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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

SubjectAuthor
* [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" SmiJames Nicoll
+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
|+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJames Nicoll
||`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
|+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
||`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
|`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byRobert Carnegie
| +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDimensional Traveler
| |`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
| | `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
| `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
|  +- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMichael F. Stemper
|  `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMike Van Pelt
+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
|+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
||+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMichael F. Stemper
||`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"David Duffy
|+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
|`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMike Van Pelt
| +- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
| +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byRobert Carnegie
| |+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
| ||`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
| |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
| +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
| |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMike Van Pelt
| +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
| |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byTitus G
| `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
|  `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
|   `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAhasuerus
|+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
||+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
||`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAhasuerus
|| +- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMike Van Pelt
|| `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
||  +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||  |+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypete...@gmail.com
||  ||+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
||  ||`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byQuadibloc
||  || `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  ||  `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byTim McCaffrey
||  ||   +- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Scott Lurndal
||  ||   +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMichael F. Stemper
||  ||   |+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  ||   ||`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMichael F. Stemper
||  ||   || `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  ||   |`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  ||   | `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
||  ||   `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  |`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
||  | +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
||  | |+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
||  | |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||  | +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | |+* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Dorothy J Heydt
||  | ||+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
||  | ||`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byRobert Carnegie
||  | || `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||  | ||  +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byRobert Carnegie
||  | ||  |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byMagewolf
||  | ||  `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | ||   +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypete...@gmail.com
||  | ||   |+- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
||  | ||   |`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | ||   `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||  | ||    `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | |`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | | `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | |  `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | |   `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | |    +- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byAndrew McDowell
||  | |    `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | |     `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | |      `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | +* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byKevrob
||  | |`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
||  | | `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
||  | |  `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | |   `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | |    `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byWilliam Hyde
||  | |     `* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
||  | |      `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Paul S Person
||  | `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byDorothy J Heydt
||  `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) byJohnny1A
|`* Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
| `- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) bypeterwezeman@hotmail.com
`- Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc"Robert Woodward

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Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Mon, 21 Nov 2022 21:57 UTC

