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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

SubjectAuthor
* Movie review: Ghostbusters 2David Brown
`* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Quadibloc
 +* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
 |`* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | +* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |`* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | | `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Dimensional Traveler
 | |  `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |   +* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Dorothy J Heydt
 | |   |+* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Dimensional Traveler
 | |   ||`- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Dorothy J Heydt
 | |   |`* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |   | `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |   |  `- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |   `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |    `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |     +* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |     |`- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |     `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |      `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Magewolf
 | |       `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 | |        `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Dimensional Traveler
 | |         `- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Ninapenda Jibini
 | `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Hamish Laws
 |  +* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Andrew Love
 |  |+- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
 |  |`- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Paul S Person
 |  `- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Johnny1A
 `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Quadibloc
  `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Robert Carnegie
   `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Quadibloc
    `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Robert Carnegie
     `* Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Quadibloc
      `- Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2Robert Carnegie

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Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: davidnbr...@gmail.com (David Brown)
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 by: David Brown - Thu, 17 Nov 2022 22:50 UTC

Here's a couple from a major backlog of movie reviews. First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered. Something I didn't get into is how to classify the franchise. Where the live-action movies are concerned, I could see science fiction or fantasy, not horror.
https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/11/the-franchise-file-3-one-that-was-most.html
And something really different for me, a review of Petrified Forest, a "mainstream" 1930s film with Humphrey Bogart.
https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/11/the-classics-file-2-one-with-humphrey.html
David N. Brown
Mesa, Arizona

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Fri, 18 Nov 2022 15:40 UTC

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.

Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.

John Savard

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

<jtppguFeg8jU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Fri, 18 Nov 2022 16:17 UTC

In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.
>
>Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
>might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>
>John Savard

I would go with "Highlander II"..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 18 Nov 2022 16:54 UTC

On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.
>>
>>Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
>>might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.

Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.

How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?

>I would go with "Highlander II"..

Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are traveling
to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other details.)

I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought /Highlander
II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the original. I
enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01 UTC

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:

> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
> wrote:
>
>>In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>> encountered.
>>>
>>>Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that
>>>movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>
> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>
> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>
>>I would go with "Highlander II"..
>
> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well, the
> Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only version on
> DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are traveling to Earth
> through /time/ or /space/. And a few other details.)
>
> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought /Highlander
> II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the original. I enjoy
> it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.

Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably the
second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from the
"main story line".

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 09:05:03 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:05 UTC

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
<Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>> encountered.
>>>>
>>>>Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that
>>>>movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>
>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>
>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>
>>>I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>
>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well, the
>> Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only version on
>> DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are traveling to Earth
>> through /time/ or /space/. And a few other details.)
>>
>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought /Highlander
>> II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the original. I enjoy
>> it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>
>Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably the
>second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from the
>"main story line".

No, I found the first two quite sufficient.

But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:04 UTC

On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that
>>>>> movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>
>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>
>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>
>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>
>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well, the
>>> Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only version on
>>> DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are traveling to Earth
>>> through /time/ or /space/. And a few other details.)
>>>
>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought /Highlander
>>> II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the original. I enjoy
>>> it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>
>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably the
>> second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from the
>> "main story line".
>
> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>
> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.

Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:11:13 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:11 UTC

On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 8:40:34 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:

> > First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.

> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
> might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.

This opens up an enormous can of worms, of course.

I remember reading of a controversy within science fiction fandom recently
in which the conservative side appeared to at least include a lot of the bad
guys.

Ages ago, first Iron Man, with James Rhodes, who later became War Machine,
wearing the titular suit, and then Green Lantern with John Stewart taking the
ring... did the obvious thing to add black heroes to the rosters of Marvel and DC.

Since, in both cases, we had heroes whose powers were based on an artifact...
someone else could wield that artifact without any retconning.

More recently, we had a black Superman - I knew it was only temporary, so
I was bemused by the panic - and Doctor Who became a woman (an earlier story,
however, established that Doctor Who was originally female as a small child,
and not even Gallifreyan, although her ability to regenerate was what enabled the
Gallefreyan race to be created) and is slated to regenerate to be played by a black
actor (who is currently unavailable, so an earlier fan favorite Doctor has returned
for their latest anniversary special).

