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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
+- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)pete...@gmail.com
+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Kevrob
|`- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)WolfFan
|+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Ninapenda Jibini
||`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)WolfFan
|| +- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Ninapenda Jibini
|| `* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)rkshullat
||  +* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)WolfFan
||  |+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Chris Buckley
||  ||+- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
||  ||`* [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |`* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Robert Carnegie
||  || | `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |  `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.pete...@gmail.com
||  || |   +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Scott Lurndal
||  || |   |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Gary R. Schmidt
||  || |   +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |   |+* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |   ||`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |   |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |   `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || |    `- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  || +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Jack Bohn
||  || |+* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Scott Lurndal
||  || ||`* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||  || || `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || ||  +- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Paul S Person
||  || ||  +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Joe Pfeiffer
||  || ||  |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || ||  `- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||  || |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Don
||  || +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Chris Buckley
||  || |+* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.pete...@gmail.com
||  || ||`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || |+- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Paul S Person
||  || |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || +* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Scott Lurndal
||  || |`- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Titus G
||  || +- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Paul S Person
||  || +- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Joe Pfeiffer
||  || `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Dorothy J Heydt
||  ||  `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  ||   `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.pete...@gmail.com
||  ||    `* Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Quadibloc
||  ||     `- Re: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.Paul S Person
||  |`- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)The Horny Goat
||  `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Hamish Laws
|`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
| `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Ninapenda Jibini
+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dorothy J Heydt
|+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Scott Lurndal
||`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
|| +- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|| `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dorothy J Heydt
|+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
||+- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
||+- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
||+* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dorothy J Heydt
|||`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)The Horny Goat
||| `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
||`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)The Horny Goat
|| `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
|`* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
| `* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
|  +- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
|  `* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dorothy J Heydt
|   `* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Robert Carnegie
|    +- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)pete...@gmail.com
|    +- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc
|    +* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
|    |+- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)pete...@gmail.com
|    |`- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dimensional Traveler
|    `* Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Dorothy J Heydt
|     `- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Paul S Person
`- Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)Quadibloc

Pages:1234
[OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 22 Nov 2022 21:20 UTC

As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
slightly on-topic...

Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.

Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
to Ukraine and Taiwan.

And, unlike other things Joe Biden might want to spend money on,
this would be something the Republicans would approve of, at least
given their track record.

However, nothing came of the Strategic Defense Initiative. At the
time, one major criticism of it was that computers weren't even close
to being able to perform the artificial intelligence functions required
to distinguish a missile launch from many other things.

However, that was then, and now is... now! Now, a computer can
beat Magnus Carlsen at chess, for example. But that, in itself,
while it's shown that one AI-related programming area has progressed,
is hardly enough to even suggest that SDI, once impossible, is now
possible.

But there are _other_ things that show that there has been *big* and
*obvious* progress on the AI front.

Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card - the 3000
series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of which only the
most expensive models are currently available, will do - you can use
software available from Nvidia free for it, called Nvidia Broadcast,
which can let you sit in front of your living room instead of a green screen,
and yet it will figure out what is the background, and let you replace
it with, say, your computer's screen.

In fact, there are quite a few AI-related things that are based on
low-precision matrix multiplication with modern graphics card
chips.

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

<039d6149-1cc4-41d0-8aaf-abf6a3b171f3n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 04:46 UTC

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:21:00 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
> slightly on-topic...
>
> Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>
> Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
> obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
> to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>
> And, unlike other things Joe Biden might want to spend money on,
> this would be something the Republicans would approve of, at least
> given their track record.
>
> However, nothing came of the Strategic Defense Initiative. At the
> time, one major criticism of it was that computers weren't even close
> to being able to perform the artificial intelligence functions required
> to distinguish a missile launch from many other things.
>
> However, that was then, and now is... now! Now, a computer can
> beat Magnus Carlsen at chess, for example. But that, in itself,
> while it's shown that one AI-related programming area has progressed,
> is hardly enough to even suggest that SDI, once impossible, is now
> possible.
>
> But there are _other_ things that show that there has been *big* and
> *obvious* progress on the AI front.
>
> Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card - the 3000
> series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of which only the
> most expensive models are currently available, will do - you can use
> software available from Nvidia free for it, called Nvidia Broadcast,
> which can let you sit in front of your living room instead of a green screen,
> and yet it will figure out what is the background, and let you replace
> it with, say, your computer's screen.

