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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

SubjectAuthor
* Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefCharles Packer
|`- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRoss Presser
|`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
| `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefCharles Packer
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefWolffan
|+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
||+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefScott Lurndal
||+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpete...@gmail.com
|| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefScott Lurndal
||  `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpete...@gmail.com
|`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefWolffan
|  +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJames Nicoll
|  +* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpeterwezeman@hotmail.com
|  |`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefWolffan
|  | `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpeterwezeman@hotmail.com
|  |  `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefWolffan
|  |   +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDimensional Traveler
|  |   `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpeterwezeman@hotmail.com
|  `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefThomas Koenig
|   `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJames Nicoll
|    `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDon
|+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
||`- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
|`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|  `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
|   `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Carnegie
|    `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDimensional Traveler
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
|`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
|  `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDefault User
|   `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDorothy J Heydt
|    `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefThe Horny Goat
|     +* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDorothy J Heydt
|     |`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|     | `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|     +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJames Nicoll
|     +* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDefault User
|     |+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJames Nicoll
|     ||+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDefault User
|     |||`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDimensional Traveler
|     ||| `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|     ||`- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefKevrob
|     |+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbeliefpeterwezeman@hotmail.com
|     |+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefWilliam Hyde
|     |`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
|     | `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJack Bohn
|     `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefMichael F. Stemper
|      +* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefThe Horny Goat
|      |`- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDorothy J Heydt
|      `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDavid Johnston
|       `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDefault User
|        `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
|+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefPaul S Person
||`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
|| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefPaul S Person
||  `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
||   `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDimensional Traveler
||    +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefPaul S Person
||    +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJames Nicoll
||    `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Carnegie
|+* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefMichael F. Stemper
||`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
|| +- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDimensional Traveler
|| +* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefRobert Woodward
|| |`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJack Bohn
|| | `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefQuadibloc
|| `* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefChris Buckley
||  `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
|`* Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefJerry Brown
| `- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew Love
+- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefDefault User
`- Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of DisbeliefAndrew McDowell

Pages:1234
Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

<rJnDn7.1B3w@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
Message-ID: <rJnDn7.1B3w@kithrup.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:57:07 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:57 UTC

In article <c42dkhloadcdccaqjjte3m262rsmdpstj1@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:27:49 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
><michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Besides just human chauvanism, there's probably a lot it because
>>>> John W. Campbell liked that sort of thing, and he paid the
>>>> highest rates in the field.
>>>
>>> That would be my presumption. I never thought much of his forays into
>>> writing but he definitely put his mark on the genre.
>>>
>>> Asimov said several times in various books like "In Memory Still
>>> Green" that he wrote several stories with sale to Campbell directly in
>>> mind.
>>
>>I had the impression that writing a story aimed at a specific editor
>>(not necessarily JWC) was a common practice.
>>
>Yep - but JWC was the king of them - at least when he was in his prime

(Hal Heydt)
One practice in the field was to send stories, if they were
rejected, to different editors in descending order pay rates.

There was also a scale of payment practices ranging from payment
on acceptance to payment on publication to payment on threat of
lawsuit. One can understand why authors tended to try to sell to
editors practicing the first two categories in preference to the
third.

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

<tidoau$3jj$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: davidjoh...@yahoo.com (David Johnston)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2022 01:43:26 -0600
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 by: David Johnston - Sat, 15 Oct 2022 07:43 UTC

On 2022-10-10 11:08 p.m., Default User wrote:
> The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 03:33:31 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> A notable example is the Berserker series by Fred Saberhagen,
>>>> which began in the 1960s.
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Besides just human chauvanism, there's probably a lot it because
>>> John W. Campbell liked that sort of thing, and he paid the
>>> highest rates in the field.
>>
>> That would be my presumption. I never thought much of his forays into
>> writing but he definitely put his mark on the genre.
>
> I'll point out that the early Berserker stories were not purchased by
> Campbell. Fred Pohl bought them for magazines that he was editing. I'm
> not sure any were bought by Campbell.
>
I don't think the earliest Berserker stories even had aliens beyond the
Berserker's extinct makers and their enemies.