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:06:47 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:20:06 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 12:07:36 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:08:09 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 11:26:13 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:18:57 -0800 (PST), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> >> >> <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <0294beac-be41-47eb...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >> >> >> >If *classical music* can die, surely the idea that science fiction can
> >> >> >> >also die is not an outrageous one. While science fiction is not dead in
> >> >> >> >the sense of being absolutely nonexistent, I would say that it was dying
> >> >> >> >in the period of the New Wave, and today it indeed is dead, living on
> >> >> >> >in movies, in mil-sf, and in various other dying embers.
> >> >> >> >Not being a biological entity, though, science fiction could be reborn,
> >> >> >> >and for that matter, so could classical music.
> >> >> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> >> >> If the local classical station--KDFC--is anything to go by,
> >> >> >> classical music is gathering in styles that didn't used to be
> >> >> >> considered classical, such as Ragtime. They also play chunks of
> >> >> >> music from films--plenty of John Williams, who they have to
> >> >> >> announce carefully as there is an Australian classical guitarist
> >> >> >> named John Williams--and also from video games.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not sure if you'd fit it in or not, but this morning they played
> >> >> >> Gershwin's "An American in Paris".
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> They've also been known to play Sousa.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I read a piece claiming John Williams and others are not just the best film music
> >> >> >composers but the best contemporary composers. "Modern" composers, for
> >> >> >whatever reasons, do not use what the author called the symphonic form, which
> >> >> >has great and possibly unique emotional resonance for people. This emotionality
> >> >> >is needed for film, stage, and television scores, so those industries continue to
> >> >> >support the creation of new music that people find emotionally engaging, whereas
> >> >> >"pure" composers have moved on to new forms.
> >> >> So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> >> >> the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> >> >
> >> >But that is always the claim made by musical conservatives. And, fifty years
> >> >later it is often shown to be wrong.
> >> That may be, but it still remains that 90% of everything is crap.
> >
> >Most "classical" music has been filtered through decades of time, if
> >not centuries, so some stinker written in 1750 is now known
> >only to scholars. Anything modern, of any style, has yet to go
> >through this process.
> >
> >
> >> >In the case of Schonberg, it didn't take that long. "Verklarte Nacht" was condemned
> >> >as unmusical, then later in his career cited as evidence that he could write good
> >> >listenable music instead of this new stuff.
> >> >
> >> >Richard Reti wrote his "New ideas in chess" in part to defend innovators in music,
> >> >art, and literature from conservative critics. He pointed out that the new
> >> >ideas in chess got the same criticism, but in chess there is a more rapid
> >> >way of establishing whether new ideas are justified - by winning games
> >> >with them.
> >> When my brother was in the hospital a few years back, he watched
> >> movies on TV to pass the time. He noted that a lot of them were films
> >> he remembered from the 70s or 80s. I told him they were "the New
> >> Classics".
> >>
> >> They were, IOW, now-classic films we had seen in a theater when we
> >> were younger, as opposed to classic films we had never seen in a
> >> theater (having been born too late to do so) but had seen on
> >> late-night TV.
> >> >That said the most "unmusical' pieces I listen to with any regularity are
> >> >Messaien's quartet, Prokoviev's second symphony and some
> >> >Stockhausen. I used to enjoy Webern, but haven't listened to any
> >> >of his work for decades. The older I get the more conservative
> >> >my taste seems to become.
> >> >
> >> >I have listened to a fair amount of Xenakis, but that's more an exercise
> >> >in intellect than music. I have no emotional response to his work.
> >
> >> I bought his /Oresteia/ from MHS, but it didn't make the cut to be
> >> included in my current mp3 file collection.
> >
> >Long ago I listened many times to his statistically-inspired pieces,
> >"metastasis" and "pithoprakta". I have an album of his more
> >experimental pieces, which makes the former seem like
> >Hayden.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> It's in a box, one of six, containing LPs that either didn't make the
> >> cut or did but were replaced by a CD. That's /nine linear feet/ of
> >> LPs, BTW. I'm waiting for enough time to investigate what to do with
> >> them.
> >
> >Impressive. I've four feet, five at the most. Eventually, I assume, they'll
> >be in some sort of jumble sale. As I recorded most of my music,
> >many have been played only once or twice.
> I was working myself up to start calling used-LP stores to see if any
> would just come over and take them away (at no cost to me, and no
> payment from them), but then the pandemic hit and things shut down for
> a bit.
>
> I've taken LPs to used-LP stores. They pick-and-choose, leaving me
> with a bunch of Certified Losers. That is what I am trying to avoid.
> Along with having to pay someone to move the boxes to (presumably) a
> truck and take them somewhere. (1.5 linear feet of LPs is ... quite
> heavy.)

When I was a student I picked up a number of good LP at charity sales.
A woman's scholarship fund in Waterloo would accept all such
donations for their biannual sale. Something similar may still
exist.

>
> I ripped the CDs and used an alternative to the Windows digitization
> system to get some /good/ digitizations of the LPs I couldn't replace
> (and which are not in those boxes, but upstairs with the souvenirs and
> inherited LPs -- life can be /very/ complicated).

This is a task I will probably never undertake. I do have LPs dating to the
1950s, some of which I would like to clean up and digitize.

> >> >The oldest piece in my collection was written circa 600, but the vast bulk
> >> >of my listening is in the period from Bach to Shostakovitch.
> >> I might or might not have something that old, presuming it is a part
> >> of a liturgy or similar context. I have a lot of "variations" on
> >> various songs; the variations are Medieval, but the songs may be
> >> older.
> >
> >I have two short pieces, one probably by Henry VIII, another, on far less
> >firm ground, said to be by Richard II. All of this, including the above,
> >is on LP so not currently accessible to me.
> Flanders & Swann suggested Henry VIII wrote "Greensleeves", but they
> were probably joking.