Huh? A standard laptop, no special cards, can do that just fine in Skype,
Zoom, or Microsoft Teams. I do it every workday. I rotate my fake
backgrounds, but prefer landscapes.

Pt

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

<27055609-9b97-42b8-bbcc-b3f9aa6fe44fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
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 by: Kevrob - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:48 UTC

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:21:00 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
> slightly on-topic...
>
> Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>
> Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
> obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
> to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>
> And, unlike other things Joe Biden might want to spend money on,
> this would be something the Republicans would approve of, at least
> given their track record.
>
> However, nothing came of the Strategic Defense Initiative. At the
> time, one major criticism of it was that computers weren't even close
> to being able to perform the artificial intelligence functions required
> to distinguish a missile launch from many other things.
>
> However, that was then, and now is... now! Now, a computer can
> beat Magnus Carlsen at chess, for example. But that, in itself,
> while it's shown that one AI-related programming area has progressed,
> is hardly enough to even suggest that SDI, once impossible, is now
> possible.
>
> But there are _other_ things that show that there has been *big* and
> *obvious* progress on the AI front.
>
> Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card - the 3000
> series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of which only the
> most expensive models are currently available, will do - you can use
> software available from Nvidia free for it, called Nvidia Broadcast,
> which can let you sit in front of your living room instead of a green screen,
> and yet it will figure out what is the background, and let you replace
> it with, say, your computer's screen.
>
> In fact, there are quite a few AI-related things that are based on
> low-precision matrix multiplication with modern graphics card
> chips.
>
>

Influence of SDI on the fate of the USSR?

[quote]

{headline}

The Phantom Menace

How an unproven, widely mocked technology scared the Soviets into ending the Cold War.

By KEN ADELMAN | May 11, 2014

{/headline}

.....author of _Reagan at Reykjavik: Forty-Eight Hours that Ended the Cold War_
 by Broadside Books, an imprint of HarperCollins, was U.S. arms control director
during the October 1986 summit in Iceland and a U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations before then.

For decades, Ronald Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)—an ambitious ground-
and space-based “shield” to protect the United States from nuclear ballistic missiles—
has been mocked and criticized. First proposed by the president in 1983, it was immediately
dubbed “Star Wars” by the mainstream media and dismissed as unscientific, infeasible
and even counter-productive. The Union of Concerned Scientists, 100,000 members strong,
was fierce in its opposition. The Arms Control Association declared that SDI would end
arms control, while some Soviets felt SDI would end the world. Domestic critics became
furious, and the Kremlin went ballistic.

But while Reagan’s critics might not have taken his pet technology seriously, the Russians
certainly did. Even though SDI was decades away from being implemented, if not beyond
the reach of technology altogether, the threat the shield presented—along with Reagan’s
dogged commitment to it—was enough to scare Soviet leader Mikhael Gorbachev into
reforms that would eventually bring down the Soviet Union. In short: “Star Wars” never
worked as Reagan wished. It worked even better. And I should know, because I saw it happen.

[/quote]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/the-phantom-menace-106551/

That's one take.

I used to joke that pundits had finally updated their anti-SF sneers,
from "that Buck Rogers stuff."

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:29 UTC

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 12:48:41 AM UTC-7, Kevrob quoted, in part:

> But while Reagan’s critics might not have taken his pet technology seriously, the Russians
> certainly did. Even though SDI was decades away from being implemented, if not beyond
> the reach of technology altogether, the threat the shield presented—along with Reagan’s
> dogged commitment to it—was enough to scare Soviet leader Mikhael Gorbachev into
> reforms that would eventually bring down the Soviet Union. In short: “Star Wars” never
> worked as Reagan wished. It worked even better. And I should know, because I saw it happen.

