In article <fm0dkhhlq89sc7m4movh45jrt3vv7emhj9@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>Since my father and I shared a first name in common, my mother decided
>very early on that I would be called by my middle name (which happened
>to be her father's name) rather than by my first name

My older brother is in much the same boat, which had a rather
fortunate consequence for him. My father's insurance company,
not the sharpest crayons*, managed to confuse the two of them
and provided my brother with car insurance at a rate appropriate
for a middle-aged man whose frequent car mishaps never got into
his official record. Decades later it occured to someone at
the company to wonder why a man who died in 1978 needed car
insurance and the misunderstanding was cleared up, by which
time my brother was entitled to the rate based on his actual
record.

* Same company who managed to convince large swaths of the
government that I was dead, which was extremely inconvenient
for me.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <fm0dkhhlq89sc7m4movh45jrt3vv7emhj9@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:33:53 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>If they don't, then /that/ is a weakness I would agree should be
>>looked at (to see if there is any valid reason for it) and plugged if
>>appropriate.
>
>One federal election about 10 years ago I was on the voter's list
>TWICE. After I voted I read the next name on the list and said "I'm
>pretty sure the fellow on your list won't be voting today!" They asked
>why I was so sure on that and I said "because he's me and I just voted
>and don't plan on voting a second time!" and produced my ID as proof.
>
>I >suspect< the cause was the box on the Canadian income tax form
>which if checked says "I authorize the Canada Revenue Agency to share
>my personal information with Elections Canada for the purpose of
>updating the voters' list"
>
>Since my father and I shared a first name in common, my mother decided
>very early on that I would be called by my middle name (which happened
>to be her father's name) rather than by my first name while my tax
>return calls me by my full legal name and thus one name on the list
>was under my first name the other was my middle name (which is the one
>everybody except the tax man and my pharmacist use)

(Hal Heydt)
My father and I share first and middle names, so I've just kept
"Jr." appended, even after he died in 1975. "Hal" is derived
from my middle name by way of the SCA, as there are no palatable
short forms of my first name.

My and my father's first and middle names are the first and last
names of his maternal grandfather.

Could be worse... My paternal grandfather, uncle, and cousin all
have the same names. By now, I'm pretty sure there are a couple
of more down that line, as my cousin was born in the 1930s.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 02:12:01 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:28:04 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 23:17:18 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 03:34:47 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>>We put our estate in a trust some years ago. Aside from the
>>>>house that I inherited from my mother, there isn't much.
>>>>Fortunately, our kids get along with each other. Since Dorothy
>>>>had a will, all I had to do is file that with the county. No
>>>>probate involved. It's just a matter of finding and winding
>>>>little odds and ends, most of which are being taken care of
>>>>taking her name off the one credit card we had, and closing her
>>>>checking account--which I had control over because it was in the
>>>>trust. Dunno if Canada has similar legal cover or not.
>>>
>>>If you're talking trusts then yes but the feds seem to act as if
>>>cutting red tape LENGTHWISE is what they think cutting government red
>>>tape is.
>>>
>>>My RRSPs (what you would call retirement accounts - I think the
>>>American term is "IRA") had automatic transfer to a given spousal
>>>beneficiary on death while I had to transfer ownership of my house
>>>from 'joint tenancy' to sole ownership since no title change could be
>>>made without signatures of all owners and in her case that's unlikely.
>>>When I go my children (as my heirs) will have a sizable tax bill on
>>>that account (assuming I go in the next 10 years) but capital gains on
>>>one's principal residence are tax free and given inflation in housing
>>>prices that will be much more than anything from my retirement
>>>account.
>>>
>>>That main outstanding issue at this point is filing her final tax
>>>return which is due at the same tme everybody else's is next April.
>>>For me the challenge is keeping the paperwork straight since her only
>>>2022 income is 3 months of old age pension plus liquidation of a
>>>relatively small retirement account since her bank did NOT follow my
>>>instructions on transferring her account and will therefore be deemed
>>>as a cash withdrawal subject to full tax treatment. (Again it's
>>>relatively small compared to the account I had for her with my account
>>>rep and which transferred without probate)
>>
>>When I was still working, I occasionally ran into people who had
>>fallen into that trap. I don't know if it was just an uninformed
>>decision, ignorance on the part of an executor, or the only choice
>>available (back then at least).
>
>I'm her executor and I told the bank how it was to be processed - but
>they ignored my instructions and paid it out directly in the form of a
>check which would invalidate the tax-free status.
>
>She died in early March and her only income was 3 months of the
>federal pension so hopefully that plus the RRSP payout will be below
>the minimum but if not I will just have to pay it and with the major
>banks it's NEVER their fault in terms of paying for their errors.