I've heard this suggested in non-comic contexts, but I don't think anyone takes
it seriously. The style is wrong for the early 1500s.

The piece I have is plausibly the work of a serious student of music, perhaps
touched up here and there by a court musician.

Henry was proud of his skills, though, and wouldn't have accepted much
editing. Just as he was proud of his knowledge of church law, and would
not heed Wolsey's advice on how to get an annulment (not that it would
have mattered).


Click here to read the complete article
Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:05 UTC

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:47:45 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:48:31 PM UTC-5, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> > And Gustav Holst. The influence of Holst's 'The Planets' is there to be heard in Williams' Star Wars work.
> >> Does anyone agree or disagree with the statement above that classical music has an
> >> "emotionality" that later forms of music either lack or have to a lesser degree?
> >
> >Verklarte Nacht, again, is a very emotional piece, which is obvious from the first few
> >bars. Messiaen's "Quartet for the end of time" is also a piece that pulls at my emotions, even
> >though I do not share the composer's eschatology. At a concert in honour of the latter, four
> >pieces by his students were played. Two had no noticeable effect on me, except to make
> >me check my watch. The other two, though, had content.
> >
> >And let's not forget that Dave Brubeck studied with Darius Milhaud.
> >
> >That said, I never got much emotional content from Webern, and none from Xenakis. It took a while
> >for me to find it in Stockhausen (few of whose works I have heard more than once).
> >
> >Iain Banks seemed to imply that the "Hydrogen Sonata" was intended to be as unlistenable as
> >it was unplayable.
> >
> > Does anyone
> >> think that "the symphonic form" is or is not a useful term to distinguish classical music
> >> from later forms?
> >
> > "Sonata form" is a term that is relatively useful, but well known symphonies
> >vary from a few minutes (early Mozart, Boyce) to an hour and a half (Mahler's third),
> >and, while they mostly have four movements, can have anywhere from two to eight,
> >the term doesn't mean much to me.
> >
> >Though "la Mer" and "Das Lied von der Erde" could easily be called symphonies,
> >both composers declined to name them so.
> >
> >And of course most "classical" music isn't symphonic at all.
> >
> >This post written while listening to Finzi's "Cello Concerto". Romantic? Neo-Classical?
> >I've no idea. Finzi's influences included Holst, Vaughn Williams, and apples.
> Are you counting the earlier sinfonias as symphonies? My impression is
> that they are generally not considered the same thing.

Sinfonia, again, has multiple meanings, one of which seems to be "short symphonies". But as
far as I can tell Boyce's works are called symphonies, short as they are.

William Hyde

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<v6vpnh1elpi6bucoac6qrgmqjabivper9c@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:08:56 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:08 UTC

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:57:13 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:06:47 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:

<snippo>

>When I was a student I picked up a number of good LP at charity sales.
>A woman's scholarship fund in Waterloo would accept all such
>donations for their biannual sale. Something similar may still
>exist.

Such a thing may exist (an organization known as The Friends of the
Library may, at one time, have done this), but would they come and
pick them up, doing all the lifting and hauling themselves? Seems
unlikely.
>> I ripped the CDs and used an alternative to the Windows digitization
>> system to get some /good/ digitizations of the LPs I couldn't replace
>> (and which are not in those boxes, but upstairs with the souvenirs and
>> inherited LPs -- life can be /very/ complicated).
>
>This is a task I will probably never undertake. I do have LPs dating to the
>1950s, some of which I would like to clean up and digitize.

What I used was ASIO
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output], using a
U-Control UCA202
[https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-U-CONTROL-UCA202-Ultra-Low-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=290GJG9L7KWLV&keywords=U-Control+UCA202&qid=1669135967&sprefix=u-control+uca202%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-1].

This involved free software downloads: a driver, a patch panel, and an
audio editor. Testing with the device and Kristal Audio Engine (the
patch panel) caused me to select "Fast" as the speed, as this produce
58.67 samples/second -- at normal priority per Windows (upping it to
the maximum had no effect).