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

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From: davidjoh...@yahoo.com (David Johnston)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2022 01:45:47 -0600
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 by: David Johnston - Sat, 15 Oct 2022 07:45 UTC

On 2022-10-11 7:27 a.m., Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 10/10/2022 15.08, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 03:33:31 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Hal Heydt)
>> wrote:
>
>>> Besides just human chauvanism, there's probably a lot it because
>>> John W. Campbell liked that sort of thing, and he paid the
>>> highest rates in the field.
>>
>> That would be my presumption. I never thought much of his forays into
>> writing but he definitely put his mark on the genre.
>>
>> Asimov said several times in various books like "In Memory Still
>> Green" that he wrote several stories with sale to Campbell directly in
>> mind.
>
> I had the impression that writing a story aimed at a specific editor
> (not necessarily JWC) was a common practice.
>

What was that story that had a nun and a cat specifically to appeal to a
certain editor who perhaps found it too on the nose since he rejected it
despite his fondness for nuns and cats?

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

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Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
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 by: Jack Bohn - Sat, 15 Oct 2022 14:21 UTC

David Johnston wrote:
[On Humans being the warlike species other aliens need to defend themselves]

> I don't think the earliest Berserker stories even had aliens beyond the
> Berserker's extinct makers and their enemies.

The original collection of Berserker stories had a framework of being collected by some history-keeping alien race.

--
-Jack

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

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Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
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 by: Default User - Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:13 UTC

David Johnston wrote:

>What was that story that had a nun and a cat specifically to appeal
>to a certain editor who perhaps found it too on the nose since he
>rejected it despite his fondness for nuns and cats?

Highly likely it's an old YASID of mine, answered by Dorothy along with
others:

>I believe it was from one of the magazines, 80s - 90s, something like
>that.

>An SF murder mystery, an alien group is visiting (maybe staying at) a
>religious order, when one of them is murdered. A key point is that one
>of the women (nun,probably) talked to her cat, which gave one of the
>aliens the impression that the cat was able to converse in English and
> was therefore a potential witness.

It's by Randall Garrett and came under the category of "I bet if
I put in murders, and cats, AND nuns, Tony Boucher will buy it!!"
So he wrote it and Tony didn't buy it, but _Future SF_ did, in
1958. "A Little Intelligence." It's in _The Best of Randall
Garrett_ (Pocket, 1982).

"I should say the cat was lying."

<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.written/c/OLk5Gt2gcKc/m/aBRL9U0wq1MJ>

Brian

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

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Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:46 UTC

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 1:13:20 AM UTC-6, Default User wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
>
> >What was that story that had a nun and a cat specifically to appeal
> >to a certain editor who perhaps found it too on the nose since he
> >rejected it despite his fondness for nuns and cats?
> Highly likely it's an old YASID of mine, answered by Dorothy along with
> others:
>
> >I believe it was from one of the magazines, 80s - 90s, something like
> >that.
>
> >An SF murder mystery, an alien group is visiting (maybe staying at) a
> >religious order, when one of them is murdered. A key point is that one
> >of the women (nun,probably) talked to her cat, which gave one of the
> >aliens the impression that the cat was able to converse in English and
> > was therefore a potential witness.
>
> It's by Randall Garrett and came under the category of "I bet if
> I put in murders, and cats, AND nuns, Tony Boucher will buy it!!"
> So he wrote it and Tony didn't buy it, but _Future SF_ did, in
> 1958. "A Little Intelligence." It's in _The Best of Randall
> Garrett_ (Pocket, 1982).
>
> "I should say the cat was lying."

Thank you, and if anyone is curious about what the story was like,

https://archive.org/details/Future_Science_Fiction_39_1958-10

John Savard

Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief

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Subject: Re: Things that Strain My Willing Suspension of Disbelief
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
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 by: Kevrob - Wed, 19 Oct 2022 03:35 UTC

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 9:48:04 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ti2tpa$11q8m$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

> "What Laumer and Saberhagen gave were series stories, really nice
> ones. They are the kind of thing that a lucky editor finds under
> his Christmas tree, almost as good as a serial at keeping the readers
> coming back, not as annoying to the readers who hate having their
> stories interrupted a month at a time. Of course, Santa Claus isn't
> real, so they don't actually turn up under a tree. You have to coax
> them along.
> [snip Laumer specific material]

They showed up "under the tree" if the reader received a gift subscription!

(The which I always wanted, but Santa never gave me!)

--
Kevin R

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