I empathize with you. It is clearly the bank's fault.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 02:08:46 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:33:53 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>If they don't, then /that/ is a weakness I would agree should be
>>looked at (to see if there is any valid reason for it) and plugged if
>>appropriate.
>
>One federal election about 10 years ago I was on the voter's list
>TWICE. After I voted I read the next name on the list and said "I'm
>pretty sure the fellow on your list won't be voting today!" They asked
>why I was so sure on that and I said "because he's me and I just voted
>and don't plan on voting a second time!" and produced my ID as proof.
>
>I >suspect< the cause was the box on the Canadian income tax form
>which if checked says "I authorize the Canada Revenue Agency to share
>my personal information with Elections Canada for the purpose of
>updating the voters' list"
>
>Since my father and I shared a first name in common, my mother decided
>very early on that I would be called by my middle name (which happened
>to be her father's name) rather than by my first name while my tax
>return calls me by my full legal name and thus one name on the list
>was under my first name the other was my middle name (which is the one
>everybody except the tax man and my pharmacist use)
>
>My ID of course has my full legal name whereas my VISA card and ATM
>card don't.

I was in the same situation growing up.

When I was hired as a Temp Mail Handler by the US Post Office in the
60s, their up-to-date computer-based payroll system could not handle
an initial initial followed by a middle name. So I changed it with
them -- and everyone else.

Except for relatives. Those still use my middle name. And are welcome
to do so.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

In article <rJnFCr.1vsr@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <fm0dkhhlq89sc7m4movh45jrt3vv7emhj9@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:33:53 -0700, Paul S Person
>><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>If they don't, then /that/ is a weakness I would agree should be
>>>looked at (to see if there is any valid reason for it) and plugged if
>>>appropriate.
>>
>>One federal election about 10 years ago I was on the voter's list
>>TWICE. After I voted I read the next name on the list and said "I'm
>>pretty sure the fellow on your list won't be voting today!" They asked
>>why I was so sure on that and I said "because he's me and I just voted
>>and don't plan on voting a second time!" and produced my ID as proof.
>>
>>I >suspect< the cause was the box on the Canadian income tax form
>>which if checked says "I authorize the Canada Revenue Agency to share
>>my personal information with Elections Canada for the purpose of
>>updating the voters' list"
>>
>>Since my father and I shared a first name in common, my mother decided
>>very early on that I would be called by my middle name (which happened
>>to be her father's name) rather than by my first name while my tax
>>return calls me by my full legal name and thus one name on the list
>>was under my first name the other was my middle name (which is the one
>>everybody except the tax man and my pharmacist use)
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>My father and I share first and middle names, so I've just kept
>"Jr." appended, even after he died in 1975. "Hal" is derived
>from my middle name by way of the SCA, as there are no palatable
>short forms of my first name.
>
>My and my father's first and middle names are the first and last
>names of his maternal grandfather.
>
>Could be worse... My paternal grandfather, uncle, and cousin all
>have the same names. By now, I'm pretty sure there are a couple
>of more down that line, as my cousin was born in the 1930s.

Both sides of my family like the name James but the Nicoll
side really really loved it. As a result, I was at a family
reunion where I found myself in a crowded room filled with
men named James Nicoll.

(I used to go by Hamish but Ontario schools in the 1960s were
run by jerks and they insisted I had to use the name on my
birth certificate. Then they tried to call me Jim or Jamie)
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 9:46:20 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:

[snip]

> * Same company who managed to convince large swaths of the
> government that I was dead, which was extremely inconvenient
> for me.

Given all the Nicoll Events, can you blame them?

--
Kevin R

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:46:15 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <fm0dkhhlq89sc7m4movh45jrt3vv7emhj9@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Since my father and I shared a first name in common, my mother decided
>>very early on that I would be called by my middle name (which happened
>>to be her father's name) rather than by my first name
>
>My older brother is in much the same boat, which had a rather
>fortunate consequence for him. My father's insurance company,
>not the sharpest crayons*, managed to confuse the two of them
>and provided my brother with car insurance at a rate appropriate
>for a middle-aged man whose frequent car mishaps never got into
>his official record. Decades later it occured to someone at
>the company to wonder why a man who died in 1978 needed car
>insurance and the misunderstanding was cleared up, by which
>time my brother was entitled to the rate based on his actual
>record.
>
>* Same company who managed to convince large swaths of the
>government that I was dead, which was extremely inconvenient
>for me.

The only case I know of along those lines was the time my late
grandfather (who was a commercial fisherman) rented his fishboat our
to another fisherman while he was laid up only to have his ship be one
of the victims of Ripple Rock (near Campbell River BC which was blown
up by the Canadian government in 1958 in what was at that time the
largest non-nuclear explosion ever) Before that a large number of
boats (mostly fishing trawlers) had gone down on that rock.

https://crmuseum.ca/learn/ripple-rock/

Fast forward to 1968 when my grandfather was going door to door
campaigning for a seat in the Canadian Parliament (he lost) and was
met at the door by a lady saying "Captain Shannon! I thought you were
dead!"

Turned out that in the late 1940s this woman then a high school aged
girl was from a small town that didn't yet have a high school so she
had boarded with my mother's family to finish grades 11 + 12 before
going to nurse's college. After she had left them she had read that
his fishboat had gone down at sea with all hands lost and naturally
assumed he had been on it. And believed he was gone until 20 years
later when he ran for office - she had seen his name as one of the
candidates and assumed it was another man of the same name.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 09:54:01 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>I was in the same situation growing up.
>
>When I was hired as a Temp Mail Handler by the US Post Office in the
>60s, their up-to-date computer-based payroll system could not handle
>an initial initial followed by a middle name. So I changed it with
>them -- and everyone else.
>
>Except for relatives. Those still use my middle name. And are welcome
>to do so.