You _don't_ have to be racist to find this sort of thing annoying, even if
suspecting the motives of those who express their annoyance too loudly is...
understandable.

After all, "Black People Need Heroes Too". Surely that's something we can
sympathize with, and regard as urgent enough to warrant some disturbance of
our favorite franchises?

I am prompted to write this, because I've encountered an article titled "Why is it
so hard to say that Wakanda Forever isn't good"... however, I'd have to watch
the video to find out what isn't good about it. Previous reviews I've seen were
glowing, and I just encountered one thing that praised it for providing a dignified
portrayal of part-Indigenous Latinos (whereas Latin-American media works hard
to present an image of Latin America that excludes them, according to that
article).

This involved a retcon - in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Prince Namor is a
god... Kukulcan!

But there is an obvious question.

Remember ICON? This was published through DC, but IIRC it has somewhat
independent origins, although it was set within DC continuity; Superman made a
guest appearance, I think, or at least was mentioned.

ICON was a new black hero, similar to Superman even in origins. He was a
non-human alien, unlike Kal-El, who was adapted by the spaceship in which he
came to Earth as an infant to look like Earth's dominant intelligent life form. It
just happened to land among black people.

So ICON, on encountering discrimination, became a disillusioned recluse, and then
a young woman found him, and encouraged him to return to being a hero, because
he was needed.

I think, though, that the answer to the obvious question is obvious
enough.

It's always hard to start an audience believing in, or caring about, a
new hero. Once a franchise has gathered momentum, on the
other hand, there is existing interest that will keep it having success.

At least Black Panther _was_ a new black hero that Marvel developed.

Originally, he was just a very minor supporting character in the pages of the
Fantastic Four, as they were fighting Klaw, Master of Sound. But he was at
least there, in case anyone would be interested in his adventures.

As black people are a minority, that means that there are a lot less
of them around in the U.S. than white people. So that's a reason for profit-focused
media companies not to be too interested in developing new franchises
built around black heroes.

Also, these days, comic books are expensive, and thus it's been noted
that they aren't a great entertainment value.

We're not living in the days when the courageous man who published
the first issue of All-Negro Comics... there was no second issue, because
no white person would sell him *paper* to print such a subversive
thing! ...had that particular difficulty.

Well, it's perhaps obvious that there are few black entrepreneurs
with fortunes that would let them compete with... Warner and Disney,
never mind DC and Marvel, which went bust, and got bought by them
respectively.

And *given* the fates of DC and Marvel, who _would_ see creating
the black heroes the black community is... percieved... as demanding
as a profitable business opportunity *as well as* service to
a good cause?

It's nice to see that people of color and women will feel more
included in the media landscape, but instead of authenticity, it
looks like they're just encouraged, like the rest of us, to become
passive consumers. Still, any remotely dignified depiction of
minority characters *is* an obvious breath of fresh air, given the
crushing presence of stereotypes for so long.

And I hear that Indiana Jones, which is going to replace the titular
character by a woman... through a time-travel plot... has so
far worked out poorly with test audiences. Different endings are
being tried.

John Savard

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: Magew...@nc.rr.com (Magewolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:41:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:41 UTC

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course,
>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>
>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>
>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>
>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>> details.)
>>>>
>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>
>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from
>>> the "main story line".
>>
>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>
>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>
> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.

The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by Kawajiri
Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire Hunter D:
Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this newsgroup is
Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Sun, 20 Nov 2022 09:27 UTC

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:54:33 AM UTC+11, Paul S Person wrote:
> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
> >>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.
> >>
> >>Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
> >>might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.

Considering how different the story is it's not a remake.
>
> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?

Because bottling lighting is damned tough
Ghostbusters II had the same cast as the original ghostbusters and wasn't anywhere near it for quality

FWIW I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a reasonable movie but nowhere near Ghostbusters
Of course I was 11 or so when I first saw Ghostbusters and 43 when I saw Ghostbusters 2016 so how I'd have felt if they were reversed who knows?