Well, I'm sure that it would not be possible to fool the Russians twice with
the same trick. So it's only if advances in computers really _have_ made it
possible for it to actually work now that the revival of SDI would have merit.

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: WolfFan - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 19:22 UTC

On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
(in article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>):

> Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card - the 3000
> series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of which only the
> most expensive models are currently available, will do - you can use
> software available from Nvidia free for it, called Nvidia Broadcast,
> which can let you sit in front of your living room instead of a green screen,
> and yet it will figure out what is the background, and let you replace
> it with, say, your computer's screen.

I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.

> https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 20:37 UTC

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.29329EE700566E5C70000123C38F@news.supernews.com:

> On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
> (in
> article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>):
>
>> Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card -
>> the 3000 series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of
>> which only the most expensive models are currently available,
>> will do - you can use software available from Nvidia free for
>> it, called Nvidia Broadcast, which can let you sit in front of
>> your living room instead of a green screen, and yet it will
>> figure out what is the background, and let you replace it with,
>> say, your computer's screen.
>
> I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/
>
Mostly, apparently, be real careful to plug them in correctly.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: WolfFan - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 15:30 UTC

On Nov 26, 2022, Ninapenda Jibini wrote
(in article<XnsAF5B807255980taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>):

> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
> news:0001HW.29329EE700566E5C70000123C38F@news.supernews.com:
>
> > On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
> > (in
> > article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>):
> >
> > > Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card -
> > > the 3000 series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of
> > > which only the most expensive models are currently available,
> > > will do - you can use software available from Nvidia free for
> > > it, called Nvidia Broadcast, which can let you sit in front of
> > > your living room instead of a green screen, and yet it will
> > > figure out what is the background, and let you replace it with,
> > > say, your computer's screen.
> >
> > I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
> >
> > > https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/
> Mostly, apparently, be real careful to plug them in correctly.

Apparently they have problems with the number of times that they can be
plugged into power, _and_ they have poorly placed power sockets so that the
power plugs work loose _and_ they have thin gauge power cable. It’s the
combination that’s the problem. If they had thicker cable, the cables
wouldn’t overheat and melt. If the plugs didn’t work loose, they
wouldn’t have to be reinserted. If the power sockets were placed better,
the plugs wouldn’t work loose. If the number of insert/remove cycles was
higher, there wouldn’t be so many failures.

Of course, if idiots wouldn’t pay $1500 for a video card, none of this
would matter. The video card in my main Windows box cost $150. The entire box
that I’m typing this on right now cost $1200, including upgrading the RAM,
and Apple stuff is supposed to be expensive. There is no way that I’d spend
$1500 on a video card. Ain’t happening... unless it’s a _pro_ video card,
to do actual work which makes actual money. Note that crypto Ponzi crap
ain’t real money. The company has a few machines with expensive video cards
to make actual products which make actual money. The company paid for those
cards. If a power cable melted, there would be trouble. If it was due to user
error, someone’s fired. If it’s due to design or other vendor faults,
Legal would be involved. Quickly.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 18:24 UTC

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.2933BA110098CB9F70000201338F@news.supernews.com:

> On Nov 26, 2022, Ninapenda Jibini wrote
> (in article<XnsAF5B807255980taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>):
>
>> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.29329EE700566E5C70000123C38F@news.supernews.com:
>>
>> > On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
>> > (in
>> > article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com
>> > >):
>> >
>> > > Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card
>> > > - the 3000 series, not necessarily the current 4000 series,
>> > > of which only the most expensive models are currently
>> > > available, will do - you can use software available from
>> > > Nvidia free for it, called Nvidia Broadcast, which can let
>> > > you sit in front of your living room instead of a green
>> > > screen, and yet it will figure out what is the background,
>> > > and let you replace it with, say, your computer's screen.
>> >
>> > I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
>> >
>> > > https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/
>> Mostly, apparently, be real careful to plug them in correctly.
>
> Apparently they have problems with the number of times that they
> can be plugged into power, _and_ they have poorly placed power
> sockets so that the power plugs work loose _and_ they have thin
> gauge power cable. It’s the combination that’s the problem.
> If they had thicker cable, the cables wouldn’t overheat and
> melt. If the plugs didn’t work loose, they wouldn’t have to
> be reinserted. If the power sockets were placed better, the
> plugs wouldn’t work loose. If the number of insert/remove
> cycles was higher, there wouldn’t be so many failures.