IIRC, I was able to get DVD-quality audio out of it, not just
CD-quality. But I don't recall the details, and, unlike the sps cited
above, appear to have lost the information. This may have depended on
using Kristal.

I found something else that is worth considering: when I replaced my
XP computer with a Windows 8.1 HP Envy computer quality dropped. Some
checking soon suggested that, since ASIO was not part of Windows,
Windows could not see it, and so felt free to do massive operations
(Anti-Virus scans, disk optimization, who can say what?) while I was
digitizing. This caused packets to be dropped (so to speak, at least).

I bought a 2TB external drive to use with the HP Envy, and testing
showed both that Windows did /not/ do this to that drive, and that
that drive was plenty fast enough (it is a USB 3 drive, BTW) to
digitize audio with ASIO.

You probably didn't want this much detail but, if you ever decide to
get into digitization, you may find it useful.

One final note: as, IIRC, one of the reviews notes, the device is in a
plastic case. But this is not problem as long as you don't drop it on
the floor and stomp on it. Some reviewers whine about the /weirdest/
things!
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<5b84b6c1-8a44-43d4-8706-06c7f4e3ba04n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: peterwez...@hotmail.com (peterwezeman@hotmail.com)
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 by: peterwezeman@hotmail - Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:59 UTC

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 4:05:10 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:47:45 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
> > <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:48:31 PM UTC-5, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> > And Gustav Holst. The influence of Holst's 'The Planets' is there to be heard in Williams' Star Wars work.
> > >> Does anyone agree or disagree with the statement above that classical music has an
> > >> "emotionality" that later forms of music either lack or have to a lesser degree?
> > >
> > >Verklarte Nacht, again, is a very emotional piece, which is obvious from the first few
> > >bars. Messiaen's "Quartet for the end of time" is also a piece that pulls at my emotions, even
> > >though I do not share the composer's eschatology. At a concert in honour of the latter, four
> > >pieces by his students were played. Two had no noticeable effect on me, except to make
> > >me check my watch. The other two, though, had content.
> > >
> > >And let's not forget that Dave Brubeck studied with Darius Milhaud.
> > >
> > >That said, I never got much emotional content from Webern, and none from Xenakis. It took a while
> > >for me to find it in Stockhausen (few of whose works I have heard more than once).
> > >
> > >Iain Banks seemed to imply that the "Hydrogen Sonata" was intended to be as unlistenable as
> > >it was unplayable.
> > >
> > > Does anyone
> > >> think that "the symphonic form" is or is not a useful term to distinguish classical music
> > >> from later forms?
> > >
> > > "Sonata form" is a term that is relatively useful, but well known symphonies
> > >vary from a few minutes (early Mozart, Boyce) to an hour and a half (Mahler's third),
> > >and, while they mostly have four movements, can have anywhere from two to eight,
> > >the term doesn't mean much to me.
> > >
> > >Though "la Mer" and "Das Lied von der Erde" could easily be called symphonies,
> > >both composers declined to name them so.
> > >
> > >And of course most "classical" music isn't symphonic at all.
> > >
> > >This post written while listening to Finzi's "Cello Concerto". Romantic? Neo-Classical?
> > >I've no idea. Finzi's influences included Holst, Vaughn Williams, and apples.
> > Are you counting the earlier sinfonias as symphonies? My impression is
> > that they are generally not considered the same thing.
> Sinfonia, again, has multiple meanings, one of which seems to be "short symphonies". But as
> far as I can tell Boyce's works are called symphonies, short as they are.

This definition is from the Britannica website:

"symphony, a lengthy form of musical composition for orchestra, normally
consisting of several large sections, or movements, at least one of which
usually employs sonata form (also called first-movement form)."