> >I would go with "Highlander II"..
> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are traveling
> to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other details.)
>
> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought /Highlander
> II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the original. I
> enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.

hollywood being hollywood the script might have started that way as well.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 20 Nov 2022 12:00 UTC

On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 22:11:16 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 8:40:34 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:
>
> > > First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've encountered.
>
> > Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course, that movie
> > might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
> This opens up an enormous can of worms, of course.
>
> I remember reading of a controversy within science fiction fandom recently
> in which the conservative side appeared to at least include a lot of the bad
> guys.
>
> Ages ago, first Iron Man, with James Rhodes, who later became War Machine,
> wearing the titular suit, and then Green Lantern with John Stewart taking the
> ring... did the obvious thing to add black heroes to the rosters of Marvel and DC.
>
> Since, in both cases, we had heroes whose powers were based on an artifact...
> someone else could wield that artifact without any retconning.
>
> More recently, we had a black Superman - I knew it was only temporary, so
> I was bemused by the panic - and Doctor Who became a woman (an earlier story,
> however, established that Doctor Who was originally female as a small child,
> and not even Gallifreyan, although her ability to regenerate was what enabled the
> Gallefreyan race to be created) and is slated to regenerate to be played by a black
> actor (who is currently unavailable, so an earlier fan favorite Doctor has returned
> for their latest anniversary special).

I'm not aware that Ncuti Gatwa is "unavailable",
but bringing back David Tennant for a year
was a secret surprise. It could look like cold feet
about Ncuti. I gather that _Sex Education_, which
he's in, is ongoing, so presumably he's doing that
around now.

> You _don't_ have to be racist to find this sort of thing annoying, even if
> suspecting the motives of those who express their annoyance too loudly is...
> understandable.
>
> After all, "Black People Need Heroes Too". Surely that's something we can
> sympathize with, and regard as urgent enough to warrant some disturbance of
> our favorite franchises?
>
> I am prompted to write this, because I've encountered an article titled "Why is it
> so hard to say that Wakanda Forever isn't good"... however, I'd have to watch
> the video to find out what isn't good about it. Previous reviews I've seen were
> glowing, and I just encountered one thing that praised it for providing a dignified
> portrayal of part-Indigenous Latinos (whereas Latin-American media works hard
> to present an image of Latin America that excludes them, according to that
> article).
>
> This involved a retcon - in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Prince Namor is a
> god... Kukulcan!

Well... Captain America was being worshipped
as a god when Namor found him frozen in ice.
But Cap was only a blurry outline... which should
be red, white, and blue...

> But there is an obvious question.
>
> Remember ICON? This was published through DC, but IIRC it has somewhat
> independent origins, although it was set within DC continuity; Superman made a
> guest appearance, I think, or at least was mentioned.
>
> ICON was a new black hero, similar to Superman even in origins. He was a
> non-human alien, unlike Kal-El, who was adapted by the spaceship in which he
> came to Earth as an infant to look like Earth's dominant intelligent life form. It
> just happened to land among black people.
>
> So ICON, on encountering discrimination, became a disillusioned recluse, and then
> a young woman found him, and encouraged him to return to being a hero, because
> he was needed.
>
> I think, though, that the answer to the obvious question is obvious
> enough.
>
> It's always hard to start an audience believing in, or caring about, a
> new hero. Once a franchise has gathered momentum, on the
> other hand, there is existing interest that will keep it having success.
>
> At least Black Panther _was_ a new black hero that Marvel developed.
>
> Originally, he was just a very minor supporting character in the pages of the
> Fantastic Four, as they were fighting Klaw, Master of Sound. But he was at
> least there, in case anyone would be interested in his adventures.

I dispute "very minor supporting character". King T'Challa
had invited the Fantastic Four to Wakanda to fight... him,
and then to team-up against /his/ enemy, Ulysses Klaw,
who was expected to attack Wakanda.

