend to regard it as a thing in itself, and I have had enough contact with the UK Civil Service - albeit most of it decades ago now - to recognise that some of the jokes are based on a seed of fact and be amused by it - in my time there really were Civil Servants still working in temporary buildings put up for WWII.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At Fort Knox in the 70s there were still 5, 10, and 20 year temporary
>>>>>>> buildings from WWII in use. I believe they were finally replaced some
>>>>>>> time in the 80s. The joke was that there was actually no wood left, the
>>>>>>> buildings had been painted so many times that that they were composed
>>>>>>> entirely of paint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was indeed a time of transition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Fort Ord, the basic training companies were housed in modern
>>>>>> permanent buildings (3 floors, 6 platoons, two wings with an
>>>>>> admin/mess/supply area between them). But the AIT (Advanced Infantry
>>>>>> Training) companies were housed in the temporary buildings (one per
>>>>>> platoon plus admin/mess/supply, presumably, along what was literally a
>>>>>> "company street"). This was in 1969.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you'd find Fort Ord (such as it remains) quite different
>>>>> today. A friend was living there in the aughts in some of the
>>>>> former married housing units while learning Chinese at the
>>>>> Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey - bare bones housing
>>>>> by modern standards, probably pretty nice in the 60's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mythbusters used the abandoned housing areas in several
>>>>> episodes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the rest of the base is now civilian housing tracts
>>>>> and shopping centers.
>>>>
>>>> We had two smaller bases disappear on us up here too. Sad, but
>>>> unavoidable, I suppose.
>>>
>>> Here in the SF Bay Area we had multiple large bases "disappear".
>>
>> Our closest large base was Ft. Lewis. Which, together with McChord
>> AFB, became JBLM (Joint Base Lewis McChord). It survived, presumably
>> because there wasn't any other major base anywhere near it.
>>
>> This wave of shutting bases down turned out to hit areas with a larger
>> military presence harder (and/or closer alternative bases) than those
>> with a smaller one (and fewer alternatives).
>
>The joint base concept supposedly saves money by combining support
>operations where more than one post/base exists. Here in San Antonio
>Kelly AFB was closed in one Base Realignment and Closure action, Brooks
>AFB in the next BRAC. Then Randolph AFB, Lackland AFB, and Fort Sam
>Houston were combined into Joint Base San Antonio. So now for example,
>the three base engineering units have been combined into one
>organization with one commander, although still located at each base.

To some extent, that probably makes sense. Fewer clerks might be
needed in Personnel and/or Finance, for example.

Even if the effect was to add a new level of command above the three
existing commands, logistics involving common items or supplies or
operations should be combinable and so cost less.

On one of my casual duty days after BCT but before I moved on to DLI,
I (and others) assisted an NCO in arranging "reefers" properly. These
were perfectly-ordinary refrigerators, such as might be found in your
home, and were, in fact, found in Base Housing for families when not
in the warehouse we were working in.

That sort of thing could certainly be consolidated.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."