The precise details are still being investigated by all sides. But
from Nvidiea's own account, it certainly looks like a design flaw
to me.
>
> Of course, if idiots wouldn’t pay $1500 for a video card, none
> of this would matter. The video card in my main Windows box cost
> $150. The entire box that I’m typing this on right now cost
> $1200, including upgrading the RAM, and Apple stuff is supposed
> to be expensive. There is no way that I’d spend $1500 on a
> video card. Ain’t happening... unless it’s a _pro_ video
> card, to do actual work which makes actual money. Note that
> crypto Ponzi crap ain’t real money. The company has a few
> machines with expensive video cards to make actual products
> which make actual money. The company paid for those cards. If a
> power cable melted, there would be trouble. If it was due to
> user error, someone’s fired. If it’s due to design or other
> vendor faults, Legal would be involved. Quickly.
>
Legal *is* involved. At least one lawsuit has been filed, and is
seeking class action status. Which is seems likely to get. And once
it does, Nvidia will likely settle pretty quickly.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 18:25 UTC

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 12:22:23 PM UTC-7, WolfFan wrote:

> I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.

I'm aware of the issues with the 4090. Presumably, if there was _nothing_
wrong with the card itself, then there would only be fires due to people
not putting the plug in right at the same frequency as with *any other*
video card.
So, _even if_ it is true, as claimed, that if the card is plugged in properly,
there should be no problem, it's clear the design is skating too close to
the edge, with an inadequate safety margin. (I haven't researched the
issue deeply enough to have any opinion on whether or not that is true.)
But, _since_ the root is the power consumption of the 4090, that would
seem to imply there's no reason to worry (too much) about the 4080.
The AMD offering is generally considered to be the better bargain, if
one isn't seeking the advanced features of the Nvidia cards, however.

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 18:33 UTC

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:4e369656-6b39-4d07-9a6f-9d97d6bee81en@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 12:22:23 PM UTC-7, WolfFan
> wrote:
>
>> I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
>
> I'm aware of the issues with the 4090. Presumably, if there was
> _nothing_ wrong with the card itself, then there would only be
> fires due to people not putting the plug in right at the same
> frequency as with *any other* video card.
> So, _even if_ it is true, as claimed, that if the card is
> plugged in properly, there should be no problem, it's clear the
> design is skating too close to the edge, with an inadequate
> safety margin. (I haven't researched the issue deeply enough to
> have any opinion on whether or not that is true.) But, _since_
> the root is the power consumption of the 4090, that would seem
> to imply there's no reason to worry (too much) about the 4080.
> The AMD offering is generally considered to be the better
> bargain, if one isn't seeking the advanced features of the
> Nvidia cards, however.
>
AMD has had its adventures too, with Tesla recalling 130,000 cars
because of overheating by Tyzen processers in the entertainment
systems. (Though the details on that suggest it's Tesla's design flaw
in the cooling system rather than the CPU itself.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

<rM10E0.16My@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
Message-ID: <rM10E0.16My@kithrup.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:44:24 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:44 UTC

In article <3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
>slightly on-topic...
>
>Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>
>Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
>obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
>to Ukraine and Taiwan.

(Hal Heydt)
There's a report floating around that the Russians are replacing
the warheads in some of their nuclear armed missiles with inert
weights (to keep the flight dynamics stable) and using them as
decoys in hopes of getting other missiles through Ukraine's air
defenses.

Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
will to the Ukraine army.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:14 UTC

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
>>slightly on-topic...
>>
>>Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>>
>>Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
>>obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
>>to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>There's a report floating around that the Russians are replacing
>the warheads in some of their nuclear armed missiles with inert
>weights (to keep the flight dynamics stable) and using them as
>decoys in hopes of getting other missiles through Ukraine's air
>defenses.
>
>Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
>Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
>will to the Ukraine army.