Would anyone add any further qualifications to it?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<2kjsnhtrp14n909gjohblthi2dli2dd1i2@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 08:47:50 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:47 UTC

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 15:59:28 -0800 (PST), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 4:05:10 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
>> > On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:47:45 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
>> > <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:48:31 PM UTC-5, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> > And Gustav Holst. The influence of Holst's 'The Planets' is there to be heard in Williams' Star Wars work.
>> > >> Does anyone agree or disagree with the statement above that classical music has an
>> > >> "emotionality" that later forms of music either lack or have to a lesser degree?
>> > >
>> > >Verklarte Nacht, again, is a very emotional piece, which is obvious from the first few
>> > >bars. Messiaen's "Quartet for the end of time" is also a piece that pulls at my emotions, even
>> > >though I do not share the composer's eschatology. At a concert in honour of the latter, four
>> > >pieces by his students were played. Two had no noticeable effect on me, except to make
>> > >me check my watch. The other two, though, had content.
>> > >
>> > >And let's not forget that Dave Brubeck studied with Darius Milhaud.
>> > >
>> > >That said, I never got much emotional content from Webern, and none from Xenakis. It took a while
>> > >for me to find it in Stockhausen (few of whose works I have heard more than once).
>> > >
>> > >Iain Banks seemed to imply that the "Hydrogen Sonata" was intended to be as unlistenable as
>> > >it was unplayable.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone
>> > >> think that "the symphonic form" is or is not a useful term to distinguish classical music
>> > >> from later forms?
>> > >
>> > > "Sonata form" is a term that is relatively useful, but well known symphonies
>> > >vary from a few minutes (early Mozart, Boyce) to an hour and a half (Mahler's third),
>> > >and, while they mostly have four movements, can have anywhere from two to eight,
>> > >the term doesn't mean much to me.
>> > >
>> > >Though "la Mer" and "Das Lied von der Erde" could easily be called symphonies,
>> > >both composers declined to name them so.
>> > >
>> > >And of course most "classical" music isn't symphonic at all.
>> > >
>> > >This post written while listening to Finzi's "Cello Concerto". Romantic? Neo-Classical?
>> > >I've no idea. Finzi's influences included Holst, Vaughn Williams, and apples.
>> > Are you counting the earlier sinfonias as symphonies? My impression is
>> > that they are generally not considered the same thing.
>> Sinfonia, again, has multiple meanings, one of which seems to be "short symphonies". But as
>> far as I can tell Boyce's works are called symphonies, short as they are.
>
>This definition is from the Britannica website:
>
>"symphony, a lengthy form of musical composition for orchestra, normally
>consisting of several large sections, or movements, at least one of which
>usually employs sonata form (also called first-movement form)."
>
>Would anyone add any further qualifications to it?

Not really, but I would ask if the Britannica website has anything to
say about "sinfonia". By any chance, is that a form of chamber music?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<28504624-9087-4ae7-bc9e-3aa8b35cf262n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:03 UTC

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 12:09:04 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:57:13 -0800 (PST), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 12:06:47 PM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> <snippo>
> >When I was a student I picked up a number of good LP at charity sales.
> >A woman's scholarship fund in Waterloo would accept all such
> >donations for their biannual sale. Something similar may still
> >exist.
> Such a thing may exist (an organization known as The Friends of the
> Library may, at one time, have done this), but would they come and
> pick them up, doing all the lifting and hauling themselves? Seems
> unlikely.
> >> I ripped the CDs and used an alternative to the Windows digitization
> >> system to get some /good/ digitizations of the LPs I couldn't replace
> >> (and which are not in those boxes, but upstairs with the souvenirs and
> >> inherited LPs -- life can be /very/ complicated).
> >
> >This is a task I will probably never undertake. I do have LPs dating to the
> >1950s, some of which I would like to clean up and digitize.
> What I used was ASIO
> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output], using a
> U-Control UCA202
> [https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-U-CONTROL-UCA202-Ultra-Low-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=290GJG9L7KWLV&keywords=U-Control+UCA202&qid=1669135967&sprefix=u-control+uca202%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-1].
>
> This involved free software downloads: a driver, a patch panel, and an
> audio editor. Testing with the device and Kristal Audio Engine (the
> patch panel) caused me to select "Fast" as the speed, as this produce
> 58.67 samples/second -- at normal priority per Windows (upping it to
> the maximum had no effect).
>
> IIRC, I was able to get DVD-quality audio out of it, not just
> CD-quality. But I don't recall the details, and, unlike the sps cited
> above, appear to have lost the information. This may have depended on
> using Kristal.
>
> I found something else that is worth considering: when I replaced my
> XP computer with a Windows 8.1 HP Envy computer quality dropped. Some
> checking soon suggested that, since ASIO was not part of Windows,
> Windows could not see it, and so felt free to do massive operations
> (Anti-Virus scans, disk optimization, who can say what?) while I was
> digitizing. This caused packets to be dropped (so to speak, at least).
>
> I bought a 2TB external drive to use with the HP Envy, and testing
> showed both that Windows did /not/ do this to that drive, and that
> that drive was plenty fast enough (it is a USB 3 drive, BTW) to
> digitize audio with ASIO.
>
> You probably didn't want this much detail but, if you ever decide to
> get into digitization, you may find it useful.
>
> One final note: as, IIRC, one of the reviews notes, the device is in a
> plastic case. But this is not problem as long as you don't drop it on
> the floor and stomp on it. Some reviewers whine about the /weirdest/
> things!