> As black people are a minority, that means that there are a lot less
> of them around in the U.S. than white people. So that's a reason for profit-focused
> media companies not to be too interested in developing new franchises
> built around black heroes.
>
> Also, these days, comic books are expensive, and thus it's been noted
> that they aren't a great entertainment value.

But many newspapers still have comics features.

It's said of representation that "You can't be what
you can't see", but you can't really be a comics
superhero anyway... though there are multiple
versions of a Black Panther Party. And very many
Doctors, of course.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 20 Nov 2022 16:09 UTC

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 5:00:14 AM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 22:11:16 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:

> > At least Black Panther _was_ a new black hero that Marvel developed.

> > Originally, he was just a very minor supporting character in the pages of the
> > Fantastic Four, as they were fighting Klaw, Master of Sound. But he was at
> > least there, in case anyone would be interested in his adventures.

> I dispute "very minor supporting character". King T'Challa
> had invited the Fantastic Four to Wakanda to fight... him,
> and then to team-up against /his/ enemy, Ulysses Klaw,
> who was expected to attack Wakanda.

Very occasional guest star, then? He was a major character in that story,
but his role in relation to the book was small, as his appearances were rare.

As far back as December 1952, Russ Manning was drawing, for DELL
comics instead of Gold Key, _Brothers of the Spear_, as a back-up feature
in Tarzan comics. That must be counted as impressive.

John Savard

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sun, 20 Nov 2022 19:41 UTC

On Sunday, 20 November 2022 at 16:09:47 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 5:00:14 AM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 22:11:16 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> > > At least Black Panther _was_ a new black hero that Marvel developed.
>
> > > Originally, he was just a very minor supporting character in the pages of the
> > > Fantastic Four, as they were fighting Klaw, Master of Sound. But he was at
> > > least there, in case anyone would be interested in his adventures.
>
> > I dispute "very minor supporting character". King T'Challa
> > had invited the Fantastic Four to Wakanda to fight... him,
> > and then to team-up against /his/ enemy, Ulysses Klaw,
> > who was expected to attack Wakanda.
> Very occasional guest star, then? He was a major character in that story,
> but his role in relation to the book was small, as his appearances were rare.

He wasn't just in that title. First appearance, April 1966;
two years later, he joined The Avengers.

> As far back as December 1952, Russ Manning was drawing, for DELL
> comics instead of Gold Key, _Brothers of the Spear_, as a back-up feature
> in Tarzan comics. That must be counted as impressive.
>
> John Savard

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Mon, 21 Nov 2022 00:42 UTC

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 12:41:51 PM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> He wasn't just in that title. First appearance, April 1966;
> two years later, he joined The Avengers.

And I was completely unaware of that. I did a search for more information,
and found his run on the Avengers lasted two years or so; _and_ that, before
there was a comic titled "Black Panther", he had a solo run on a title called
"Jungle Action" (ouch)... but according to comments quoted in the Wikipedia
article on the character, this comic was very well done; everything was
necessary in terms of the story arc, each issue unobtrusively recapped the
preceding story...

That such excellent work likely went for naught in commercial terms is, of
course, symptomatic of the underlying issue.

John Savard

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Mon, 21 Nov 2022 19:28 UTC

On Monday, 21 November 2022 at 00:42:06 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 12:41:51 PM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > He wasn't just in that title. First appearance, April 1966;
> > two years later, he joined The Avengers.
> And I was completely unaware of that. I did a search for more information,
> and found his run on the Avengers lasted two years or so; _and_ that, before
> there was a comic titled "Black Panther", he had a solo run on a title called
> "Jungle Action" (ouch)... but according to comments quoted in the Wikipedia
> article on the character, this comic was very well done; everything was
> necessary in terms of the story arc, each issue unobtrusively recapped the
> preceding story...
>
> That such excellent work likely went for naught in commercial terms is, of
> course, symptomatic of the underlying issue.

"Black Panther" did become a slightly awkward name.
Or more awkward.