The Russians have been loath to commit their elite troops
to the theater[*], for whatever reasons. They're instead sending
untrained or poorly-trained conscripts and "volunteer units"
and mercenaries. The mercenaries are recruiting from prisons,
and many of those recruits fade across the lines and surrender.

They've also been running short on uniforms, vests, food,
medicines, field hospitals etc.

[*] The one elite battalion that had been sent is basically
combat ineffective with greater than 50% casualties.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: Paul S Person - Mon, 28 Nov 2022 17:39 UTC

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:44:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
>>slightly on-topic...
>>
>>Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>>
>>Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
>>obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
>>to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>There's a report floating around that the Russians are replacing
>the warheads in some of their nuclear armed missiles with inert
>weights (to keep the flight dynamics stable) and using them as
>decoys in hopes of getting other missiles through Ukraine's air
>defenses.

That's in keeping with a report suggesting that this means they are
running out of missiles.

And every missile used as a decoy is a missile that will /not/ be
useable to deliver a nuke. This is a good thing, BTW.

>Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
>Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
>will to the Ukraine army.

I wonder if that can be treated as a Russian war crime. And those
responsible who survive long enough to be prosecuted for it. What the
Russians pretend is an "Army" is nothing of the sort.

Historically, disease has always been the major killer in war.

Just as the pursuit after the enemy breaks and runs has always killed
more of them than the actually battle.

I hope Putin's replacement has enough sense to pull back into Russia
(not the various land-grabs, but Russia as defined internationally)
and sue for terms.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 09:43:09 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Mon, 28 Nov 2022 17:43 UTC

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:14:41 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author, it is
>>>slightly on-topic...
>>>
>>>Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>>>
>>>Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
>>>obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would be helpful
>>>to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>>
>>(Hal Heydt)
>>There's a report floating around that the Russians are replacing
>>the warheads in some of their nuclear armed missiles with inert
>>weights (to keep the flight dynamics stable) and using them as
>>decoys in hopes of getting other missiles through Ukraine's air
>>defenses.
>>
>>Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
>>Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
>>will to the Ukraine army.
>
>The Russians have been loath to commit their elite troops
>to the theater[*], for whatever reasons. They're instead sending
>untrained or poorly-trained conscripts and "volunteer units"
>and mercenaries. The mercenaries are recruiting from prisons,
>and many of those recruits fade across the lines and surrender.
>
>They've also been running short on uniforms, vests, food,
>medicines, field hospitals etc.

That tends to happen when the people responsible are more interesting
in using the money for Swiss bank accounts and super-yachts than for
such boring things as the items you mention or even on weapons and
ammunition. Or the factories to produce them, I suspect.

Ukraine might want to consider erecting a bunch of GP Huge tents with
heaters and putting "Russian soldiers welcome" signs outside. Of
course, the resulting influx of POWs would have to be handled
properly.

>[*] The one elite battalion that had been sent is basically
>combat ineffective with greater than 50% casualties.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:11 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:c6s9ohpplp7ka6oe6otkdm7rakm6ej3u2r@4ax.com:

> internationally) and sue for terms.