Thanks, that will help when I finally get around to it.

William Hyde

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<rLx9pM.1xBH@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
Message-ID: <rLx9pM.1xBH@kithrup.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:15:22 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 21:15 UTC

In article <4564b74c-7649-4681-894e-211434e5f3cbn@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
>> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
>> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
>> poetry fads.
>>
>> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
>> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
>
>I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
>titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
>a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
>"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
>contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
>contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
>in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
>receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
>knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
>were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
>Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.

(Hal Heydt)
From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
frivolous operettas with Gilbert.

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<090bf5ac-7010-47a9-916f-b49dc2d68824n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 01:25 UTC

On Friday, 25 November 2022 at 21:27:40 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> >> poetry fads.
> >>
> >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> >
> >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> (Hal Heydt)
> From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> frivolous operettas with Gilbert.

I think some of that is in Wikipedia as well, although I thought
that Wikipedia avoids being judgemental. ;-)

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<tltkgr$1e3at$2@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 18:05:15 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Magewolf - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 18:05 UTC

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 17:25:17 -0800, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> On Friday, 25 November 2022 at 21:27:40 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
>> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
>> >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
>> >> (Hal Heydt)
>> >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
>> >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing poetry
>> >> fads.
>> >>
>> >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it is
>> >> customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
>> >
>> >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually titled
>> >by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with a forename.
>> >Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
>> >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
>> >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
>> >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
>> >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
>> >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist knights,
>> >such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
>> >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur Sullivan
>> >died in 1900, being in poor health.
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious musical
>> circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down and do
>> "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable) frivolous operettas
>> with Gilbert.
>
> I think some of that is in Wikipedia as well, although I thought that
> Wikipedia avoids being judgemental. ;-)

That is like saying fish avoid water.

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

<10e76769-618c-4423-a03f-ab8be03ec190n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 20:28 UTC

On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> >> poetry fads.
> >>
> >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> >
> >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> (Hal Heydt)
> From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> frivolous operettas with Gilbert.

He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)

But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.

Compare Parry and Elgar who were at the time very famous for
their oratorios on religious themes. That form is not terribly
popular now, so Elgar and Parry are known for their other
work, unfortunate for the latter who wrote little else.

(I attended the first recording of Parry's oratorio "Judith" over
100 years after the first recording of Elgar's "Enigma Variations"
and decades after that of Parry's "English Suite".)

(And for Hornblower fans, Parry's father was largely brought up by
his uncle, none other than "Dismal Jimmy" Gambier who makes
an appearance in, IIRC "Flying Colours".)