Technically, Black Panther's hero name must be in
whatever Wakandans speak - I think Hausa was
mentioned, but I think Wakanda is a federation and
probably multilingual - and "panther" isn't a species.
T'Challa did in one story switch to "Black Leopard"
to stand apart from the American political movement:
this was basically dropped at once, if this plausible
telling is accurate.
<https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-black-leopard-renamed/>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther>, in the
"big cat" sense, in fact applies to a jaguar or a leopard -
if /that/ is accurate.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:02:19 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:02 UTC

In article <tlbm2k$3acth$1@dont-email.me>,
Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course,
>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>> details.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>
>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from
>>>> the "main story line".
>>>
>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>
>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>
>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>
>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by Kawajiri
>Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire Hunter D:
>Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this newsgroup is
>Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.

(Hal Heydt)
Is that the atrocity that had the dying Lensman giving a young
(teenaged?) Kimball Kinnison his lens to carry on the work and
used vanBuskirk as comic relief? If so, I don't want anything to
do with anything else he did. I dislike directors that butcher
the original work.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

<tlovrh$ohoi$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 15:48:04 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 23:48 UTC

On 11/24/2022 2:02 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <tlbm2k$3acth$1@dont-email.me>,
> Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course,
>>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
>>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>>> details.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from
>>>>> the "main story line".
>>>>
>>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>>
>>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>>
>> The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by Kawajiri
>> Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire Hunter D:
>> Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this newsgroup is
>> Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> Is that the atrocity that had the dying Lensman giving a young
> (teenaged?) Kimball Kinnison his lens to carry on the work and
> used vanBuskirk as comic relief? If so, I don't want anything to
> do with anything else he did. I dislike directors that butcher
> the original work.

So, you don't watch pretty much anything Hollywood makes then. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
From: andrewel...@msn.com (Andrew Love)
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 by: Andrew Love - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 01:00 UTC

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 4:27:05 AM UTC-5, Hamish Laws wrote:

> Because bottling lighting is damned tough
> Ghostbusters II had the same cast as the original ghostbusters and wasn't anywhere near it for quality
>
Ghostbusters II had some things I liked, but it's almost like a sequel to an alternate version of Ghostbusters.

In Ghostbusters, the secretary (Janine) is attracted to Egon; in the sequel, she's dating Tully (Moranis).
In Ghostbusters, Tully is an accountant; in the sequel he is acting as a criminal defense lawyer.

Furthermore, we have the missed plot hook: In Ghostbusters, Tully and Dana sleep together while possessed; in the sequel, Dana's baby's father is someone we never see whom she apparently married and separated from in the interim. An interesting sequel hook would have been to have the baby's father be possessed-Tully - is the baby a demon?

> FWIW I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a reasonable movie but nowhere near Ghostbusters
Likewise.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:12 UTC

In article <a03be22f-dacf-4698-8ecf-e69a7be5513dn@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Love <andrewelovejr@msn.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 4:27:05 AM UTC-5, Hamish Laws wrote:
>
>> Because bottling lighting is damned tough
>> Ghostbusters II had the same cast as the original ghostbusters and
>wasn't anywhere near it for quality
>>
>Ghostbusters II had some things I liked, but it's almost like a sequel
>to an alternate version of Ghostbusters.
>
>In Ghostbusters, the secretary (Janine) is attracted to Egon; in the
>sequel, she's dating Tully (Moranis).
>In Ghostbusters, Tully is an accountant; in the sequel he is acting as a
>criminal defense lawyer.
>
>Furthermore, we have the missed plot hook: In Ghostbusters, Tully and
>Dana sleep together while possessed; in the sequel, Dana's baby's father
>is someone we never see whom she apparently married and separated from
>in the interim. An interesting sequel hook would have been to have the
>baby's father be possessed-Tully - is the baby a demon?
>
>> FWIW I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a reasonable movie but nowhere
>near Ghostbusters
>Likewise.
>

I liked the 2021 next-gen one. Admittedly that's the only one I've seen.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 09:12:49 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 17:12 UTC

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:00:56 -0800 (PST), Andrew Love
<andrewelovejr@msn.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 4:27:05 AM UTC-5, Hamish Laws wrote:
>
>> Because bottling lighting is damned tough
>> Ghostbusters II had the same cast as the original ghostbusters and wasn't anywhere near it for quality
>>
>Ghostbusters II had some things I liked, but it's almost like a sequel to an alternate version of Ghostbusters.
>
>In Ghostbusters, the secretary (Janine) is attracted to Egon; in the sequel, she's dating Tully (Moranis).