Or *beg* for terms.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:12 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:ajs9ohlnoule17imsd7ckdkflhv8790cr1@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:14:41 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott
> Lurndal) wrote:
>
>>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>In article
>>><3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>As this refers to Jerry Pournelle, a science-fiction author,
>>>>it is slightly on-topic...
>>>>
>>>>Yes, _that_ Star Wars: the Strategic Defense Initiative.
>>>>
>>>>Making Russia's (and China's) nuclear arsenals "impotent and
>>>>obsolete" would be all very well if we could do it. It would
>>>>be helpful to Ukraine and Taiwan.
>>>
>>>(Hal Heydt)
>>>There's a report floating around that the Russians are
>>>replacing the warheads in some of their nuclear armed missiles
>>>with inert weights (to keep the flight dynamics stable) and
>>>using them as decoys in hopes of getting other missiles through
>>>Ukraine's air defenses.
>>>
>>>Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
>>>Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than
>>>they will to the Ukraine army.
>>
>>The Russians have been loath to commit their elite troops
>>to the theater[*], for whatever reasons. They're instead
>>sending untrained or poorly-trained conscripts and "volunteer
>>units" and mercenaries. The mercenaries are recruiting from
>>prisons, and many of those recruits fade across the lines and
>>surrender.
>>
>>They've also been running short on uniforms, vests, food,
>>medicines, field hospitals etc.
>
> That tends to happen when the people responsible are more
> interesting in using the money for Swiss bank accounts and
> super-yachts than for such boring things as the items you
> mention or even on weapons and ammunition. Or the factories to
> produce them, I suspect.
>
> Ukraine might want to consider erecting a bunch of GP Huge tents
> with heaters and putting "Russian soldiers welcome" signs
> outside. Of course, the resulting influx of POWs would have to
> be handled properly.

I'm reminded of the US invastion of Iraq, when entire units would
surrender simply because as POWs they'd be given food an water.
They would disarmed, and pointed down a road - without escort - and
told "go x miles and you'll be fed." (And one unit that surrended
to a journalist.)

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 05:50 UTC

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:52:42 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:

> Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
> Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
> will to the Ukraine army.

That isn't a horror. That's good news.

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 06:01 UTC

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:39:51 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:

> I hope Putin's replacement has enough sense to pull back into Russia
> (not the various land-grabs, but Russia as defined internationally)
> and sue for terms.

I hope so too. However, some of the news I've been reading suggests that
the likeliest successors to Putin, if patience is lost with his handling of the
conflict, are going to be hard-liners worse than him. Of course, this may be
the only pose they can take now, consistent with survival, and when Putin is
out of the way, they may change their tune.

If not, given the rhetoric from the more hard-line element in Russia, the
question of a successor to Putin's hardline successor may not arise. For
the same reason as the 2024 Presidential Election may not be held.
Radioactive wastelands do not require governance.

Obviously, of course, this is something that we wish to avoid, but not at
the price of letting Russia get away with aggression. Why not? Surely
letting the Ukrainians suffer under oppression as the price of avoiding
World War III is no worse than letting the Vietnamese or the North Koreans
do so for the same reason?

The answer, of course, is that the pattern in Putin's behavior means that
the next dominoes are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland... and Germany
and France. (How Russia is supposed to roll over these countries after its
troop losses in Ukraine, of course, is a real question.)

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: rkshul...@rosettacondot.com - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 15:15 UTC

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2022, Ninapenda Jibini wrote
> (in article<XnsAF5B807255980taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>):
>
>> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.29329EE700566E5C70000123C38F@news.supernews.com:
>>
>> > On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
>> > (in
>> > article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>):
>> >
>> > > Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card -
>> > > the 3000 series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of
>> > > which only the most expensive models are currently available,
>> > > will do - you can use software available from Nvidia free for
>> > > it, called Nvidia Broadcast, which can let you sit in front of
>> > > your living room instead of a green screen, and yet it will
>> > > figure out what is the background, and let you replace it with,
>> > > say, your computer's screen.
>> >
>> > I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
>> >
>> > > https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/
>> Mostly, apparently, be real careful to plug them in correctly.
>
> Of course, if idiots wouldn’t pay $1500 for a video card, none of this
> would matter. The video card in my main Windows box cost $150. The entire box
> that I’m typing this on right now cost $1200, including upgrading the RAM,
> and Apple stuff is supposed to be expensive. There is no way that I’d spend
> $1500 on a video card. Ain’t happening... unless it’s a _pro_ video card,
> to do actual work which makes actual money. Note that crypto Ponzi crap

I'm guessing you're not a gamer. I lost my previous video card at the height
of the crypto craze and ended up having to pay $769 for a comparable
replacement. While I personally wouldn't sink $1500 into a card I can easily
see serious gamers doing it (the really serious ones would probably go dual).
I'm still running on dual 1080p monitors, so I'm definitely not in the
"serious gamer" category.
In a lot of ways it's like audio. My audiophile friends sink more into
individual speakers than I have invested in all of my A/V equipment combined.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 17:16 UTC

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 21:50:56 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:52:42 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:
>
>> Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
>> Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
>> will to the Ukraine army.
>
>That isn't a horror. That's good news.