William Hyde

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 05:48 UTC

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:29:00 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> > >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> > >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> > >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> > >> (Hal Heydt)
> > >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> > >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> > >> poetry fads.
> > >>
> > >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> > >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> > >
> > >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> > >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> > >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> > >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> > >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> > >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> > >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> > >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> > >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> > >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> > >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> > (Hal Heydt)
> > From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> > musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> > and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> > frivolous operettas with Gilbert.
> He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
> ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
> oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
> music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)
>
> But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
> time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.
>
> Compare Parry and Elgar who were at the time very famous for
> their oratorios on religious themes. That form is not terribly
> popular now, so Elgar and Parry are known for their other
> work, unfortunate for the latter who wrote little else.
>
> (I attended the first recording of Parry's oratorio "Judith" over
> 100 years after the first recording of Elgar's "Enigma Variations"
> and decades after that of Parry's "English Suite".)
>
> (And for Hornblower fans, Parry's father was largely brought up by
> his uncle, none other than "Dismal Jimmy" Gambier who makes
> an appearance in, IIRC "Flying Colours".)

I've always enjoyed Elgar's "The Dream of Gerontious", after first
encountering it in the TV play "Penda's Fen".

Pt

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: mcdowell...@sky.com (Andrew McDowell)
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 by: Andrew McDowell - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 11:17 UTC

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:48:21 AM UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:29:00 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> > > >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > > >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> > > >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> > > >> (Hal Heydt)
> > > >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> > > >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> > > >> poetry fads.
> > > >>
> > > >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> > > >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> > > >
> > > >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> > > >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> > > >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> > > >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> > > >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> > > >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> > > >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> > > >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> > > >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> > > >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> > > >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> > > (Hal Heydt)
> > > From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> > > musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> > > and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> > > frivolous operettas with Gilbert.
> > He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
> > ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
> > oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
> > music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)
> >
> > But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
> > time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.
> >
> > Compare Parry and Elgar who were at the time very famous for
> > their oratorios on religious themes. That form is not terribly
> > popular now, so Elgar and Parry are known for their other
> > work, unfortunate for the latter who wrote little else.
> >
> > (I attended the first recording of Parry's oratorio "Judith" over
> > 100 years after the first recording of Elgar's "Enigma Variations"
> > and decades after that of Parry's "English Suite".)
> >
> > (And for Hornblower fans, Parry's father was largely brought up by
> > his uncle, none other than "Dismal Jimmy" Gambier who makes
> > an appearance in, IIRC "Flying Colours".)
> I've always enjoyed Elgar's "The Dream of Gerontious", after first
> encountering it in the TV play "Penda's Fen".
>
> Pt
You have to admire the Imperial vision - worthy of an SF Author - that caused Elgar to name a piece "March of the Mogul Emperors" - see sleeve notes in https://www.chandos.net/chanimages/Booklets/CH10570.pdf - this is part of a Masque, in which the Mogul Emperors appear while the city Delhi makes her case to become India's capital, so it's not quite a case of Emperors marching as part of an Imperial Triumph, but if you ever had a few Emperors handy and you wanted to stage a march, the music would come in pretty handy - it's stirring and bombastic.

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:26 UTC

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:48:21 AM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:29:00 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> > > >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> > > >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> > > >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> > > >> (Hal Heydt)
> > > >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> > > >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> > > >> poetry fads.
> > > >>
> > > >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> > > >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> > > >
> > > >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> > > >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> > > >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> > > >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> > > >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> > > >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> > > >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> > > >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> > > >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> > > >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> > > >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> > > (Hal Heydt)
> > > From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> > > musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> > > and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> > > frivolous operettas with Gilbert.
> > He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
> > ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
> > oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
> > music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)
> >
> > But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
> > time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.
> >
> > Compare Parry and Elgar who were at the time very famous for
> > their oratorios on religious themes. That form is not terribly
> > popular now, so Elgar and Parry are known for their other
> > work, unfortunate for the latter who wrote little else.
> >
> > (I attended the first recording of Parry's oratorio "Judith" over
> > 100 years after the first recording of Elgar's "Enigma Variations"
> > and decades after that of Parry's "English Suite".)
> >
> > (And for Hornblower fans, Parry's father was largely brought up by
> > his uncle, none other than "Dismal Jimmy" Gambier who makes
> > an appearance in, IIRC "Flying Colours".)
> I've always enjoyed Elgar's "The Dream of Gerontious", after first
> encountering it in the TV play "Penda's Fen".