That actually made more sense to me, as Egon is the original Cold
Fish. Tully at least shows an interest in her!

>In Ghostbusters, Tully is an accountant; in the sequel he is acting as a criminal defense lawyer.

Only because they are his friends; he mostly deals with tax accounting
and probate and similar issues. He is /not/ Perry Mason, nor does he
pretend to be.

>Furthermore, we have the missed plot hook: In Ghostbusters, Tully and Dana sleep together while possessed; in the sequel, Dana's baby's father is someone we never see whom she apparently married and separated from in the interim. An interesting sequel hook would have been to have the baby's father be possessed-Tully - is the baby a demon?

I would argue that, by avoiding that obvious link, the moviemakers
showed true courage and innovation.

This is all IMHO, of course, and YMMV.

>> FWIW I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a reasonable movie but nowhere near Ghostbusters
>Likewise.

I found it disappointing because it was so clearly a remake (not a
reboot, a remake) of the original that simply failed (for me).

This is not to say that it didn't have it's good points. Just not
enough of them.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:48:01 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 20:48 UTC

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:02:19 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <tlbm2k$3acth$1@dont-email.me>,
>Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course,
>>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
>>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>>> details.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from
>>>>> the "main story line".
>>>>
>>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>>
>>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>>
>>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by Kawajiri
>>Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire Hunter D:
>>Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this newsgroup is
>>Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>Is that the atrocity that had the dying Lensman giving a young
>(teenaged?) Kimball Kinnison his lens to carry on the work and
>used vanBuskirk as comic relief? If so, I don't want anything to
>do with anything else he did. I dislike directors that butcher
>the original work.

Isn't that something Green Lanterns are known to do from time to time?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:57:48 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 20:57 UTC

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
<Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of course,
>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ -- well,
>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>> details.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>
>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away from
>>>> the "main story line".
>>>
>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>
>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>
>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>
>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by Kawajiri
>Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire Hunter D:
>Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this newsgroup is
>Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.

Oh dear, I found the wrong one on Amazon.

The one being discussed here isn't available for streaming.

I'll be checking out the director and adding any that look reasonable
to the list, so thanks for pointing him out.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: Magew...@nc.rr.com (Magewolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:13:24 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Magewolf - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:13 UTC

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:48:01 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:02:19 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
>>In article <tlbm2k$3acth$1@dont-email.me>,
>>Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>>>>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>> <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of
>>>>>>>>> course,
>>>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ --
>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>>>> details.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away
>>>>>> from the "main story line".
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>>>
>>>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>>>
>>>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by
>>>Kawajiri Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire
>>>Hunter D: Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this
>>>newsgroup is Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.
>>
>>(Hal Heydt)
>>Is that the atrocity that had the dying Lensman giving a young
>>(teenaged?) Kimball Kinnison his lens to carry on the work and used
>>vanBuskirk as comic relief? If so, I don't want anything to do with
>>anything else he did. I dislike directors that butcher the original
>>work.
>
> Isn't that something Green Lanterns are known to do from time to time?

It has been pointed out by many people that the Lensman movie has a lot
more in common with Green Lantern than the Lensman books.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

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From: Magew...@nc.rr.com (Magewolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:52:00 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Magewolf - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:52 UTC

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:57:48 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>>>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of
>>>>>>>> course,
>>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ --
>>>>>> well,
>>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>>> details.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away
>>>>> from the "main story line".
>>>>
>>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>>
>>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>>
>>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by
>>Kawajiri Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire
>>Hunter D: Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this
>>newsgroup is Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.
>
> Oh dear, I found the wrong one on Amazon.
>
> The one being discussed here isn't available for streaming.
>
> I'll be checking out the director and adding any that look reasonable to
> the list, so thanks for pointing him out.