Not really. They are as much victims of Putin as Ukraine is.

But that is a problem for the Russians to resolve. They voted for
Putin, they liked Putin, the question is -- what do they do now?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

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Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 05:01 UTC

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 10:16:17 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 21:50:56 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:52:42 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:
> >
> >> Or, if you want a real horror... There is an estimate that
> >> Russia will lose more troops this winter to hypothermia than they
> >> will to the Ukraine army.

> >That isn't a horror. That's good news.

> Not really. They are as much victims of Putin as Ukraine is.

That is true. But until a Russian soldier in Ukraine throws down
his weapons, and surrenders to Ukraine, he is a danger to the lives
of the Ukrainian people, and the sooner that danger is ended
the better.

So if the cold causes more Russian soldiers to die sooner, that will
save Ukrainian lives, which is what makes it good news. There is a
war on. And it is Ukrainian lives that matter, not enemy lives.

John Savard

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:08:48 -0500
From: akwolf...@zoho.com (WolfFan)
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 by: WolfFan - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 13:08 UTC

On Nov 29, 2022, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote
(in article<tm57mg$het8$2@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>):

> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 26, 2022, Ninapenda Jibini wrote
> > (in article<XnsAF5B807255980taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>):
> >
> > > WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.29329EE700566E5C70000123C38F@news.supernews.com:
> > >
> > > > On Nov 22, 2022, Quadibloc wrote
> > > > (in
> > > > article<3623f41d-9881-49ec-80aa-18f5e5f6b2a1n@googlegroups.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > Thus, for example, if you buy a recent Nvidia graphics card -
> > > > > the 3000 series, not necessarily the current 4000 series, of
> > > > > which only the most expensive models are currently available,
> > > > > will do - you can use software available from Nvidia free for
> > > > > it, called Nvidia Broadcast, which can let you sit in front of
> > > > > your living room instead of a green screen, and yet it will
> > > > > figure out what is the background, and let you replace it with,
> > > > > say, your computer's screen.
> > > >
> > > > I’d be real careful with Nvidia 4000 series cards.
> > > >
> > > > > https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/18/nvidia_flawsuit_4090/
> > > Mostly, apparently, be real careful to plug them in correctly.
> >
> > Of course, if idiots wouldn’t pay $1500 for a video card, none of this
> > would matter. The video card in my main Windows box cost $150. The entire
> > box
> > that I’m typing this on right now cost $1200, including upgrading the RAM,
> > and Apple stuff is supposed to be expensive. There is no way that I’d
> > spend
> > $1500 on a video card. Ain’t happening... unless it’s a _pro_ video
> > card,
> > to do actual work which makes actual money. Note that crypto Ponzi crap
>
> I'm guessing you're not a gamer. I lost my previous video card at the height
> of the crypto craze and ended up having to pay $769 for a comparable
> replacement. While I personally wouldn't sink $1500 into a card I can easily
> see serious gamers doing it (the really serious ones would probably go dual).
> I'm still running on dual 1080p monitors, so I'm definitely not in the
> "serious gamer" category.
> In a lot of ways it's like audio. My audiophile friends sink more into
> individual speakers than I have invested in all of my A/V equipment combined.
>
> Robert

Not a gamer, unless Civilization V and VI, and Bejeweled, and FreeCell count.
And I mostly play those on my iPad.