Yes, Gerontius seems to have stood up much better than "The Kingdom" and
its associated work. A local semi-pro group has put on both, but
unfortunately I was in Texas for the former.

William Hyde

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
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Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 16:20:45 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Thu, 1 Dec 2022 16:20 UTC

In article <10e76769-618c-4423-a03f-ab8be03ec190n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
>> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
>> >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
>> >> (Hal Heydt)
>> >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
>> >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
>> >> poetry fads.
>> >>
>> >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
>> >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
>> >
>> >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
>> >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
>> >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
>> >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
>> >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
>> >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
>> >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
>> >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
>> >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
>> >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
>> >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
>> musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
>> and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
>> frivolous operettas with Gilbert.
>
>He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
>ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
>oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
>music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)

(Hal Heydt)
Probably his best known reiglious work (though not many people
recall that he wrote it) is the music for "Onward Christian
Soldiers."

>But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
>time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.

He was also "responsible" for finding--IIRC--the otherwise lost
scores to "Rosamunda". Which Dorothy frequently remarked would
have been better off to have stayed lost.

Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by E. E. "Doc" Smith

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Subject: Re: [tears] Galactic Patrol (Lensman, volume 3/Lensman, volume 2) by
E. E. "Doc" Smith
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 1 Dec 2022 20:25 UTC

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 11:37:46 AM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <10e76769-618c-4423...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 4:27:40 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <4564b74c-7649-4681...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, 19 November 2022 at 20:37:33 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >> In article <4rq4nhdbqja0230qg...@4ax.com>,
> >> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> >So "pure" that nobody can stand to listen to it, no doubt. Although
> >> >> >the elitists, of course, pretend to like it.
> >> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> >> William S. Gilbert had some words--with music by Sir Arthur
> >> >> Sullivan--about that phenomenon. Though he was criticizing
> >> >> poetry fads.
> >> >>
> >> >> Side note... I find it odd (even though I do it myself), that it
> >> >> is customary to note Sullivan's knighthood, but not Gilbert's.
> >> >
> >> >I think it's partly, maybe mostly, because Gilbert is usually
> >> >titled by initials, "W.S.", and not by forenames. "Sir" goes with
> >> >a forename. Also, it was much later. Wikipedia says:
> >> >"Gilbert was knighted on 15 July 1907 in recognition of his
> >> >contributions to drama. Sullivan had been knighted for his
> >> >contributions to music almost a quarter of a century earlier,
> >> >in 1883. Gilbert was, however, the first British writer ever to
> >> >receive a knighthood for his plays alone – earlier dramatist
> >> >knights, such as Sir William Davenant and Sir John Vanbrugh,
> >> >were knighted for political and other services." Sir Arthur
> >> >Sullivan died in 1900, being in poor health.
> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> From what I've read, apparently there was some hope in serious
> >> musical circles that, once knighted, Sullivan would settle down
> >> and do "serious" music instead of the (quite profitable)
> >> frivolous operettas with Gilbert.
> >
> >He wrote a great deal of "serious" music. One symphony,
> >ten other major orchestral works, one full length opera,
> >oratorios, a cello concerto, and a fair amount of church
> >music. (How much came after the knighthood I do not know.)
> (Hal Heydt)
> Probably his best known reiglious work (though not many people
> recall that he wrote it) is the music for "Onward Christian
> Soldiers."
> >But while some of his non G&S music was very popular at the
> >time, that style has faded while the operettas have not.
> He was also "responsible" for finding--IIRC--the otherwise lost
> scores to "Rosamunda". Which Dorothy frequently remarked would
> have been better off to have stayed lost.

Schubert did have a tendency to leave music lying around in drawers,
hence the unfinished symphony which he left at a friend's house.

I had no idea Sullivan was involved in finding Schubert's lost
music.

William Hyde

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