You're talking about a name in the format J Edgar Hoover right?

I've just been a shortened form of my grandfather's middle name - no
first initial.

When my son entered this world my wife was insistent he been named for
her godfather (her uncle) which was fine by me and I chose the long
form of the name I use for his middle name. Then when it was clear my
grandfather was sinking fast so that he might be remembered by my
older children he wouldn't be by my son I gave him my grandfather's
middle name as well.

Which worked out well since except for the surname the resulting name
was the name of my grandfather's father who had commanded a (small)
ship in the Royal Navy in WW1 and is sort of the family hero.

I emphasized to the kids that we felt all our names should be tributes
to somebody in the family (both sides) but so far our only
grandchild's names don't mirror anybody in the family.

They named her "Charlotte Victoria" and I said to my daughter in law
'oh I didn't know you were such a royalist!' to which so 'oh no - we
just liked the name!' (we being her no doubt <grin>) Cute kid though
not named for anybody on either side. (I had tried to suggest to
daughter in law before hand that they name her for HER mother since
that was what we had done with OUR eldest....)

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 09:47:55 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>>She died in early March and her only income was 3 months of the
>>federal pension so hopefully that plus the RRSP payout will be below
>>the minimum but if not I will just have to pay it and with the major
>>banks it's NEVER their fault in terms of paying for their errors.
>
>I empathize with you. It is clearly the bank's fault.

And when did a bank ever pick up the tax bill for such a thing?
Exactly.

Guess I'll find out next February and pay whatever the taxman demands.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 13:32:19 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 09:47:55 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>She died in early March and her only income was 3 months of the
>>>federal pension so hopefully that plus the RRSP payout will be below
>>>the minimum but if not I will just have to pay it and with the major
>>>banks it's NEVER their fault in terms of paying for their errors.
>>
>>I empathize with you. It is clearly the bank's fault.
>
>And when did a bank ever pick up the tax bill for such a thing?
>Exactly.
>
>Guess I'll find out next February and pay whatever the taxman demands.

Were you in the USA, I would suggest investigating the Estimated Tax
concept. Just to be safe.

I think I should re-iterate that my experience was with USA laws and
Canada's may differ. Indeed, since this was 20 years or more ago, USA
laws may differ by now.

The theory then appeared to be that, since the money was tax-deferred,
it should come out and be taxed by either the estate or the heirs;
that is, unlike real estate or normal stocks/bonds (purchased with
taxed money and dividends taxed each year even if reinvested), it
should not be possible to pass it on intact and so form a basis of
family wealth in untaxed form.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 08:58:38 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>Were you in the USA, I would suggest investigating the Estimated Tax
>concept. Just to be safe.
>
>I think I should re-iterate that my experience was with USA laws and
>Canada's may differ. Indeed, since this was 20 years or more ago, USA
>laws may differ by now.
>
>The theory then appeared to be that, since the money was tax-deferred,
>it should come out and be taxed by either the estate or the heirs;
>that is, unlike real estate or normal stocks/bonds (purchased with
>taxed money and dividends taxed each year even if reinvested), it
>should not be possible to pass it on intact and so form a basis of
>family wealth in untaxed form.

I'm assuming that since she died in March and had no other imcome
besides 3 months of old age pension (she had just reached 65 the
previous summer) and the Canadian version of the IRA (about $12k
worth) that her tax burden would be lower than mine since I was
salaried (at considerably more than OAP) for 5 months into this year.

Plus the fact that my person return will be unusually complicated due
to handling of capital gains on the sale of my shares (to my brother)
of the family business. The first thing that the lawyer who did the
transfer told me was to hand me a business card for a particular
accountant and urge me to "(a) buy an hour of his time to explain the
rules to you so you don't inadvertently do something costly and (b)
plan on having him do your taxes next spring - call it "cheap
insurance" since Ottawa is less likely to audit a return prepared by a
CA than somebody filing through Quicktax"

I had expected to have the deal completed last September and use the
CA for my 2021 return but it took till May. Once the deal was FINALLY
completed I contacted the accountant and explained to him that the
deal hadn't been completed before the end of the 2021 tax year which
is why he hadn't heard from me but it had by May and definitely wanted
him to do my 2022 return and discussed with him the complications of
my wife's demise which he said 'while it certainly affects your
morale, doesn't affect your 2022 return materially unless she had a
lot more assets in her name than you discussed with me previously." to
which I said no and he confirmed that between spouses transfer of a
1/2 share in a house to the surviving spouse doesn't incur a tax
liability. (Which I knew and had already initiated the paperwork which
is now done - you pretty much HAVE to in this situation since when a
home is owned jointly by a couple both signatures have to be on the
document to sell the house and regretably she's no longer in a
position to sign anything)

Now IANAA ("I am not an accountant") and this was a Canadian not an
American CA so your mileage may vary.