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
Date: 30 Nov 2022 15:34:26 GMT
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 by: Chris Buckley - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 15:34 UTC

On 2022-11-30, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2022, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote
>> I'm guessing you're not a gamer. I lost my previous video card at the height
>> of the crypto craze and ended up having to pay $769 for a comparable
>> replacement. While I personally wouldn't sink $1500 into a card I can easily
>> see serious gamers doing it (the really serious ones would probably go dual).
>> I'm still running on dual 1080p monitors, so I'm definitely not in the
>> "serious gamer" category.
>> In a lot of ways it's like audio. My audiophile friends sink more into
>> individual speakers than I have invested in all of my A/V equipment combined.
>>
>> Robert
>
> Not a gamer, unless Civilization V and VI, and Bejeweled, and FreeCell count.
> And I mostly play those on my iPad.

What? Civ V and VI plus Freecell but no Spider Solitaire?

I've played many thousands of Spider games over the years. It's a very
well-balanced optimization game - I enjoy it for the same reasons that
I enjoyed the Civ games. It may take a while before you win your first
game (especially if you don't allow takebacks), but you can push the
optimizations to the point where you are winning over a third of
your games (with no takebacks).

Watch out for poor implementations - those floating around based on the
Windows 7 free version have a remarkably poor RNG. I use SolSuite which
I like a lot, but it's Windows only.

Chris

Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] The Return of Star Wars (Graphics Cards)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:11:02 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11 UTC

On 30 Nov 2022 15:34:26 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:

>On 2022-11-30, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 29, 2022, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote
>>> I'm guessing you're not a gamer. I lost my previous video card at the height
>>> of the crypto craze and ended up having to pay $769 for a comparable
>>> replacement. While I personally wouldn't sink $1500 into a card I can easily
>>> see serious gamers doing it (the really serious ones would probably go dual).
>>> I'm still running on dual 1080p monitors, so I'm definitely not in the
>>> "serious gamer" category.
>>> In a lot of ways it's like audio. My audiophile friends sink more into
>>> individual speakers than I have invested in all of my A/V equipment combined.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>> Not a gamer, unless Civilization V and VI, and Bejeweled, and FreeCell count.
>> And I mostly play those on my iPad.
>
>What? Civ V and VI plus Freecell but no Spider Solitaire?
>
>I've played many thousands of Spider games over the years. It's a very
>well-balanced optimization game - I enjoy it for the same reasons that
>I enjoyed the Civ games. It may take a while before you win your first
>game (especially if you don't allow takebacks), but you can push the
>optimizations to the point where you are winning over a third of
>your games (with no takebacks).
>
>Watch out for poor implementations - those floating around based on the
>Windows 7 free version have a remarkably poor RNG. I use SolSuite which
>I like a lot, but it's Windows only.

A properly-implemented Spider was the reason I bought SolSuite a long
time ago.

I had to search because the first version I tried would not allow deep
enough stacks to actually play the game. This was the result of trying
to fit /every/ solitaire card game included into the same interface.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

[OT] Dumb Spider Question.

<tm9d3b$2o7n5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: [OT] Dumb Spider Question.
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 18:12:11 +1300
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 by: Titus G - Thu, 1 Dec 2022 05:12 UTC

On 1/12/22 04:34, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2022-11-30, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
snip

> I've played many thousands of Spider games over the years. It's a
> very well-balanced optimization game - I enjoy it for the same
> reasons that I enjoyed the Civ games. It may take a while before you
> win your first game (especially if you don't allow takebacks), but
> you can push the optimizations to the point where you are winning
> over a third of your games (with no takebacks).
>
> Watch out for poor implementations - those floating around based on
> the Windows 7 free version have a remarkably poor RNG. I use
> SolSuite which I like a lot, but it's Windows only.

I don't understand how there can be somewhat predictable, (or
"remarkably poor"), random numbers as I had always assumed that
unpredicability was a subset of randomness and that all random number
sequences were random. I am not a gamer but some decades ago wore out a
few packs of plastic playing cards playing Spider without takebacks.
As an afterthought. That number of games played sharpened the speed and
appearance of my shuffling skills which probably developed into a
routine. So in theory, does that mean that the sequence of cards in a
shuffled pack after many, many, iterations would become close to
predictable?
I use Linux and see that Spider is in the AisleRiot package. How would I
determine which Spider software had a better RNG? Thank you.

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