VHD:Bloodlust, my favorite of his movies looks to be missing from the web
but Retro Crush seems to have a few of his works available https://
www.retrocrush.tv/search?s=Yoshiaki%20Kawajiri for free viewing(with
ads) but you have to sign in(it is free to make an account) for the R
rated ones.

CYBER CITY OEDO 808 and GOKU MIDNIGHT EYE are both early Cyberpunk OVA's
with GOKU leaning more heavily into the sex and violence angle as well as
just being weirder.

WICKED CITY is a bit like Men in Black but with demons instead of aliens
and replacing Will Smith's character with a hot female demon. It also
has a lot more sex and violence.

DEMON CITY SHINJUKU is boring.

Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2

<tlrf76$13f8h$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=82351&group=rec.arts.sf.written#82351

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From: Magew...@nc.rr.com (Magewolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Movie review: Ghostbusters 2
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:22:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:22 UTC

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:52:00 +0000, Magewolf wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:57:48 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:04:31 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/19/2022 9:05 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>>>>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 08:54:25 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2022 16:17:34 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>>>>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>> <8e55c00a-3e47-4b6c-97e3-386ea8f7fbb5n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:51:01 PM UTC-7, David Brown
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> First, Ghostbusters 2, possibly the most reviled sequel I've
>>>>>>>>>> encountered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely Ghostbusters 2016 has it beat by a country mile? Of
>>>>>>>>> course,
>>>>>>>>> that movie might be considered a re-boot rather than a sequel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re-make. And not that good a re-make at that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can it copy so much from the original and still be ... less?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would go with "Highlander II"..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I liked both /Ghostbusters 2/ and /Highlander II/ --
>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>> the Renegade Version of the latter, which appears to be the only
>>>>>>> version on DVD. (The difference is whether the Immortals are
>>>>>>> traveling to Earth through /time/ or /space/. And a few other
>>>>>>> details.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always (from when I first saw it in the theater) thought
>>>>>>> /Highlander II/ would have worked better /without/ tying it to the
>>>>>>> original. I enjoy it, IOW, as a straight action thriller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you seen Highlander: The Search for Vengeance? It is probably
>>>>>> the second best Highlander movie. Partly because it stayed away
>>>>>> from the "main story line".
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I found the first two quite sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it is on Amazon, so I will give it a try. Perhaps next month.
>>>>
>>>> Its something of a Japanese Anime take on the Highlander theme.
>>>
>>>The only reason I found out about it was that it was directed by
>>>Kawajiri Yoshiaki. Famous for Wicked City,Ninja Scroll,and Vampire
>>>Hunter D: Bloodlust but perhaps his most on topic work for this
>>>newsgroup is Lensman: Secret of the Lens his first job directing.
>>
>> Oh dear, I found the wrong one on Amazon.
>>
>> The one being discussed here isn't available for streaming.
>>
>> I'll be checking out the director and adding any that look reasonable
>> to the list, so thanks for pointing him out.
>
> VHD:Bloodlust, my favorite of his movies looks to be missing from the
> web but Retro Crush seems to have a few of his works available https://
> www.retrocrush.tv/search?s=Yoshiaki%20Kawajiri for free viewing(with
> ads) but you have to sign in(it is free to make an account) for the R
> rated ones.
>
> CYBER CITY OEDO 808 and GOKU MIDNIGHT EYE are both early Cyberpunk OVA's
> with GOKU leaning more heavily into the sex and violence angle as well
> as just being weirder.
>
> WICKED CITY is a bit like Men in Black but with demons instead of aliens
> and replacing Will Smith's character with a hot female demon. It also
> has a lot more sex and violence.
>
> DEMON CITY SHINJUKU is boring.

Actually all but DEMON CITY SHINJUKU are premium ,sorry. I clicked on
the first episode of CYBER CITY OEDO 808 and it started playing and then
I tried WICKED CITY and got the "needed the free login for content" so I
sent off my message but just now I got around to closing the page and saw
the little premium tag.

It does look like GOKU MIDNIGHT EYE is free with ads on Amazon.

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